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Evan
02-21-2005, 03:21 PM
I ran across something I didn't know about today. This is from a MSDS for aluminum foil.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">For wetted coil of foil
In coils of aluminum foil severely immersed in water, a vigorous oxidation reaction occurs, producing hydrogen gas and heat. When the coils are removed from the cooling effect of the water, this reaction accelerates, large amounts of steam are produced, temperature rises significantly, hydrogen gas can reach concentrations over the lower explosive limit (4.1%): this can result in an explosive rupture of the coils. Rupturing of a coil may occur even when the coil is only partly immersed in water, and even if the immersion time is short.</font>

I have never heard of this before. Has anyone ever seen this happen?

http://www.alufoil.com/material_safety_data_sheet.htm

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 02-21-2005).]

ibewgypsie
02-21-2005, 03:35 PM
Home made high voltage capacitors explode, wound foil with insulator in non-conducting mineral oil.

The gas bubble produced is what actually explodes.

A plastic bottle filled with torn aluminum strips and "a unamed" toilet bowl cleaner will gas off to the point of explosion. Do not be in it's immediate area. It'll cover you in caustic. The plastic bottle looks like a soap bubble before it ruptures. Large and round if it exceeds the pressure/temperature of self ignition look out for broken windows.

David

Guero
02-21-2005, 03:37 PM
Evan, I haven't had any problems of that sort but have noticed that if I wear my aluminum foil hat aliens have difficulty reading my mind.

Dr. Rob
02-21-2005, 04:14 PM
I vaguely recall having heard that you could die of lead poisoning if you smoke hashish through an aluminum foil hash pipe.

Aaah, stoners... a valuable source of scientific info.

topct
02-21-2005, 04:24 PM
I used to work for the Kaiser rolling mill here in Spokane. Never heard of it there. We didn't make foil [tin foil?] though. Why would the coil be immersed in water?

Maybe someone else?

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Gene

JPR
02-21-2005, 04:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...but have noticed that if I wear my aluminum foil hat aliens have difficulty reading my mind.</font>
Those aren't aliens, that's the NSA.



[This message has been edited by JPR (edited 02-21-2005).]

jwaggs
02-21-2005, 04:50 PM
Sounds like a job for the Mythbusters. How do you "severely" immerse something? I would think you would have to have lye or some other ingredient in the water to have this happen.

CCWKen
02-21-2005, 08:15 PM
That's one of the reasons they use oil! I was at a plant in Oswego, New York that processed rolled sheet. Amazing to watch! The heat off the rolling mills could be felt about 30 feet away. 20,000lb rolls just stacked outside in the snow. I wonder how they handled that?

andy_b
02-21-2005, 08:21 PM
looks like i have an experiment to run once it warms up outside. i have my doubts though. can you see little, old Miss Doe stopping at sam's club and getting a 5000' roll of aluminum foil. then when she gets home it is raining out and she leaves the roll of foil on the roof of the '72 Maverick while she totes the six 40 lb tubs of cat litter into the house. then once she brings the foil in it bursts into flames.

andy b.

hoffman
02-21-2005, 08:42 PM
Is MSDS anything like an AFDB?
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

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Hoffman in Warner Robins Ga

[This message has been edited by hoffman (edited 02-21-2005).]

darryl
02-21-2005, 08:51 PM
Interesting. This whole thing reminds me of the aluminum/air battery that was to be the next great thing in battery technology. Energy density about 10 times better than lead acid. Aluminum is very reactive. IIRC, it 'rusts' very quickly, creating it's own protective coating. I can just imagine accelerating that process with twilight bowel cleaner. Now I'm going to have to try that.

ibewgypsie
02-21-2005, 09:04 PM
Note: tap water is not neutral ph. It is chlorinated, slightly acid.

Do not experiment unless you are aware of the outcome of mixing things together.

Books are cheap, that is unless you are blind or do not have hands/fingers.

Evan
02-21-2005, 10:47 PM
Whaaattt??? "twilight bowel cleaner" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

snowman
02-21-2005, 10:53 PM
"I vaguely recall having heard that you could die of lead poisoning if you smoke hashish through an aluminum foil hash pipe.

Aaah, stoners... a valuable source of scientific info."

LOL...

I should have been dead long long ago.

Maybe us...err...those stoners are the ones that are suggesting that aluminum can lead to alzheimers too...gotta explain that memory loss somehow!

-Jacob

snowman
02-21-2005, 10:56 PM
I had some "friends" put aluminum foil bombs in my yard as a high schooler...it was the thing to do when you covered the trees in toilet paper.

My dad had no problem with the toilet paper, just kids being kids...harmless. But BOY was he PISSED about the foil bombs, and I can't blame him. Ended up having to shoot three of them with a 22 to get them to depressurize, as the didn't go off and we didn't want to handle them until they were deflated.

-Jacob

J Tiers
02-21-2005, 11:14 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
Note: tap water is not neutral ph. It is chlorinated, slightly acid.

Do not experiment unless you are aware of the outcome of mixing things together.

Books are cheap, that is unless you are blind or do not have hands/fingers.</font>

BTW, due to the lead in drinking water, almost every water department keeps the water at a PH of somewhere near 9, because that (or near to that) is the point at which lead is the least soluble in water.

It is an alkaline PH, and would presumably have an effect on aluminum. Lye will react violently with aluminum, which is one reason that Drano has aluminum chips in it.

CCWKen
02-21-2005, 11:57 PM
Dang! I'm gonna quit using Lava soap on my hands to get that silver antiseaze off. I could just see my fingers bursting into flames. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

psomero
02-22-2005, 12:07 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dr. Rob:
I vaguely recall having heard that you could die of lead poisoning if you smoke hashish through an aluminum foil hash pipe.

Aaah, stoners... a valuable source of scientific info.</font>

from what i've heard, it's alzheimers, not lead poisoning and it's a result of "chasing the dragon" with any of a plethora of illicit substances. why the heck would there be lead in aluminum foil anyways? we put it on our food! anyways, it'd make sense, although it'd take a lifetime to notice. i've heard about cooking with aluminum pots/pans has been linked to alzheimers also.

J Tiers
02-22-2005, 12:28 AM
Some form of aluminum deposit has indeed been found in the brains of alzheimer's affected people.

I don't know if that is made worse by habitual use of aluminum pots to cook in, but I surely don't cook tomato sauce in aluminum. In fact, I don't think I have any aluminum pots...nor have I seen any for years. But they were indeed sold years ago as the cheapest pots available, though.

Now that I think about it, though, some of the highest end cookware is aluminum now.....but it is heavily anodized. That may help. Some of those cost $150 for a small frying pan....

Lynn Standish
02-22-2005, 09:57 AM
There may be some truth to this. About 25 years ago, I was at some folks house for dinner and drinks. One of the people there was a brick mason of Indian extraction. He did a little parlor trick that involved taking a small square (2" square?) of the foil from a cigarette pack, folding it over and over on itself, dipping it in water, then rubbing it between his fingers for a while, then placing it on the palm of someone's hand (in this case mine). That little wad of foil generated heat to the point where it raised a blister on my hand and I had to drop it. Never did figure out how he did it, but there may be an answer here if the folding duplicated the properties of the coil.

andy_b
02-22-2005, 12:16 PM
wow, you guys are serious about the foil and water. i thought you were kind of joking. i can say i won't be trying the "roll of foil in water" experiment. i have enough things that can produce controlled explosions without messing with uncontrolled ones. although, it is a handy bit of info to know.

andy b.

Evan
02-22-2005, 12:48 PM
Not joking at all. That is a real MSDS from a real company that makes aluminum foil. I can't imagine why they would put something like that in a MSDS unless it were true.

Rustystud
02-22-2005, 01:55 PM
A word to the wise. We use to take alluminum fillings and disolve them in hydrochloric acid to make hydrogen for ballons. Yes it generates lots of heat and we kept it under ice or running water. Periodically we had one explode and yes it made one hell of a boom. I consider my self lucky to be here today. It is just as dangerous as acetalene. Right up there with making nito in the chemistry lab at school when the teacher was away. I sure am glad the statue of limitations has run and I am still alive.
Rustystud

topct
02-22-2005, 02:55 PM
I wonder if the situation may be due to something they are coating the foil with. They are making differant products and to cover themselves they wrote the MSDS to cover all situations. They do warn against things that would not happen with what they deal with.

In the mean time I am not drinking any water from Hauppauge N.Y.

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Gene