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gunsmith
02-26-2005, 06:37 PM
I just had the asessor at the house and because I have turned my hobby into a buisness they now are going to try and charge me town buisness tax. Not a separate shop just from my walk in basement. My hobby was restoring old cars and custom guns. People just kept asking me to do things. Lathes mills and tools will do that for ya. My trade as a pattern maker stood me in good shape as well. I still have my hobby from the same shop. Gotta figure this out and scrape together all the info I can for a battle that I want to win. I'm fed up with people pimping off my back. I pay enough taxes now. Any one else running into this?

IOWOLF
02-26-2005, 07:05 PM
I had a Ins. company deny my claim on a break in, I had 20 some guns stolen among other things. The adjuster said noone has that many guns without being a gunshop, and I did not have a biz.coverage so no payment was made, till I got a lawyer.

uncrichie
02-26-2005, 07:05 PM
No offense intended but, if its a business why shouldn't it be taxed? Uncrichie...

gunsmith
02-26-2005, 07:25 PM
Uncrichie: In answer to your question. What buisness pays tax? The answer none, you do. For every customer that comes into my shop there will be an unforseen charge to cover that tax. You pay it with every purchase you make. In a way your question gave me an answer I hadn't thought of. Unfortunately, most of my customers are my friends and they pay enough tax as well. If I do wind up paying taxes then it will be passed on. It would be nice to avoid that. I do more for my comunity than my tax dollar does anyway. Also, I take no "offense" from your question, it is helping me with a dilemma.

jburstein
02-26-2005, 07:33 PM
How much business do you do? I imagine there is some threshold where you have to start paying taxes. You might check to see if you can get underneath that.

One advantage to paying this tax might be that you can actually get a tax write-off out of it. You can now call all your hobby expenses your electric bill, all your materials, and even things like depreciation on your tools business expenses and subtract them from your earnings. In this way you might keep your earnings below the taxable threshold. Heck, you might even be losing money if you can write off enough stuff.

Another alternative is to do as much of your business as you can for cash or trade.

I wish to point out, however, that I have only a passing aquaintance with tax law. You should check out the legality of any devious schemes yourself.

-Justin

edited for jumbled writing

[This message has been edited by jburstein (edited 02-26-2005).]

DR
02-26-2005, 07:59 PM
Gun',

It's unlikely the town business tax will amount to much. As the other poster mentioned, you may well be under the minimum. I'ts just one of the costs of doing business. We all pay it (those of us in business, that is).

One of your mistakes may have been letting the assessor into your house.

Your next mistake might be trying to fight this taxation. Remember the saying, "you can't fight city hall".

Years ago I was in a similar situation. I got building permits and had work done to make a better place to do my small machining business. Came time for the final inspection and I was informed what I was doing violated city code. I made the mistake of fighting based on the logic that they had inspected prior to construction and had issued the permits. Lots of money down the drain.

Jim Bass
02-26-2005, 10:50 PM
Gumsmith,

I agree with you. Madison WI charges a flat tax once each year on any equipment, tooling, computers and any other items your business owns, regardless if you do one dime of business or not. Add federal, state, and county tax to that and your cut of any business you do gets damn slim. Did not take long for me to realize that is was a waste of my time to try to run a part time business in this city.

Yours, Jim

bob308
02-27-2005, 09:25 AM
well i hate all taxes. tired of buying things for that i can not buy for myself. like health ins. then on the other hand you have the ones that when you tell them your shop rate they act like you are robbing them. you tell them to hit the pike but the taxes are still there.

wierdscience
02-27-2005, 12:13 PM
Simple,vote the bastard out of office!

It may intrest you to know that most asesors now work on a percentage basis,that is percentage of tax revenue recovered.This is a stupid system as it lends to surfdom easily.

Start a tax revolt,it will take up time and money,but you need to start now,before they want to come inside the house and tax your toothbrush.

Take out and ad in the local paper or community webpage,hell post it on the events bulletin board at ciy hall,fight the bastards every way you can,if not for yourself do it for your children.They only get away with it if no one takes a stand.

3 Phase Lightbulb
02-27-2005, 12:22 PM
I just got a $30 excise tax bill for a worthless utility trailer. They have the valuation set at $1200.. I think I paid around $100 for it.

-3Ph

Tinkerer
02-27-2005, 01:10 PM
What they are after is " Personal Property Tax" that is any tangible item you use for business. So all the tools you paid for once and paid taxes on at time of purchase... plan on paying a tax on them every year as long as you have them. Oh that lamp.. phone.. computer.. business use PAY US. Unless you plan to get neck deep with the Gov. either small business loan.. grants or filing for tax exempt status. Keeping a low profile and play in the shadows is simple way to be. Cause once they latch on to you the only way to get them to let go... well come to think of it they never let go. They are like a bad rash always coming back and trying to spread into new areas. I would not mind paying taxes so much if the turds spent the money wisely... but they wipe there arses with it and flush it down the pike. Good luck with your planned battle... but don't be surprised when they jack up every thing they can on you. You best plan would be to say... It's not economically viable at this time to pursue your planned home based business... thank you for your time hopefully in the future things will look better and I'll reexamine the prospects at that time. Like I said GOOD LUCK.

Tim

wierdscience
02-27-2005, 04:43 PM
Just tell them look,I got no business license,no tax number and no sign out front,I'm not in business get off my property.

gunsmith
02-27-2005, 06:56 PM
I advertise the shop in the paper and I have a tax license but no sign out front. In fact you can not tell I even have a business. I am already paying full taxes on my house including the basement. It was the town that wanted me to open my shop for business. They needed a machine shop in this area. The nearest is a day away. My shop was always for my hobby (old cars and machines) and a place for my friends to congregate and lie. I got tired of the machinist trade years ago and now I'm back in it. Maybe I should just kill the advertising, send back the tax number and declare the buisness closed??? Then do to them what they do to me, screw them.

CCWKen
02-27-2005, 11:53 PM
The lack of a sign doesn't lessen the liability of a business. A business is expected to make a profit. Because a business is allowed to "book" taxes, a comunity sets up tax to recoupe it's investment in YOUR business. More street traffic. More electric, water, gas, sewer, etc. Those of us that have a business and pay the taxes will have little simpathy for those that attempt to avoid it. Pay your fair share and get on with business.

lugnut
02-28-2005, 01:00 AM
In my neighborhood you would not be allowed your business (zoned- NON Commercial) suck up and pay! If you let someone run a gun/car business in their basement the next thing they will do is stack their yard full of cannons and tanks and junk cars! Your lucky they don't shut you down completely. Sorry, but there has to be some sort of regulation to keep things under control. Taxing you out of business is one of them.

mtlhe
02-28-2005, 01:49 AM
Really, do you really think that the framers of our great constitution would have ever thought of taxing a man who does some extra work out of his own home.The same home that he already pays property taxes on?And the extra taxes on his phone bill,electric bill,internet connection,television(cable or satellite),water bill.etc.etc.etc.Jesus, this was one of the main reasons all our fore fathers got the hell out of Encland for.And here we are, 250 years later, and the Liberals are back taking our Guns and taxing every bit they can.High tax,high spend.Tell-em that you quit and to go to hell.Then continue on with your congresional birth right to do whatever you want in your own home as it is your castle-4th ammend.U.S.Constitution.Afterall, some of us fought and paid for these rights, not for those to tax us to death.

mtlhe
02-28-2005, 01:49 AM
Really, do you really think that the framers of our great constitution would have ever thought of taxing a man who does some extra work out of his own home.The same home that he already pays property taxes on?And the extra taxes on his phone bill,electric bill,internet connection,television(cable or satellite),water bill.etc.etc.etc.Jesus, this was one of the main reasons all our fore fathers got the hell out of Encland for.And here we are, 250 years later, and the Liberals are back taking our Guns and taxing every bit they can.High tax,high spend.Tell-em that you quit and to go to hell.Then continue on with your congresional birth right to do whatever you want in your own home as it is your castle-4th ammend.U.S.Constitution.Afterall, some of us fought and paid for these rights, not for those to tax us to death.

Saintt
02-28-2005, 02:08 AM
The government makes lots of rules for different reasons...some for good reasons, some just for the money. You cannot fight city hall, so dont waste your time and life trying. The one thing I learned, and frankly it should be a mantra...FLY UNDER THE RADAR!!!!

Make it go away quickly without making a sound...either by NOT being a business, or by paying your city tax quietly.

Dont learn this the hard way. This deck is stacked against you. Your happiness is way more important than crap like this.

Tinkerer
02-28-2005, 12:27 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lugnut:
In my neighborhood you would not be allowed your business (zoned- NON Commercial) suck up and pay! If you let someone run a gun/car business in their basement the next thing they will do is stack their yard full of cannons and tanks and junk cars! Your lucky they don't shut you down completely. Sorry, but there has to be some sort of regulation to keep things under control. Taxing you out of business is one of them. </font>


Geez... lugnut sell or buy anything on the internet from your home lately? If so your conducting business out of your home. Buy things from other states online? I'm quite sure you ponie up the state and local sales tax on those purchases right. Your " Non Commercial Zoning " well it does apply to lets say Wally World wanting to drop a outlet in the hood... however any land owner has the RIGHT to profit off their land.. I.E. run a home based business. So if your neighbor wanted to sell tanks and cannons... guess what he can as long as they do not block egress from your property. You don't like how it looks.. Well you have the right not to LOOK or place a fence to block your view. Just remember after they do as you'd like ( Taxing them out of business ) they could end up on Public Dole. Then they have to up YOUR Taxes and that might taxes you out of your property. Taxes were levied originally to benefit the public... but now the public is taxed to benefit the Government we have come full circle. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

Tim

jkilroy
02-28-2005, 06:58 PM
Yep, good ole personal property tax. I have several rental units. I pay about $15 a year tax on a dishwasher and another $15 on every fridge. How long does a decent fridge last? Hell, I know I have paid WAY more in taxes on the damn things than I paid for them.

mtlhe has it on the nose. The founders of this nation would be appalled (sp?) at the rampant "Taxation without representation" going on in this country. Lets consider buying and owning one of these dishwasher for ten years.

Retail price: $152
Sales Tax: $10.64
Property Tax: $150 ($15 per year)

Total Cost: $312.64

Of course this doesn't factor in the extra cash I have to make in order to pay federal and state income taxes FIRST.


------------------
James Kilroy

Amity
02-28-2005, 07:23 PM
Ummm, is anyone depreciating that dishwasher? If not why is it on your taxes? If it is then you need to redo your math?

gunsmith
02-28-2005, 07:27 PM
It is nice to see replies from civil servants and other government employees begging me for more money by way of taxes. You sort of give you some of the pat questions and answers which will help me with this matter. This along with replies from those that just would not fight because they are too afraid of causing ripples in the pool. You also have those that sit back and let others do the fighting for them and then take advantage of the results. You know somthing, I like Bush and I'm not even American. He stood up for what was right despite those hidding in the dark corners and barking. I'm not afraid of loosing because someday somebody smarter than me will win. Or just maybe I will win. Right now I am just collecting ideas and amo.

Jim Caudill
02-28-2005, 07:42 PM
Where I live, we have a threshold of $10,000 before any taxes kick-in. I still have to file a tax return on my "personal property" every year (only because I have a business - regular folk don't have to) and when the value of my business equipment exceeds $10,000 then I will have to start paying. So far, it has been pretty easy to keep my business equipment below that threshold.

[This message has been edited by Jim Caudill (edited 02-28-2005).]

Your Old Dog
02-28-2005, 07:45 PM
Gunsmith, Saiint has the best answer. Don't let your ego cause you to want to fight an uphill battle. My guess is you ain't no kid and this kind of aggrevation only shortens what time we do have.

If it were me, I'd rename the business. I'd call it Stealth Gunsmithing and work under the radar. I wouldn't feel guilty about it either. The screwdrivers you use were likely brought to this country on a ship that paid dozens of differant taxes on the cargo, fuel, excise and the truck drivers who hauled it and the employees putting the stuff on the shelf were taxed for the gas that drove them to work so that could earn more money and pay more taxes. I need a liberal to tell me when enough is enough? We won't be happy till everyone can stay home on wellfare and unemploymet.

Saiint's right, if it were me I'd drop down to just under the radar and until they can tax your for having too much friends and neighbors then you'll be all right. Yardsales, gunshows and flea markets are next! We don't want the government to miss a chance to punish us some more for making this country work. Anyone don't like it they should call 1 800 282-2882 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 02-28-2005).]

wierdscience
02-28-2005, 10:07 PM
I have heard the arguement before about increased traffic,drainage,sewage blah,blah,blah,well bulls---!

Walmart opend a mega-low mart here,put nearly all the family owned stores in town out of business,this resulted in 100+ jobs gone overnight.
They moved in,new roads,new water tower,new sewer lift station.Increased traffic,lower sales reciepts for those who stayed in business and a net loss of jobs.

Incedently none of the construction jobs or the site prep work was hired to local companies,this was all handled by Walmart's contractor from Benton,Ark.

Yet,they pay not one thin dime in taxes.No property taxes,no inventory taxes and they don't pay squat for wages.

Meanwhile Mom and Pop are eating dog food so they can keep thier employee(s) on because they can't stand the idea of closing down and laying them off.

Am I mad at Walmart?No,why should I be,all they did was take advantage of the system.Who am I mad at? Our city F---ers,um..Fathers for being so stupid.

I'm not saying we should punish Walamrt or restrict thier business,I'm just saying the a--holes that be should make things fair.Level the playing field that's all I ask.
What happened to the days when a man went into business by hanging his shingle and providing a service or product,then whether he made it or went bust was determined by service to a customer or quality of his product?
I'll tell you what happened,somebody decided to ignore the constitution and punish sucess while rewarding failure.

Sadly today 40% of the voting public recieves a check from the goverment in one form or another so there is little chance of things changing.

I wish people would wake up to that fact that the government is there for our benift,not that of the government.We are the reason for thier existance,not the other way around.
While we are on the subject,why is it that a foriegn owned company like Toyota or Nissan can move in and our leaders hand them whatever they want on a silver platter at our expense,but if an American company wants to expand they get the cold shoulder?

Rant mode off:

Tinker2
03-01-2005, 04:35 PM
If you want to fight taxes. Get a law passed to make the people who
tax us, responsible legally & financially for how they spend our money.

RAD1
03-01-2005, 05:01 PM
Heck yard sales are already taxed in the town I live in. $5.00 a pop and only 3 allowed a year. CONTROL FREAKS AND MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!!!

IOWOLF
03-01-2005, 06:33 PM
KC ,Mo. has the same thing for G sales, but I dont understand the limit, you would think the city/county would want all the revenue they can get,ergo the rule in the first place.

bob308
03-02-2005, 09:56 AM
no we dont need more laws passed we need a lot of laws repealed. it is interesting when there is talk of a tax cut. everyone cries we can not aford it. but they dont ask if we can aford an incress. remember one thing it is not their money.

IOWOLF
03-02-2005, 10:04 AM
Does the Boston tea party sound familair?

madman
03-02-2005, 12:19 PM
Just tell them youre staying a hobby shop. Then tell them to f.... off get off your property or they will be treated as a burgalar and shot several times. Or you can borrow moose and his two mean sisters and they will eat him. then good riddance to a nother piece of sh..

MTNGUN
03-02-2005, 06:59 PM
A suggestion: no one can come into your home without a warrant, and NEVER EVER invite a government gonad into your home. You can't deny that you have a home business, because they know that you have a tax license, but you don't have to tell them exactly what equipment you have. Play along by listing a minimum amount of equipment with a minimal value.

I feel that my moral obligation to be honest does not extend to people who are in the process of robbing me.

wierdscience
03-02-2005, 08:34 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MTNGUN:

I feel that my moral obligation to be honest does not extend to people who are in the process of robbing me.</font>


Priceless,truly priceless http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

rbregn
03-02-2005, 11:17 PM
If you opened your hobbie into a business for the city. Now they want to tax you. I would just raise my rates so the city can pay the taxes themselfs.The only way to beat them is to "tax them" so to speak.

lightswitch
03-03-2005, 10:19 PM
revolt!, start a revolution!!!!!

jkilroy
03-03-2005, 10:45 PM
Amity, do you think the county actually gives a flying flip about actual value? I have been going round and round with them for two years on this issue. The bottom line is that they know it will cost me more to fight it than pay it, so I am screwed.

------------------
James Kilroy

gunsmith
03-10-2005, 07:40 PM
Just getting over the flu. Enjoyed all the replies along with some very good advice. Maybe your right . The overall seems to be to duck under the radar and lie to those who think they are in power. A couple of more days of flu and maybe I will feel well enough to prepare my tax appeal. A good lie requires more work than the truth. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

JS
03-10-2005, 09:10 PM
Taxes, The constitution only allows for two types of them direct and apportionment based on a census. As for laws governing the individuals in office they are required by law to have a bond , just in case they screw up. When an elected official act out of the bounds of his authority, he is personally liable, it does not matter is the official is unaware of the limitations on his authority he is still liable.

Not legal advice just my two cents worth