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dmcdonald
02-05-2005, 03:44 PM
My backorder for shank drills finally arrived from Busy Bee, but I am concerned about the quality of the shanks. As the picture shows, they are very poorly finished, and I am concerned that they will not seat properly in the taper of my tailstock and turn during use. I would guess that this shouldn't hurt the tailstock since it is hardened, but it is never a good thing to have a tapered tool turn in the tailstock. Should I try to clean up the shanks or just send them back?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/powerchute50/Crappydrills.jpg

ERBenoit
02-05-2005, 03:59 PM
Two of them look like they were cast in a sand mold! If you are not satisfied (which it seems, I would not be either), with what you were supplied, send them back. Ask for product replacement or refund. Ask them why the would sell/ship such crap. What QC do they have? You bought a NEW set of drills. Why should you have to work on them to get something that satisfies you? I would not accept drills with shanks that looked like that.

pgmrdan
02-05-2005, 04:10 PM
SEND THEM BACK!!!

egpace
02-05-2005, 04:16 PM
The shanks may look bad, but may seat just fine. Try and rotate the drill shanks in a Morse adapter looking for high spots. If the surface is pretty much even in appearance you're probably ok. If you find small raised knicks, stone them off. Then try taking heavy drill cut, she may just rotate slightly then "ring-in" snug. This shouldn't damage your tailstock taper.

There's a hardness pecking order with tool & toolholder interfaces. For instance, the jaws of a drill chuck are harder than the shank of a straight drill (But not endmills!). Collets are softer than the spindles they go into. The taper of taper shank tooling is, by design is supposed to be softer than the taper socket it fits in. The idea being when the inevitable chip or other foriegn matter gets lodged between the taper & socket, the less expensive tooling, collet, or shank takes the hit (Rigidity issues make endmills an exception). Consider this, what would you rather replace, a Bridgeport spindle or a R-8 collet?
Good luck
Ed

zl1byz
02-05-2005, 04:20 PM
Yep. SEND THEM BACK!

I would apeal to anyone that gets tools of that quality to send them back so that the supplier and manufacturer gets the idea there is no market for that sort of crap.

John.

Elninio
02-05-2005, 04:36 PM
Maybe someone used them, scrached them, painted them and sent them back, and ended up to you? I dont see why you shouldnt get a refund or exchange

precisionworks
02-05-2005, 04:44 PM
Tried to use a taper like yours in the tailstock...drill turned, never seated. Left a nasty gouge in the tailstock seat. Had to ream by hand, finishing reamer cost $35, took over an hour of ream/clean/inspect/repeat. Got 90% of the surface cleaned up...YOU really don't want to go through that, do you???


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Barry Milton

JCHannum
02-05-2005, 04:52 PM
No question, send them back. If consimers continue to accept poor quality, the manufacturers will only make worse quality.

A note on using tapershank drills in the tailstock (or larger drills in a chuck with a taper adaptor); it is a good idea to clamp the drill shank in a lathe dog that rests on the compound to prevent the drill from turning. A larger drill will slip and damage the tailstock bore unless it is restrained.

zl1byz
02-05-2005, 05:04 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elninio:
Maybe someone used them, scrached them, painted them and sent them back, and ended up to you? I dont see why you shouldnt get a refund or exchange</font>

Oh come on! They are just crap. The manufacturer couldn't get the finish right what chance the material they are made of is any good. Probably made in the sand on the beach some where near where the boat was run a ground and cut up for the materials they are made of.

I have worked for people who would buy drills like these. You either spend half the day regrinding them or they shatter as soon as you try to do some work with them.

If the job doesn't warrent anything better than these, your better off doing it with a gas axe.

Rant Rant grumble grumble. Sorry guys, coulnd't help myself. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John.

precisionworks
02-05-2005, 05:38 PM
John-

Gas Axe???

Always thought that was an Acetylene Wrench!

zl1byz
02-05-2005, 05:45 PM
Blue flame spanner! If you want to sound a bit up market. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Or in this case "Blue flame drill" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John.

[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 02-05-2005).]

dmcdonald
02-05-2005, 06:27 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JCHannum:
No question, send them back. If consimers continue to accept poor quality, the manufacturers will only make worse quality.

A note on using tapershank drills in the tailstock (or larger drills in a chuck with a taper adaptor); it is a good idea to clamp the drill shank in a lathe dog that rests on the compound to prevent the drill from turning. A larger drill will slip and damage the tailstock bore unless it is restrained. </font>

Great idea about the lathe dog. My tailstock does not have a flat to receive the tang on the back of the drill shank. So it can turn. The lathe dog would help there.

Don

Forrest Addy
02-05-2005, 08:04 PM
Blue the drill shanks to your tailstock. If they blue well (90%) they'll hold. What remains to be determined is if the shanks are duds how aabout the quality of the business end of the drill.

Buy, Morse, Union, or Butterfield taper shank drills. Not really that much more expensive in the long run unless holding a low first cost is a burning issue.

J Tiers
02-05-2005, 11:24 PM
I agree, send them back as defective....then get some decent ones....

Too true about crappy product getting worse. Sure, you might be able to get them to "work". But haven't you ever heard "Ive sold lots of these and you are the first one to complain" ? And where does that come from?

I dunno how it works where you are, but I have picked up a lot of them at garage and estate sales....for less than you paid, usually Morse, etc..

cliff69
02-05-2005, 11:37 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
SEND THEM BACK!!!</font>

mochinist
02-06-2005, 12:06 AM
If my mother in law had a lathe I might use them there, but otherwise send them back.

darryl
02-06-2005, 01:28 AM
After reading all theae posts, I went and looked at the picture. That's gotta be the roughest looking finish I've seen on anything yet. You should get double your money back just for being exposed to such a thing.

Paul Alciatore
02-06-2005, 02:17 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mochinist:
If my mother in law had a lathe I might use them there, but otherwise send them back.</font>

NO, I wouldn't wish those on even my mother in law.

SEND THEM BACK!

Paul A.

Elninio
02-06-2005, 08:02 PM
hey zl1byz

that means some of them are made of bad material but look like they arent because of a good finish? that would make some people suspicious of what their buying next time...

zl1byz
02-06-2005, 09:41 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elninio:
hey zl1byz

that means some of them are made of bad material but look like they arent because of a good finish? that would make some people suspicious of what their buying next time...</font>

Yea you can screw it around all you like, rather your head than mine. But that is NOT what I said. I said if the manufacturer couldn't get the finish right what are the chances of geting the rest of the job right.

As far as YOUR statement above. Have you never heard "caveat emptor" you have a lot to learn about buying stuff.

Go get a job, earn some money then spend it. You will learn a lot more that way, rather than being a smart arse around here.

John.


[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 02-06-2005).]

zl1byz
02-06-2005, 09:43 PM
Grrrrrr.

[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 02-06-2005).]

HTRN
02-06-2005, 09:58 PM
SEND THEM BACK!
SEND THEM BACK!
SEND THEM BACK!

And I would demand an explanation as to why they saw fit to send you scrap instead of tooling!


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

ben78
02-06-2005, 10:42 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:


And I would demand an explanation as to why they saw fit to send you scrap instead of tooling!
</font>

They saw fit to send it out because its cheap chinese crap, and dmcdonald ordered cheap chinese crap.

Should the cheap chinese crap have even left China? No, probably not - but you get what you pay for and primarily our collective societies want the cheapest possible 'fix' for a problem they can get.

If cost is the issue, just buy one quality bit at a time, sure it will cost a lot more as a set later in the years, but I still have tools I NEVER use purely because they are off sizes - I have a full set of imperial sockets worth around $100usd that have never been used, I drive a Japanese car and live in a metric society.. oops, sorry OT now...


Send them back and use the refund money to buy a quality bit and a beer http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

HTRN
02-07-2005, 12:19 AM
I guess I'm just lucky, one of my friends is a machinery dealer and I get "friends and family" discount. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I just gotten used to getting odds and ends for nothing or next to it...


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

Thrud
02-07-2005, 04:55 AM
Don
Don;t put up with garbage like those drills - demand proper replacements or your money abd freight fully refunded.

There is no excuse for poor quality like that.

Ian B
02-07-2005, 06:45 AM
What's all this talk about sending them back?

It looks like they sent you drills with the new high precision self-compensating taper shanks by mistake. That "poor finish" is actually a series of pits that are specially machined in to accommodate burrs and swarf chips inside your tailstock taper such that the drill remains on centre no matter what. Gone are the annoying days of bothering with a clean taper socket.

This feature is normally activated by a few sharp smacks with a steel hammer on the drill point, or by whizzing the tailstock down the bed until the drill 'contacts' the workpiece.

You're lucky they didn't charge you extra for this feature - pity they weren't all like that!

Ian

nheng
02-07-2005, 08:46 AM
Those look like they were made with the same tooling as a kids $0.50 cap pistol ... and probably the same alloy http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I'm about to chuck the crappy import set, previous thought to be "OK", from MSC. Not one of them turns an equal curl off both flutes or cuts straight. AND, the flutes are rough enough to prevent chip ejection. In short, the kids now have a nice NEW drill set http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif Den

dmcdonald
02-07-2005, 09:21 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ben78:
They saw fit to send it out because its cheap chinese crap, and dmcdonald ordered cheap chinese crap. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>

Okay, guilty, I did it, me, the guy in the back. But the frustration centres on living in the country. Our small town does not have much to offer in terms of lathe tooling, like, none. Acklands, Home Hardware, a few building stores. They look at you like you are crazy if you ask for anything other than paint and nails.

So I am stuck with mail order. I pour through the paper catalogs and web sites looking for what I need at a price I can afford. As a result I never get a chance to see what I am buying before I buy.

I would love a 1 inch oil cooled shank drill for $425.00 but I am not a production machinist, and I can't afford that level of tooling. So I buy cheap and make do. Its that or don't do machining. And I choose to do machining.

I have sent the picture of the drills off to the supplier. I will post any answer that I get.

Don

nheng
02-07-2005, 09:31 AM
Can you bring MSC, Travers, McMaster or others into Canada reasonably ??

It almost sounds like Ebay and time might be your best friends as an HSM. Den

zl1byz
02-07-2005, 01:28 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dmcdonald:
Okay, guilty, I did it, me, the guy in the back. But the frustration centres on living in the country. Our small town does not have much to offer in terms of lathe tooling, like, none. Acklands, Home Hardware, a few building stores. They look at you like you are crazy if you ask for anything other than paint and nails.

So I am stuck with mail order. I pour through the paper catalogs and web sites looking for what I need at a price I can afford. As a result I never get a chance to see what I am buying before I buy.

I would love a 1 inch oil cooled shank drill for $425.00 but I am not a production machinist, and I can't afford that level of tooling. So I buy cheap and make do. Its that or don't do machining. And I choose to do machining.

I have sent the picture of the drills off to the supplier. I will post any answer that I get.

Don</font>

Hi Don. I here what you are saying, Wow were did that price come from? You sure some one hasn't got the decimal point in the wrong place? Like move it to the left one place. There has to be some middle ground some were. Good luck.

John.

C. Tate
02-07-2005, 02:43 PM
The shank on the drill should be harder than the tailstock. If it is harder than those drill most certianly can scar your quill taper. I would not think of using them on my machine or anyone elses. This is a good example of you get waht you pay for. I would suggest one good drill small emough that you can bore to the size you need. You could also buy a large drill chuck and get the reduced shank drills of questionable quality and you will not have the risk of marking your quill. I would reccomend an anchor for the chuck to keep it from rotating in the quill. Third option is to make drill holder that mounts to cross slide and use carriage to feed drills. You can buy a straight shank morse taper sleeve and hold it in a block on the cross slide.

CT

ben78
02-08-2005, 07:53 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dmcdonald:
Okay, guilty, I did it, me, the guy in the back. But the frustration centres on living in the country. Our small town does not have much to offer in terms of lathe tooling, like, none. Acklands, Home Hardware, a few building stores. They look at you like you are crazy if you ask for anything other than paint and nails.
</font>


I hear ya!!! I am in exactly the same situation except we have a store that sells the crap you bought and believes it to be top shelf production quality. We also have a store that sells the top quality drills at prices that are just so insane that you wouldn't even think about it.

Moral of the story - buy stuff, ensure you get a solid return policy and if its crap, use that policy. At worst postage is all you'll pay for the experience.

Oh yeah, when you ring the store ask if any of them have any machining experience (I just ask the person who answers the phone what the best lube for alloy is, they usually will get someone who has a clue on the phone) then just ask them, "would you use this tool yourself" This will usually tell them that you are serious about buying something that does the job and will - hopefuly - be able to offer some decent advice, or maybe an unlisted product.

hoffman
02-08-2005, 09:05 PM
Check ebay out. It's a crapshoot but I got a set of 10 MT2 drills that are excellent old US steel. If they have a patina on 'em there's a good chance they're gool old industrial quality stuff. I paid around $20 with shipping...

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Hoffman in Warner Robins Ga