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SJorgensen
03-24-2005, 03:00 AM
Hello friends,
Today I lost my son of 24 years. His name was Travis, and his first baby was born last month which he named after me.
He was crushed to death under a stack of granite tables that were stacked vertically on their edges. These must be about 300lbs each. He was sent to get one all by himself and the stack fell like dominoes on him. He wasn't found for 3 hours even though his forklift was there with its lights going and hundreds of people working there. I wasn't allowed in at first, but later a security guard let me inspect the spot where my son died. I'm just starting to understand what happened, but I know that it didn't have to happen. I was shocked by the standard practices in this colosal furniture and appliance warehouse. I'm still in shock. I wish I had visited his place of work before now. I would have pointed out a few things to him that just wasn't proper warehouse practice in any warehouse that I have ever seen. And this in a warehouse 100' high and a mile and a half long.

[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 03-24-2005).]

madman
03-24-2005, 03:11 AM
Im so terribly sorry to hear about this grievious loss. My sincerest condolances, I lost two family members many years ago and the memory still burns like fire in my heart. I can never forget them.

Jim Caudill
03-24-2005, 03:12 AM
I am in shock! I don't know what to say. I have a daughter that is 24 and she has a daughter that just turned 1 year old. I think my life would be over if something were to happen to her. Your sense of loss must be impossible to convey. You and your family will be in my prayers and may God give you strength and comfort in this dark hour. I hope that being able to come to this forum and share your tragic loss, you will gain some comfort knowing that we, whom you have never met, will be touched and ache at your loss. This sort of tragedy helps to sharpen the focus on what is truly important and what are just "things". I'm fairly sure there is an OSHA violation here, I would have thought that the tables would have been required to be in some sort of "racks" to preclude the domino effect.

webbch
03-24-2005, 03:28 AM
That is painful to hear. I'm terribly sorry about your loss. I can say nothing to make it any easier, but will keep you and your son in my thoughts and prayers.

Chad

ARFF79
03-24-2005, 04:03 AM
You have my deepest sympathy. I unfortunately know what you are going though, having lost my eldest daughter in a car accident coming on 8 years in May. It will always hurt though it gets somewhat easier with time. He will always be with you and you will see him every time you look at your grandson. I will ad your family t oour prayer list.

ricksplace
03-24-2005, 04:13 AM
Words just don't work at a time like this. I'm stunned. My deepest condolences to you and yours.

Last year, a colleague at work lost a daughter in a car accident. We often talked about our daughters; same age, same sports; similar kind of daughter-dad relationship. I didn't know what to say to him at the time either. We just stood there looking at each other with tears streaming down our faces.

Know that many of us here offer our condolences and will think of you in our thoughts and prayers. God Bless.

SJorgensen
03-24-2005, 06:10 AM
I thank your kind thoughts. I've not been able to sleep. I can only think of my son's baby. I have no choice but to look into the company's practices. What I saw there disturbed me. Imagine a colosal warehouse run by cheap workers in their teens and early twenties without any proper supervision or safety standards. I didn't see any signs of safety programs or management. What I saw was stacks of material in crushed boxes and unsecured refrigerators tipping off of shelves 60' up. Shouldn't tall items on a shelf 60' up have a chain around or in front of it? If we have to chain our welding tanks to the wall, doesn't it make sense that large granite slabs be restrained so that they can't dominoe over? Can top-heavy tall items be put on shelves 60' up without a chain holding them in? We live in an earthquake zone, known as the Wasatch fault zone. Is there no provision for this? Is it ok to have one person load this 300 to 500lb verticle slab alone?, where he has to slide his verticle slab of stone onto a platform without any mechanical provision for holding a narrow verticle crate like that? And with no provision to hold the other crates verticle? My son is dead, but I owe it to my grandson and I owe it to those other workers to find some answers.
This place is a colosal mess.

I've got to look into this much closer.

BWS
03-24-2005, 06:14 AM
That is absolutely tragic.Deepest thoughts and prayers from all the boys here.Wishing you the very best,BW

Tinkerer
03-24-2005, 07:06 AM
My heart goes out to you and yours. I understand your loss and the pain your going through all to well. May your God give you strength you need to see you through.

Tim

captainkirk
03-24-2005, 07:08 AM
Your loss stings all of us with sons and daughters, it is a phone call that we all dread and know could come at any time. Our thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.
My son (21 years old) wrecked his motorcycle last weekend on a trip just to the corner store to get gas for it, when the call came that it had happened my heart jumped into my throat in the time it took for his mother to say he wasn't hurt. For a few seconds I saw the panic you are now facing.

On the other note about what safety issues could affect a settlement that would help to raise his son, you might wish to check into the investigation and weather the place he worked in is trying to clean up the place prior to OSHA and the investigation getting started. It won't bring back your son and nothing will replace him, but the wellfare of the new born grandson might be a good place to train your focus. Sometimes it helps if a person has a distraction to focus on in such a time of sorrow.

wierdscience
03-24-2005, 07:19 AM
That is absolutly terrible Spence,my family and I will keep you in our prayers.

Guero
03-24-2005, 07:42 AM
There are no words which suffice. In 2003 my oldest daughter and her boyfriend/fiance were returning from college. The young man died of a brain clot at the wheel and my 22 year-old daughter was brought out of the wreck with a broken neck and a prognosis of being a quadriplegic for life. It takes several days/weeks for the full impact to sink in and it takes months and years for the pain to subside. Were it not for my faith in God and my trust in Christ I would not have been able to go on. I can understand your pain in losing Travis and will pray for you and your family. My daughter is walking today, with the use of a cane. She has not regained the use of her left arm and hand and her left leg and foot are at about 50 percent functionality. She still misses her fiance; fortunately she is strong in the Lord and this has enabled her to go on. She knows she will be fully restored in eternity and what has occurred here on earth will be only a dim memory.
Ben

speedy
03-24-2005, 07:57 AM
I can only imagine the anguish of losing a son or daughter.My heart goes out to you and yours in this time of sorrow and grief.

Ken

andypullen
03-24-2005, 08:02 AM
What a shock! I am deeply sorry for your loss. And, for your daughter in law and grandson. I'll add you and them to my prayers.

That workplace sounds like a candidate for a major OSHA inspection. I would look into having the Department of Labor in your state investigate them, too. Maybe even the AG's office.

Good luck,

Andy Pullen

torker
03-24-2005, 08:20 AM
Spence, that just makes me sick. I feel so bad for you and your family. My son has been in three very bad accidents and is now a shell of what he used to be. But we are lucky to still have him. I know there is nothing I can say to really help but I am thinking about you and your loss. May God be with you all.
Russ

Rustybolt
03-24-2005, 08:50 AM
I am very, very sorry for your loss. Please accept my sympathies.

Your Old Dog
03-24-2005, 09:46 AM
Words fail what the heart does not. I'm very sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine the pain you must feel.

If you do look into this accident I would suggest you call the local news media and talk to them. I can tell you from experiance (I work in that business) that it's almost impossible to get any information from the company about what happened. You might also want to seek out former employees. Often their information is very useful. The other employees would owe you a debt of gratitude if you could make this workplace safer.

I hope your family finds the strength you need to get thru this difficult time.

Ray



[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 03-24-2005).]

JRouche
03-24-2005, 09:55 AM
Sorry for your loss, sorry for your daughter in law.

Sometimes fighting is a way a grieving. Don't let another kid get hurt.


JRouche

happy02
03-24-2005, 10:09 AM
Very sorry to hear of your loss. You all are in our prayers.
God Bless. Joe

lynnl
03-24-2005, 10:14 AM
Spence, as others have said, we all know that no words we can offer will diminish your sense of loss. But hopefully you and your family can find some comfort in knowing that we all share your grief and have you in our thoughts and prayers. May God help you, and the family, bear this terrible burden.

Lynn

aboard_epsilon
03-24-2005, 10:23 AM
Sorry to hear the bad news Spence.
I dont know what to say.
but keep focused and look forward and remember the good times.
all the best..mark

BillH
03-24-2005, 10:38 AM
Theres not much I can say except for that Im sorry for your loss, as I am also 24 years old, it makes me think about things a little more.

Arbo
03-24-2005, 11:11 AM
Spence,

Sorry to hear of your loss. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

irnsrgn
03-24-2005, 11:15 AM
SJ, having lost my son when he was only 17, no words can help you with your loss, my heart goes out to you for your loss. Unfortunately I never got to know my son as a man, he was taken by mother nature (lightning) while on a Civil Air Patrol training mission. My only consilation was that he did not die from alchohol, drugs or some sort of criminal activity. There is nothing that I can say or do that will ease the pain of your tragic loss, but always remember that he will be in the hearts and minds of those who had the privilage of knowing him forever. Each of us touches so many other lives in so many different ways. The lord has taken him to a better place.

irnsrgn

ralphe
03-24-2005, 11:24 AM
Godbless
Ralph

Paul Gauthier
03-24-2005, 11:37 AM
Sorry for your loss.

------------------
Paul G.

hammerhead74000
03-24-2005, 12:04 PM
I know what you are going through... It hurts. Bad. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif Unfortunately, I can only offer my condolences and kind words... and perhaps a little bit of advice...

I know it may be difficult, but - take photos. Lots of them, with the time-date stamp turned on. It will help the investigation, and prevent any cover-ups from being successful. This needs to be prevented from happening to anybody else.

cam m
03-24-2005, 12:09 PM
Spence

Sorry for your loss.

May God grant you comfort and strength in the days to come.

Cam

spope14
03-24-2005, 12:18 PM
There is nothing I can say, but to offer up my condolences and prayers for you and your family. My prayers are for you and your families strength and peace in this difficult time.

I am truly sorry.

jr45acp
03-24-2005, 12:47 PM
I too add my sincerest condolences on your family's loss. I will keep you in my prayers.

John B

Carl
03-24-2005, 12:49 PM
http://www.cardsinadvance.com/cards/SYMP/big/5.jpg

Padrig
03-24-2005, 12:51 PM
So sorry for your loss. You and your familly will be in my prayers.

Pad

andy_b
03-24-2005, 12:57 PM
Spence,

as others have said, there isn't much i can say except i an sorry to hear of such a tragic loss. my thoughts are with you.

andy b.

jkilroy
03-24-2005, 01:08 PM
Mr. Jorgensen,

I am very sorry for your loss, such a tragic event. I heard of this on the radio the other day, I assume your son was working in Southhaven Mississippi? My neighbor is in the granite business and brought it to my attention. Your son will be in my prayers.

Sincerely,

James Kilroy

Carl
03-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Here's a link to further details:

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_083113800.html

Ausserdog
03-24-2005, 01:42 PM
Spence,
I'm terribly sorry about your loss. There is nothing I can say to make it easier or better. Just know that we understand the pain and anguish you and your family are going through. We lost our first grandchild almost 2 years ago.

I pray that you can find the peace and serenity to get through this. Hang together as a family. That is what got us through.

Tom

Dave Opincarne
03-24-2005, 01:44 PM
Spence, I wish there was something I could say to ease your loss, but words fail in comparison to what you are surely feeling. As a father the loss of a child is my greatest fear. I am glad to know that at 24 while short Travis did have an opportunity to experience life, to love and father a child of his own.

I think you are correct to be considering the roll of the workplace in this accident and how that relates to the future needs of Travis's son. Small consolation.

As important as that is please do not let it keep you from the grieving process which you will need to go through to get to the other side of this.

You are in my thoughts

Dave

dsergison
03-24-2005, 03:09 PM
your family is in my thoughts and prayers.

debequem
03-24-2005, 03:26 PM
Spence, I am so, so sorry to hear this. Your son was about the same age as mine when he passed.

I share your grief and understand how you feel. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

Marv

Cecil Walker
03-24-2005, 04:19 PM
Please accept my condolences, I cannot comprehend your loss. My prayers are with you and your entire family.

KevJWil
03-24-2005, 04:24 PM
My sincerest condolences.
Kevin Williams

dvk
03-24-2005, 04:31 PM
Our prayers are with you.

tonydacrow
03-24-2005, 04:54 PM
God bless you and your family, SJ. We're praying for your son in California...

lunkenheimer
03-24-2005, 06:06 PM
I'm terribly saddened to hear of your loss, and especially the circumstances.

ibewgypsie
03-24-2005, 06:13 PM
My heart goes out for you and your family.



------------------
David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

CCWKen
03-24-2005, 06:26 PM
Me and my family's sincerest condolences my friend. You show great strength posting your loss here and I take that to mean we are among your best friends. As I sit here with my wetened shirt sleves, my tears of sorrow are for you and your family. Thany You for thinking of us. I hope I am worthy of such a great friend.

From all of us here,


------------------
Ken Kopsky
Custom Car Works

Deep in the Heart of Texas!

Gary Helmick
03-24-2005, 06:35 PM
So sorry to hear of your loss, my prayers are with you and your family.
Gary Helmick

G.A. Ewen
03-24-2005, 06:48 PM
When I read your post this morning I had to turn off the computer and walk away.

Words still fail me. It breaks my heart to hear of your loss.

Maker
03-24-2005, 06:51 PM
I can't imagine your anguish, but I know how it feels to lose someone you love.
It isn't much, but I am sorry for your loss.

Alex

gunsmith
03-24-2005, 07:24 PM
So sorry. You just made all my day to day problems seem so trivial. I hope your last words with him were good.
Frank

Sandy H
03-24-2005, 07:24 PM
I am truly sorry to hear of your loss. It is my sincere hope that you are able to help your son's memory live on in the lives of others by helping bring the unsafe practices at that warehouse to an end.

With a heavy heart,

Sandy.

hoffman
03-24-2005, 07:33 PM
That's terrible. I can't even imagine what you and your family are going through. Sometimes it's just really, really hard to figure out what the Lord is up to...
I don't really know what to say but I'm horrified at your loss.

------------------
Hoffman in Warner Robins Ga

Too_Many_Tools
03-24-2005, 08:38 PM
SJorgensen, first and foremost I want to offer my sincerest condolences. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

Second, remember that the pain you are feeling is also being felt by others...your son's mother, brothers and sisters, the extended family and most of all your son's wife who has lost a husband and the father of her child. Your efforts to help those around you to cope with their grief during this tragedy will allow you to work through your grief and sorrow. In my own personal experience, it was the only thing that kept me from losing my sanity during a similar situation.

Third, do not torture yourself by second guessing what you might have done to have prevented the accident from happening. What has happened has happened and what you and your family can do in the future to help those who are affected by this incident is where it matters.

Fourth, you will find the need to have your son's senseless death stand for something positive. I really hesitate to address this issue at this point in your grief but it needs to be said. From the description of the environment that he worked in, it sounds like there will be a lawsuit in your family's future. This will be a long and stressful road to walk. One positive outcome of a lawsuit is to hopefully improve the working conditions so others do not have to travel the journey of sorrow that your family is now forced to undertake. I will caution you and your family that anything that you say or do in discussing this accident may come back to haunt you in court. Until it is time to address the subject, I would caution all parties involved to say nothing. I can assure you that the lawyers of your son's employer are already at work laying out their response to this incident.

Again, my sincerest condolences and you and your family are in my prayers.

TMT

motorworks
03-24-2005, 08:47 PM
So sorry...

JIMofalltrades031
03-24-2005, 08:49 PM
Our hearts go out to you and your family. We have also lost a son. Don't lose hope. Pull your family close and together you will make it through these awful and dark times.
Jim, Pam, Steven, (Jonathan), Tim, Elisabeth

May God Bless you and yours

rockrat
03-24-2005, 09:05 PM
Our thoughts are with you and your family.

Evan
03-24-2005, 09:06 PM
I don't know what to say. It is terrible. I can only offer my sincere condolences. With time the pain will fade somewhat.

Sprague M
03-24-2005, 09:38 PM
Our Prayers are with you in this time of Darkness. Matt, Fran and Family

charlie coghill
03-24-2005, 09:45 PM
Spence,our hearts are with you and we offer our sincerest condolences.
Charlie

Arcane
03-24-2005, 10:09 PM
My sincerest condolences to you and your family.

moldmonkey
03-24-2005, 10:12 PM
My thoughts are with you and your family.

Space
03-24-2005, 10:27 PM
My deepest sympathy at you loss.

rimfireshooter
03-24-2005, 10:37 PM
I am sorry for your loss. I am not even sure as to what to say. I don't have children but I can't even imagine.

I am a manager of a plastics plant and I thought about your son through out the day and to say the least I took a good long look around the shop. The owner and I even talked about volunteering for an OSHA inspection. We have talked about it for a while, looks like it going to happen in the near future. You and yours will be in my prayers. Dean

------------------
Dean's7x10 mini lathe page
http://members.aol.com/vwone/myhomepage/profile.html

Ted
03-24-2005, 10:58 PM
I will be praying for you.

Ted
03-24-2005, 10:59 PM
I will be praying for you.

Ted
03-24-2005, 10:59 PM
I will be praying for you.

BillJ
03-24-2005, 11:15 PM
My heart goes out to you SJ. It's a good thing, I think, that you shared your grief here. You have moved Dean to take steps at his work and maybe others of us as well.

Tinker2
03-24-2005, 11:31 PM
I am deeply sorry for your loss
Our prayers are with you

Les Burg
03-25-2005, 12:36 AM
Spence
Our thoughts are with you and your family.
Les

Stanko
03-25-2005, 12:55 AM
Your loss has hung a dark cloud over me for 2 days. The first few times I read this I cried for you and your family. I cant say much except you have my deepest sympathies.

Kia Kaha (Stay strong)

Mike

darryl
03-25-2005, 01:03 AM
Words still fail me--- so sad to hear of your loss.

Jaymo
03-25-2005, 01:15 AM
I'm so sorry. My wife and I lost our younger son on July 4th, 2003. I know what you're going through. I can't say anything that will help.
I'm still not over it. I don't think I'll ever be.
The only thing that kept me going was my surviving son.
I'm so sorry.

I do wish you'd let us know who this company was, so we can boycott them.
Take the bastards for all they're worth.
Make them f**king pay. They took your son and they can never suffer enough or pay enough for that. I know it won't bring him back. It will help with your grandson's future.
And to tell the truth, cold, heartless revenge feels pretty damned good.
I'm nowhere near the same man I was before losing my son, and I never will be.
I know how you feel, and it breaks my heart for any parent to have to go through this.

BillB
03-25-2005, 01:36 AM
Words are so inadequate at a time like this. That phone call is every parent's worst nightmare, one that I've been spared, though there have been close calls. Cherish the memories of the good times you've had, and the good times that _will_ come with your grandson, and know that your many friends here have you and your family in our hearts.

Take care, Spence.

BillB

Mike Burdick
03-25-2005, 01:52 AM
Spence,

My prayers....

Mike

abn
03-25-2005, 02:45 AM
My god, I can't imagine your pain. My thoughts and prayers are with your family. Hopefully your response to this tragedy will save another life in the future...

Herb W
03-25-2005, 03:01 AM
Spence and family,

Please accept my condolences, and know that you have my best wishes.

Herb

SJorgensen
03-25-2005, 03:03 AM
Thank you all,
It is a great,and comforting thing for me to read and to know that there are such great people like you here. And that I can associate with, and sometimes meet in person, people like those here.

You are all exceptional people that I am priveleged to associate with.

The OSHA investigator mentioned a word that I didn't know. "Cribbing"
This segments all tall, narrow, and heavy loads so that they can't domino.

I will learn what proper practice would have prevented my son's death. How many others have been injured or died to serve this lesson?

What do I have to do to NOW to impress upon corporations to ADOPT these practices?

Corporations don't have a heart like a mah and pah operation. They only have ONE interest, and that is their stockholder.

JohnnyHopper
03-25-2005, 03:13 AM
GOD be with you and your family.

Just thinking about your loss makes it hard to breath. I have a sudden desire to check on my kids while they sleep, make sure they're safe and kiss them good night.

My prayers go out to you.

Excitable Boy
03-25-2005, 03:24 AM
I can't type words that would truly express my sadness at your loss.

I hope you and your family will find the strength to continue.

Your son and your family are in my prayers.

John



------------------
Pursue Excellence and the rest will follow.

hammerhead74000
03-25-2005, 06:37 AM
I hate to have to say it, but - sue 'em. It's the only thing they understand. And don't settle for just money - make as a part of any settlement real changes to their business practices (and an on-site memorial to remind people of what's at stake).

This sort of thing - first it makes me sad and sick, then it makes me mad.

x39
03-25-2005, 08:55 AM
Sorry for your loss Spence, how awful.

spkrman15
03-25-2005, 09:01 AM
My condolences. My prays go to you and your family.

Rob

[This message has been edited by spkrman15 (edited 03-25-2005).]

Alistair Hosie
03-25-2005, 01:18 PM
Spence sorry to hear of your tragic news God bless will pray for you and your family. Alistair

rsr911
03-25-2005, 03:07 PM
Spence,

I don't have the words so I'll simply say a few prayers and hope it'll ease your pain.

------------------
-Christian D. Sokolowski

John Garner
03-25-2005, 03:13 PM
Spence --

Allow me to join the others here and express my sincere sympathy to you and your family on your son's tragic death.

John

Crazy Ed
03-25-2005, 07:32 PM
To say I understand cannot fit!

But when my last parrent died and I was alone in the world, I didn't sleep for 5 full days. Lack of sleep will catch up with you and let it. Don't fret over lack of sleep now.

Crying is a great help...let the tears flow!

Grown men do cry, so let it come naturally.

God be with your and yours.

Rich
03-25-2005, 08:20 PM
Spence,Sorry to read about your loss.I hope all the support from your friends here can be a comfort for you at this time.
Rich

Michael Az
03-25-2005, 09:15 PM
Really sorry for you Spence. I didn't expect to come here tonight to shed a tear. Wish there was something I could do for your greiving family.
Michael

ndav8r
03-25-2005, 10:55 PM
Sorry Spence for your loss!
As a lifetime photographer, I hope you can realize that pictures of your son growing up are priceless more than ever! Keep a smile on your face when you stumble over one of them in the future. Remember, when great people die, THEY ARE NEEDED ELSEWHERE!
My prayers are with you.
Gale Hansen

weldnfab
03-26-2005, 02:23 AM
I am so very sorry to hear of this tragic accident, and of the extreme pain that you are going through now. I can't even emagine how my wife and I would deal with the loss of our own 24 yr old son if something were ever to happen to him. I will pray for you and your loved ones.

Orrin
03-26-2005, 10:41 AM
Spence, nothing I can say can lessen your sorrow, however, I hope you can take comfort in knowing we share your profound grief.

Orrin

topct
03-26-2005, 11:42 AM
My thoughts are with you, take care of yourselves.

------------------
Gene

tryp
03-26-2005, 05:42 PM
My deepest condolences to you and your family. Your son was the same age as me.

Joel
03-26-2005, 06:20 PM
I am very sorry Spence. Be strong.

Duct Taper
03-26-2005, 07:08 PM
Very sorry to hear that Spence.

I have not lost a son but my youngest has been in the Middle East recently and I had the fear. What helped me was to realize that in the end all we really have are memories.

When they leave home we miss them terribly. And when they are in danger the pain is real too. I just looked at the photos I had, and the memories of good times and stressful times came back and it was like he was back home again. Enjoy the memories and you can live through them again with your son. Fill yourself with the feelings you had back then.

It will never bring him back, but it is the next best thing. Nobody can ever take the memories away from you.

Wingnut
03-26-2005, 07:49 PM
Spence,

A tragic loss indeed. May God Bless and hold you at this time most of all. Our Prayers and condolences to you and your family.

Will A.

LES A W HARRIS
03-26-2005, 08:25 PM
SJ,
So very sorry for You & your Family's loss,
You have my deepest sympathy & condolences.
Les H.

Yankee1
03-26-2005, 08:49 PM
My sincerest sympathy is your great loss.
We too have lost a child, our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Chuck

nheng
03-26-2005, 10:25 PM
Spence, My sincerest prayers for you and your family. Tomorrow (and tonight), I'm looking at my 19 year old with whom half of today was a battle, in a new light. Tomorrow is going to have to be different. Den

gizmo2
03-26-2005, 10:49 PM
I've been thinking about this since I read it. I am so sorry. If you think you can help your daughter in law and grandbaby, get a good lawyer and give 'em hell.

I can't envision how one person alone is supposed to safely handle a 300 lb table propped on end. On a pallet with a forklift, OK. Without an overhead crane of some sort, how could you possibly load it on your forks without hurting yourself, or dropping the table and cracking it? 'Cribbed' or not, I can't see it.

I hope you are able to affect a change. Please keep us posted. Keith

SJorgensen
03-26-2005, 11:45 PM
Thanks again to all of you. You are in a group that are among the most intelligent and able, and good people that I've ever found and that makes this a special site. I really appreciate your understanding and it is a comfort.

My young son was an able and intelligent man too. He probably could have loaded that table, and probably has done things just like this before. It is how the material was palleted when he got there. He just didn't recognise something that must have been leaning slightly toward him. These narrow crates should not have been handled this way from the loading end. The lift my son was working on was not a forklift per-se. It was probably called a "man up platform or something like that." It was a flat metal platform that was used to retrieve furniture and refrigerators etc. I imagine that the common practice would have been to slide the tabletop onto the platform and then lay it down, because nowhere was there any framework to hold anything upright. If there was my son would still be alive.

Here's another kicker. If an accident kills an employee and it is covered under Workman's Compensation, you lose your right to sue the employer. Workman's compensation is your "sole remedy."

Do any of you know anything about this?

Thanks again everyone,

Spence

nheng
03-27-2005, 08:44 AM
Spence, I don't think there were many things that can undo the liability that comes with negligence. Get yourself the best darned lawyer you can.

We'll start saying nice things about lawyers until you're done with him/(her).

We had a very similar accident several years ago in Hopkinton, NH. My neighbor's young son-in-law (early twenties) was crushed by a stack of temporary highway bridge members that he was either moving or stacking on a bridge project in that town. And again, within about the past year, another young guy was crushed by equipment in a highway contractor's yard in this state.

Den

#66B
03-27-2005, 10:47 AM
You have our deepest sympathy. I couldn't imagine what your going thru.

ibewgypsie
03-27-2005, 10:47 AM
They require contractors here to keep 1million+ in insurance for "death liability".

Never heard the "no responsibility" excuse, I'd talk to a attorney. While you are employed by anyone, anywhere they are responsible for your saftey and to see to it "you" adhere to saftey rules and Osha guidelines. Osha should have investigated "any" death on the job and made a ruling. If they didn't notify them, well they are even more at fault. ANY job that results in death or sickness resulting in lost-time has to be reported by the employer to OSHA. The daily saftey meetings are a Osha ruling also.
Quickest way to get fired is to ignore Saftey rules, no unemployment, no help so I think the employer is still at fault. They bluff and talk tough.

ALSO, if you pay admittance, the concert or event group is responsible for providing you with "safe" entertainment. Seen that a 1000 times, no signed release sheet at the gate will release them from responsibility. (I was a bouncer years ago) You have to throw out the unruly ones without hurting them in any way. Even someone shot on the parking lot recieved payment. (saw it happen and they still get a check)

Even if you don't need the money, create a memorial scholarship fund at the local college in your kids name.

Get some relaxing meds for a while for you and wife. Stress, thou grieving and time will reduce it is hard on you.

------------------
David Cofer, Of:
Tunnel Hill, North Georgia

wierdscience
03-27-2005, 11:01 AM
I hate to say it,but hire a good lawyer.In fact you need three that are unrelated.

It's just like medical advice,you need a second opinion,in this case even a third.

If all three agree on a course of action,then that is probably the way to go.

PolskiFran
03-27-2005, 09:29 PM
My sincere condolences to you and yours. Our prayers are with you.

Frank

hsmike
03-27-2005, 09:32 PM
Spence, I look at my 2-1/2 yr old son and can't imagine the sorrow in your heart. Keep faith-I'm sorry for your loss. You will be in my prayers

Mike

SJorgensen
03-28-2005, 03:49 AM
I found out a few facts today that seem to bear on this event.

Two years ago R.C. Willey which is a well known furniture and appliance outlet, and generally regarded as a locally owned Mormon company in excellent regard, was purchased by Berkshire Hathaway. I know nothing about them yet, but I found this recent a article about the warehouse:

Increased items shipped/received versus man hours worked by more than 10%.

Manpower required reduced by 1/3.

This policy, and management practice may have resulted in one man being sent to load 300lb table tops, when two should have been.
http://www.mhinfo.com/mhi_new/dynamic/priv/case_studies/rcwilleycs.cfm

I met the CEO of R.C. Willey at my son's viewing a few hours ago. He had initially called me from a corporate office from a speakerphone. That was a poor introduction.

I told him that what I saw in that warehouse was out of order and I described a few of the things I observed within view of where my son died. One item was a battered splintered wooden pallet that was just set leaning against a bar guardrail at the edge of a platform 50' above a main aisle along the loading dock area. I believe that a competent safety man would have filled a notebook in just the area that I saw. And this warehouse is 860,000 sq/ft.

Dave Opincarne
03-28-2005, 04:24 AM
A speakerphone? Well that just takes the F_____g cake! I have no doubt he wasn't the only one on the other end of the line.

I have no doubt as to what you observed Spence, but even if you hadn't the conditions directly leading to the accident are enough. Improper storage, equipment, and supervision in the form of sending one person to do a 2-4 man job and in grossly delaid response after the fact.

These jerks decided to cut expenses in order to look good on the anual report. They're culpable and deservie to get their asses handed to them. They know it too.

Get through the initial loss first, get in touch with a counselor, then legal counsel.

We're all still here for you and your family buddy.

Dave

klla
03-28-2005, 04:39 AM
negligence<<<<<<<<
when i was injured on the job, my lawyer GRILLED me for about an hr or so concerning "negligence"......this was a "longshoreman workers comp" lawyer....apparently, an accident in the workplace IS a workmans comp claim, UNLESS you can prove negligence....
your NOT doing it for the money
your NOT doing it for yourself
your NOT doing it for retribution
your doing it so MY kid doesnt get killed in the same manner........[or anybody elses kid for that matter]...........gotta agree woth the rest of the guys here that said,make `em hurt, its the ONLY way they`ll learn!
deepest condolences.........................

wierdscience
03-28-2005, 08:53 AM
Speaker phone?Geez how tacky an you get.When are those idiots going to learn.

This is a good lesson for any of us that work or shop in places with pallet racks and vertical storage.

The lesson-look up before walking down an isle.You never know what will be hanging over the edge of a shelf.

Things must have fell pretty often in Lowes and Homedepot since the last time I saw a stacker being used they had both isles blocked off with a barrier.

Rustybolt
03-28-2005, 10:50 AM
Spence. The best thing is to sit down with a lawyer in a couple of weeks, once you have a chance for your head to clear a little.

The others are right. It isn't about money. No amount of money will ever make this right.It's about making sure this doesn't happen to another employee. Warren Buffet should know better.

Again my deepest sympathies to you and your family. God bless you all.

Carl
03-28-2005, 03:11 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">make `em hurt, its the ONLY way they`ll learn!</font>

It won't hurt them, they'll just pass it along to their customers.

lynnl
03-28-2005, 03:22 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SJorgensen:
.... Two years ago R.C. Willey which is a well known furniture and appliance outlet, and generally regarded as a locally owned Mormon company in excellent regard, was purchased by Berkshire Hathaway. I know nothing about them yet, ....
</font>

Berkshire Hathaway is basically a holding company controlled by Warren Buffett of Omaha Nebraska. Essentially it consists of majority shares in other companies, e.g GEICO, Coca Cola, Ganett News, and other such companies. Mr. Buffett is one of the wealthiest men in the U.S... probably second only to Bill Gates. (Depending on when their bank statements are read.) The last time I saw the price Bkshr H. stock was trading at something like $80,000 per share. (He has always refused to split the stock, preferring to discourage small time investors from buying it.)

Regardless, they have really, really de-e-e-ep pockets. But it's doubtful that Berkshire gets very involved in the operations of the subsidiaries. I'd guess also that they're probably legally insulated from liabilities such as this. But, the relationship suggests to me that Willey is a very profitable company. ...apparently by way of very questionable practices.

Obviously no financial settlement in the world can ever replace the loss you and your family have suffered. But his surviving family deserves everything that can be gotten.

bikenut
03-28-2005, 03:22 PM
Very sorry to hear of your loss, may your Son rest in peace.

vinito
03-28-2005, 03:46 PM
My most sincere condolences, Spence.

Carl is partly correct since the company will do whatever makes them the most profit. However, if their costs go up the competition looks better and the books don't, which are the factors that led to this tragedy in the first place. They need to re-learn that an unsafe warehouse will cost them more than a safe one.

Being a force for change is worthy, but it is about money and it's nothing to feel guilty about. Your new grandson's future has been dealt a large dose of uncertainty and insecurity. If the company's greed stole this away, they owe it to him to make up for it. Grief and anger are painful and we yearn to get past them, but they exist for a reason. Using these feelings for inspiration for costructive action gives them a useful purpose rather than something from which you just want relief.

You know all this. I'm just rambling for myself I guess.

You have my deepest sympathy.

Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal. - Irish

[This message has been edited by vinito (edited 03-28-2005).]

cuemaker
03-28-2005, 07:56 PM
I too was going to comment about Berkshire Hathaway (stock symbol BRKA) also but Lynnl did it right except for that Bill Gates has about 15 BILLION more that Warren.

Otherwise, sue the bastards. The good and bad about this country is that you can sue anybody. Whether you get your money or not is an entirely different matter

jkilroy
03-28-2005, 09:07 PM
Yes if you are covered by workmans comp that is your sole remedy, unless his wife wants to sue. If she passes on the workmans comp deal in order to sue it could very possibly take two to three YEARS before any settlement would be reached.

The bad part about a law suit is that the lawyer is going to take at *least* 40% off the top, if not more, I have heard of up to 60%. With workmans comp you don't get that so it may all be a wash.

mike petree
03-28-2005, 09:15 PM
Truly sorry for your loss. I have two young sons and can't imagine what you and your family have been going through. Our prayers are with you.
Mike

turn2pb
03-29-2005, 01:17 AM
My sincere condolences to you and your family

Brent

gunbuilder
04-01-2005, 10:50 PM
I am so sorry for your loss, please accept my condolences. Also my sympathy to your family.

Paul

JTOSDAD
04-01-2005, 11:01 PM
I am truly sorry to hear of your loss,my thoughts and prayers go out to your family

paradise
04-01-2005, 11:22 PM
My deepest condolences to you and your family. Your son was the same age as my Paul.

DFMiller
04-01-2005, 11:32 PM
Spence,
I am very sorry to hear about your loss. Words can't express my feelings. I am a parent too.
Dave

lalatheman
04-02-2005, 01:09 AM
My deepest sympathy . . .Words fail. . .me
I hurt too . . .just hearing . .of it
David Lawrence