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joahmon
04-09-2005, 10:55 AM
I have a kurt clone and just noticed three tapped holes in the rear of the movable jaw. Not the bolt-on jaw face but at the rear of the slide. They are 3/8" and are laid out in a shallow "v" ( ' . ' ). What is the purpose of these holes?

ERBenoit
04-09-2005, 11:02 AM
Of the three holes, two are for placement of a jaw - the two outside ones. The one low and in the center is for adjusting how tight the moveable jaw is to the base of the vice. Inside that hole there is a setscrew that pushes against a pivot (half of a sphere) that sits inside of a spherical recess in the casting of the moveable jaw body. I set mine just loose enough to slide.

[This message has been edited by ERBenoit (edited 04-09-2005).]

joahmon
04-09-2005, 11:07 AM
AaaaH!
I just noticed holes on the far side of the fixed jaw also. Can I assume that all these "extra" holes are for mounting jaws to extend the range of the vise, similar to reversing the jaws on a chuck?

[This message has been edited by joahmon (edited 04-09-2005).]

ERBenoit
04-09-2005, 11:43 AM
That is EXACTLY what they (the holes) are for. I have both the "standard" jaws that came with the vice, and "Snap Jaws". If you can spare the finances for them, they are pricey, the Snap Jaws are nice to have. Especially if you, as I do, move the jaws from inside to outside on my vices frequently. I have a "Snap Jaws" catalog with many different jaw sizes/styles. MSC carries most, if not all, of them, (page 1491 in the 2005 catalog). The quick jaws just slip over LHSHCS's, then tighten the screws to secure. The "standard" jaws require the screw to be removed completely to re-position the jaw.

[This message has been edited by ERBenoit (edited 04-09-2005).]

HTRN
04-09-2005, 12:25 PM
Or you could go the cheap way and just buy the screws and make a set of jaws for the quick change.

I'm sorry but $200+ for a set of jaws is just a little ridiculous.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

joahmon
04-09-2005, 01:00 PM
Thanks, ER.

mochinist
04-09-2005, 01:32 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:
Or you could go the cheap way and just buy the screws and make a set of jaws for the quick change.

I'm sorry but $200+ for a set of jaws is just a little ridiculous.


HTRN

</font>

The price for the snap jaws is hardly ridiculous, when you consider the quality of the jaws and the time it took to make them. They are maybe out of the price range for the average home machinist, but unless you have access to the equipment to harden, grind , and black oxide your home built jaws, they will not even be comparable in quality.

I am not saying you can't build nice one's that will work fine yourself, I have made many jaws at work, some were hardened and ground and others were little more than some aluminum bar stock with some holes drilled in it.

ERBenoit
04-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Joahmon,

You're Welcome.

Thanks Mochinist,

I was looking for the words to state my reasons for "recommending" Snap Jaws. Your post fits my reasoning.

ERB

[This message has been edited by ERBenoit (edited 04-09-2005).]

snowman
04-09-2005, 02:12 PM
Mochinist...

I would agree with you that paying for the properly made jaws that are well made is a great idea...

However, not for a Kurt "Clone" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Jacob

precisionworks
04-09-2005, 05:18 PM
http://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/67/b3/9c_1_b.JPG

Bought this neat 4" Plamgren on eBay, $30 + $12 shipping. Best vise ever for production D&T on small work. No jaws? No sweat, I'll either buy a set or make a set.

Palmgren still sells the jaws ($45/set) even though they haven't made the vise in 30 years. Too expensive, gonna make some.

36" of O1 ground flat stock cost $33.00. Locating 4 holes, drilling, counterboring, surface grinding the tops level & milling the sides flush took fifty dollars of my time.

It's almost always cheaper to by most things unless your time is free.

------------------
Barry Milton

mochinist
04-09-2005, 08:52 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by snowman:
Mochinist...

I would agree with you that paying for the properly made jaws that are well made is a great idea...

However, not for a Kurt "Clone" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Jacob

</font>
Yeah $200 jaws on a $80 vise would be kinda silly.

HTRN
04-10-2005, 03:15 AM
Sorry but 200 dollar jaws on a three hundred and fifty dollar vise is also a little ridiculous.

One of the jobs I would occasionally have to run at the shop I "apprenticed" at was to do a run of vice jaws for the shop. We didn't bother hardening them as when the inevitable contact was made we simply planed 'em down and recut the recess. We would make them anywhere from a half to almost an inch higher than the factory hard jaws. Those two hundred dollar jaws are out of the price range of most shops. Here's some math for you. The afore mentioned shop had something like 18 Kurts. That's eighteen pairs of .080 vice jaws. Add in say six sets of of .050's and six sets of .125's and tell me what it would come out to. Plus you can't mill 'em for custom workholding like rounds and ovals.

The oldest VMC in the shop had the jaw program in memory all the time. I could set up, proof and be running in less than 30 minutes because they're were only 3 cutters a drill, a half inch endmill and a face mill. None of the tolerances were anywhere near critical so you could just bang them out. Think how much 1040 3/4 by 2 you could buy for one set of Snap Jaws. As for them not being hard, well you still have the original hard set that came with the vice, you just have to use parallels.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

IOWOLF
04-10-2005, 07:37 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25297&item=7506330552&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

This guy is good, I have bought some from him.

Usual disclaimers apply.

John Stevenson
04-10-2005, 07:54 AM
OK I can go with hardened and ground jaws for production work where they are going to get some stick.
I can even go with the hardened and ground standard jaws that come with the vise.

However for specials in the home shop you don't need it. As someone has mentioned a strip of gauge plate or ground flat stock will make a pair, possibly two depending on your jaw size.

Any burrs chips etc can be stoned out.
One advantage especially for a newbie is that it you are careless and make a mistake and touch a jaw it isn't an expensive tool gone west, it's a nick out of a jaw than can be ignored, turned over or even milled down to clean up.

The choice is yours what type of jaw to make.
You can have a pair of tall jaws so you can hold a larger diameter bar than standard.
You can even fit one tall jaw to the back as a fixed jaw and bolt the other jaw flat to the moving jaw [if it has a flat surface as many do ].
If you bolt this towards the back it will then give you a greater holding width for plates and sheet work etc.
Using this method it's quite easy toget a 4" opening vise to accept about 7" and all for 15 minutes work tapping a few holes.

John S.

IOWOLF
04-10-2005, 07:58 AM
PS, this guy does custom jobs also.email him.

mochinist
04-10-2005, 12:55 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:
Sorry but 200 dollar jaws on a three hundred and fifty dollar vise is also a little ridiculous.

One of the jobs I would occasionally have to run at the shop I "apprenticed" at was to do a run of vice jaws for the shop. We didn't bother hardening them as when the inevitable contact was made we simply planed 'em down and recut the recess. We would make them anywhere from a half to almost an inch higher than the factory hard jaws. Those two hundred dollar jaws are out of the price range of most shops. Here's some math for you. The afore mentioned shop had something like 18 Kurts. That's eighteen pairs of .080 vice jaws. Add in say six sets of of .050's and six sets of .125's and tell me what it would come out to. Plus you can't mill 'em for custom workholding like rounds and ovals.

The oldest VMC in the shop had the jaw program in memory all the time. I could set up, proof and be running in less than 30 minutes because they're were only 3 cutters a drill, a half inch endmill and a face mill. None of the tolerances were anywhere near critical so you could just bang them out. Think how much 1040 3/4 by 2 you could buy for one set of Snap Jaws. As for them not being hard, well you still have the original hard set that came with the vice, you just have to use parallels.


HTRN

</font>


I stand by what I said, and besides who am I to argue with someone who feels the need to put qoutes around "apprenticed". Here is a lil pic for you. http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares6.jpg

John Stevenson
04-10-2005, 01:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mochinist:

I stand by what I said, and besides who am I to argue with someone who feels the need to put qoutes around "apprenticed". Here is a lil pic for you. http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares6.jpg

</font>

Mochinist,
It is a home shop group after all.
For many on this group what is available to buy toys and trinkets etc is after biils are paid and the dogs been fed.


This is the difference between a high end magazine like Cosmopolitan and the lower end ones such as Home Shop Workshop.

In Cosmopolitan they tell you how to achieve an orgasm.

In HSM they SHOW you how to mill one.

John S.

HTRN
04-10-2005, 02:46 PM
I used "apprentice" because I didn't go through a formal program, instead the shop I referred to taught me most of what I know today.

I've worked in four different shops and been in hundreds(job interviews, auctions, trying to drum up business, etc) and I've only seen the snap jaws once.

My method you can just plane em down and recut them. You have a woopsie with snap jaws and their junk. Besides, whose to say you can't heat treat and grind 'em yerself?

I did the math. The price tag for the shop I previously mentioned came to six thousand dollars. Personally if I was the owner, I would rather lay hands on another fourth axis instead of buying something at an inflated price for something you can make cheap.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

JCHannum
04-10-2005, 03:25 PM
I consider vise jaws as consumeable tooling, the same as a faceplate. Make them out of mild steel, drill and mill to hold work if necessary, make new as needed.

I just looked at the Snap Jaws in a J&L catalog. They range in price from $35.00 to the $200++ range. The plain jaws are not too badly priced considering the work involved plus heat treating, and probably would compete with commercial shop rates. For the HSM, they are a high priced luxury.

Your Old Dog
04-10-2005, 03:32 PM
My Pa would have called that a $100.00 saddle on a $10.00 horse. He got a kick out of everything I bought for my $50.00 junker cars!

snowman
04-10-2005, 04:30 PM
200 dollar jaws on a 350 dollar vise....

Not in the home shop.

However...nobody thinks twice about paying 600 dollars for a vice when you need it in a manufacturing environment. Same thing for a 20 dollar insert or a 150 dollar boring bar. If you want to wait, they'll pop up on Ebay and you can pay 20 bucks for the whole shot...ORRR...if you need them right away, you can just drop the cash (usually someone elses) and get what you need to get the job done, or dont faster.

200 dollar jaws work fine when it's someone elses money, or you are wagering time spent machining them vs time you would not be making money in the shop.

I do it all the time in my garage shop...spend five hours making something that i could go to the hardware store and buy for ten bucks. Afterward you say, "geez, that was stupid".

Unfortunately, it seems that very few people in industry can balance time vs cost.

Yes, you can keep running that lathe for another fifty years...half the time you'll be fixing it.

If you want nice hardened and ground jaws...rough them out, send them to Hoffman and he'll harden em for ya, then send them to somebody on the list with a grinder. You'll prolly do the whole thing for under fifty bucks.

-Jacob

mochinist
04-10-2005, 05:08 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:
Mochinist,
It is a home shop group after all.
For many on this group what is available to buy toys and trinkets etc is after bills are paid and the dogs been fed.


This is the difference between a high end magazine like Cosmopolitan and the lower end ones such as Home Shop Workshop.

In Cosmopolitan they tell you how to achieve an orgasm.

In HSM they SHOW you how to mill one.

John S.

</font>

John I realize this is a home shop group, I come here because of the wealth of intelligence and different skills that this board has to offer. I sometimes go to respond to a question and then see that Forest has got to it already, and realize that there is no way I could explain it better and my response would just look foolish.

As for the the difference between Cosmo and HSM, I wouldn't know I read Playboy, and I can tell you one thing the pictures in Playboy are a lot better than the HSM. lol

I am also not advocating going out and buying quick change jaws for your home shop or for all 18 of your kurt vises. Although on a vise that gets used in low to high production and is used for parts that have high tolerances it will pay for itself. I was more arguing the fact that $200 dollars for those jaws was hardly ridiculous when you considered the quality and time it took to make them.

In our shop we have one set of snap jaws that are probably five or six years old, they have different sized vertical v grooves cut in them for holding round stock vertically. The rest of the jaws are the stock kurt jaws and jaws that I made myself. I made one set that is nine inches long instead of the standard six, they were hardened and ground and work great when you got something that is long. I also have a whole shelf of aluminum jaws the have different profiles cut into them for certain jobs.

As for wanting soft jaws because you are worried about oopsies, I would say plan your cuts and proof your programs. I have yet to hit a vise jaw and ruin it or a cutter, you got to learn to look ahead when machining and for see problems before they occur, its like chess it isn't only about the next move, it is about as many moves ahead as your brain will handle.

Damn that was alot of writing now my brain hurts, and I for one don't care what jaws you use, just have fun using them.

[This message has been edited by mochinist (edited 04-10-2005).]

John Stevenson
04-10-2005, 05:40 PM
mochinist,
At one time I thought the pictures in Playboy were better but it took me a while to realise they were the same picture taken different ways in different shades.
Problem was they were only pictures.
At least in HSM you can get to own what's in the picture http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I accept what you are saying about planning and proofing programs and Ok that's fine when you are talking about CNC.
Here we are dealing with 90% manual guys, possibly greater than 1/2 of them with no formal training.
It sounds as if you are in roughly the same boat as me and have had someone go to great lengths to show you the ropes.

You say you have never hit a vise jaw or ruined a cutter.
Well I must admit I have although I do tend to rush repair jobs thru as fast as I can. It's always the "lets squeeze the last bit " syndrome, followed by "pingdammit"
Hey I'm only human and it's only a consumable cutter.

Many of these guys here have had to learn from books and mistakes, not nessesarily in that order http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Simple tips that hands on guys post are gratefully recieved by most newbies.

Most are not worried about tenths accuracy, most would like the part to come out looking something like the drawing.
Perhaps later when they have a bit more experience and practice they will want more but anything that helps in costs and ease of use will be a boon at this time.

I see from the Snap Jaws web site that they do softjaws, you and others have said you have aluminium jaws so what's the difference in making your own unhardened jaws ?

John S.

mochinist
04-10-2005, 05:58 PM
John my wife is pretty damn close to what is in the magazine, so I got the best of both worlds.

When I talk about planning your cuts that doesn't only apply to CNC it also apply's to manual work. I realize this takes experience to do and alot of the guys on the board don't have much. But I have seen what these guys can do with a lathe and a milling attachment and I know it is not beyond them. When I look at a print or a repair job I try and go thru all the steps in my head to try and see the best route to take, there is nothing worse than machining material away that could have been used to locate or hold the part in the next setup.

IOWOLF
04-10-2005, 06:28 PM
I keep hearing about $200 jaws you are a bunch of dumb a$$es if you dont at least try the guy on ebay, I got a pair of hardend, ground, and stepped oversized jaws for like $40 shipped from him.

Usual disclaimers apply.

MMurphy
04-10-2005, 09:43 PM
Another Kurt question.

I Just received a new Kurt D688, with the nifty little o rings under the front of the movable jaw. Works great once you figure out how to adjust it correctly.

Anyway. What are the two machined areas with an index mark just in front of the hold down holes?

C. Tate
04-10-2005, 09:45 PM
Can't pass one this topic. I have made jaws for vises, three jaw chucks, and jap hydrualic chucks. You are not paying for the labor and materials you pay for the fancy color catalogs and the overpriced booth at IMTS. I ran they family machine shop and currently work for company who manufactures steering gears. You can make snap jaws to same quality in small shop for a small fraction of the price of new. I am not talking mass production either. I would estimate making 10 sets complete with heat treat and grinding etc would cost $25.00 to $30.00. Power steering gear complete and ready to mount on frame of car with all ball joints is around $100.00. Jaws are way overpriced for $200.00 they should come and install them and bring doughnuts.

CT

HTRN
04-10-2005, 10:27 PM
Just looked up the price of snap jaws, the ones we would have used would have "only" been $112 dollars. That comes to $3360. And they still would have to be modified because the smallest step is .100

What did it cost the shop to make the jaws?

Cutters we already had.

Employee you still had to pay whether I twiddle my thumbs or make jaws.(Me)

Material(MSC has Ground flat stock A2 in 36 inch lengths for something like $85 dollars, go to a metal supplier and buy a decent quantity and the price will be lower)

That's 28 dollars a pair, MSC price. I imagine they paid less.

As for Heat treating, Ironbound is one of the biggest in NJ. I know for a fact they do A2 because I've dropped it off there.

Why do you need hard Jaws anyway? I used to mill 6061 to plus or minus .001 all day long at very high metal removal rates(couple of 55 gallon drums a day per machine) with plain old steel jaws and often aluminum jaws.

Then again, I've never worked in a big shop with a bloated beuracracy with nobody knowing who's spending money on what because it's a "good idea"

You may be interested to know that Snap Jaws lists dimensional data for jaws in their catalogs. Very handy for the "do it yerselfer"


HTRN


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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

wierdscience
04-10-2005, 10:52 PM
I can settle this real quick,$200 is too much for a set of jaws,the Chinese should make them to,then they would be $19.95 a set.

I change jaws around often,I have a 10" 3/8" allen key and a short piece of the same pressed into a knurled aluminum handle so I can spin the jaw screws in and out quick.

If you want to buy some jaws,go ahead,if you want to make them feel free.Me I take the middle road,CRS and a nitriding furnace.

snowman
04-10-2005, 10:58 PM
"Then again, I've never worked in a big shop with a bloated beuracracy with nobody knowing who's spending money on what because it's a "good idea""

You've missed out my friend!

Half of my tools came from companies like that.

You are throwing that out???? Awesome
Too expensive to repair??? Sweet
You ordered too much raw material and the extra is going to scrap because there is no room to store it??? How much does it weigh, I'll take a check to accounting right now.

-Jacob

HTRN
04-10-2005, 11:23 PM
Well, one of my friends is a machinery dealer, so i get the "friends and family" discount. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Not too long ago, he gave me a box of insert endmills, because he couldn't be bothered with putting them on ebay for the small change they would bring.

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)

joahmon
04-11-2005, 08:48 AM
Gees guys, I didn't mean to start a war with my "dumb" question.

From John S.:"Many of these guys here have had to learn from books and mistakes, not nessesarily in that order
Simple tips that hands on guys post are gratefully recieved by most newbies.

Most are not worried about tenths accuracy, most would like the part to come out looking something like the drawing.
Perhaps later when they have a bit more experience and practice they will want more but anything that helps in costs and ease of use will be a boon at this time."

Thanks, John, for the recognition that some of us are not experts, don't have customers to pay for our toys and don't have "super" machines that can take 1/4" cuts. I for one am very grateful that someone with your skill and imagination shares his knowledge with us newbies.



[This message has been edited by joahmon (edited 04-11-2005).]

ERBenoit
04-11-2005, 10:05 AM
Joahmon,
From what I see, it looks like I may have initiated the conflict. You asked about the holes I anwered, then proceeded to mention an availiable accessory item I would not do without. My daily employment as a model shop machinist gives myself (or any others on the board whose daily employment is machining), the exposure to accessories that the in hobby machinist may not know of or be able to afford. Because I have, use, and without using my pocket, pay for them, I think nothing of suggesting them. My bad. My suggestion of the "Snap Jaws" was not meant to offend or start a p***ing match. My apologies.

ERB

John Stevenson
04-11-2005, 11:11 AM
ERB,
Nothing wrong at all in sugesting anything like that.
You take a look and if you have the machinery and skills to do a copy then fine you get a new tool, new skills and a fine sense of achievment.

Vise jaws aren't rocket science, if you buy gauge plate or ground flat stock or however you refer to it then it's a simple drill press and hand tools job, in fact you can even do these without a drill press.
How hard is it to hacksaw two pieces off, file the ends up and drill and tap 4 holes ?

Wirecutter
04-11-2005, 12:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:

This is the difference between a high end magazine like Cosmopolitan and the lower end ones such as Home Shop Workshop.

In Cosmopolitan they tell you how to achieve an orgasm.

In HSM they SHOW you how to mill one.

John S.

</font>

John -
Thanks for that. I was browsing the group while eating lunch at my desk, and almost laughed a mouthful of sandwich all over my screen. I needed the laugh, tho.

But seriously, this thread is why I read this BBS. I think most folks here are pretty thick-skinned, so I hope nobody's nose gets out of joint. I *like* the flurry of opinion on a topic like this. (Some would say "p***ing match") I'm pretty much a newbie hobbiest, so the dialog from the more seasoned is useful to me, be they pro or experienced amatuer. I can see the case for expensive jaws bought elsewhere, and in my case, I can also easily see the case for making my own, slightly oversize jaws so I don't cuss as much if I screw up a set.
Anyway, I say "keep it up", all.

-M

[This message has been edited by Wirecutter (edited 04-11-2005).]

MikeHenry
04-11-2005, 09:33 PM
MMurphy,

If I understand the question, I think that those little index marks are intended for use with a swivel base. You use them to align the vise to a specific angle with respect to the swivel base.

Mike

MMurphy
04-11-2005, 09:43 PM
Thanks mike!

Mike

mochinist
04-11-2005, 10:22 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:
Just looked up the price of snap jaws, the ones we would have used would have "only" been $112 dollars. That comes to $3360. </font>

Does that include shipping and handling? LOL Seriously did you read my first response to you way back at the start of the thread. Did I ever say you shouldn't make the jaws yourself? Did I ever say you should buy 18 sets of jaws for all your vises?I will answer that for you, "no I did not". I said "The price for the snap jaws is hardly ridiculous, when you consider the quality of the jaws and the time it took to make them." I don't know how your company operates but I assume snap jaw has the same basic principle as ours, its called make a profit and keep your employees working. They make a product for people that have the money and don't have the time to make their own. Yes if you have the machines and the tooling and the time you will spend less on the jaws, although if you work out the time involved I bet they work out to be the same, at least at my shop rates they would be.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:
Why do you need hard Jaws anyway? I used to mill 6061 to plus or minus .001 all day long at very high metal removal rates(couple of 55 gallon drums a day per machine) with plain old steel jaws and often aluminum jaws.</font>

I do more stainless than aluminum, I have seen what it will do to a soft jaw.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HTRN:
Then again, I've never worked in a big shop with a bloated beuracracy with nobody knowing who's spending money on what because it's a "good idea" </font>

Five people in our shop that includes the owner and wife/office manager. We all have the same buying power in the shop, and believe me all purchases are well thought out.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
I can settle this real quick,$200 is too much for a set of jaws,the Chinese should make them to,then they would be $19.95 a set.</font>

Yes then we can listen to the same guys arguing with me bitch and moan because another American manufacture either went under or moved the operation to China.

I have a few last things to say and then I am done with this thread.

1: If the jaws are so redicilously priced, then the market must be ripe for the picking. I say start selling jaws for a much lower price you will make a killing if you are right and prove me wrong.

2:ERBenoit and joahmon you didn't start a war, maybe a disagreement at best. Machinist by trade are usually pretty hard headed and set in their ways(myself included). I work with one other machinist and we both disagree on the best way to do stuff all the time, although I am right more than he his. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I would still have a beer with HTRN, as long as he was buying anyways.

Rant over.

HTRN
04-12-2005, 01:20 AM
There's a reason there's no competition.

They have a patent.

As for what it cost, at the time I was making 12 bucks an hour. The material cost roughly 28 dollars a pair max. Once set up, I could bang out a pair every five minutes on a Haas VF2. So figure roughly a dollar a pair labor. as for machine time, we only did this when there was no job immediately for the VMC.

Snap Jaws is mass producing these things. They pay far less for material and for heat treating. They're whole factory is setup for cranking these out. Why are they so expensive? Greed. They'd make far more charging less simply because of the increase in sales. Let's face it, most of us could copy it in our sleep. Once the patent expires, they're doomed.

I should have said I mostly did Aluminum all day long. We also did regular(C360) brass, naval brass, copper nickel, stainless and Berylium Copper. The Be Copper was the worst. It just eats endmills.

Typical critical tolerances were tighter than print because the waveguide on the flange would have to be broached afterwards. .0005 was typical of what I had to mill the pocket to.

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This Old Shed (http://http:thisoldshed.tripod.com)