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wierdscience
03-07-2005, 11:36 PM
There currently is an ad running about mine removal programs sponsered by the UN.It isn't running here yet as it is very graphic.

This is actually something I have been envolved with for the last few years,not removal,but studying burial.

I have worked off and on with a customer studying the subject.It's more complex than you would think.

Soil conditions are the nightmare for mechanical removal.Reason is,you can bury several mines in a given field randomly dispersed and leave the field unattended for several years,during that time some of the mines may stay in the same location,some may sink and some may weather out.This makes 100% eradication difficult.
Worse yet are fields lain down on beaches or lakeshores,marine sediment and sand is very unpredicatable due to liquifaction.The mines can actually relocate,disappear and re-appear in other areas and strata.

Methods used to detect and locate them vary in sucess and some are quite dangerous.Ground penatrating radar and metal detectors have limited results.Some mines are made completely from plastic and poly and newer ones have been rigged to detonate triggered by the detection process.

We have nearly exhuasted all our ideas in detection methods and mechanical removal on a large scale is very expensive and many times impractical.

The sad part is steel mines from WWII are still live 60+ years later,the plastics may be around for centuries.

Any new Ideas?

Stanko
03-07-2005, 11:53 PM
Trade sanctions against countries manufacturing them ? Cant see that working because that would include the US and UK. The sad part about mines is that the victims are often children and other non combatants.
At least if they were biodegradable they would eventualy go away.

CCWKen
03-08-2005, 12:06 AM
Seems like a good job for infrared detection. If the "target" changes temperature at a different rate than the soil, it should be detectable.

wierdscience
03-08-2005, 12:16 AM
I agree totally,sanctions will not work,the mines We and the UK produce are a cake walk to remove and we primarily use them for perimeter defense.
The terrible part is the modern ant-personel mine,it is extremely cheap(Angola holds the record at $.12USD ea.)has one moving part,no electronics and can be easily modified to trigger on detection only by adding one part.Diabolicly simple,designed in hell.

Last count there were 135 unique types of non-metallics,they are a regular cottage industry in some third world countries.

The only answer is effective detection and erradication,simple robotics may be one answer,Right now many poor countries use people for removal,a field with 250,000 mines the odds of death are great.

Rustybolt
03-08-2005, 12:21 AM
Microwave the ground til they blow up.


From a military point of view it is an easy and effective way to guard your flanks and rear. Or to channel enemy soldiers into your kill zone.


"Only the dead have seen an end to war."

[This message has been edited by Rustybolt (edited 03-07-2005).]

Jim Luck
03-08-2005, 12:30 AM
How come the most intellagent specie on the earth cannot live in harmony. Why must we hate and destroy each other and everything else we get our hands on?. I believe the Bible has the answer, the mind of man is wicked beyond comprehension, who can know it!. At least believers will go on to a better place, which will be here, under our Lord's peacefull eternal reign, turning our weapons into plowshares and machine shop equipment! (my interpretation).

wierdscience
03-08-2005, 12:38 AM
Good idea,how do you redirect the microwaves so the unit isn't taken out on detonation?

Did I mention they mix the types? Some are the size of 12ga shotshells,some the size of a big soup can and some are three feet round and hold 10lbs of plastic http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

Truthfully,I was thinking the otherday,after all the pictures I have seen of the aftermath.If for some reason I were called to go to,oh say Iraq,the bullets,bombs and rockets don't scare me in the least,but the mines scare me.One retired Marine I was talking to called it the "LIFE LOTTERY" you never know when you will get lucky...unlucky that is.

hammerhead74000
03-08-2005, 01:22 AM
Hmm... Mechanical Ground Resonanace?

.RC.
03-08-2005, 02:25 AM
wierdscience what do you mean cake walk to remove???????


I believe mines do serve a purpose in times of war BUT they must be made to be 100% useless after say 1mth or so....

Even as bad as mines are cluster bombs... These insidious weapons are greatly loved by the armies of the world much to my disgust and i think most soldiers on the ground..

One thing is for sure unless my country is under threat of attack i certainly won't be going out fighting a war for the prosperity of another country...

madman
03-08-2005, 02:36 AM
Use the not so secret death rays mounted on tanks.

Evan
03-08-2005, 03:00 AM
Develop a cheap chain flail that can be mounted on a boom on the front of a Toyota pickup.

John Stevenson
03-08-2005, 04:39 AM
Use drug dealers handcuffed together in long lines , marched forward.
Rap music is optional but it will cover the sobbing and screams.

John S.

wierdscience
03-08-2005, 08:32 AM
John,RAP "artists" followed by drug dealers http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

By cake walk I mean nearly all of the removal methods work.It's the little plastic bastiches that are hard.So far the only effective method is scraping up the dirt 18" deep,screening the dirt out and running the remaining mess through a popping furnace.Expensive and time consuming.

lklb
03-08-2005, 10:17 AM
John Stevenson- Drug dealers for minesweapers?-Unthinkable! SMART politicians thruout history have known--YOU DONT KILL YOUR BOOGEY MEN YOU EXPLOIT THEM !Here in the USA drug dealers are the FEED STOCK for our last great growth industry, The War On Drugs.This device has allowed over the last 35 years the creation of the modern Police State , with attendant erosion of civil rights, consolidation of power to the few ,and the ability to relieve the taxpayers of many,many 100s
billions dollars /yr.
We incarcerate and subjugate more per capita than any place on earth- perhaps any place, this side of the gates of hell. More than 50% are in for drug crimes,many of these are PETTY drug crimes.But so what ? Apparently that is what we want.
Hundreds of thousands of folks make damn good livings attending to this "war".Local, state and federal budgets for drug affairs keep expanding. Prison construction is a boon for construction people with mandated prevailing wage guidelines allowing decent wages for these folks for once. Average wages for prison guards in my state are in the $80000 range-- never mind the opportunitys for guards to sell marlboros to their "guests" for $5 per butt, now that smoking is outlawed in jail.The Drug Rehab industry is booming; with many ,many poorly trained practitioners reaping solid six figure incomes when you count the private and group sessions they oversee --Absolutely amazing for an industry with a near 0 success rate.
Tne DEA,FBI, BATF,Military ,State and Local Police, ,Judges ,ballifs,sheriffs,clerks and others all benefit financially from the existance of the drug trade. Oh !Dont forget about lawyers. Never forget about lawyers!Blow up drugdealers in minefields?If these folks were honest they would have a"Drug dealers day parade" to celebrate the source of their good fortune. The real money in drugs is THE WAR ON DRUGS.

Rustybolt
03-08-2005, 10:18 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
Good idea,how do you redirect the microwaves so the unit isn't taken out on detonation?

Did I mention they mix the types? Some are the size of 12ga shotshells,some the size of a big soup can and some are three feet round and hold 10lbs of plastic http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

Truthfully,I was thinking the otherday,after all the pictures I have seen of the aftermath.If for some reason I were called to go to,oh say Iraq,the bullets,bombs and rockets don't scare me in the least,but the mines scare me.One retired Marine I was talking to called it the "LIFE LOTTERY" you never know when you will get lucky...unlucky that is.</font>

Use a radar like they have on fighter jets, but more powerful.

ibewgypsie
03-08-2005, 10:48 AM
Better yet, put a bounty on them. Privateers would love to crawl through the fields collecting. (like rats during the middle ages?)

Kinda like the truck drivers in Iraq. Somebody will hire someone to drive the truck. They make money, the person hired makes money. Well some. And the mines are removed.

I worked a job for 4 years putting on a gas mask for 10 hours a day. I see a similar line of work. OSha by the way says you can only wear a gas mask 8 hours a day. But what do they know? The man with the money made the rules. Osha also said anyone without Jaw teeth can not be fitted to wear a gas mask. But what do they know? My Female Judge in my child support case said I could wear one and work everyday the rest of my life and they would increase my support amount to reflect the amount I should be making doing this. Construction? temporary jobs? She said go get another one of them jobs? Kinda like when my ex told me after I got laid off to go back and tell them they couldn't lay me off. She was serious. Sitting there on her fat butt eating lil debbie snack cakes. (she was skinny when she got pregnant)

You make it profitable, there will be some dumb sob probing the ground looking for them. Trying to keep milk on the table for thier kids, or enough insurance money to make a woman happy eating lil Debbie cakes. The people collecting the main amount of income thou will have nice office jobs far away from any mine fields.

I'm off to have a better day. They can track every nut-bolt-debris natural and man made in outer space orbit but not find land mines.. My butt. Wrong people looking I think.

David

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 03-08-2005).]

debequem
03-08-2005, 11:05 AM
Ah, good point! Don't use the drug dealers, use the lawyers to clear the mines!!!

Why didn't we think of that sooner?

For that matter, when we invaded Iraq we should have just sent in lawyers. They are more feared than the soldiers and we have more lawyers about to graduate in the US than there are practicing today!

Yeah, send lawyers! ;-)

Marv

ibewgypsie
03-08-2005, 11:11 AM
(The way I got the Judge off my back?)

I went to court wearing a Harley Tee-shirt, tattoos all blazing, hair uncombed and angry eyes.
The judge looked at me and decided I looked like someone the state would have to support and I have not been back to court for "that case". I have paid my child support, I just won't be raped into working dangerous jobs to make a inflated amount of money to support a ex who would not work on her own.

Reality? or imagined reality? I had cleaned up, shaved, wore long sleeve shirts to court before.

Cradle to grave, MSDS on each quart of chemicals you buy, you are responsible for proper disposal of all hazardous waste. I see no difference in Land mines. Use pigs to sniff them out, use rat terriers.. Ohh yeah ASPCA would rather you use people. Probably cheaper to just put a bounty on them.

David

Evan
03-08-2005, 11:42 AM
We have a lot of spare cows up here for sale cheap. You could eat what is left...

jkilroy
03-08-2005, 12:11 PM
Nobody cares because its not an American problem. You want to find a solution? Its not like someone sprinkled millions of those small 12ga sized plastic guys all over our country. If American or British children were losing legs and arms to these things they would have been outlawed years ago.

------------------
James Kilroy

[This message has been edited by jkilroy (edited 03-08-2005).]

Paul Alciatore
03-08-2005, 12:57 PM
In defense of the military, I know for a fact that our military has been concerned about deactivating old mines for a long time. We have many designs that will deactivate after a period of time. We also do a lot of clearing. And our minefields are supposed to be mapped for easier removial. I know a lot of people are anti military but the military are people, with families also. They are there to protect our country and our freedom and I, for one, think that they are doing a very good job of it. They have my respect and thanks.

As for clearing mines, it is a very serious and urgent business. And it is loaded with danger and problems. I like the chain thing and the microwave thing but suspect both are only partial solutions.

Rant mode ON.
I would completely support the lawyer thing if it would include judges. Can't do the drug dealer thing, the lawyers and judges gave them "rights". Now they are giving terrorists "rights".
Rant mode OFF.

We can build machines to tunnel under the English Channel, why can't we build mine clearing machines that would work? $$$.

Paul A.

Evan
03-08-2005, 01:04 PM
Here is an example of a chain flail that would probably work well for deactivating many small anti-personnel mines. It just needs to be mounted on a pickup and driven by an auxilary engine with hydraulic pump in the box of the truck.

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=44004&x=7&id=159300

Techtchr
03-08-2005, 01:12 PM
The lady that invented the IRobot vacuum cleaner was on NPR Science Friday a few weeks ago and stated that she is teaming up with the US Gov. to develop military robots. One of which was a mine detecting Bot I believe. Here's the NPR LINK
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4486524

Very interesting interview, but not a great deal of specifics on how they would work.

Matt

RPM
03-08-2005, 01:34 PM
Dear Wierd,
This may appear to be coming out of left field, but have you tried dowsing? You may or may not know that all the big oil companies keep a dowser on the payroll, because they can often come through when the scientists can't. Dowsing is not only for water or oil, the Russians put a lot of research into it, ending up with a unit mounted in a plane that could track magnetic anomilies better than conventional equipment. The technique would need to be learned, but the incentive of money, plus living a little longer would give a certain edge to the learning process :-) This would be similar to the remote viewing made so popular by the CIA in recent years, but which has been used by yoga Masters for thousands of years. Just a thought...
Richard in Los Angeles

Evan
03-08-2005, 01:39 PM
You first.

J Tiers
03-08-2005, 01:50 PM
Laws and treaties won't stop anyone from making and deploying the small AP mines.

In many cases they are put in by what can only be called terrorist organizations (aka local militias, liberation armies, etc).

The small ones are specifically targeted at civilian populations. Can't say it plainer than that.

It is a way of denying access to an area, like farm fields. More effective than the Romans salting the fields, the rain does not fix the problem.

I believe the Russians air-dropped tens or hundreds of thousands of the little "butterfly" ones over Afghanistan during their invasion.

mattc
03-08-2005, 01:59 PM
how about HAARP I think it would have to capabilities to deactivate landmines

Matt in AK

ibewgypsie
03-08-2005, 04:55 PM
Let the lil Grey aliens take care of them. That makes as much sense. Ya know they probably have a anti-personel mine deactivator on thier spaceship.

That is if they are done hauling that iron ore to China using the space-time continuim theoreum devised by a man who plagurized most his thesis from his wife. (ALbert Eienstien)

David

BillH
03-08-2005, 06:06 PM
Be nice if they did some mime removals in New Orleans.

ibewgypsie
03-08-2005, 06:10 PM
Or washed the urine out of the alleys? I was walking down the riverfront in Savannah, A gust of wind hit me, I thought.. GEE, this reminds me of New orleans.

David http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Rustybolt
03-08-2005, 06:30 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Here is an example of a chain flail that would probably work well for deactivating many small anti-personnel mines. It just needs to be mounted on a pickup and driven by an auxilary engine with hydraulic pump in the box of the truck.

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=44004&x=7&id=159300</font>

They already have several in Afghanistan. They are made from prime movers (tank movers)

I mentioned military aircraft radar because it is powerful and can be directed, and it's already available.

dvideo
03-08-2005, 08:14 PM
Mine removal is the first area that ground based AUV could effectively exploit. As you said, though, mines are cheap. So $50 AUVs are going to be needed.

--jr

Tuckerfan
03-08-2005, 08:20 PM
How about teflon coated .22 bullets fired into the ground at a high rate of speed (say from a gatling gun)? The teflon should allow the bullets to penetrate the ground fairly deeply, and wouldn't cost a heckuvalot of money. Use bismuth instead of lead, so you don't have to worry about ground/water contamination.

wierdscience
03-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Some one mentioned us spending money on removal,well we are,a lot infact.
The guy I worked with developed the first liquifaction study and did the experimentation on the military's tab.We are removing mines from several areas in SE Asia.And there are more places around the world on the list.
The money spent was for dual use,both for removing mines laid years ago and those laid down by the enemy last week.

JRouche
03-08-2005, 10:46 PM
For detection, dogs. I have seen some puppies find small amounts, (very small amounts) of explosive material inside a werehouse.

Some day the scientists that be will put MORE effort into replicating the olfactory sensors of the common pooch, very powerful voodoo.

And for destruction after identification, I like the chain flail for the shallow units and maybe a ground pounding apparatus for deeper weapons.

JRouche

darryl
03-08-2005, 11:40 PM
Question- what's the preferred method of neutralizing a mine after it's been detected? And what is the biggest problem- finding them, or rendering them harmless?
I think the vibrating the earth thing has merit- kind of like what Tesla did with his mechanical oscillator.
I tend to agree with those who feel that it isn't hard to detect most of them, and determine their exact positions. How many of those could be taken out by a ground penetrating, laser guided 'tripping' device? Something like a 'model' version of the real laser guided bomb-
But what do I know of these things, basically nothing.

wierdscience
03-09-2005, 12:00 AM
Finding them,destorying them can be done by many methods,some in place some in production after retrival.

Resonant frequency,I don't think anyone has tried that,could be interesting.

darryl
03-09-2005, 12:12 AM
Or, as someone else has alluded to- send in a plague of locusts. How many lawyers, criminals, drug dealers, judges, politicians, etc, will actually fit into a C5? Give each of them a mine finder, and a VERY small parachute. To uphold their 'rights', give them a choice- home in on a mine and get blown to bits, or hit the ground between mines and lay there mangled and in pain, knowing that no-one is going to be coming in after them. This will be good for them, they'll be redeeming themselves, giving back to society as it were.
I'll cough up for some of the fuel for the plane.

darryl
03-09-2005, 12:32 AM
Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be so harsh with those blights on society.
Anyway, just thought of another possibility- if the resonant ground excitation idea could be tried, it might make it possible for another sensor system to map out the density and/or the integrity changes in the excited zone. Individual objects might show up as waves of 'sound' wash around them. Maybe what's needed is a two-fold emitter system, one to attune to the ground frequency, and another to emit a signal through the vibrating earth. Maybe something space based like SAR could be enhanced by this.

hammerhead74000
03-09-2005, 01:44 AM
RE: Mechanical Ground Resonance:

Space based systems are not required - it can be done off of the back of a pickup - a beat up old one, at that. You just need to put a few low frequency pickups at the far end of the minefield to guide the resonant process. On the truck is a computer (cheap/old PC will do, or you could cook up a microcontroller based solution) controlled pneumatic exciter, driven off of a compressor that bolts to the engine (similar to the way that off-roaders add one to air up their tires while on - err, make that off - the road)

I think it will generate enough disturbance to set off the mines by itself, although if need be, you could use wave-travel mapping (similar to the methods used for sonar and ultrasonic imaging) to reveal the positions of discontinuities in the ground, and go after them with a machine gun (I hear the coax on a M1A2 works great for this). Add a gps receiver to the imaging system, and objects in the captured images can be re-located later.

Evan
03-09-2005, 02:01 AM
It would be nice if it were that easy. But even the explosion of a large amount of explosive won't set off nearby mines. The detonator takes positive pressure, bending, deformation, torque, etc to set the mine off. Vibration isn't likely to do it.

The chain flail is a proven method but it isn't feasable to ship large tanks or tractors to all the regions that need it. A unit needs to be developed that is cheap and easy to repair and that can be hung off the front of the ubiquitous Toyota pickups that infest asia. It won't get all the mines, nothing will. It will greatly reduce the numbers.

hammerhead74000
03-09-2005, 02:29 AM
It's not just "vibration" - like what you get from a concrete vibrator, or a whacker - as I understand it, Tesla was generating earthquake-like results from a machine in his basement (obviously, I haven't tried this myself, so I can only go by the tales of this experiment from years past). Even if the mines didn't go off, I do think that the imaging methods are worth investigating; as you can target anything seen on the scanner with a gun. Also, it seems to me that the act of burying something ought to disturb the local ground density, and therefore it's speed of sound, in a detectable way.

Just my $0.02 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Jim Luck
03-09-2005, 03:14 AM
Hammerhead, I got two of those earthquake machines in my living room. It's called a 18"-1000watt RMS sub-woofer and along with my 10"-200watt RMS sub I found out my neighbors do go off!!. ALL KIDDING ASIDE, our government has a limitless amount of our $, and if there was a "perfect" way to diffuse/eliminate these devices I'm sure we would have. At least I hope so.

Alistair Hosie
03-09-2005, 03:39 AM
What we need is a mine detector combined with a lie detector and strap them to the necks of politicians and get them to walk over the area repeating and reminding us over and over again how honest they are and how they will transform all our lives if we only trust and believe in them.If yhey are telling us the constant truth then they have nothing to worry about do they?????? I wonder how long they would last before the big bang http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Alistair

hammerhead74000
03-09-2005, 03:56 AM
Well, nothing in this world is perfect... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Just because the government has money doesn't mean that they have ideas - all through the 40's, 50's, and 60's they poured mass quantities of funds into developing the Air Force, but didn't come up with the F117 until the late 70's as I recall (Have Blue, Tacit Blue, etc). Also, I get the impression (perhaps I could be wrong, sometimes it's sooo hard to tell online http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif ) that you are selling both of us short in the intelligence and inventiveness department - ideas come from all sorts of places (Hedi Lamar inventing spread spectrum techniques is one example that comes to mind), not all of them well-funded (have a look at Servo magazine sometime). I guess what I'm trying to say, is please have some faith in the rest of us that circulate outside of governmental circles... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif OK, OK, enough ranting... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

OT: 1.2Kw worth of subs... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

aboard_epsilon
03-09-2005, 10:24 AM
why dont they use one of these.
I used to opperate one of these in my last job.
tuff as old boots.....

http://www.greavescotton.com/dosco.htm

J. R. Williams
03-09-2005, 10:51 AM
I agree with an earlier response- line up the Lawyers- but add the Politicians, and send them thru the mine fields. Part of my military time was spent in the old SEDR school at Ft. Belvoir teaching the repair of Mine Detectors and the only reliable one was the Probe. It did not require batteries and was always ready to use. The mines have changed considerably since that time- even more devious. We had to find the wood cased mines with the glass detonator and the Krauts had one that responded to the 1000 cycle signal from our detectors. I am thankful we only worked with inert devices.

JRW

Jim Luck
03-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Mr Hammerhead: I don't think for a minute private citizens are not up to it!. The government uses the idea's from us regular citizens, puts large amounts of $ into them to see if they work. At least this is how I understand it. I would like to think that a problem like this would have the utmost attention of our government, and who else can come up with the amount of $ needed to work on the problem. I mean, the gov. used Einstein, German scientist after WW2, private corperations to develop stealth aircraft, etc. I sure hope the government puts every effort into eliminating this attrocity!. If I am wrong, let me know!!--
I feel bad that you took it like you did, in no way did I mean to imply that!!

Jim Luck
03-09-2005, 04:28 PM
Mr Hammerhead: I don't think for a minute private citizens are not up to it!. The government uses the idea's from us regular citizens, puts large amounts of $ into them to see if they work. At least this is how I understand it. I would like to think that a problem like this would have the utmost attention of our government, and who else can come up with the amount of $ needed to work on the problem. I mean, the gov. used Einstein, German scientist after WW2, private corperations to develop stealth aircraft, etc. I sure hope the government puts every effort into eliminating this attrocity!. If I am wrong, let me know!!--
I feel bad that you took it like you did, in no way did I mean to imply that!!

hammerhead74000
03-09-2005, 05:32 PM
&gt;&gt; I feel bad that you took it like you did, in no way did I mean to imply that!!

I know you didn't mean to - and that's why I'm not mad or offended. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

What I was perceving was an underlying attitude - one that's subconscious - and that permeates the entirety of a persons thinking, without them having the slightest idea that it's there. Now, trying to judge this from a few posts to a BBS is hard, and fraught with uncertainty - so the fact is I very well could be misinterpreting you; and given that I have called your attention to the possibility, and your response, I'll take your word for it. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


&gt;&gt; puts large amounts of $ into them to see if they work

Only if it suits their ends - consider the space program. Last year, there were only four flights: one Russian Soyuz, and three flights of SpaceShipOne - some stuff we are going to have to do ourselves. I do believe that, as land-mines are not on US soil, they are not nearly as high a priority as they could be in government - few voters missing arms, legs, or family members screaming at the legislators for money and effort directed at the problem. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

Alistair Hosie
03-09-2005, 06:16 PM
Mark If I could get that device into my laundry room would it drill the hole in the wall I need for my cables etc ? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gifAlistair

wierdscience
03-09-2005, 08:38 PM
Well the very idea behind having so many people working on the problem all over the world is maybe somebody will think far enough outside the box to hit the ball out of the park.
It may end up being a variety of methods,the bigger mines aren't too bad,it's the little ones that are the Pita.Like I said earlier,they are plentiful.A quickly trained person can lay 4 per minute,x 60 and that's 240 per hour.So if we have ten guerillas,laying 240 per hour,in three hours that's 7200 mines.Sounds like a lot,but there are cases where a ten acre field has be found to contain 250,000.Right now there are two methods,1 cordon off the area forever,or scrape the ground and bury the residue.
There was a device built that looked like a sheeps foot packer,it works effectively on mines as small as a baseball,but the little ones you can run it across the field and you might get 30%,but the rest are still there buried too deep for it to be effective.

[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 03-09-2005).]

hammerhead74000
03-09-2005, 10:53 PM
&gt;&gt; Well the very idea behind having so many people working on the problem all over the world is maybe somebody will think far enough outside the box to hit the ball out of the park.

My thoughts exactly http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

&gt;&gt; it's the little ones

Hmm - ultrasonics? I dunno - my gut intuition still says that that there's something in resonating the lil' sucka's... either that, or my gut's trying to tell me it's time for dinner... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

KENZ
03-10-2005, 02:14 PM
I have been lurking around on here for a few months. I have an interest in getting a small lathe and mill sometime in the future. I have learned a lot of interesting things searching through and reading new and old topics on the forum. I saw this thread and thought I'd contribute a link on this topic. Here is a US company that is making mine resistant vehicles for the military. Though they are troop carriers seems like they could be adapted to clear mines pretty effectively.
http://www.forceprotectioninc.com/models/buffalo/

Evan
03-10-2005, 02:41 PM
How about flying a military jet at mach one+ just over the fields? The highest overpressure recorded was 144 lbs per sq ft from a F-4 at 100ft altitude. I'm sure we could do better now. Insta-clearance!

mayfieldtm
03-10-2005, 04:34 PM
Instead of dragging chain, drag some Canadian Machinists. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Oh, Oh, Please don't flame me, I just couldn't help myself.

A better fix is to just Nuke them.

Tom M.

spope14
03-10-2005, 04:41 PM
Whoever said the problem is not in the US has not taken a walk out in the woods lately. Out in the woods where the druggies grow their crops, they are now employing mines on occassion to protect their investment.

These are not mentioned loudly, but it is happening. Your National forests and shared resource reserves such as hunting lands and such are slowly becoming mined by the outlaws.




[This message has been edited by spope14 (edited 03-10-2005).]

Tuckerfan
04-22-2005, 12:08 PM
This might help folks find 'em. http://news.uns.purdue.edu/hp/Weiner.ultrawide.html

madman
04-23-2005, 06:16 PM
Every year we usually bag one or two cows for big barbecues. Night hunting with supressed .270 works well and that russian night vision scopes kinda handy. If anyone needs a cow come on up theyre all over out in the country. Just watch out for old farmer brown and his 30-06. A guy just got shot dead in front of his two kids stealing a old guys chrismas tree. Amazing world we live in.

madman
04-23-2005, 06:20 PM
Hey mayfield why not use americans theres wat too many of them. Just look theyre in every country in the world with there guns ect except canada. We all own moose rifles maybe theyre scared to invade. They sure cant drink beer worth a **** the ones ive partied with, LOL.