View Full Version : Can I offer some constructive criticism for board members?

Your Old Dog
03-23-2005, 06:34 AM
Because I'm a baby boomer and they needed the room, I was the first kid in the California school system to graduate with out having passed an English class in 4 years. I never learned how to spell, never thought I'd need it. So believe me when I tell you this suggestion has nothing to do with grammer.

Some folks who make post forget to hit the "Enter" key every 5 or 7 sentences. This gives me a block of letters and words that literally fills my screen. I then have to drag a pencil across my screen so as not to loose my place while reading it.

I understand that paragraph breaks are made at the turn of a new thought. But they also got this "artistic liscense" clause in the English law books you can press into action if your work is hard to follow! I enjoy this board a lot. I like to read every new post and all the answers as I'm still learning all this. But some of the replys are awful hard to follow without paragraph breaks ("Enter" key being hit twice)

Now I expect some flammers here but most of you folks are witty enough that they should at least be funny http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I can handle it (I think). If I've dangled any participles here in front of you I want you to know it wasn't meant to taunt you, just my ignorance bleeding onto the page!

On another note: I found out on another board that someone thought my screen name of Your Old Dog was rude. It isn't meant to be. It's homage to the most loyal friend I ever had, a big black Lab named Phreddy. He was a Lab's lab! Everything I ain't! He been running around in my head now for over 13 years.

Thanks guys, for everything...........

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 03-23-2005).]

03-23-2005, 06:42 AM
Ray..to break up sentances we just use more of these http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-23-2005, 06:45 AM
I always thought that your name meant what you meant it to mean. (How's that for convoluted?) I have small poster in my office which says,

"Be the person your dog thinks you are."

03-23-2005, 06:47 AM
OkayIgotthepictureyouwantustobreakuplongsectionsof texttomakeiteasiertoreadright? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-23-2005, 07:06 AM
How rude! LOL

I use to hate working for someone else, now I work for everyone else!

03-23-2005, 07:32 AM
THANKS i been wondering how you did that? that is the first new thing i've learned today, but it's still early 5:55 .
thanks for the tip Hal

03-23-2005, 08:12 AM
Nothing wrong woth posting that. Probably will help a few on the board, and it was posted in the spirit of friendship, cooperation, and good will.


03-23-2005, 08:52 AM


Allan Waterfall
03-23-2005, 09:10 AM

Thanks for bringing this up again,I put a request in a few months ago on a similar line.

A page in a book isn't too bad,but on a screen a long post without any line breaks is hard to follow,well it is for me.
The same goes for long links and big pictures where you need to scroll from side to side,I just ignore posts like that,it's too hard for me to follow without feeling frustrated at losing track.


Frank Ford
03-23-2005, 11:01 AM
Ray, I absolutely agree with you. I think it's basically presumptive at best (downright rude at worst) to write in long run-on sentences with no punctuation or capitalization.

While I'm ranting, I'll bring up that adolescent phonetic abbreviation (you know, "how r u i m fine"). I expect even the perpetrators of that "style" don't actually like to read it.

I have no problem with "loose" grammar, typos, or misspelled words. After all, we're bordering on the stream-of-consiousness at times as we post our thoughts.

I just heard that in my area there are well over a hundred different languages spoken in residents' homes - a good reminder that lots of e-mailers and forum posters are not native speakers of our crazy language. I think we should cut those folks some slack, too.

A quick ancedote -

Because of my Web site, FRETS.COM, I get lots of e-mail with questions about instrument repair, etc.

I wish I'd kept the best one - it started out:

"im jus a pore college student can u help me fix my own guitar"

Poor student, I'd say, for sure! Fortunately, I was able to stifle the reply I first typed suggesting that he put the guitar down and go back to his remedial English class. . .

03-23-2005, 11:05 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by precisionworks:



03-23-2005, 12:21 PM



Paul Alciatore
03-23-2005, 12:59 PM

No problem here. I agree that a long post with no breaks is hard to read and I frequently skip them or leave them till I have more time.

I always proof read my messages before submitting them. No end to the errors I find. And I still find more when it's posted. Plus, I often find ways to condense what I said. I tend to be too verbose.

Two things I wish the board had are a spelling checker and a serif font for displaying the messages. Both would make reading easier.

As for the style of some members, they are machinists, not English teachers or authors. I think tolerance is in order. We all have our strong and weak points.

TIP: When I have to read a long post with no breaks, I follow along with the mouse pointer and use the mouse to highlight the line I just finished. That helps me keep my place.

Paul A.

Your Old Dog
03-23-2005, 01:10 PM
Thanks guys for not letting me down http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I knew that some would agree and that even the flamers would be funny about it! When I've heard from Bill the Nazi I'll know we've come full circle and completed the thread!

WeirdScience takes the 1st place bell. I wasn't expecting that one. Nothing short of brilliant http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Any takers on the participle I left dangling and twisting in the wind? Haven't heard from a few of the brighter bulbs on this forum yet! I'm sure more enlightment awaits the patient!

I was hoping you'd all take it in the spirt it was meant and I believe you all have. Thanks again.

03-23-2005, 01:42 PM

Allow me to throw my two cents into the mix. I can never resist an opportunity to rant. Thanks, Ray...

I think Ray (Your Old Dog) is right on target. I don't understand why folks disregard basic grammar, spelling and punctuation rules when posting on discussion boards or sending e-mails. At the top of my list are people who never capitalize the personal pronoun "I." Is holding down the shift key while typing the "I" key too much to ask? Does it really require that much effort?

I have news for all of you illiterate cyber geeks. Ignoring basic grammar, spelling and punctuation rules does not make you appear cool or tech-savvy. You only come across as ignorant and lazy.

Have a nice day,

P.S. I'm sure someone will find an error or two in my post. If you do, I say, "Hats off to you, my friend." My point is not every post must be flawless. I'd just like to read postings that appear they come from the keyboard of some reasonably intelligent beings.

03-23-2005, 02:02 PM
Hi There,

Well, English isn't my strong suit. I too was push out of high school with a "D" in English after taking summer school in an attempt to bring up my grade.

I whole heartedly agree with your premise. I find posts without paragraph breaks tedious and hard to read.

I have read your post several times and I don't see the dangling participle. But I do see the improper verb usage towards the end (shouldn't it be: He's been running... or He has been running...?).

I'm not trying to be too picky but you did ask for it.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-

03-23-2005, 03:18 PM

If you're going to write a post addressing issues of writing, your credibility
will be significantly enhanced if you learned to spell grammar.

Next, take this little test: pronounce the following list of words aloud.


Now ask yourself, "How do I spell the verb that is the opposite of win/find?"

One response is a reply. More than one are replies, not replys.

While many posters do engage in a lot of flim-flam, that hardly makes them

"I never learned how to spell, never thought I'd need it." (Apparently sentence
construction fell into that very broad unneeded category as well.)

Do you realize just how lame that excuse is? Lots of folks make the same
excuse for:

the sciences

Since those subjects comprise the bulk of high school instruction (or at least
they did back when the schools still attempted to teach), just exactly what
did you expect you would need? Shop, gym, driver's ed and health? Was
football a critical life skill you expected to use daily in your adult career?
Did you think they taught all that other stuff just to annoy you?

Your suggestion to separate paragraphs is a good one and should be taken
to heart. Paul's suggestion of proofreading one's writing before hitting the
'send' button is excellent as well (and taught in every high school English
class I ever attended). I have to take issue with his recommendation to give
the machinists on the board a break and excuse them for poor writing. The
implication is that machinists are too dumb to learn more than one skill. I
don't think Paul meant it that way but that's how it comes across to me.

Regards, Marv

Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things

03-23-2005, 05:36 PM
I agree with you Old dog. Another thing i find difficult is when people post pictures that are wider then my screen. I spend an extra 15 minutes scrolling across the screen trying to follow the descriptions or information posted.

Personally i find that more agravating, then the seperation of paragraphs. I still read the threads. I love pictures. They help me understand 100 times faster then a description.

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

03-23-2005, 05:38 PM
mklotz -

Where did you go to school? Around here, those things are college level subjects; and are only used in formal communication! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Seriously though -

Watch the CAPS LOCK key. People read using the shapes of the words, and when it's all in caps, it's much more difficult to read.

Spell check your posts. I don't know about I.E. on Windows (I avoid it), but Safari has an option to spell check while you are typing - misspelled words show up with a red underline.

Don't post images that are too large - some of us are still on dial-up internet connections, and it takes forever to download. Likewise, images that are too wide mess up the pagination, making all the posts hard to read.

Reread your post to make sure it makes sense - unclear posts tend to generate more confused posts.

Just my $0.02...

03-23-2005, 05:44 PM

Hoffman in Warner Robins Ga

[This message has been edited by hoffman (edited 03-23-2005).]

Your Old Dog
03-23-2005, 06:04 PM
I hold your abilities in high regard, both as a machinist and as a writer. If there's a chuckle in your response to my post I'm not getting it. I admit my interpretation of your writing may be clouded because you didn't notice the last line in my first paragraph and suggested I should be more capable in that regard. I'm not a very bright bulb Marv and am openly admitting it. I don't like to call myself stupid but I suppose others might. I was just hoping for some paragraph breaks along the way in the post that we read. I notice that you use them to very good advantage.

I am unable to understand where you're going with the question as to moose, goose, noose and loose. It's beyond my grasp. Nor do I get "How do I spell the verb that is the opposite of win/find?" As I mentioned in my first post, I am lucky to have ever graduated High School. I did understand my incorrect use of the plural form of reply that you pointed out. I've done that a good many times I suppose and now I've learned my lesson for sure!

I'm unsure why you didn't notice the explanation points I used when I opened the door for "flammers". I did not mean anything biting or nasty by the line.

The line "I never learned how to spell, never thought I'd need it." was simply written in a "conversational and homey" style. It accurately reflects how I speak, especially when in comfortable surroundings.

On the spelling, I'll disagree with you openly about that. While I am not a great successful American, the list of successful folks who couldn't spell is endless. Potato "e"

I'm a lunch bucket type guy. I know who I am and I'm comfortable with me. If I haven't learned all this in the past 58 years it won't likely happen in the foreseeable future. I respect and envy most of you for your minds.

Sorry I got your goat, it wasn't my intention. I should have been aware that we all read these post thru our own set of life experiance filters. My message must be carrying someone else's baggage along with it for some of you and that's unfortuate.


PS. Now, if you can allow me some levity here I'd like get the forum back to a pleasant place it us supposed to be by signing with this disclaimer!

Don't try this kind of spelling or grammer at home, I am an un-trained professional!

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 03-23-2005).]

03-23-2005, 06:10 PM
Dude, your on the wrong forum. Or, maybe I am. I got tired of folks looking down their noses at replies and offers for help on the other forum. I seldom go there anymore except to read a few posts. I still post occasionally but that's rare.

There's nothing worse than a snute that can't appreciate a straight forward answer in common unedited langwage. If you want to grade everyone's response for structure and pros, I suggest you take up teaching and get paid for it. Lay off literary criticisms or requests for special attention.

Maybe the lack of understanding resides with the reader. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

03-23-2005, 06:14 PM
I understand where Old Dog is coming from with needing to separate paragraphs. I also agree with Rob that it is difficult to read posts where the pictures are too wide for the screen and you spend most of your time scrolling back and forth to read the associated descriptions.

Problem is, I speak for at least one of us who are just learning how to post pictures, and there isn't a preview option to my knowledge so that you can check the size of your picture before posting.

By trial and ERROR, I've found that ~450-500 pixels wide seems to work well for me.

I disagree with those of you who want proofreading and grammar checks. Occassionally, I have to read a post twice to figure out the point someone was trying to get across -- big deal.

The one thing I love about HSM is it's a great place to come, hang out, and learn. I consider it a very friendly and welcoming environment; people don't need to be grammatically correct to pass on interesting information and exchange ideas.

I think we all COULD make much better posts if we wanted to make it a priority; Instead, my priority is learning as much as possible from the years of experience this board offers, enjoying the off-topic posts for pleasure, and "being there" for those of us who are going through very different or difficult times in our life.

This was the first forum I'd EVER visited and enjoyed enough to come back to on a consistent basis. I now also visit PM often (after reading about it here), but mainly for the technical aspect. It worries me to think I need to spend more time proofreading my posts to avoid annoying or offending anyone.

03-23-2005, 06:18 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Allan Waterfall:

....and big pictures where you need to scroll from side to side,I just ignore posts like that,it's too hard for me to follow without feeling frustrated at losing track.


I use firefox with the "Image zoom" extension and if the image in this forum is to big and stretches all the posts just "zoom out" on the image and the text will follow.


03-23-2005, 06:25 PM
Hmmm, I didn't get the impression that Ray was looking down on anyone. I thought that he was just politely pointing out that no breaks make long posts harder/slower to read (much like all caps).

03-23-2005, 06:40 PM
Wow Marv ain't yous full uv yurself. Don't be such a dik.

Jim Bass
03-23-2005, 06:41 PM
Hey Marv,
In your post you wrote the following: Paul's suggestion of proofreading one's writing before hitting the 'send' button is excellent as well (and taught in every high school English class I ever attended).

What should those of us that went to a school before there was a "Send" button do? A lot of us were just happy when we got new pencils for school.

Relax, this is in jest, have some fun here.

Yours, Jim

John Stevenson
03-23-2005, 06:47 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by precisionworks:


Our dog has the right outlook on life.
If you can't eat it or f#~k it, pi$$ on it

03-23-2005, 06:52 PM
This really isn't a classroom or one-on-one teaching. I see it as a lecture hall--Where you put up with the smacking gum chewers, belchers, tooters, paper shufflers and try to make out what the heavily foreign accented lecturer is trying to get across. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Read the posts as best you can. Ask questions. I think we all can get more out of it than you suspect. We be smart, you know?

03-23-2005, 07:36 PM
I see from looking back at some of my posts that I'm TOTALLY GUILTY AS CHARGED!
Seems to me when I changed from IE to Mozilla, I lost the ability to double space, or indent- not sure about this though- I'll have to check- don't know if I am mixing it up with something else- maybe I am.
Welll that sentence is a little broken up http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

I will try to condense my posts if they look like they're going to turn out to be too long, and I'll try to put more and/or larger breaks in. Ray, I'm not taking any offence at your suggestion, I agree with you, and I also acnowledge that I am an offender often enough. Make that too often.

As far as pictures go, a size of 640 x 480 is a common one, and if it's saved as a jpg it won't be a very large file. It will load quickly to photobucket, and also onto your screen when you check the posting. I may be wrong here, but I believe you can also post an 800 x 600 without it being resized by photobucket, as long as it's not a bmp. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I would suggest to anyone who wants to post a picture, but isn't sure of the size, to spend a little time with their photo manipulating program to find the resize or resample function, and get acquainted with that part of it. Open your picture, use the resize function, then save the pic as a jpg in a separate folder which you create to keep pictures that you want to post. Use the save as function, and don't apply the change to the original picture. That way you aren't screwing up your original, it's still there full size as it was before.
I've seen a lot of digital camera pictures posted that are way too large for posting, but may not be too large for your own viewing on your own computer. You won't be using up much room on your drive to keep this separate folder with the shrunken pics in it, and it'll be easier and less annoying for all of us to view them without having to scroll a lot.

I'll make a final comment on photo manipulation programs- if they are too complicated to use, or are not fast, or either don't have a resize function or are way too full of things they can do- then get rid of it and get a more suitable one. Nothing bugs me more than having to wait for a fully loaded program to load up, just so I can do one or two things to a picture. It also bugs me to have to click eighteen freakin' buttons just to get one or two things done to a pic. Personally, I use Irfanview, since it's fast, easy, not too full of functions you'll never use, doesn't make you jump through hoops to get the job done, and has a very low glitch factor.

Enter, enter, space, space, see y'all later.

03-23-2005, 07:38 PM
Ok, there I go. I can enter, enter to double space, but I can't indent. Hmm.

Now I see nobody can indent, but everyone can double space. That really does make it easier.

[This message has been edited by darryl (edited 03-23-2005).]

03-23-2005, 07:48 PM
&gt;&gt; There's nothing worse than a snute that can't appreciate a straight forward answer in common unedited langwage.

Actually, there is - the snute in question could be your boss! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

I think the point being made is that answers are appreciated, but easy-to-read answers are appreciated more.

&gt;&gt;I see it as a lecture hall--Where you put up with the smacking gum chewers, belchers, tooters, paper shufflers and try to make out what the heavily foreign accented lecturer is trying to get across.

Well, I was once in a biology lecture, when the lecturer abruptly stopped, looked down, and said "Sir, if you must insist upon the mastication of that artificial fruity substance, I must insist you to do it elsewhere" - with the PA mic still on, so the entire class heard it. The unfortunate student in question was never seen with gum again... (no, it wasn't me - I can't stand gum, never could; it makes my jaw muscles hurt after about 5 minutes).

03-23-2005, 08:35 PM
One of the people I work with has two Phd's. I don't think he is particularly bright, but I respect his academic qualifications. He also does not know what end of a hammer to pound a nail with. (literally)

One of my good friends is probably the most intelligent person I know. He can fix or make just about anything, and can carry on an articulate conversation about anything from world politics to the human genome. He never finished high school.

My point is that there are a lot of people on this board who have great knowledge and experience and share it willingly. I for one don't get my knickers in a twist when I see a few spelling and/or grammar mistakes on a posting. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from masters.

I agree with Your Old Dog. It'd be way more gooder if'n we broked up ourn posts with more blank lines an smaller pichures...

Peter Sanders
03-23-2005, 08:58 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
OkayIgotthepictureyouwantustobreakuplongsectionsof texttomakeiteasiertoreadright? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif


No, more like THIS.



charlie coghill
03-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Boomer, Please explain to me how you get/use the imiage zoom feature of firefox.

Since I have started using the computer, I don't realy mind writting before I hated to write as I would have to rewrite the letter each time, and yes I am lazy.

I can deleate or move sentences around with out rewritting the whole thing. Also I use the dictionary a whole lot more.

When I write something on the board and reread it, sometimes it does not make any sense to me either. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

By and far this has got to be the best bunch of ppeople. When you are needing something and some one says that I have that and you can have it for the postage, that is the best. Thanks guys. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-23-2005, 09:30 PM
Ray! your point about the spacing is well taken. I try to do this, but sometimes when the ideas flow we slip up a bit.

Unfortunately in making this helpfull sugestion an ugly animal that lurks on this bbs and probably others too, has reared it's head again.

I haven't been here all that long but I have seen this spelling and grammer topic come up at least once before.

View points are made others get ofended tempers flare and an other wise very good place to visit goes to custard.

Come on guys kiss and make up.

Actually I think those who can spell and do grammer correctly may be disadvantaged because some how it gives them difficulty in reading posts from others who are not so good.

I am not that good at these things and don't suffer from the problem.

I think the bbs is better off having people feel they can post there idea's with out fear of retrobution for there spelling and grammer.


And I'm not going to apologise for my spelling and grammer either.


[This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 03-23-2005).]

03-23-2005, 10:03 PM
Click on "tools"
"get more extensions"
"all extensions"
Image zoom is on page 10

[This message has been edited by Boomer (edited 03-23-2005).]

Paul Alciatore
03-23-2005, 10:23 PM

I apologize if I offended. I certainly did not intend to. Nor do I think that anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter, is incapable of learning better grammar. I think the guys and gals here are among the smartest. I was only saying that a certain amount of tolerance is needed whenever two or more people congergate.

I am here to learn and to share whatever small amount of knowledge and experience I may have with others. This is a great group. Ask about anything and someone will jump in with something. Some advise is excellent and some if not. So what. We are all trying. I learn things here every day. We could all improve in some manner. But, I still think we need to be tolerant of others. Basic manners. My mommie taught me that. And she was never wrong. Not as long as she had the paddle anyway.

Peace and love to all,

Paul A.

03-23-2005, 10:26 PM
very interesting thread. one thing i actually came away with is to separate paragraphs better. i know i'm guilty of that one.

i did want to clarify one thing though. my lack of capitalization is not due to ignorance, i'm just lazy.

andy b.

03-23-2005, 10:27 PM
"I respect a man who knows how to spell a word more than one way". (Mark Twain)

There are so many good technical people who can't spell that it's almost a mark of distinction. My accountant wife can't spell half the words on a grocery list but her common sense and clarity of thought more than make up for that.

The chief at our plant can't spell either. He's just a machinist, 1st class marine engineer and 1st class stationary power engineer.

I respect the person who can do it but not spell it more than I do the one who has it the other way around.

charlie coghill
03-23-2005, 10:36 PM
Hay!I just learned something. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Thanks Boomer.

J Tiers
03-23-2005, 11:16 PM
I don't know about any others, but with regard to the proofreading....

I can read my own writing until I am blue in the face, and I will NOT spot errors. It certainly is odd how they pop right up into view immediately after I push the "submit" button, however.

I like the PM site's new feature of 24 hour editing with no

"this message was edited by the dumb bunny who screamed, yelled, swore, or just couldn't spell, was really, really wrong, and knows it now, or wants to get rid of the ignorant and disrespectful thing he said"

message at the bottom. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

After that 24 hour grace period on the PM site, there is no going back and deleting everything in a fit of pique, either. It stays after 24 hours.

Kinda nice.

03-23-2005, 11:48 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I can read my own writing until I am blue in the face, and I will NOT spot errors. It certainly is odd how they pop right up into view immediately after I push the "submit" button, however. </font>


I know that. And, scrambling to find the edit button before 20,000 people see it. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-24-2005, 01:51 AM
Listen up guys, I can spell most things including drill bit,but I cant'sharpen one.
We all have our weak points,mainly on cut off tools,but the knowledgable chaps seem to know enough to get the message into my little brain.
I indent because the ýippee books and stick books we read in Nam were printed that way.
All the way, Man. Up there 173AB(Oz.) in 65.
Regards to all.

03-24-2005, 01:52 AM
You gotta go with the flow and dont get caught in the onslaught. I find these type postings humorous and not unpleasant. Some people are far too serious over simple harmless things. Damn i ran outa beer. I guess its vodka cooler times. (old ladys girlfriends left them here)

03-24-2005, 01:53 AM
You gotta go with the flow and dont get caught in the onslaught. I find these type postings humorous and not unpleasant. Some people are far too serious over simple harmless things. Damn i ran outa beer. I guess its vodka cooler times. (old ladys girlfriends left them here)

03-24-2005, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the original post it is something that will help all of us to be better understood.

"It is not our place to judge just because God saw fit not to bestow an equal intelligence on everyone"

The world would be a better place if we all would keep this thought, especially when you get that feeling you want to choke the s#@t out of someone.

03-24-2005, 07:36 AM
English is not the offical language in the US,neither is any other because we don't have an offical language.

With that in mind I don't see how anyone in this country can beat someone else over the head about not using 'proper english'.

The editor of the local paper is a spelling and grammer snob,even though he has let no less than five misspelled front page headlines leave the press in the past year.

I picked up the paper one Sunday and there glaring back was an article on the first amendment with the phrase 'In Gode we trust' for the headline.

He caught flak from nearly everyone in the community over that one,only this guy has made a real a-- of himself berating everyone else's spelling and grammer.He tried to blame it on the pressmen,both of which said the paper had better cough up some money if they were to be editors http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I have said it before,I am a machinist,not an english teacher.I try,but don't always suceed in spelling or saying things correctly.
However,I read the Wallstreet Journal,USA Today and The Times Picayune and most of the articles contain errors in spelling and grammer that even I can see.
These articles are supposedly written by people who have at a minimum a BS in Journalism.
Maybe I should apply for a job? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-24-2005, 07:43 AM
Ha...I personally don't give a rats butt if you all spell something rong http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif It sure isn't worth two pages of comments!

03-24-2005, 09:34 AM
Trying to use proper spelling, grammar, sentence construction, etc. is a worthwhile endevor. ...criticizing and belittling
someone who doesn't is NOT.

That's my story ...

03-24-2005, 10:36 AM
Hi Guys:
Grammer is spelled "grammar". http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif Why do we worry about that (grammar) on a machinist's BBS? Thanks--Mike.

Gary Helmick
03-24-2005, 10:37 AM
To damphmann,

I don't know about you, but I was not a good student in high school.

For one thing this english language (it just took me 1 min. to look up how to spell language) sucks and all of us are not linguists.

If that offend you I guess that is your problem.

So, to you, I feel sorry becaues you are not accepting of some of us that are not.

Come to my shop and I will show you what I have done by not being lazy or a good speller.

Gary Helmick

p.s And by the way I am not afraid to sign my real name.

03-24-2005, 11:32 AM
"I have no respect" said Thomas Jefferson, "for a man who can think of only one way to spell a word."

Duct Taper
03-24-2005, 11:43 AM
Words and grammar are fluff. The underlying meaning is the substance.

Don't kill the messenger.

03-24-2005, 11:54 AM
Proof reading made simple. Read forward for content and backwards for mistakes. Works every time.


John B

03-24-2005, 01:09 PM
I, for one, have been an English teacher. So with all due respect (read - not much) I find the original post completely out of line. Many of this bbs's best and brightest are hampered and maybe even intimidated by the pressure to write a "will be graded" piece of work. One of our best contributers was driven off over two years ago by just such a posting, albeit somewhat more mean spirited in tone. Let the posters post, let us lurkers read what we can of it. Dont try to grade it - and if you do, keep your conclusions to yourself.

Gary Helmick
03-24-2005, 01:26 PM
Thanks decoy91288 for putting it the way I wish I could.
Gary Helmick

03-24-2005, 02:26 PM
Decoy, I fail to see a relationship between your comments and Y. O. Dog's 'original post'. He wasn't critiqueing or 'grading' anyone's posts, but simply advocating breaking up long, continuous blocks of prose into more easily read, smaller blocks (i.e. paragraphs).

I saw nothing stated or implied in his original posting that a reasonable person should construe as discouragement to making an input.

Granted, subsequent entries did (in my view) take a tone that might tend to discourage someone sensitive about his/her writing skills from making an input.

03-24-2005, 02:38 PM
After reading Gary's response to my post I decided to review what I had written to find what could have offended him so much. I still can't quite put my finger on the truly offensive material.

I still stand behind my opinions. Is it really too much to expect folks to capitalize the pronoun "I" or add punctuation to the end of a sentence in an effort to make reading posts easier for all of us? I certainly hope not.

Respectfully submitted,


Oh, Gary, my real name is Marty, but I think Damphmann has a better ring to it-- especially in the realm of model engineering.

Gary Helmick
03-24-2005, 03:45 PM

I guess that it is I have been so critizied over the years about spelling, grammar, punctuation and contents of a note, that I was taking it out on a person that is just that.

I mean no disrespect, but the way I feel is that this is a board about machining and not english and it's inconsistencies.

Gary Helmick

Your Old Dog
03-24-2005, 04:01 PM
Decoy, I must say, I don't understand what it is about So believe me when I tell you this suggestion has nothing to do with grammer. that you refuse to understand and/or believe? I simply asked for paragraph breaks every now and then. I tried to put a humourous tone to it so as not to offend anyone.

However, Torker is absolutly correct in an earlier volley, life's too short for all this. You want to hit the "enter" key a couple of times every now and then, then do it. If not, don't.

Lets let the thread die folks. It's accomplished it's goal of introducing everyone to the concept of paragraph breaks every now and then http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif All post to this point are very easy to read. Life is good!

Ray Swan (failure at the english language but evidentally adept at waking up the forum!) Flammers - you were great and fun!

3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 04:07 PM
0a 49 20 74 68 69 6e 6b 20 49 20 72 65 61 64
20 74 68 65 20 66 69 72 73 74 20 66 65 77 20
6d 65 73 73 61 67 65 73 20 69 6e 20 74 68 69
73 20 74 68 72 65 61 64 20 61 6e 64 20 69 20
74 68 6f 75 67 68 74 20 74 6f 0a 6d 79 73 65
6c 66 2e 2e 2e 20 57 68 79 20 69 73 20 73 6f
6d 65 6f 6e 65 20 63 6f 6d 70 6c 61 69 6e 69
6e 67 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 70 61 72 61 67 72
61 70 68 73 3f 20 20 57 65 6c 6c 2c 20 68 65
72 65 20 69 73 0a 73 6f 6d 65 74 68 69 6e 67
20 74 6f 20 63 6f 6d 70 6c 61 69 6e 20 61 62
6f 75 74 2e 2e 20 4e 6f 74 20 65 76 65 72 79
6f 6e 65 20 63 61 6e 20 72 65 61 64 20 48 45
58 2e 2e 2e 20 3a 29 0a 0a 2d 33 50 68 0a 0a

03-24-2005, 04:43 PM
3 Phase -

No, but I can! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

EDIT: 4A 75 73 74 20 43 75 72 69 6F 75 73 20 2D 20 48
6F 77 20 6C 6F 6E 67 20 64 69 64 20 69 74 20 74
61 6B 65 20 79 6F 75 20 74 6F 20 64 6F 20 74 68
61 74 3F

[This message has been edited by hammerhead74000 (edited 03-24-2005).]

J Tiers
03-24-2005, 04:47 PM
When a thread or post is too much trouble to read, I don't BOTHER to read it. I may regret not attempting to glean the info from it, but that's my problem.

If you really wanted others to read what you wrote, maybe its your problem too. Reading is surely easier with some typing styles than others. Some just get ignored.

Now, for the other side. I think it is also showing "respect" for others, if you try to post things in a manner which is easy to read. Why be difficult, after all?

If one were to say in rebuttal "tough, I like it that way and if you want my pearls of wisdom, pull them from the swamp, cuz I ain't changin!", that is not "showing respect". I don't think it has got there yet. Folks of that stripe tend to leave anyhow, for other reasons.

That's about communication....Spelling is usually another thing, which I don't think we need to get upset about.

I don't care how you spell, if I can understand it. Some of the brightest people I know, with advanced degrees, happen to be horrible spellers. The average engineer spells like a dunce.

With my typing performance, you may even need to know what keys are next to the one I meant to hit, and choose the one that makes sense.

My fingers aren't fat, but they do "fat-finger" the keys. So if you see the word "leys", I probably meant "keys", etc. etc.

3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 04:56 PM

0a 0a 48 6f 77 20 6c 6f 6e 67 20 64 69 64 20
69 74 20 74 61 6b 65 20 6d 65 20 74 6f 20 64
6f 20 77 68 61 74 3f 20 44 6f 20 77 72 69 74
65 20 74 68 69 73 20 6d 65 73 73 61 67 65 20
69 6e 20 48 45 58 3f 0a 49 74 20 74 61 6b 65
73 20 61 62 6f 75 74 20 74 68 65 20 73 61 6d
65 20 61 6d 6f 75 6e 74 20 6f 66 20 74 69 6d
65 20 66 6f 72 20 6d 65 20 74 6f 20 77 72 69
74 65 20 61 20 6d 65 73 73 61 67 65 0a 69 6e
20 48 45 58 20 61 73 20 69 74 20 64 6f 65 73
20 69 6e 20 44 65 63 69 6d 61 6c 2c 20 6f 72
20 42 69 6e 61 72 79 20 3a 29 20 0a 0a 2d 33
50 68 0a 0a

03-24-2005, 04:59 PM
48 65 20 68 65 65 2E 2E 2E 20 77 6F 6E 64 65 72 66 75 6C 20 6D 69 73 63 68 69 65 66 20 21 00

[This message has been edited by fixxit (edited 03-24-2005).]

3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 05:19 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fixxit:
48 65 20 68 65 65 2E 2E 2E 20 77 6F 6E 64 65 72 66 75 6C 20 6D 69 73 63 68 69 65 66 20 21 00

[This message has been edited by fixxit (edited 03-24-2005).]</font>

0a 4e 6f 77 2c 20 64 69 64 20 79 6f 75 20 72
65 61 6c 6c 79 20 66 65 65 6c 20 69 74 20 77
61 73 20 6e 65 63 63 65 73 73 61 72 79 20 74
6f 20 4e 55 4c 4c 20 74 65 72 6d 69 6e 61 74
65 20 74 68 61 74 3f 20 3a 29 0a 0a 2d 33 50
68 0a

Paul Alciatore
03-24-2005, 05:22 PM
If you guys think I'm going to translate from Hex to English, forget it. I have better things to do.

Paul A.

3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 05:25 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paul Alciatore:
If you guys think I'm going to translate from Hex to English, forget it. I have better things to do.

Paul A.</font>

Hex to English is easy....

0 - Zero
1 - One
2 - Two
3 - Three
4 - Four
5 - Five
6 - Six
7 - Seven
8 - Eight
9 - Nine
A - Ten
B - Eleven
C - Tweleve
D - Thirteen
E - Fourteen
F - Fifteen

Hex to French or German? Forget it -- can't do it..


3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 05:56 PM
[On/Off/Off/On/On/On/Off] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On] [On/On/On/Off/On/On/On]
[Off/On/Off/On/On/Off/Off] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/Off/Off/On/Off/Off/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/On/On/On] [On/On/Off/On/On/Off/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/Off/Off/On/On/On] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On]
[On/On/Off/On/On/On/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/On/On/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/On/Off/On/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/On/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/On/Off/Off]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On]
[On/On/On/Off/Off/On/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/Off/On/On/On]
[On/On/On/Off/Off/On/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/Off] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/On/Off/On/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On]
[On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/On/Off/On]
[On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On]
[On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/Off/On/On/On] [On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/On/Off/Off]
[Off/On/Off/Off/On/On/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On] [On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/On]
[On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/Off]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/On/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On]
[On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/Off] [Off/On/Off/On/On/On/Off]
[Off/On/Off/On/On/On/Off] [Off/Off/Off/On/Off/On/Off] [Off/Off/Off/On/Off/On/Off]
[On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/On/Off] [On/On/Off/Off/On/Off/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/On/Off/Off/On] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/On]
[On/On/On/Off/On/Off/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/On] [On/On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/On/Off/Off/Off/Off]
[On/On/On/On/Off/Off/On] [Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/On/On/Off]
[On/On/Off/On/On/On/On] [On/On/On/Off/On/On/On] [Off/On/On/On/On/On/On]
[Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off] [Off/On/On/On/Off/On/Off] [Off/On/Off/On/Off/Off/On]
[Off/Off/Off/On/Off/On/Off] [Off/Off/Off/On/Off/On/Off] [Off/On/Off/On/On/Off/On]
[Off/On/On/Off/Off/On/On] [On/Off/On/Off/Off/Off/Off] [On/On/Off/On/Off/Off/Off]

Duct Taper
03-24-2005, 06:08 PM
That about says it, 3Phase, but why couldn't you hit the space bar a few times?

3 Phase Lightbulb
03-24-2005, 06:34 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Duct Taper:
That about says it, 3Phase, but why couldn't you hit the space bar a few times?</font>

I put 17 spaces in there.. How many more did you want?

03-24-2005, 07:18 PM
On that crazy, happy note, let's call an end to this thread. Here we are bickering about grammar while Spence is grieving the loss of his son. Let's all take a step back and reflect on what's truly important in our lives.


Damphmann (Marty)

03-24-2005, 07:25 PM
did anyone notice page one of this thread has the same problem as is what we are talking about?

03-24-2005, 07:49 PM
For those of us who don't read machine code for a living, here's a translation:

3 Phase Lightbulb wrote:
"I think I read the first few messages in this thread and i thought to
myself... Why is someone complaining about paragraphs? Well, here is
something to complain about.. Not everyone can read HEX... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


then I asked 3 Phase
"Just Curious - How long did it take you to do that?"

3 Phase responded
"How long did it take me to do what? Do write this message in HEX?
It takes about the same amount of time for me to write a message
in HEX as it does in Decimal, or Binary http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


fixxit wrote:
"He hee... wonderful mischief !"

3 Ph. responded:
"Now, did you really feel it was neccessary to NULL terminate that? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


And lastly, 3 Ph. wrote (in binary this time)
"Now, I'm going to put paragraphs in this message so it's easier to read..

Are you happy now? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


Yes, 3 Phase - I'm happy. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

damphmann - now that the translation is on the record, yes, I think it can be closed. I'm truly sorry about SJorgensen's son http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif , but I don't think either one of them would want us to stop living our lives on account of that tragedy (I'm refraining from calling it an outrage because I haven't seen the investigation yet - but if it turns out to be as I suspect, then it is one.) What's important to me is making the most of the time that I do have, and if I make a few people smile while I'm here, then so much the better (even if it's only 3 Ph. and fixxit http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif ).

03-25-2005, 12:58 AM
Thanks for the translations -- I wasn't about to wade through that myself. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

As a former English major myself, I've certainly noticed that many folks talented in various engineering and related fields have some difficulties with the, ummm, niceties of written language. I try to take this with the appropriate grains of salt, but there are times when I have to struggle to comprehend. Enough said.

My principle blacksmithing mentor said that when he was in engineering school (Penn State?), there was a compulsory "English For Engineering Majors" course. He says that by the end of the semester they'd worn the poor instructor to a complete frazzle. Somehow, I'm not surprised.... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif


03-25-2005, 01:38 AM
I agree with everyone. What I would really like to know is whether there is a site that explains or spells out all these abbreviations.

IMHO is quite easy as is APITA but there are others that dont fit in colloqial language. The more obtuse ones ought to be spelled out.

See I put in paragraph spacers.

03-25-2005, 01:43 AM
"What I would really like to know is whether there is a site that explains or spells out all these abbreviations".

I'm afraid your SOL.

03-25-2005, 01:54 AM



03-25-2005, 05:41 AM
WFM http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

03-25-2005, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE] So believe me when I tell you this suggestion has nothing to do with grammer.

Gary Helmick
03-25-2005, 08:56 AM
I have found that this site is good for acronyms.
Gary Hlemick


Gary Helmick
03-25-2005, 08:58 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gary Helmick:
I have found that this site is good for acronyms.
Gary Helmick
p.s. can't even spell my own name right. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


03-25-2005, 09:12 AM
I try to avoid topics of conversation that involve religion and politics.

After reading some of this thread, I think I will add spelling and grammar to the list. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

And, for you ASCII communicators, I find it totally unacceptable to not precede your LF's (0ah) with a leading CR(0dh). http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


3 Phase Lightbulb
03-25-2005, 11:12 AM
Back in the 80's my family moved from Washington state, to the Boston area.. I still wanted to keep talking to my friends in Washington, but I didn't want to keep hacking calling card numbers because I knew I would get caught eventually.... so I wrote some software on my Apple ][ that let one of my friends and I talk to eachother from Seattle/Boston for free using our smart modems...

This is the way it worked.....

I wrote some software that would dial my modem long-distance to my friends house.. On the other end at my friends house, he would have software running on his Apple ][ using his smart modem to count the number of rings that came in.. A smart modem in terminal mode would send "RING" to the DTE every time the phone was running...

So basically what we did was break apart text messages into binary, and we could transmit them to eachother using number of rings for bits...

For example if we wanted to send the letter 'A' (65) (binary = [On/Off/Off/Off/Off/Off/On]) my software would send each bit like this:

For a 0 (off), it would call my friends house and let it ring for 8 seconds then hang-up... for a 1 (on), it would call my friends house and let it ring for 16 seconds then hang-up... Every 7th call was always the last bit..

On my friends end, his software would monitor the number of rings each call made... I think he used the forumla from 1-3 rings was a 0 (off) and from 5 or more was a 1 (on)..

Basically, we would setup message transfers at night while we were sleeping, and in the morning everything was sent... I remember it took over 2 minutes to transfer each 7-bit ASCII value, but the fact that we were sending ASCII messages to eachother for free was really cool..


03-25-2005, 03:39 PM
plm -

Not everyone in the world is hampered by the DOS/Windows convention of CRLF... Unix uses LF, and Mac OS 9 uses CR (OS X can handle any of the above.)



03-25-2005, 05:30 PM

Ya, I here you about all the different conventions for various machines.

But, in keeping with Your Old Dog’s initial post on paragraph breaks for easier reading, over the years my eye has adapted to the ODOA when reading prose that is coded in ASCII using hex. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Gawd I hate when I start to sound geeky!

Take care . . .