View Full Version : Motorcycles
02-17-2005, 06:24 PM
to all you scooter bums, I'm looking for info espcially first hand knowledge of the various "Kit Bike" deals out there, A friend of mine wants me to build a scooter, and she's looking for maybe a kit. I'd like to know how well these are equipted and what the quailty of the parts are. Also I'm interested in the "Ultima" engines and would like to know the skinny on them. They look pretty decent, but I've never really heard anything about them. I've used S&S for a long time and never have been disapointed. I appreciate any input, Thanks, Smitty
02-17-2005, 06:44 PM
This is the only scooter that I'm aware of ....not quite a bike in my opinion.
well you asked for it ... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
ALL THE BEST.MARK
02-17-2005, 07:44 PM
BN, just called my independent local dealer & picked his brain. On the motor, the S&S, RevTech, etc, are all based on evo castings, and "should all hold up as well as any evo".
The "kits" aren't sitting on a shelf, waiting to be shipped. When you order a kit, the parts are picked from the warehouse shelf. He heard of buyers who got everything but (insert your choice of parts). Which means you could wait six or eight weeks for the missing parts - make sure the kit is 100% complete before shipping. Also, the kits come with frame x, wheels y, and tank z, and you can't substitute something else you might like better. And no matter what, you'll still have to machine axle spacers, buy/build hardware, etc. And you'll need a large impact with socket to fit the compensator nut on the output shaft, a cam bearing puller, and a lot of beer.
One other thing, check with your insurance company and your state DMV. Not all insurance companies will insure special construction bikes. And your DMV may require additional paperwork from your kit supplier to issue title & reg.
[This message has been edited by precisionworks (edited 02-17-2005).]
02-17-2005, 07:56 PM
Ultima started out building on the S&S cases. They use a large amount of S&S internals still. They have a build list from Midwest Cycle on all the internal parts and thier origin.
They are using a special STD case now based on the EV2 (no geared breather) S&S heads still were on the last motor I saw. Fit and finish was great on the last one we got.
Check with Harry at Krooners for a price. S&S sells 113 shorty motors that will fit about any frame, or the regular 113 which is taller than shovel,pan or knuck frame but will fit into most evo frames. The shorty motor is higher priced.
Making it all "work" together is a art. Long motor shafts to match offset transmissions, that match wider rear tires. Or, offset motor and transmission mounts on the frame.
I'd be interested in knowing the return rate on "dead engines" from the various makers. I did like the finish and quality of the Revtech engine, then found out where they came from and talked to several buyers with broken ones.
I lusted after the Supercycle? Chevy internal engine made in California too, then found out about reality with it. I love small block chevys. I have a very old poster on my gangbox lid from them. Nostalgia Cycle? I saw thier website somewhere. They have a 13k kit bike.
With anything, you whip it, it'll break. Nobody knowes how hard something was whipped except the yokel turning the grip. You can break anything if you try hard enough.
02-17-2005, 08:54 PM
I had big hopes for the "Super Vee" too, (I think that's what they called it) being a lifetime Chevy fan. From all I've read abut it, seems like they were more interested in profits than building a quailty product.
02-17-2005, 09:12 PM
I think the superVee died because of the terminal vibration problems. I have heard horror stories of cracked frames, motor mounts that could not stay hitched. Sounded like crap too. A low compression thu thu thu instead of po-ta-toe po-ta-toe harley sound.
I sat one day drawing up a Volkswagon dual port head/barrel running in a block on the same V-angle as a twin. Now that'd be a cooker. Cheap, fast enough and have the "look" people want.
02-17-2005, 09:30 PM
Email me, I am a dealer on most things V-Twin.
[This message has been edited by Amity (edited 02-17-2005).]
I've only heard bad things about the SuperVee engines. Neat idea though. Having said that, I have had first hand experience dealing with Nostalgia Cycle, and to put it as nicely as I can, they suck. They were always rude and screwed up just about every order I ever placed with them. The last order I placed with them (about 1990), they screwed up big time, but this time it was in my favor- I got a whole bunch of parts I didn't order and which didn't appear on the invoice. I figured that was as a good a time as any to be done with them.
02-17-2005, 11:58 PM
(My favorite) SHop around, it does matter who you give your money to. You can call me after ya have and I'll check the "going rate" for old grey-bearded biker discounts.
I love motorcycles stripped down to just the essentials, Enough power, Enough looks to be different just to make the lawyers look at thier "storebought" and look back at you. Just taking a factory paint job and squirting some HOK ice pearl over the paint, looks fine and original, get it next to the "original" and it looks just a tad better for some reason.
I'm kinda grey, getting more senile each day. WHo cares as long as I am enjoying life.
I'll never forget the kid who pulled up next to my all black non-descript panhead, looked at it and asked if it was a harley. (he was on a retro softail) I said, yeah, it is the one yours was trying to look like and rode off.
Have fun, take pictures as you assemble. Get a factory manual on the model you purchase. Drink a beer, enjoy life.
I keep telling my buddy I can put together one every two weeks to a month and make enough (2-3k). He wants to make 10k on each one. We still have the Purple Marblized evo. It's been painted/touched up three times now. It should've been sold. Them fancy paint jobs can't be touched up. when ya scratch them you repaint. It has a longer rear fender.
All in All, the ultima kit has lots of billet, lots of stainless covered cables, lots of neat stuff. BUT, if you poor-ass-countryboy-assemble-in-a-hurry the billet and scratch it it looks like crap. You gotta take your time. All the pretty is on the outside of a bike, not under the hood.
Wrap the new fender struts in newspaper, "FOLD the rear fender struts up to fender and assemble. Work the paint out of the petcock threads before trying to install it on the frame. Basically take your time, assemble it without paint to make sure it all works together. (it all don't work the first time) Check the motor for rock and shim to the frame, or file.. your choice, Lay a piece of cut glass on the belt pulleys and check them for alignment, Shim the tranny to match the motor. Lots of rubbing in the paint. I love House of Kolor products.
Hell I guess you jus gotta enjoy doing it. Have fun. If ya need me, my email addy is posted.
As Depressed as I have been lately I'd love to help someone else out.
02-18-2005, 01:14 AM
Now here is my idea of a V engined bike, and it came as a kitset (the last owner made it into a kitset)
nothing like the smell of 2 stroke in the morning !
02-18-2005, 09:56 AM
Stanko, BTW this is a HARLEY FORUM!!! Just no way to ever get that unbalanced, erratic, lumpy-thumpy idle from an engine with a 70mm stroke & 15k redline.
IB, you summed it up pretty well. I got into bike metalworking because a neighbor was knocking out one or two bikes/month. He is a superb wrench, just didn't have the time/interest/ability to do the stuff that sets your ride apart from others. Take a look at this site, it shows Randy Torgeson who built my 113 S&S, and paint from EdHead Graphics:
Bikenut, be sure to run a tap through EVERY hole in the frame, inner primary, tranny, everything. You'll drag a ton of crud outa those holes & save a broken tap removal in the process. Inner primaries just never seal as well when they're full of helicoils.
02-18-2005, 10:59 AM
Man, as a HD rider I can say "I love that 2 stroke" I have a tripple in the garage awaiting project status this summer. What is that BTW?
02-18-2005, 11:24 AM
Personally as a big man, I preferred as a two stroke the Lambretta. Can't you just imagine me riding down the road on that thing wearing my Kevlar padded racing leathers?
I rode around on a 450 honda (still at the shop) for about a month. I could grab that thing by the handlebars lift the front wheel and turn it around in the driveway. Kinda like riding a bicycle.
Right now? I can't afford a new one for me, I make do with the old one. Maybe next year I'll be over being sick. I have gotten the "bug" enough to buy a few parts and look at automating the indexer again to finish the wheel. I came up with a way to anodize/engrave the wheel I took off.
Foghollow posts prices. A starting dicker point.. Search under kits www.foghollow.com (http://www.foghollow.com)
[URL=http://www.foghollow.com/cgi-bin/catalog_new.pl?fid=1063305780&query=Category%3DBike%2BKits%26Description%3D%26Pa rtNo%3D%26pagenum%3D1%26cgifunction%3DSearch%26sub mit%3DSearch &cgif[/url]
[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 02-18-2005).]
02-18-2005, 01:17 PM
This guy also sells kits.
02-18-2005, 05:40 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Amity:
Man, as a HD rider I can say "I love that 2 stroke" I have a tripple in the garage awaiting project status this summer. What is that BTW?</font>
Its a Yamaha RZ500, wasn't available in the US but Canada got them as well as Europe, UK Australia and New Zealand. On a hot day your bum roasts slowly because of the underseat pipes.
02-18-2005, 07:40 PM
I rode a Yz750? around for a while, it was not supposed to be street legal. All I remember was I thought I was going to wear a hole in the top of my boot shifting gears. It'd wheelie at highway speeds, nowadays that is normal for a cafe style bike.
I liked the RD350, it was a fun, fast, light hard to start but okay motorcycle. It'd do wheelies at 45mph by downshifting. I have looked for one to buy similar like for years.
02-18-2005, 10:03 PM
Paul, Exile does everything really well. Their aluminum oil bags are killer. Ditto for their billet upper motor mount. And nobody else uses a 5" wide rim on the FRONT wheel!
02-19-2005, 12:29 PM
I've never owned one of the kits but always look at them at the shows. Beyond the big shiny surfaces is what I look for. The hardware is almost always not what I would want on my bikes. Plating should be inspected closely for flaws that will later bubble/oxydize out. I almost refuse to buy anything that's chromed as it's rare that the proper care was put into a part to last longer than two seasons before it shows the haste in prepping it. I can't speak for the engineering that goes into any of the kits, I'd probably want to build the engine myself to make sure no corners were cut or use a shop that I'd trust to do it properly as there's too many times that I've contracted goods/services that I wind up repairing myself. Maybe I twiddle too much with my machinery so if it's just an assemble and ride you're looking for then go to a cycle show somewhere and throw a leg over a few. As a thought, buy everything in the raw state so you can see the construction integrity, correct flaws without ruining paint, and immediately hand over the frame to a coater. You'll have had time to inspect the motor/tranny/wheels and line up any additional fasteners. The frame comes back and you begin running gear. When that's finished would be about the time the sheetmetal comes back from the painter. No parts on hand cluttering up the shop that you aren't ready for and you get everyting just the way you want it. I've got a shocks/forks rebuild to do today so I'll close now.
[This message has been edited by roninB4 (edited 02-19-2005).]
02-19-2005, 06:46 PM
What I like most about Exile is no cables or wires showing, and his twist grip clutch. Makes for a real clean look.
[This message has been edited by Paul Gauthier (edited 02-19-2005).]
3 Phase Lightbulb
02-20-2005, 12:42 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
It'd wheelie at highway speeds, nowadays that is normal for a cafe style bike.
I have to try NOT to wheelie when I'm riding my bike... It's very hard not to.
02-20-2005, 01:35 PM
That 190 Cu In HD motor gave me a boner!
wonder if I could fit that on Mark's White scooter.. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 02-20-2005).]
02-20-2005, 01:38 PM
Thrud, Imagine a MORGAN copy.. whoo hoo.. The sound, the attention from the bikini wearing crowd.. whoo hooo...
We have this crashed jap bike at the shop, I have thought about a Shrike like toy three wheeler.