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Angus in Maine
03-25-2005, 04:35 PM
Hello Forum!

I am in the process of a complete rebuild on an Atlas 101 that was my Father-in-law's.

Cannot stand the keyless chuck that came with it so I was intending to replace it with a 0-1/2" MT1 keyed chuck and perhaps a 3/4" MT1 as well.

My question is: chucks are available with a JT to be used with a seperate arbor and those with MT tang attatched - so what are the advantages or disadvantages to either style?

Thanks in advance for the replies - I promise to read them all with or without paragraph breaks http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

precisionworks
03-25-2005, 05:56 PM
Angus,

Welcome aboard! Always nice to have a new person to poke fun at (just kidding!)

Theintegral shank does eliminate the possibility that the chuck could ever slip on the arbor. I've never had this happen but it is possible.

The integral shank is slightly more compact which gives you more working room between headstock & tailstock. It should be more ridig & more accurate.

With all that in mind, every chuck in my shop has a seperate arbor. The most accurate of the bunch is the Jacobs High Torque Keyless. Jacobs guarantees TIR at less than .0015" and mine indicates .0009". Paid about $100 for a new one on eBay. Capacities of .512" or .630" are available with MT1 arbors.

Jacobs Super Chucks are some of the nicest keyed chucks available. They aren't quite as accurate as the keyless. I've never had one that indicated less than .002" TIR. Also, you're somewhat limited by the availability of MT-JT arbors. 1MT will only adapt to 0JT, 1JT, 2JT & 6JT. Which means the largest Super Chuck is the 11N, with a capacity of only 3/8".

Hope this helps. Good luck!

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Barry Milton

Herb Helbig
03-25-2005, 08:46 PM
Angus - Whereabouts in Maine? I'm in Damariscotta.

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CCWKen
03-25-2005, 09:12 PM
Ditto what Barry says. And... Welcome to the ZOO! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Angus in Maine
03-25-2005, 09:26 PM
Thank you, it is great to be here. Metal work is new to me as a carpenter, but I have always had an interest.

I hope my neighbor Herb will weigh in here on my question - especially since he is the first one I am going to turn to if I start to go down in flames!

In fact, he has already bailed me out once, big kudos to him http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

The eBay clock keeps time with my heart!!!

Angus in Maine
03-25-2005, 09:27 PM
Thank you, it is great to be here. Metal work is new to me as a carpenter, but I have always had an interest.

I hope my neighbor Herb will weigh in here on my question - especially since he is the first one I am going to turn to if I start to go down in flames!

In fact, he has already bailed me out once, big kudos to him http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

The eBay clock keeps time with my heart!!!

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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

Angus in Maine
03-25-2005, 09:29 PM
Is there an echo in here?

Sorry about the double post, but I don't even know how I did it!



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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

spope14
03-25-2005, 10:10 PM
Before you scrap that keyless chuck, look for the brand name. If it is jacobs or albrecht (maybe the same thing, I do not know) or cushing, you can get rebuild parts for a small price. This is very much worth it.

I just priced new chucks for my shop - 21 in all, 3 keyless. The cost with arbors was quite high, figured about $80 to 100.00 per chuck set-up as i recall (+/- 10). I looked on the net for instructions on how to re-build chucks and refurbish chucks, came up with two great pages with instructions. I did these 5 at a time, and those with unbearable wear, (about 7 total, and 2 keyless), I bought the parts needed, and arbors for those needing it. Probably $20.00 for parts, and about $8.00 to 14.00 for arbors. And the re-builds, after you get a general set-up figured out is scary easy. Figured I saved the taxpayers about 1600.00 all said and done (yet they still will not build a stautue in town square honoring this accomplishment).

Might look into this, you might learn to love his keyless chuck for a small price, or even just th price of cleaning it up and making it work right.

Your Old Dog
03-26-2005, 09:10 AM
Angus, as a fellow woodworker, let me also welcome you to metal working. You will like working metal. Things happen much slower in metal working than it does in wood where one slip of the Marples and you've made another hour of heat for the wood stove! Hell, you got a welder, ain't no reason you can't achieve perfection on every project when working metal http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Ray........

mcassill
03-26-2005, 09:32 AM
Another new member chiming in here. Getting back into doing machine work after being away from it since high school. Used to make parts for farm machinery and things like that, on several OLD machines. Most of Dad's machine collection predates WWII. Now have a 1936 Craftsman 12x36" out in the garage I'm in the process of getting fixed up; have a bunch of gunsmithing projects waiting for that. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Mark

precisionworks
03-26-2005, 11:35 AM
Mark,

Welcome! You'll (love it/hate it/enjoy it) here............usually all in the same day.

I see you're from Johnston, Iowa. Have you ever visited Wolfe Machinery? http://www.wolfemachinery.com/ They are primarily a rebuilder of older DeWalt radial arm saws but have occasional metalworking machines for sale. Really nice bunch of folks. Worth a visit.



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Barry Milton

mcassill
03-26-2005, 09:45 PM
Hadn't been there; will have to keep an eye on that one. Thanks.
Mark

bikenut
03-28-2005, 03:42 PM
Howdy Angus, good to have ya here. Smitty

Angus in Maine
03-28-2005, 04:05 PM
Thank you to all for the warm greetings!

I am excited about this forum and hope to learn much more in the days to come.

A note for Barry (and any who might have smaller tailstocks, like me) Victor Machinery Exchange now offers 1MT chuck arbors in the following configurations:


$4.50 DCA-1M-OJ 1MT to 0JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 0JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-1J 1MT to 1JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 1JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-2J 1MT to 2JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 2JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-3J 1MT to 3JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 3JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-4J 1MT to 4JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T 4JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-6J 1MT to 6JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 6JT

$4.50 DCA-1M-33J 1MT to 33JT Drill Chuck Arbor 1 M.T. 33JT

Sorry it didn't paste up nicer (I admit I am too lazy to type it all)

This seems to open up some more possibilities for me - like a much desired 14N Jacobs Super Chuck!

Made the mistake of dropping by member Herb's shop and seeing his - I was sold on the spot. There is no comparing the Jacobs ball bearing to the 1/2" OE that I am using now.


Thanks again for the advice and welcomes!


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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

precisionworks
03-28-2005, 06:17 PM
Doggone, first time I've ever made a mistake (TODAY) <LOL>. Good catch on the 1MT arbors, first time I've seen them for the other sizes.

You'll like the Super Chuck 14N in the tailstock. Some people use a keyless in the tailstock but you are limited to truning the spindle in the forward direction -- if you run it in reverse (like withdrawing a tap) the chuck will loosen.

The keyless is nice in the mill. Had a job today to locate, drill & counterbore clearance holes in ground flat stock. It is so quick to chuck up the wiggler, chuck the twist drill, chuck the counterbore and be done. Faster than changing the ER-40 collets that are used 80% of the time.

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Barry Milton

Angus in Maine
03-28-2005, 07:52 PM
That's okay Barry - I appreciate your time and input to a putzer like myself. Not surprised you didn't know about the arbors because they sound a little too small for your daily tasks.

I had thought about changing out the motor on this unit when its new (old/salvaged) metal bench has gone through electolysis and repaint.

Maybe one of my reversing drum switches from Grainger...hmmmmmmm.

This just keeps getting better by the minute!

Thank God my wife is VERY understanding - and she is!

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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

Angus in Maine
03-28-2005, 07:55 PM
e-l-e-c-t-r-o-l-y-s-i-s

electrolysis...

Okay, there's my first mistake (of the day) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

wierdscience
03-28-2005, 09:09 PM
First let me say welcome to the asylmn http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

The Albrecht chucks,I hate them(no offense to all the Albrecht fans out there)I put all mine on Ebay and replaced them with Jacobs ball bearing and Taiwan keyless.

The Tai chucks are actuallt better than the Albrecht IMHO.

Tang type,I don't care,whatever I have that is shiney and not dinged up that's what I use.

The most important thing to remember about drill chucks it that they are drill chucks http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Nobody has done anything to improve them since Leanardo Davinci invented them http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Angus in Maine
03-28-2005, 09:25 PM
Thanks WS,

I think the 14N is going to work out fine for the lathe - want to use one on my drill press too but...

Well let me just say that Craftsman has left me http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//confused.gif again.

It seems that they have put a unique taper on their circa 1985 (?) 13" floor drill press. It measures out to be a #2JT Short but then everything goes fluee.

To large (min and max) to be a #2JT but to small in diameter(s) to be a #3JT. Borrowing another chuck and arbor from neighbor tommorow to see what is going on.

I would love to put a 14N on the DP but I am not holding my breath.

I hold Bob Villa responsible (no reason just need a scapegoat).

If anybody out there in cyberland knows what the scoop is with Craftsman tapers please respond.

Thanks


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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

#66B
03-28-2005, 10:09 PM
You will find this forum to be the most important fixture in the machining process, there is an unbeleivable amount of knowledge on this site,not just machining but also electric, finding where to buy items, welding, & some wild stuff, & even Humor. Its a great way to start each day, get up 1/2 an hour early to enjoy.

rumutt
03-28-2005, 10:29 PM
Herb Helbig

Small world, my twin brother lives in Edgecomb.

Bruce

wierdscience
03-28-2005, 11:39 PM
Don't get me started on Craftsman drillpress tapers.I had a 17"? The one with the itty-bitty little v-belt.It was given to me as a kid,all I had to do was drag it home(literaly)and wire a plug on it.

The plug was easy,it ran great,but the chuck was shot,took it off it had a bizzare gland nut/taper arrangement which of course was special to Sears.Called for a price on the chuck,$117.00 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif
It sat and sat for years until oneday I learned to weld after finding the specs for the standard Jacobs taper http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Craftsman (and Bob) can burn in hell,no I'm not angry thou http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Angus in Maine
03-29-2005, 12:25 AM
WS,

Sounds EXACTLY like what I have got - stubby little taper of funky dimesions and a big threaded donut to hold up the chuck and presumably keep it on.

Tomorrow I will probably find out that no JT will fit it and for the time being I will be happy to have had it off, cleaned it and put it back on.

But once you have felt the cold blue steel of a Jacobs 14N Super Ball Bearing Drill Chuck with a K3 Chuck Key and a thing which tells time - there is no turning back.

Drill chuck mania knows no bounds.

I must simply be careful and wear my safety glasses or... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//cool.gif well, you know the rest!

Maybe I can get more details from you at a later date if I decide to alter my 13" DP.

I have such a picture of this little kid dragging a drill press, screeching down the sidewalk... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"

precisionworks
03-29-2005, 12:37 AM
Weird,

Easy, easy! I (still) have the Craftsman Industrial (???) DP with the micro-mini v-belt drive. Bought it new in 1983-1984. Has a split head. It was made by Atlas.

You may be able to contact Clausing, who handles Atlas parts: http://www.atlas-press.com/

Here's a link on "what company made your Craftsman tool": http://www.oldwwmachines.com/MfgIndex/detail.asp?ID=222

BTW, once you get a mill or a mill/drill, you'll seldom use the DP, IMO.

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Barry Milton

Angus in Maine
03-29-2005, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the great link Barry - it just went into favorites so I can find out all the depressing news about my Craftsman tools :rollseyes: in the future.

Well, Weird was right on the money - Herb and I checked out the chuck taper and it is closer to being a stubby 2 Morse than a Jacobs so no 14N for the DP http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

But I'll still have one for the lathe http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

And maybe later I will tackle the reto fit of the spindle - just to spite Bob Villa.

Norm, I like - but Bob is evil http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

Thanks for all the advice to date!

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"But the Junkyard IS my storage area, Honey!"