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elbryant
03-01-2005, 01:36 AM
(Sorry about the pic size, I thought photobucket would trim it when I submited them.)

Thanks, guys for the help with numerous questions in the last week or two. I am almost finished, but I'm ready to show off already.

What I have been making is a threading box. It looks like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/Thredbox2.jpg

It makes threaded wooden rods, 1-5/8 x 4, like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/dieout3.jpg

I made it in two parts, with one threaded, and the other as a guide, sized the same as the rod.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/entry2.jpg

I am nearly finished with the corresponding tap. I have to decide whether to drill it for a T-handle or mill a square and make a wrench that can also be usedon taper reamers. The tricky part will be to mill the grooves that will properly relieve cutting edges. ANY IDEAS HOW BEST TO DO IT? I just have a milling attachment. I was going to use a ball end mill set just under dead center.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/tap.jpg

I was pleased to see all my arithmatic worked out -- the tap fits the die !!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/tapfits.jpg

Here is a picture of the cutter. I had to hardent and temper it, and it came out right the first time !!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/cutter.jpg


[This message has been edited by elbryant (edited 03-01-2005).]

G.A. Ewen
03-01-2005, 02:04 AM
Well done. I have a wood working friend that would love to have a tool like that.

To reduce the size of your photos hit the EDIT button at the top of the photo and resize to 50%.

I have found that it is better to resize before puting them into PhotoBucket, they load faster.

Charlie Rose
03-01-2005, 03:37 AM
If you have a nut that fits the tap blank you can just drill the cutting flutes in from the front end. Look at a factory made tap to get an idea as to how much hook to put in,should show up best in a bottoming tap .

Stanko
03-01-2005, 04:32 AM
Thats pretty neat. Im wondering where all the sawdust goes when the metal threads take their place just after the cutter.

elbryant
03-01-2005, 09:10 AM
Stanko,

The picture of the cutter is taken through a hole milled in the side of the unit. The wood comes out there. The cutter cuts the complete thread in one pass - different from cutting metal threads.

Ed

elbryant
03-01-2005, 09:34 AM
Charlie,

1-5/8 x 4 isn't a standard nut, so I would have to make it. Any other suggestions?

Ed

Michael Az
03-01-2005, 10:04 AM
Very nice work elbryant. Looks like a fun job.
Michael

dvk
03-01-2005, 12:06 PM
VERY NICE job...

andy_b
03-01-2005, 01:05 PM
beautiful work!
of course i have to ask, what the heck uses a huge wooden screw like that?

andy b.

elbryant
03-01-2005, 01:08 PM
Bookbinding presses, in my case, specifically a press called a "lying press" that allows work on the edges of the book. I also use them for a "plough," which is a device for trimming the edges of the book. In the past, they used to be part of woodworking vises, and still are in a few cases.

Ed

[This message has been edited by elbryant (edited 03-01-2005).]

tryp
03-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Neat, lee valley tools sells setups for making wooden threads in many sizes like this, however they cost a bunch more.

cliff69
03-01-2005, 04:57 PM
Cool work..but why not just use an ACME screw, unless you are recreating a press, seems like a metal acme screw would do a better job.

elbryant
03-01-2005, 05:42 PM
Tryp,

Unless Lee Valley has something really new, their thread boxes make smaller pitched threads.

Ed

elbryant
03-01-2005, 05:44 PM
Cliff,

The main reason for the wooden screw is the rapid action. Steel, low pitch threads are too tempting to clamp beyond the ability of the backing boards to hold up, squeezing the book out of shape.

Ed

John Garner
03-01-2005, 06:29 PM
elbryant --

Very nice looking work, you should be proud of your craftsmanship.

As far as finishing the tap, I'd cross-drill the shank to take a T-handle. A spring-loaded plunger or drilling and tapping for a T-handle retainer would also be on my agenda.

I don't see any real advantage to using a ball-end mill to flute the tap; I'd use a standard end mill to cut 90 degree Vs with one face of the V in a plane passing through the lengthwise axis of the tap. [That will produce a "zero rake" cutter; producing a "positive rake" cutter would require feeding the end mill deeper into the tap. I'm not coming up with the right words to describe this geometry, but if you sketch a circle with a radial line (representing the zero-rake face) and two parallel-to-the-radial-line lines, one ahead of and one behind the radial line, you'll get the idea.]

One thing does concern me: A standard metal cutting tap is normally too large to screw into a same-thread-size die. Why? So that the tapped hole in the female-threaded workpiece is larger than the die-cut thread on the male-threaded workpiece.

John

Your Old Dog
03-01-2005, 06:29 PM
Thanks for shareing and great workmanship! Got me green with envy. Would look great hanging on my woodshop wall!

spkrman15
03-01-2005, 06:55 PM
Ok i missed something. How does this work? Is one side for doing nuts and the other is used to do bolts? My mom is really into wood working, so i find this all interesting. What i really don't understand is how the threads are cut.

The work is amazing though. Nice job. It is so great when things work out!! Good work

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

elbryant
03-01-2005, 07:25 PM
John,

You are right about taps in metal, they have to be larger than the die. In this case it is the cutter that is actually doing the cutting, and it describes a smaller thread than the tap, and is adjusted to do so. The threads in the threading box act more as a guide. Here is another shot of the cutter:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/elbryant/cutter2.jpg

You may have noticed one end of the cutter sticking out in the very first picture, and the brass rod securing it in the second picture. The cutter advances so that it cuts just deeper than the threads. If it didn't, it would all bind and the threads wouldn't be able to pull the rod through.

Ed

[This message has been edited by elbryant (edited 03-01-2005).]

elbryant
03-01-2005, 07:29 PM
Rob,

The tap (which is still unfinished) makes the bolts, or rather the female threads in one side of the vise or clamp.

The thread box makes the rod. The rod, turned to the correct diameter enters the unthreaded guide side of the threadbox, where it contacts the cutter, which is at just the right angle to start cutting a thread. As threading continues, the rod soon engages the threaded portion of the threadbox, which pulls the rod through at just the right rate to cut coinciding threads.

Ed

tattoomike68
03-01-2005, 07:33 PM
I will have to get some pictures of my friends taps he made to tap metric acme blocks for some german book binding machines.

he made them years ago and charges $100 a hole from them, no joke.(they have made the money back 5 times +)

the parts you have made look great, very nice work.

wierdscience
03-01-2005, 09:50 PM
Funny this should come up,since just today I threaded a Lignum Vitae bench vise screw,single point in the lathe http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I have a functioning tap that I will post pictures of.Real simple,but don't put full flutes in it like a metal cutter.

This tap just has one hole bored all the way through similar to the hole type countersinks.

meho
03-01-2005, 10:07 PM
Cool. I like it! You mean you can't get those at Home Depot?
James

Mike Burdick
03-01-2005, 10:22 PM
Ed,

Very Nice! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Mike

elbryant
03-01-2005, 10:23 PM
Wierd,

I'm all eyes, and look forward to your post. I especially wat to see your tap, since that part isn't finished yet.

I have single-pointed wood threads before, and the bigger they are and the tougher the wood the more likely it has to be done that way. In fact, in the old days with the big old cider presses and such, the use a single-point boring tool, kinda like when we put a boring bar between centers and bore out something on the saddle by incrementally moving it out.

Ed

Charlie Rose
03-02-2005, 01:12 AM
Though about it some more and a snug/lite press fit sleave of similar type metal should work. You'll have to deburr all the threads tho.You cant get a good hook with a ball mill.

Thrud
03-02-2005, 02:42 PM
Ed
Beautiful work. When you gash the tap make sure you get a good hook on it.

elbryant
03-02-2005, 03:15 PM
Thrud,

Thanks
I am still trying to figure out the best way. The taps I have used for wood before have a "0" rake, that is without a hook. That might just be because they weren't made well.

So question #1 is, "How much hook (positive rake) do I want?"

Question #2 is, "How do I do it, considering that all I have is a milling attachment on an Atlas 12?"

As of now, my plan is to set the tap at right angles to the axis of the cutter, and gash the cutter. The further above c/l, the greater the hook, the further below the c/l, the less hook. (Right?)

I think if I use a ball end mill, the hook will be curved, and if I use a straight end mill it will be flat. One responder has mentioned that the latter is fine? Any other thoughts?

Your Old Dog
03-02-2005, 04:47 PM
By the way, while the project came out great the pictures were of no less quality! Did you take'em with a 4x5 digital and an Ascorlight studio strobes? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

(if you ever build a taper attachement for a SB9 would you be sure to photograph and post it? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

elbryant
03-02-2005, 06:16 PM
Old Dog,
Thanks - high praise from a pro!
I use an Olympus Camedia C-5050. I bought it because of the macro capability, among other things.

elbryant
03-02-2005, 06:47 PM
As for the taper attachment......

Isn't that what all these shapers are for that everybody is refurbishing???

Ed

Your Old Dog
03-02-2005, 08:15 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by elbryant:
As for the taper attachment......

Isn't that what all these shapers are for that everybody is refurbishing???

Ed</font>


I don't think so Ed, if so, I'm not sure just how they would figure in. I've been saving everything I can find on subject for referance www.raysstuff.com/shop.htm (http://www.raysstuff.com/shop.htm) bottom right of menu has several pics of various taper attachments. I just ran across the Logan design last week and can't figure out why in the heck the other even exist with the simplicity of the Logan design! If you tackle a taper attachment just make sure and photograph it for me !! good luck......

Ray.........

spkrman15
03-02-2005, 08:40 PM
Thanks Ed for the explanation. Nice work. I was under the impression wood was hard to thread?

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

elbryant
03-02-2005, 11:36 PM
Ray,

That Logan looks a whole lot like the one in my Atlas book. If I could mill a curved slot.... hmmmmmm....... Is there a "prototype" in my future??

Rob,

Different species of wood are like different kinds of material altogether. Some pieces within species are really different, and heartwood vs. sapwood. It isn't nearly so predictable as steel, where the properties are controlled, but given the right wood - like lignum vitae that Wierd had - or beech or hard maple, it works OK. Some, like black walnut, will thread well, but the threads aren't strong.

Ed

JCHannum
03-03-2005, 09:56 AM
Anyone considering making a taper attachment should look at John Foster's article in the Jan/Feb 2004 issue of HSM.

It is an excellent article, and easily adapted to other lathes. It is for a telescopic attachment, which was not offered by South Bend, but a non-telescopic can also be made from the basics of the article.

teastin_techie
04-23-2013, 01:38 PM
I have been looking everywhere for instructions on building one of these, any direction you could point me in would be very greatly appreciated.