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View Full Version : OT: Marriage!!! Is it worth it?



decoy91288
08-17-2001, 10:09 PM
yes it is worth it. we were married for 26 years - she died ten years ago of brain cancer at 44. not likely to remarry - it would be impossible to not compare.

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 09:04 AM
..........

Al Messer
02-24-2006, 09:18 AM
I am retired and my wife is DELIGHTED when I go down to the Shop and get out of her way! She fully supports my hobby and in fact, she was the one that bought the Lathe and Shaper and Drill Press for me and is going to buy a Milling machine when we can afford it. Been happily married since 1959! Ain't I blessed?

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 09:31 AM
..........

DR
02-24-2006, 09:43 AM
30 years of marriage here....

We solved the money for hobby tools issue long ago. Each of us has our own career. We both contribute the same amount to a household fund, that fund pays the monthly bills, property tax, food, clothing, etc, etc.

After I make my household contribution, I'm free to spend whatever I want on my hobbies, tools, whatever. She has the same freedom to spend as she pleases. Sure saves a lot of bickering over money.

[This message has been edited by DR (edited 02-24-2006).]

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 09:56 AM
..........

Alistair Hosie
02-24-2006, 10:02 AM
I met my wife when I was 19 married when I turned 20 that was 35 years ago this year have a wonderful wife would do it again tomorrow without question.She loves me and I love her and she's been the only one all these years Alistair

StephenK
02-24-2006, 10:27 AM
We will be celebrating our 48th this April. Had our bad times and our good times. Janis has her workshop and I have mine. We seldom talk money or politics, do things together like our daily walk, house cleaning and of course worship services every Sunday.

A little incident happened last evening. We started to have our ice cream after dinner and I knocked mine off the table. Of course the dish broke into a zillion pieces. I said, aren't you going to yell at me or call me dumb. Her reply was,No, it may be me the next time.

Love her from before we were married even though she hated me in High School.

Michael Moore
02-24-2006, 11:09 AM
"30 years of marriage here....
We solved the money for hobby tools issue long ago. Each of us has our own career. We both contribute the same amount to a household fund, that fund pays the monthly bills, property tax, food, clothing, etc, etc.

After I make my household contribution, I'm free to spend whatever I want on my hobbies, tools, whatever. She has the same freedom to spend as she pleases. Sure saves a lot of bickering over money."

Other than 27 years of un-marriage together, and "had" instead of "have" on the careers, that's our situation.

The umbrella of hobby guilt needs to spread over everyone. Luckily, the gem and mineral club is right around the corner so she can keep her faceting machine over there, and I don't have to find space for rock slabbing saws here at home. There are still plenty of rocks (and orchids) all over the place though. But there's plenty of my stuff scattered all over too.

cheers,
Michael

Rusty Marlin
02-24-2006, 11:24 AM
I'm quite a bit younger than most of you who have posted, (mid thirtys). Kim and I have been married 5 years. What eats the time out our lives? A 2 1/2 year old girl and a 1 year old boy. I wouldn't trade it for anything. My wife has dedicated herself to raising the babys, so when I get home I help her, as best I can, after all she is SWMBO. That doesn't leave much time for shop play. But that will change as the kids get older and more independant (I hope).

As far as haveing to sit and watch TV, that's easy, exicute the damned thing. We got along very well for 4+ years with one only hooked to the DVD player. Now, unfortunatly, it gets used as an electric baby sitter. I still don't like to sit and watch TV though. < well OK I think Myth Busters is a hoot> I would much rather build legos, and play blocks with my kids. They get more out of that than any amount of TV.

Holy Cow! this soap box got high in a hurry; I better get off before I fall and hurt myself! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Your Old Dog
02-24-2006, 11:31 AM
I certainly got lucky like some of the others. But, it wasn't all luck. I have given her my "Conan Speech" on several occasions and now I think she accepts me for who I am.

I told her it bothers me that women are seeking a Conan the Barbarian type. Someone who can protect them and the brood and provide for all their needs. They want him ruthless with the outside world and fully able to be strong. BUT THEN, they also want him to be swish-metro-male type who wears hairspray, picks out gushy anniversary,birthday type cards and remembers to have roses sent to them for every occasion. Hell I can't even remember the exact day of my wife's birthday or our anniversary. I simply explained to her that if the success of our marriage is going to be jusdjed by how well I remember these dates then our marriage is a failure. If it's based on how well we're living and how much I think of her and what I try to do for her that she doesn't even ask for then maybe we're doing okay. Now, 36 years later, we've never been closer. Now we argue about the opposite things. Everytime I walk into the living room she wants to change the channel to what I want to watch. I've often told her she would have no life if I died as she's always so willing to do what I want and can't cough up an idea of what she wants to do when I ask!!

You know, I think it's important to note how Hollywood and the commercial folks are portraying white males as goof offs with no ability what so ever. Advertising works or we wouldn't have TV. If theres good advertising then there has to be bad as well. That's going to cause our daughters much trouble if they take all this in as the real world. If there's a white guy on tv, he's an asshole and never the one who could possibly know anything or be of any value in a relationship. Only the Geek is allowed to show any masculine traits and they are really watered down. You won't find many wrench's, lumber jacks and construction workers unless they're all stupid.


[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 02-24-2006).]

speedsport
02-24-2006, 11:31 AM
bumpersticker: "Lonely beats Miserable"
Married for 19 years, then single for 15 years, now married for 6. Being single ain't the perfect life but it has it's good points, divorces are expensive and traumatic, but you survive and things get better, and better. Living with someone who doesn't want you to be happy SUX!!. You get to do this thing one time, don't blow it.

thebusdweller
02-24-2006, 11:52 AM
three words-- ditch the bitch

Evan
02-24-2006, 12:01 PM
Thanks for reminding me again Dan. Our 35th is in just over a week.

"I'm seriously thinking that after I have my workshop built at the new place I should set up one corner with a cot, refrigerator, microwave, coffee pot, radio, etc. like an efficiency apartment. (Should I put in a bathroom too? )"

Don't forget the inflatable sheep. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Too_Many_Tools
02-24-2006, 12:20 PM
I suspect that this will be one very busy thread. ;< )

In reference to your question having a good marriage means that you are living with your best friend, having a bad marriage means that you are sleeping with the enemy.

So having a good marriage is the BEST thing that will ever happen to you...and having a bad marriage will be LIVING IN HELL ON EARTH.

Considering that between 50-60% of first time marriages fail with subsequent marriage failures rates even higher, the chance you will have a happy marriage is in the minority. If you do, go give your spouse a hug right now because you are a very lucky person.

Divorce is also very BIG business at your expense if your marriage fails. It is the quickest way to downsize your shop..remember all those great buys we get at divorce sales?

It is also interesting that over 40% of the couples in the United States today do not marry...and that trend is increasing.

Is marriage worth it? Well I think the answer depends on whether you win or lose at the venture...kind of like buying a lottery ticket.


TMT

tattoomike68
02-24-2006, 12:33 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
I'm seriously thinking that after I have my workshop built at the new place I should set up one corner with a cot, refrigerator, microwave, coffee pot, radio, etc. like an efficiency apartment. (Should I put in a bathroom too? </font>

Yes a whole bathroom and shower. maybe a dead bolt lock and a mean dog too.

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 12:46 PM
..........

Wirecutter
02-24-2006, 12:54 PM
Well, I got lucky. Married 8.5 yrs - she keeps track of every cent, but she's forgotten more about finances than I've ever known. I hate dealing with bills, taxes, and all that, and she doesn't mind. She lets me spend on the shop as long as I'm still saving for retirement, making the bills, etc. If I really, really want something, I can get it, I just have to decide if the sacrifice is worth it. (Like waiting an extra year or two to retire?)

Weston Bye
02-24-2006, 12:59 PM
Just random thoughts:

An old man I knew retired from his job as a tool grinder. Just to keep busy he set up a grinder in the garage and started regrinding worn tool bits and drills. He had hardly gotten started, when his wife came around with her brush and dustpan and pecked at him about the grinding dust and began sweeping it up even as he worked. This didn't last long before he shut off the grinder, put down the handfull of bits and went into the house and sat in front of the TV and watched soap operas until he died. Wasn't long.

Another fellow whose job and hobby shared many of the same skills explained to his wife that his intrests had supported her for lo these many years and she should be grateful that he was content to pursue those intrests rather than other less productive activities. Can your hobby turn a little profit now and then? Might help.

Some women want you nearby...just not too close or too friendly... a slight change in your behavior...maybe she will encourage you to go to your shop and quit bothering her.

Wes

Mcgyver
02-24-2006, 01:13 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/ShortFairyTale.jpg

j/j, I'm happily married, 4 kids & 18 years. the secret is to be a caveman.

pcarpenter
02-24-2006, 01:31 PM
Let me first say that I am divorced and remarried. As a Christian, I don't believe in divorce and I would not recommend divorce, but it happened to me anyway. Two people *who want to* accomodate each other can fix some seemingly insurmountable stuff and learn compromise with a *good* counselor (there are plenty who are just nut-jobs themselves) to serve as a sort of referee and help you identify general male/female differences as well as your own specific personality quirks.

I really am now married to a wonderful woman who is supportive of my interests like I never thought possible. She may be this supportive in a sacrificial way, but she never plays the victim. This, in turn, makes me want to turn off the lights in the shop more often and go iside and spend a little time watching something on TV with her, or go to a movie, etc.. I knew I was going to need more balance (time spent on my interests, vs time with my wife) if I got remarried..and in truth, it came naturally...I love my wife and she is kind and loving to me...and I just *want* to be around her. I used to "escape" my ex by going to my shop which is not a healthy thing. Now I do it for the right reasons, knowing I have a smiling face waiting for me.

My ex had issues that transcended our relationship. Among other things, she had no real hobbies of her own and that made us both miserable, but she was not the type to want hobbies and this sounds similar to your situation. Healthy relationships do involve *some* (we have to be careful not to over do this, guys) time apart and she did not want much of that. The only things she did with her time were to hang out with family and friends and to rag on me. Most counselors will tell you that griping at one another has exactly the opposite of the desired effect. Instead, sacrificing without the expectation of reciprocation shows love and yields a desire in the other person to do the same if each is not selfish. So yeah...find a good counselor and work on it together and figure on talking frankly but kindly about expectations and hearing each other out rather than just fighting. Each of you has to know what the other *thinks* is reasonable and then strike a compromise and be a man about it and not whine while sacrificing. My ex and I had a great book that really nailed our problems (we all grow up differently and have different "schemas" or pre-conceived notions of how things ought to work), but my ex hit a prideful brick wall when it came to dealing with some of this stuff and divorce was easier for her.

I really thought you were going to get mostly rude advice here, but I am impressed with the wisdom from some...many of whom clearly know how to stay married a long time. I wish you well. Paul

mochinist
02-24-2006, 01:41 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
Oh gee Mike! You had to go and mention a dog.

I can't have a dog because according to her, one dog (her dog) is enough. There's a long story behind this but I won't go there because it really, really pisses me off.</font>
Sounds like you need to quit being a ***** and stop letting her push you around.

lenord
02-24-2006, 01:50 PM
No smart ass answers here.

I suggest couples counseling. They can work wonders. You might learn WHY she wants a second dog, you.

There are marriages that have one person as Alpha etc. etc. ...and marriages where both are equals. You work, she works. Money does not seem to be the issue. Control seems to be ?

If therapy is out, next time she starts in on you for this or that, have a discussion about her griping. MAKE that the topic, not whether or not you are or are not doing what she wants. Find out if she just wants to spend time with you or what. Might make spending time with her, x amount per day, averaged or whatever works, the solution.

If therapy, discussion etc. fail, buy a book on how to ditch the bitch and keep your money/house/shop before you do anything. Then find a lawyer and go from there.

Making yur own apartment in your shop, with your money, to keep away from the woman is no way to live.

BTW, I thought mine was hard to deal with too. I thought she was in perimenopause, she was, but she is also bi-polar 2 with OCD. Relationships are hard and take work, I thought mine was taking a little more than it should. It was, she is BP2, in which reasonable thinking not a common thing. You might google bi-polar2 for the symptoms to look for.

FWIW
Lenord

debequem
02-24-2006, 02:58 PM
Nearly half the people will tell you that marriage is good 50% of the time. The other half will tell you its bad 50% of the time.

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 03:02 PM
..........

mochinist
02-24-2006, 03:26 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
Be nice turd boy or I'll bring out that picture your mama sent me. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

</font>lol I was being nice, I was giving you real advice.

Kansas_Farmer
02-24-2006, 03:29 PM
Heh...interesting question....

I know what I think the answer is....and what I'd give to get it.......

pgmrdan
02-24-2006, 03:34 PM
..........

mochinist
02-24-2006, 03:41 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
Yeah, on the mochinist niceness scale (is that an oxymoron) I suppose you were being extremely nice with your advice. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif</font>
Ok get over yourself, I will pansy it down for you. You need to be a man and stand up for yourself, marriage is a two way street and you need to stop letting her rule your world, if you want a dog , go get a damn dog, I guarantee she will end up liking it. If you want some tools you should be able to have some money to buy them as long as it is in the budget especially since you make more.

Wayne02
02-24-2006, 03:59 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pgmrdan:
How do you guys cope?</font>
The short answer is I would not permit that type of behavior from my wife. It is simply unacceptable. I'm well aware of the controlling, complaining, busy body, nagging, over bearing behavior you describe. I refuse to even be around people like this for one hour, much less a lifetime.

I know that sounds harsh, but life is way too short to go through it with a person who behaves this way. Last time I checked you don't get a do-over in life. I would attempt counseling first, and if that did not work I would proceed towards a divorce. While money has been mentioned several times, I suspect there is more going on here than just money. She is of the controlling, never happy personality, and it is highly unlikely you will ever change that.

I'm fortunate in that I've been married for some years (I can't remember, it's either 20 or 22 years) to a wonderful women. She doesn't hassle me about how I spend my time or our money, and I don't hassle her. She would no sooner put up with the type of behavior you describe from me, than I would from her.

We take family vacations, and we each take separate vacations occasionally. She has her hobbies (spinning and knitting) and I have mine (racing and firearms). She goes to the track with me on race weekends most times and occasionally to the range as well. But I don't go to the knitting group get togethers... gotta draw the line somewhere. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif However, she goes to far more knitting get togethers than I do races over the course of the year.

She has established a strong set of social friends through her spinning/knitting groups in the local community, as well as traveling to other states for shows etc. I think this has been healthy for her to have "her" friends, in addition to our mutual family friends. Maybe your wife would like to get involved with a local group of her friends?

Interestingly enough we appear to have slightly different motives for our individual hobbies. She is much more focused on the social aspect of her hobby. I'm interested in the social aspect of my hobby as well. But I'm also in it for the passion that a un-muffled V8 engine at full song down the back-straight stirs in my soul when I'm behind the wheel.

Best of luck to you!

Wayne

Dawai
02-24-2006, 04:04 PM
I had one mean woman fully capable of cleaning out a bar. A tomboy I really liked, the hard muscle, the sparkly eyes, the big hooters. Man could she push a harley. *she had them big ole calves.

I came home drinking, got picked up *I weigh 300lbs, stuffed into the corner about four feet off the floor, sideways.

I hung there thinking, I really don't like this, this sucks. After I stuck my thumbs in her eyes and we had a really good fight, the black eyes healed and she was "asked to leave". My mental bruises have not healed. I find my fists balling up when she comes close. We have a kid together. She has not asked for a rematch. I keep expecting it.

Then I was happy, traveling around in a small travel trailer and working spot jobs. Drinking moonshine, riding my harley. (farting), waking up with harley parts in bed with me.

Then I met Carrol.. gee, good cook, not a mean bone in her body. I am keeping her. I think.. unless I get stuffed into another corner.

You live day by day, someday you will die before the day is done. I am still learning.

AHH am not a animal.. (elephant man)

pistonskirt
02-24-2006, 04:19 PM
Bigamy is the having of one wife too many

monogamy is exactly the same !

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

speedsport
02-24-2006, 04:34 PM
This woman is the boss because you let her be. I suggest you get some balls and take charge again, if she don't like it pack your **** and move out, and don't look back. NEVER, NEVER, "give it another chance", they change for a month or so and then it's back to the same old ****. Believe me, you can be very content and happy without a woman around all the time.

Your Old Dog
02-24-2006, 05:23 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pcarpenter:
Most counselors will tell you that griping at one another has exactly the opposite of the desired effect. Instead, sacrificing without the expectation of reciprocation shows love and yields a desire in the other person to do the same if each is not selfish.</font>

That's what they told me in Family Living Class over 35 years ago but they put it a little differanty but it stuck. They said, "Want your wife to be more of a wife? Try being more of a husband." And it's true, it works but no instant gratification here, it takes a little longer but last much longer http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

rockrat
02-24-2006, 05:30 PM
Well, there has been all sorts of advice posted here. And in most of it I think that you'll find a common thread.

-You need to be happy. You dont deserve to be glum because you dont get along with her. -

What ever you do (ie counciling, talking, leaving, fixing, etc) make sure that your happy. Life's too short Grasshopper, find your inner peace.

rock-

Warren
02-24-2006, 05:31 PM
This is a good subject. When I met my wife I told her,

"I hunt, fish & ski. Your welcome to come along or stay home. I don't wanna hear any bitching about me going off for a week or two. You don't have to worry about me screwing around on you. One of you Goddamned Broads is enough for me".

We have been together for almost 14 years & she has become my best friend. I have a small business & she stays out of it. She has a job & pays her own way. We too have a joint account for paying the household bills. It is a good arrangement.

rsr911
02-24-2006, 05:37 PM
It's sort of a sad state of affairs in my home. I'm the easy going type outside of work and mostly easy going at work since I have very good employees. I've been with my wife for 9.5 years and married for the last 3.5 during that time I tried to be me and she would either ignore me, keep a messy home, never cook or do laundry etc. now I find the "meaner" I am the happier she is but it make me miserable. Imagine having to be the boss all day long at work then come home to a much more "challenging" employee. Two years ago we found out she has borderline personality disorder which certianly explains a lot. I see my own therapist just to learn how to deal with her. Heck I even lost long term sobriety due to my inability to handle the situation compounded by not working my program like I did years ago, now that I'm back where I should be she complains that I spend too much time in the program. However I come home and that's all she wants is me at home. Basically my wife has the emotional maturity of a 13-14 year old. I have to pay all the bills, take her pay check and give her an allowance and keep after her to pull her weight. Why do I stay? I married for better or worse and my wife has an illness, sure it's mental but it's still an illness. I have suffered panic disorder my entire adult life and even though it's very much under control these days what if it wasn't, should she leave me? I've had two doctors tell me to leave her but I wouldn't. I told my therapist I wanted to try to make it work but to be straight with me if she thought it wouldn't so far her advice has been very helpful.

My point here is that we can only control ourselves, we are powerless over everyone else and perhaps the secret to happiness lies in knowing what we can and cannot change. I cannot change my wife but perhaps the way I talk to her and treat her will bring about more acceptable responses. Example in the evening my wife is tired and wants to lie around watching TV but during the day her motor's running if you get my drift, now I just take long lunches whenever I can. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

HWooldridge
02-24-2006, 06:17 PM
I am fortunate to have a great wife. We have been married for 25 years and raised 4 sons to adulthood. We made a pact a long time ago to be united against the world - a team of two. That doesn't mean we don't fight but we still like each other enough to make up afterwards. We don't insult each other in private or in front of friends or family plus we don't favor our relations with our parents over our own marriage.

We also always told the kids they would grow up and leave but we would stay married until one of us died. The boys always knew they could never play one of us off the other. We did not play "good cop/bad cop" - if a boy did something wrong, we both jumped his ass. After he was punished, we went back to being a family and the matter was forgotten. We had one son involved in serious legal trouble as a teen - we made sure he paid his debts but stuck by him the whole time. All of these trials over the years made our marriage stronger.

We also have separate hobbies. My wife is a quilter plus she sews clothing for friends/family and I have my metal hobbies so we can get away from each other if need be. The truth is that she has been around metal work for 25 years and I have been around sewing for the same amount of time - which means we can offer opinions to the other when asked. She has helped me design iron gates and I have assisted her with laying out quilts.

I think a lot of couples don't spend enough time in real and meaningful conversation. I don't mean a bunch of crying or touchy-feely stuff (unless it's really needed) but the stereotypes are that a woman will chatter incessantly about nothing while a man sits stony faced and watches TV. If this is the reality in a relationship, then one partner needs to take the initiative to change it and the other partner needs to respond. When communication breaks down, the marriage is effectively doomed, even if it lasts for many years and I think people have a tendency to turn to other things instead of to each other so the relationship turns cold. Marriage is a long term deal not to be entered lightly - better to get spayed and stay a swinging single...;-)

None of this is meant as criticism to anyone, just my 2 cents on the subject.

chiphead42
02-24-2006, 06:36 PM
Marriage may be ok for some, but I would not recommend it for single people!!!! chiphead42

IOWOLF
02-24-2006, 07:11 PM
In a word, Yes.
IMHO

------------------
The tame Wolf !

nheng
02-24-2006, 07:28 PM
Coming up on 20+ years next month, I can only offer one small piece of advice based on my personal "cause and effect" studies http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

For each day that you do something special with them, you will be left undisturbed to work in the shop or whatever, for about 1 - 2 weeks.

If your daughter is in her teens, or getting close, a simple way to get along is to paint and re-do her room together (doesn't have to cost much, either), with her calling the shots of course http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif This also earns mileage with the wife who now admires you for spending time with your daughter. Points: 3 - 7 shop days http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Den

Evan
02-24-2006, 07:42 PM
"If your daughter is in her teens, or getting close, "...

Another tactic I found helpful was to step outside at night on random evenings and fire a couple of loads of 7 1/2 bird shot straight up. It really made the young guys nervous who would come sniffing around her window at night. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

(had full support from wife on that)

TECHSHOP
02-24-2006, 08:30 PM
Today is my daughters eight birthday, my wife and I married sometime before that, and where together for a few years before that, but whats the point of getting older if I have to start remembering everything.

Right now my wife income is zero, and my income is zero, so the dollar is stretched tighter than a frog's arse underwater. But tomarrow there will be a party for "Big Sister" and her friends.

We were born into this world with nothing, and when we die it will all be left behind.
How that time is spent and who it is spent with, is the important portion of the equation, because it is how we are judged.

In two, three generations most of us will be reduced to an interesting name on the family tree, and a marker in the dirt.

I am not a pious person by any measure, I just believe that harmony will never be found in mutual unhappiness; and every man must decide what that means for himself

On a lighter side:

Ah doan let 'er boder me 'less ah feel lak it.

------------------
Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

charlie coghill
02-24-2006, 09:46 PM
I sure can't add any thing to what has been said already. I have been married 42/43 years and we raised 5 rugrats.

We have not had any real problems over the years. The wife was a stay at home mom. We did not have a lot of extra money but we got along.

Now I have my shop and she never says any thing about the money I spend or the time that I put in the shop.

George Hodge
02-24-2006, 10:51 PM
We're headed to 50 this December.It's been fun!I found a super sweetheart and I ain't gonna let her go! 3 great kids,supporting themselves and they've all been divorced once.All remarried and still on their own.Momma and I are doing our thing!!

jim davies
02-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Lots of good warstories here and some real wisdom. RSR911 talking about BPD really touched a nerve. Been there and barely survived and wish you all the best, buddy...a new girlfriend [and headshrinker] says I have many of the symptons of PTSD when it comes to relating to women now. If they show any kind of attitude to me I am just outa there. No more trying to "talk things out."

I wouldn't wish the kind of stuff I went through on my worst enemy.

Spin Doctor
02-24-2006, 11:48 PM
Of course its worth it, as long as both parties make it work. And that is the key

Bill Cook
02-25-2006, 12:38 AM
Spent some time grumbling 'bout it this afternoon. All grumbled out.

Guess I don't have it so bad after after all.

BC

hsm55424
02-25-2006, 02:20 AM
Pgrmdan, you created the situation by accepting the behavior you describe. Or maybe it is just how her mom treated her dad. If you don't change, it sure won't get better on its own.

She's chewing your butt because it's what she does, the immediate *reasons* you state that she does it for are irrelevant. Don't get hung up on the tit-for-tat, that's not what's driving it.

Divorce is not the only answer. Counseling or therapy isn't cheap but it is cheaper than divorce. Give it a try. Be open to your own flaws not just hers. You have been together long enough, you can get through this together.

For me the counseling made it obvious that divorce was the answer.

Life is short. The last year has been the best of my life. Worth every penny of material sacrifice and every bit of short-term stress. Your mileage may vary.

I like the PTSD comment. Have mercy on the woman who falls for me.

mike thomas
02-25-2006, 09:43 AM
I just have a question about some of what has been said. Assume both in a couple both work, pay equal shares of the bills, and take equal allowances each month. Now with her allowance, shoes, drinks and lunches are bought. At the end of a year so many thousands have been spent with nothing to show for it.
He takes his allowance and buys tools, collectibles, builds up a nice investment portfolio and improves the living quarters.
Will a divorce court judge say to her, "Sorry, you blew your share." Or will the judge give her the male's share as part of a community property settlement?
I already know the answer, some of you thinkng you have a fair share deal worked out are sitting on a time bomb. Mike

thebusdweller
02-25-2006, 10:56 AM
amen mike, what goes down in a court room during a divorse should be required reading.
i'll say it again, ditch the bitch, tom

Wirecutter
02-25-2006, 01:13 PM
The guy I really envy (and have forgotten the identity of at the moment) is the one whose wife participates in the shop. There were some photos here of her ideas and implementation of organizing stuff. Very cool stuff, very lucky man.

More on-topic, I find that in any relationship (husband/wife, boss/worker, etc) it's a big help if the two parties understand each others' expectations and are willing to try to meet them. I am sooo grateful for that rapport with my wife.

When I first started working for the boss I have now - like in the first few weeks - I nearly quit in anger a couple of times. I never do that, either. Problem was I didn't know how to get a "read" on the guy, and he is extremely stubborn when pushed or angry. Now that we understand each other, it's not a problem at all. I've worked for the same boss for years now.

The same is true with my wife - the hardest spots were early on when the rules and such were being established. Now that we know the basics, we can handle pretty much anything life throws at us.

(Ok, if I was seduced by Cindy Crawford, we might have a rough patch, but what are the odds? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif )

maddog
02-25-2006, 04:08 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Alistair Hosie:
I met my wife when I was 19 married when I turned 20 that was 35 years ago this year have a wonderful wife would do it again tomorrow without question.She loves me and I love her and she's been the only one all these years Alistair</font>

I married my high school sweet heart. I had
to go get an education to win her back but
it was worth it. Married for 25 years, we
met in 1974.

She lets me do anything I want and buy any
shop equipment that I feel the need for.

I just bought a Superflow flowbench. She
didn't say a word about that.

A chassis dyno is the next thing, but I have
to get rid of a toy (my stingray)first.

ricksplace
02-25-2006, 04:32 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rsr911:
It's sort of a sad state of affairs in my home. I'm the easy going type outside of work and mostly easy going at work since I have very good employees. I've been with my wife for 9.5 years and married for the last 3.5 during that time I tried to be me and she would either ignore me, keep a messy home, never cook or do laundry etc. now I find the "meaner" I am the happier she is but it make me miserable. Imagine having to be the boss all day long at work then come home to a much more "challenging" employee. Two years ago we found out she has borderline personality disorder which certianly explains a lot. I see my own therapist just to learn how to deal with her. Heck I even lost long term sobriety due to my inability to handle the situation compounded by not working my program like I did years ago, now that I'm back where I should be she complains that I spend too much time in the program. However I come home and that's all she wants is me at home. Basically my wife has the emotional maturity of a 13-14 year old. I have to pay all the bills, take her pay check and give her an allowance and keep after her to pull her weight. Why do I stay? I married for better or worse and my wife has an illness, sure it's mental but it's still an illness. I have suffered panic disorder my entire adult life and even though it's very much under control these days what if it wasn't, should she leave me? I've had two doctors tell me to leave her but I wouldn't. I told my therapist I wanted to try to make it work but to be straight with me if she thought it wouldn't so far her advice has been very helpful.

My point here is that we can only control ourselves, we are powerless over everyone else and perhaps the secret to happiness lies in knowing what we can and cannot change. I cannot change my wife but perhaps the way I talk to her and treat her will bring about more acceptable responses. Example in the evening my wife is tired and wants to lie around watching TV but during the day her motor's running if you get my drift, now I just take long lunches whenever I can. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>


Damn, hit the return key before typing the message.. I'm gonna edit...

RSR- I was married to a woman for 20 years. She developed Bipolar Disorder. I stuck it out for many years because I said "for better or worse, in sickness and in health" Finally, my health and the health of my kids became affected, so I left. Cost me my house, pretty much all of my toys and savings, but my kids and I are a lot more happy (kids live with me). If you are male, and want custody of your kids, it's gonna cost you your left nut. Kids are grown now, (19 and 23) they're healthy, and they get along with their Mom OK.

You sound like you have the right attitude, you can only change your own behaviour. Remember that you have to respect yourself too, and that means sometimes doing what is best for you.

Sounds to me like you have your **** together. Good luck.


[This message has been edited by ricksplace (edited 02-25-2006).]

[This message has been edited by ricksplace (edited 02-25-2006).]

snowman
02-25-2006, 04:53 PM
Why is it so hard?

to be married I mean.

I dont find it that difficult. I cook, I clean, she cooks, she cleans. If you aren't sharing tasks...you've got no room to bitch. If she's not sharing tasks, you need to figure out why.

Why are you coming online to bitch that your wife doesn't do anything? Shouldn't you be having that conversation with your wife?

-Jacob

rsr911
02-25-2006, 11:15 PM
Jim, Rick,

Thanks for the kind words. I get through it one day at a time although I forgot about that awhile back and temporarily lost something very precious to me. I much more active in my program now than I had been. I also find the therapist to be very helpful as she is teaching me how to speak to my wife. I've also found meditation, what a gift!

Many times I've thought of divorce, I figure my higher power will let me know when the time comes. Until then I pray for patience and serenity, meditate, and enjoy my machining. My daughter is fascinated by the machines but a little to young yet for me to start teaching her.

My wife can be a very loving and caring woman at times, much like she was when we first met. The trick for me is in finding out what triggers both the good and bad episodes so I can to some degree influence her mood.

The original question was is marriage worth it. I'd have to say yes even in my case, although it would be really worth it if my wife was more sane. My sister wants me to leave, apparently she has a list of girlfriends who like me and my daughter. Liking me at first glance is easy, loving me for who I am is a whole different ball of wax. I take medication for panic disorder which is largely in remission, and need a lot of time to myself for my program and my hobbies. On my list of things most important to me my daughter is second and everything else falls after that, the best a woman can hope for is third on that list and right now the space is occupied by a special woman with an illness. I admit I let resentments build from time to time but prayer and meditation always seem to relieve me of them, that and just being honest with myself about the problem.

jim davies
02-25-2006, 11:36 PM
rsr911 your third paragraph above tells me you should check out some of the BP resources on the 'net. Try BPD411. Lots of good info and advice and a support group. It's closely moderated and takes some time to follow but I found it worhwhile. BPs have a lot of cookie-cutter similarities so other's travails can be pretty helpful guidance. I can't remebember all the stuff I saw there that later turned out to be true...;-(

HWooldridge
02-25-2006, 11:52 PM
If the original question is whether marriage is worth it - then that is purely an individual decision with no right answer. I personally believe couples should marry and have kids but that's not right for everyone - the kids suffer if the marriage is not good.

I had a male cousin who never married - my grandfather and his dad were brothers. He lived with his parents until his father died and then he took care of his mom until she passed. When he finally died, I told my wife that no trace of him existed - he left a small burial policy and his old Marine uniform. We were the only family at the funeral. However, he had a few friends and spent time at his church so maybe it was not a life in vain - only the Lord knows and it's certainly not my place to judge.

Money and toys are not the answer either. I worked for a man who was worth almost a billion in cash - but he was a miserable old man. He left his wife and "divorced" his kids, because he held everyone at arm's length so nobody could get close to him. Money became his god but it was not something he could take with him so he spent his final days just waiting to die - with no one that loved him. However, I am glad I worked for him because after our relationship ended, I realized that money is just a tool to get toys. I think a few toys are good to have but much more than that can become a burden.

Marriage can be a divine blessing if it's good and a supreme pain if it's not. I hope that anyone who has posted here with major marital problems can work them out to the benefit of all involved.

gkman11
02-26-2006, 07:31 AM
A while back I made an overnight trip to pick up my lathe (about $2,600). I stopped at a greenhouse on the way back and picked up a pretty potted plant for Mary. Was it guilt, a con, gratitude, thoughtfulness? All of the above? Hell if I know. Doesn't matter. What mattered was I had a gift she liked when I got back. Women like that. It's not for me to understand, just accept. Been a great 5 1/2 years. Looking foreward to many more.

lenord
02-26-2006, 09:26 AM
There is a private e-mail group for Significant Others of people who are bipolar, www.bpso.org (http://www.bpso.org)
There may be one out there for the S.O.'s of people who are BPD too.
They tend to help the S.O. a whole lot by sharing experiences with meds, docs, therapists, symptoms, tips, tricks etc. It kept me with my S.O. instead of tossing her out. For the time being anyway.

Lenord

ricksplace
02-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Some good advice here, Christian, regarding Bipolar Affective Disorder.

Jim -what you said is so true. I wouldn't wish what you and I endured on anyone. I had to commit my ex to a psych ward three times.

Is Marriage worth it? You becha. Would I do it over? Yep. Would I do it again? Dunno.

When I first got on my own, I declared my house an "estrogen free zone" except for my daughter and her friends. I told my friends, that if they ever saw me with another woman, to castrate me with a dull soupspoon.

I have met another woman and our relationship is just great. My friends are happy for me, and have stopped waving spoons at me.

just my .02

Rick.

ps. The shrink told me that once my ex was on her own, she would have to take better care of herself, since I would not be there anymore there to pick up the pieces. The shrink was right.

[This message has been edited by ricksplace (edited 02-26-2006).]

ttok
02-26-2006, 04:06 PM
"Sweet are the uses of adversity which doth, like a toad, pour forth a deadly venom, and yet hath a jewel in its head!" Shakespeare - As You Like It