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View Full Version : Advice needed: 3ph Colochester / 1ph supply



speedy
02-09-2005, 09:47 PM
I have recently taken delivery of my Colchester Student. I have run it up with a 1ph substitute motor to check it out and it seems OK.
The age old question is should I find a large enough 1ph motor or opt for a RPC or VFD?
What advice or recommendation can anyone offer and if I opt for a VFD, what are reliable units.
Our 1ph supply is 240v and the motor on this lathe is a AEI 220-250v / 380-440v 1380 rpm 3ph.
If there is anyone local who can be of assistance that would be great.
I have a couple of other machines that I would prefer to run on 3ph also.

cheers, Ken

here's a couple of shots
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/Colchester1200DVC00291.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/Colchester1200DVC00295.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/Colchester1200DVC00289.jpg




[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 02-10-2005).]

cuemaker
02-09-2005, 10:02 PM
I recently got my Clausing Colchester MKII and I went the RPC way with an idler motor.

I picked up a 7hp motor and a old RPC box for $50 (got lucky) and got even luckier when someone gave me a brand new phase-a-matic phase converter.

But if I hadnt been so lucky I would have built a RPC since it would have been the cheapest way to go.

I decided my path based on cost. If I had more money I would have gone VFD, but they are expensive in my oppinion.

You dont list your location or the HP of your motor in your lath

cuemaker
02-09-2005, 10:02 PM
I recently got my Clausing Colchester MKII and I went the RPC way with an idler motor.

I picked up a 7hp motor and a old RPC box for $50 (got lucky) and got even luckier when someone gave me a brand new phase-a-matic phase converter.

But if I hadnt been so lucky I would have built a RPC since it would have been the cheapest way to go.

I decided my path based on cost. If I had more money I would have gone VFD, but they are expensive in my oppinion.

You dont list your location or the HP of your motor in your lathe

cuemaker
02-09-2005, 10:04 PM
oh, and your lathe looks alot like mine!

Nice purchase!

zl1byz
02-10-2005, 01:24 AM
Hi Ken, nice purchase. Did you send off the chinese lathe you had? I'm afraid I'm no help with the power question, but IMHO I would try to stick with the 3ph motor and investigate some method of producing 3 ph for it. I would go and see the guys at South Auckland Amature Winders. I see they are now in Firth St Drury.

John.

matador
02-10-2005, 01:31 AM
hi ya,ken.nice lathe.if you want to stay with 1ph,you're practically limited to about 2hp.i haven't seen any bigger 1ph motors here.if you can go 3ph,you'll find it will run a lot smoother.but from what i've seen,the vfd's and rotary converters are all big $ items in nz.
my lathe has a 2hp 1ph,and i can just stall it with a heavy parting cut,so 3hp would probably be about the best for your collie,assuming 3ph power.talking of power,i'm amazed how little difference my machines make on our power bill.i had the mill(2hp 1ph)running virtually non-stop for the last month,and it seems to have made hardly any difference.our toys must be super-efficient power users,5stars at least! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.see ya

------------------
Hans

speedy
02-10-2005, 03:14 AM
Cuemaker, I have looked at your lathe and you did well, especially with the extras.
Hi to John and Hans, how are you handling this heat? it's killing me! but I'm carrying too much excess which doesn't help http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Now I will answer your questions.
The lathe has a 3ph 3hp motor. I may be able to buy a VFD at a good price but what that might be I don't know yet. I have a rep coming in the next couple of days to give a demo and maybe a trial period ( that would be nice, aye )
Yes, I will go visit them John, they are very helpful. I bought a start cap off them a while ago for my MV 1.5hp 1ph motor that powers the Lantaine. No I haven't sold the lathe yet although it will be up for sale when the Colchester is sorted. A mate of mine was going fizzy about it the other day but he already has two lathes http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.
Hans, I have a couple of MV 1.5 1ph motors ( S.A.A.W tell me that they are nearer 2hp as the older motors hp are understated ) Also I have a 1.8 kw ( 2.4 hp ) 1ph that I could use but I would prefer a 3ph set up. So I have a couple of options -- fingers crossed.
I had some good fortune, a scrappie mate of mine gave me some lathe bits which consisted of a leadscrew, a fixed and travelling steady, a dead centre and adapter for the spindle and odds and sods. You can see the fixed steady in the image, it fits like a glove ( 6.5" centre height )so I'm thinking that it must be off a Chinese knock-off.I'm wondering if it is off a lathe similar to yours Hans, I'll post a shots later this weekend on this thread or direct if your'e interested.
The reason that your power is so cheap Hans is because it's made down there -- you lucky Mainlanders! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gifWe pay an absolute fortune for power here, keep those hydros full will you? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif. Any more advice is welcome;

cheers, Ken


[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 02-10-2005).]

Roverian
02-10-2005, 03:57 AM
Chevpac Machinery Panmure Auckland (www.chevpac.co.nz)sells up to 5HP single phase motors. Built to China's finest construction standards of course.

Cost, however, is another thing....

Allan Waterfall
02-10-2005, 04:30 AM
Speedy......

Did you buy that so you could make the bits to repair that Myford... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Seriously,I've got 3 phase and a VFD on my Myford and mill,there is no way I would go back to single phase on a machine tool.

Soft start,easy reverse and a real boon parting off and facing,you can just increase the speed as you get nearer the centre by just turning the pot on the VFD.

Allan

speedy
02-10-2005, 04:48 AM
Thanks Rover, I'm a big fan of Chinese made ( food, that is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif )
Myford?.....Oh yes I had almost forgotten until you reminded me ( once again )...Allan I'm a sensitive, caring soul and your constant digs at my inactivety is begining to take its' toll; I'm at the end of my tether and I don't think that I can take anymore, I think I will jump from a great height http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

cheers, Ken

Allan Waterfall
02-10-2005, 04:52 AM
Wot you mean,constant digs,I've not mentioned it since last year,probably next due about Easter.. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Allan

speedy
02-10-2005, 04:57 AM
See, there you go again!......I'm gonna jump NOW! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif take care Allan

cheers , Ken

zl1byz
02-11-2005, 01:41 PM
Hey Ken!!

Stanko
02-11-2005, 03:16 PM
Hi Ken,
So it made the trip ok then.
I am buying some drives for work that are single to 3 phase If you get the details off the motor (current etc) I can get you a price. The place is called Drive Dynamics and is located next door to where I work.
I see there is a Student on trade Me last night maybe you should get it for a spare !

speedy
02-11-2005, 05:01 PM
I'm back, no real harm done.....besides I can't jump very high anyway http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.

Hi Mike, how are you handling the heat down there?? it's killing me at times up here. Maybe a case for instituting compulsery Summer siestas?
Thanks for the offer, if you can get a price and some specs that would be good.

The motor plate says:
AEI - Kapak induction motor #FB 2304.9003 - 3hp 3ph - size 0.90L - 8.75 amps -220/250-380/440 volts - star/delta connection - 1380 rpm.

I had a look at the lathe, spares would be good but I have to refrain as space is at a premium at present.
Some spare train gears and tool holders would be nice though http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif I must keep my eyes open for some.

cheers, Ken


[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 02-11-2005).]

zl1byz
02-11-2005, 06:17 PM
Ah, so you didn't jump very high. Hehe. Is the toolpost on your student a genuine Dickson? If it is finding tool holders is like rocking horse s**t. There must be zillions of them around, but I don't know what happens to them. If you are interested there is a Colchester lathe user group up on Yahoo. It's a bit slow, they don't share a lot of what they have been doing etc. The most common topic would be converting single phase power to run them and a close second would be oil. It is amazing how much discussion this can produce. The wheel keeps on getting invented all the time, hehe.

John.

speedy
02-11-2005, 07:14 PM
I suppose it is a Dickson. I saw quite a few at an auction some months back but I had no use for the large ones at the time.
( Maybe a good project when the shaper is up and running )
I have a smaller QCTP off a Bantam with 3 holders that may end up as a rear toolpost for the Student
I'm on the yahoo site and it isn't as immediate as HSM and probably not as well resourced but useful and interesting all the same.
I'm working on a new design for the wheel at present, I think I may call it the self braking large radiused Octogon. I have yet to do market research though http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

cheers, Ken

zl1byz
02-11-2005, 09:53 PM
Hi again Ken, you sure get around a lot more than I do. When I got my Triumph it had one holder, a Dickson of course. They are original equip on colchesters, although not nessasarily standard equip. They are a good post. You can still get new ones and holders for them but they cost an arm & leg. I changed over to a Italian Rapidue type which look exactly the same, but not interchangeable. I thought some day I may make a mount to fit the Dickson on the back of the cross slide, I have used this arangement b4 and it is very handy. Only having one holder for it would not be a problem. Yes making some holders would be a good project. The only challenge I can see is getting the double vee's exactly the right distance, the rest is pretty basic. Now that I have changed over I can get more holders at resonable cost and the genuine holders are hardened & ground, very ridged and repeatedly accurate. I saw some nice little Colchester Bantums the other day & I saw a very nice Triumph. Made mine look shabby. Ar well mine may have a few dings & chips on it but it all works ok. Well I hope you get your Coley going on 3ph, then it will work like it should.

John.

speedy
02-11-2005, 11:30 PM
Hey John, I might get around a lot more but I bet you move faster than I do http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Yeah, those holders went for maybe $20 a unit from memory ( not reliable though ).
Were the Bantums at Chevpac? They have/had some very clean units from Singapore. I believe, some with taper turning.

"Italian Rapidue A holders do fit although all dimesions are not identical. $145+GST each spare holder & we have them ex-stock."

This is the info I was given by a certain machinery dealer.....suitably ambiguous perhaps??

cheers, Ken



[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 02-11-2005).]

matador
02-12-2005, 01:27 AM
hi,ken.
that new wheel of yours better have some nice thick foam on the seat(if supplied) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.i'd appreciate a pic of your steady,i only have the travelling steady for mine.although to be honest,i haven't missed it yet http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.A qctp is on mty "to do"list,i 'm thinking it's best to get a long piece of,say,100x40 flat,put in the dovetail,and then slice it like a loaf of bread.That dovetail cutter is an expensive beast though http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif.still,i've seen the italian toolpost,it's nice,but a bit rich for my blood.)besides,doing it yourself is much more satisfying!nice and cool today,only22.last wednesday,the thermometer in my w/shop said 36 degrees!with the fan on!cheers.

------------------
Hans

zl1byz
02-12-2005, 02:02 AM
Ha Ken, $20 each Oh well got to be in the right place at the right time I guess if they were the right ones.
Yea that is where the Bantum's were. Didn't take a lot of notice but they looked quite saleable machines. They would be a nice price too I guess but since I was only being nosey I didn't ask.
Hmm the A size may fit the smaller posts I wouldn't know, but there wasn't a size to swap over to the size I had. Much bigger of course. Yea they are expencive compared to what the guys talk about over in the USA for the dovetail ones.
Hey Ken if you see a good large shaper around any where let me know. Doesn't matter if it weighs a ton and is 3ph. Only ever used one once when doing my apprenticeship. Wouldn't mind one to do slotting. Should be able to pick up a big old shaper for less than a slotting head.

John.

speedy
02-12-2005, 02:37 AM
Hi ya Hans, I will get some good shots and measurements of the fixed steady for you in the next few days. I will see what else is there also and email you.

John, I know of a large Elliot Invicta 4M going for scrap value. There is no vise and it really is too big for my workshop, even though I would lover to have it here. I will email my ph # , give me a call.

cheers, Ken

Stanko
02-12-2005, 04:27 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matador:
hi,ken.
that new wheel of yours better have some nice thick foam on the seat(if supplied) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.i'd appreciate a pic of your steady,i only have the travelling steady for mine.although to be honest,i haven't missed it yet http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.A qctp is on mty "to do"list,i 'm thinking it's best to get a long piece of,say,100x40 flat,put in the dovetail,and then slice it like a loaf of bread.That dovetail cutter is an expensive beast though http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif.still,i've seen the italian toolpost,it's nice,but a bit rich for my blood.)besides,doing it yourself is much more satisfying!nice and cool today,only22.last wednesday,the thermometer in my w/shop said 36 degrees!with the fan on!cheers.

</font>

Hi Hans
I have a dovetail cutter if you want to borrow it, then there is no excuse for not designing me a QCTP.
Mike

Stanko
02-12-2005, 04:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by zl1byz:
Hey Ken if you see a good large shaper around any where let me know. Doesn't matter if it weighs a ton and is 3ph. Only ever used one once when doing my apprenticeship. Wouldn't mind one to do slotting. Should be able to pick up a big old shaper for less than a slotting head.

John.</font>

John here is one over in the BOP with a vice you could always ask for a relist.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-industry/Industrial/Metalwork-machining/auction-21658628.htm