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View Full Version : OT: 180 MPG Hybrid. Sorta.



Tuckerfan
04-30-2005, 08:16 PM
You have to plug it in, to get it. http://www.mixedpower.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=449

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Plug-In Hybrid Vehicle Powered by Valence Battery Unveiled at EVS 21

New Concept Car Developed With EnergyCS Offers Dramatically Better Gas Mileage and More Zero Emission Driving Than Existing Hybrids

At the 21st Worldwide International Battery, Hybrid and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Symposium & Exhibition (EVS 21) being held next week, Valence Technology Inc., a leader in the development of large-format Lithium-ion rechargeable batteries, and EnergyCS, developers of integration control systems, will showcase a new concept plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.</font>
Frankly, I find the battery technology more interesting than the car.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Valence's phosphate-based Lithium-ion batteries have substantially higher energy density than competing batteries for hybrid electric vehicles. And, unlike other types of Lithium-ion batteries, our Saphion technology offers the longevity and safety needed for both hybrid and pure electric vehicles," said Stephan Godevais, president and CEO of Valence Technology. "The Valence-EnergyCS plug-in hybrid vehicle is a breakthrough in the industry. It allows renewable energy to displace gasoline, reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, which is increasingly important given today's environment and economic concerns."</font>The whole 180 MPG sounds great until you realize that you have to charge the batteries via your wall socket to get it.

Yeah, I know, those cars would reduce our dependence on foreign oil and would reduce air pollution if they were in wide spread use, but would they really? First of all, how many people could be bothered to plug in their car every day? Secondly, how much is it going to drive up their light bill? Third, how many people live in apartments where plugging in their car would be difficult, if not impossible? Fourth, what about the increased load on the electrical grid if these things became common? In some places, the power grid gets overtaxed in the summer time with the use of A/C units, adding a bunch of cars to the mix is going cause even more problems.

ibewgypsie
04-30-2005, 08:20 PM
Actually at nighttime the current draw on a power station is much less.

The local utility has a mountain lake reserve and pump/generator station. (Racoon mountain)
They pump the water up when the power is very cheap at night, let it flow when daytime start up is needed for surge.

SO, if you plug your car in at night it'd save energy all the way around. Big power plants have to "ramp" up energy and not shutting them back would keep them more efficient.

David

PSD KEN
04-30-2005, 08:36 PM
Well, let's see; A large city on the verge of a Brownout in the summer, 50k commuters come home and plug in .......

BWS
05-01-2005, 04:00 AM
Give me a shout when that's "180mph Hybrid"

Your Old Dog
05-01-2005, 07:51 AM
So I'm on my way to the left coast but run low on fuel. Do I have to have a dinner break somewhere everytime I need to be refueled? Hell, sometimes I don't even shut my engine off when I refuel (I know, a mass crime against humanity). Waiting for a charge sounds like fun if you can do it someplace interesting, say a bar, tavern, pub or beer hall http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

If we can't have nuclear power for our homes because it ain't PC, how is charging your car going to reduce emmissions. It may reduce emmissions on the car but what about the power plant. I truly don't get it. I still believe you can't get more out of something then what you put into it and that we can only convert it.

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 05-01-2005).]

Rustybolt
05-01-2005, 09:04 AM
How much energy is used to make the batteries/car? How much is used to charge the car. How safe are they? Will the car protect you as well as an SUV/pickup?

BillH
05-01-2005, 09:13 AM
Apparently it can time travel as well if you look at the thumbnail picture on the webpage.

ibewgypsie
05-01-2005, 10:31 AM
(tow a small trailer with generator? Ran by conventional gas engine?)

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

ibewgypsie
05-01-2005, 10:40 AM
Bullies on the interstate! Used to be "stupid running late truckers" who didn't sleep and ran up just mere feet from your bumper. If one does that nowadays just get online with DOT and get thier Company address and phone number and the phone number inside thier cab. They pull licenses, make them "stayover" and give big fines for offensive driving.

Nowadays it is some small blonde with "poofy" hair in a SUV. Did you know them things are big and powerful? if you get in thier way they might just run your small car/truck over and kill you dead. And scratch thier bumper. SUV's have a battering ram of a "real frame" under them about mid door height on a small car.

They are the fastest thing on the highway. I know I spend a lot of time on interstates. Ohh to be a policeman for a day. Mace and Pistol whip some of them little ladies. One thing for sure, Most the very expensive SUV's have insurance, most the older cars around here don't. Some don't even have licenses and the police don't care. Slave labor for the local mills are not even usually citizens.

3 Phase Lightbulb
05-01-2005, 10:43 AM
The best electric car is the one your using right now... How many times have you drove this e-car to an e-store, made an e-payment, and didn't have to leave your house?

From stop sign to stop sign, it's also one of the fastest e-cars at 186,282 miles per second.

-Adrian

gizmo2
05-01-2005, 11:06 AM
I'd say the biggest problem right now for any vehicle that needs to be plugged in; most of the electricity in this country is from coal fired plants. So the pollution is still being generated, just a different source.

Our state (Wyoming) bought its first hybrid vehicle about six months ago, and it is the only vehicle with a waiting list to drive it. It's quiet and has a very nice ride, drives and handles well, easy to park, etc. And these people aren't buying the gas, so why should they care?

Current crop of hybrids charge the battery as the vehicle is decellerating; they don't ever need to be plugged in. As the battery technology improves, I think they will become a better option. There's other technology that can be developed, but I don't think that will happen until the gas/oil industry becomes interested. Cuz lets face it, politically they pretty much have us in a strangle hold at the moment.

Rustybolt
05-01-2005, 01:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gizmo2:
I'd say the biggest problem right now for any vehicle that needs to be plugged in; most of the electricity in this country is from coal fired plants. So the pollution is still being generated, just a different source.

Our state (Wyoming) bought its first hybrid vehicle about six months ago, and it is the only vehicle with a waiting list to drive it. It's quiet and has a very nice ride, drives and handles well, easy to park, etc. And these people aren't buying the gas, so why should they care?

Current crop of hybrids charge the battery as the vehicle is decellerating; they don't ever need to be plugged in. As the battery technology improves, I think they will become a better option. There's other technology that can be developed, but I don't think that will happen until the gas/oil industry becomes interested. Cuz lets face it, politically they pretty much have us in a strangle hold at the moment. </font>


The marketplace is open for anyone to compete. The trick is to have something people want to buy.
If you can come up with an alternative fuel vehicle that has the performance and towing capability of a full size pickup,at about the same price, you'll have to beat em off with a stick.

The american buying public has gone through the econo death box phase.

ibewgypsie
05-01-2005, 01:37 PM
New coal fired plants grind coal into small bits, blast it into the furnace with a jet of air. It hits a plate, flash fires, Smoke goes out the stack with a Scrubber to remove most the harmful acidic gases, then to a static cell unit to remove most the particulant matter with static charges of electricity.

Most people are unaware that the modern coal furnace under ideal operating (peak) times is efficient and relatively clean. Trouble arises when throttling back to a less efficient level when "slippage" of pollutants are escaping. Utilizing a coal fired plant to maximum generation/ minimum pollution is a excellent ideal. How to store the "power" thou? In small cells in autos is one way. Utility controlled chargers (like water heater controls) to turn on with minimal demand times.

"YOUR septic tank pollutes", Methane gas escapes into the atmosphere. "YOUR house is too large for the occupants", "YOUR car is too large for the load it carries", "Your desires are too large for your wallet" most the time.

Address the problems in "your" life and the worlds problems will ease up considerably. Just common sense. Riding in a auto that weighs 1600 pounds with a 120hp engine is much more fun than riding in a 3 ton SUV with a 220 hp motor. Problems is when items collide. Inertia and mass matter.

Gee, SOunds like a tree hugger? Sorry. Truth is I have lived in a 24x24 house for 3 years and My Wife desired a larger less efficient home. (so she can pile more junk)

ibewgypsie
05-01-2005, 02:28 PM
ANyone else see on Discovery channel the "rent-a-auto" system?

You reserve a auto online for a specific time. Urban transportation to it's last spot, pick it up, use it with a keycode. Monitored are the speed, direction, and all things happening to the auto by computer. Damage it, pay for damages. Much cheaper than "keeping" a auto in a big city. Especially for the occasional user.

I kinda feel that way about a large vehicle/truck. I rarely really need one. My mini-truck does well and gets 25mpg. Imagine the cost savings spread over several users for a large truck rental. Considering I pay about the monthly charges on insurance alone on my truck Uhaul or hertz would make more sense at times, once or twice a month. And then the upkeep, changing the oil, tires, etc. It costs over $.25 a mile. That is a reoccuring thought. The big truck sits, depreciating.
The lil truck with it's much higher hp/pound gets drove more on simple light trips. Of course while building on the house and making daily trips, owning was much cheaper.

I got friends who have $200 cars. Hard to insure, if you get hit you lose it all. But then you are just out $200. And you can park it anywhere and be "safe" knowing it will be there as long as you want it to. (unless towed) Most old junk type vehicles the towing people don't even want because they can't get rid of them for parts, just scrap. Not enough to mess with. I see old 70's 80's cars sit on the interstate for weeks.

wierdscience
05-01-2005, 05:05 PM
Unfortunatly the left is pretty much running the enviromental movement in this country.And worse yet the Green Nazi's are prone to knee jerk reactions.

Take for example the dipsh-- group ELF(Earth Liberation Front)these stoners fought back against SUV's and ther polution they cause by setting 75 brand new ones on fire.Idiots didn't think about all that smoke from burning tires,upholstry and plastic going into the sky.But like they say that crack don't smoke itself.

The trouble with knee jerks is when you decide to water the dessert you end up drying up an ocean to do it.

PSD KEN
05-01-2005, 08:53 PM
ELF has burned houses under construction, a "save our trees" message.
So, more trees are cut to replace houses.
Too many nut groups in this country.

rsr911
05-02-2005, 12:48 AM
Last month I calculted the cost per mile for my '03 4x4 Ranger, even with my big discount from Ford the cost over 100,000 miles worked out to $0.45 per mile. This includes gas, insurance, cost of the vehicle, maintence, and expected repairs. I had thought about buying a larger truck but instead bought the Ranger with the largest engine and greatest towing capacity. If it don't fit in the bed it will fit on my flat bed car trailer. I've hauled drywall, plywood, kitchen cabinets, two mills, a surface grinder and countless other things besides cars which I originally bought it for. Cost per year is only the plates which is covered every year by renting the trailer out to friends or even saving them a tow buy showing up with truck and trailer, they gladly pay me half what the tow company would charge.

Back on point though, as hydrogen fuel cell technology develops it will get cheaper, like cell phones and TVs. Currently a vehicle sized cell cost about $40K, I remember when "car phones" were $4000 now they almost give them away.

What peeves me though is some of our environmental laws. According to my brother who is a Ford engineer the European version of my truck is available with a turbo-diesel with more torque and towing capacity than my 4.0SOHC motor and much better fuel economy. he told me they won't bring the option here because of leftist California and some other states emmisions laws. What a shame, think of a mini truck tooling along at 30+ mpg yet still able to two 6000+ lbs. As an aside I was told recently by a trucking company I do computer work for that their trucks get 5-6 mpg. When you consider the weight these things pull plus the weight of the tractor and trailer it's easy to see why a diesel mini truck would be great. One of our part time workers has a turbo-diesel Golf, I think she said it gets 45 or more mpg!

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-Christian D. Sokolowski

bolmas
05-02-2005, 06:07 AM
my wife has a vauxhall corsa, powered by a 975cc 3 cylinder DOHC engine. it carries 2 plus luggage in comfort,does 56 mpg at 70mph and has a 9.5 gallon petrol tank. i certainly dont want anything bigger with petrol at £3.74 per gallon!!

wierdscience
05-02-2005, 08:02 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">What peeves me though is some of our environmental laws. According to my brother who is a Ford engineer the European version of my truck is available with a turbo-diesel with more torque and towing capacity than my 4.0SOHC motor and much better fuel economy. he told me they won't bring the option here because of leftist California and some other states emmisions laws.
[/B]</font>

I have seen exactly two diesil Rangers,both were 84 or 85 models with a Perkins turbo diesil.Ford used to offer it here,but lke you said the folk from "Granola land" screwed that one up.
Strange seeing a Ranger that didn't sound like a Ranger http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 05-02-2005).]

mayfieldtm
05-02-2005, 10:15 AM
I still want a car that runs on SEX!

Tom M.

ibewgypsie
05-02-2005, 11:55 AM
Mayfield.. They all do, the dealer screws ya.

HA..

Perkins powered rangers, now, that is a pleasant ideal. Unless of course they screw it all up like they did the 3/4 1 ton trucks with sensors and computers and so much complicated crap it won't run without a towtruck on call.
I have had 5 friends purchase a Ford diesel only to have mucho heartbreak. Union electricians use thier trucks to move thier campers from job to job. One in the shop ain't working.

The engines in school buses are still commercial engines that last and last, the thing to do is to purchase a old bus, purchase a 1 ton chassis and marry the two. Imagine a real allison transmission too.

if the throttle still hooks to the injector pump, it's a commercial engine.

ibewgypsie
05-02-2005, 11:57 AM
*double post*


[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 05-02-2005).]

rsr911
05-02-2005, 05:37 PM
I have to admit after riding in my brothers 347 stroker 302, aluminum headed and custom Kenne Bell supercharged Ranger splash that I've been curious about putting a powerstroke diesel into my Ranger. Hmmm let's see all the towing power of his truck without premium gas at 8 mpg. Seriously he has a neat truck and it can spin all four wheels but it's about useless to drive with the cost of gas and all the money and time he's put into it. He even fabbed up custom headers on a separate frame, modified the blower snout etc. all for a truck that can still get passed by a lightly modded Mustang getting better mpg.

Curious to learn about the troubles with the Ford diesels, all the guys around here that have them swear by how tough they are. But I've been thinking along the same lines of using a commercial diesel in a pre-80 chassis (no emmisions testing). For awhile I had an F100 short bed with a Lincoln 460, pulled a trailer like nobody's business but couldn't pass a gas station. The same truck with a diesel would have been cool as heck. Probably even weigh the same as my 4500lb Ranger. One of these days....

------------------
-Christian D. Sokolowski

ibewgypsie
05-02-2005, 06:14 PM
RSR:

Are you aware, 2 stroke oil increases the octane level of fuel dramatically. (also increases the shelf life)

I used to run it in my panhead, factory 11.5:1 compression. Without it, it sounded like pop corn. Ohh for the days of Sunoco 260 premium. (I had a built 750 honda w/12:1 that ran it) It'd have a blue flame coming out the header at 100mph. (yeah running rich, high overlap cam) I kinda wish I had that bike back. I totalled it three times. Not much left.

David

rsr911
05-02-2005, 08:14 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
RSR:

Are you aware, 2 stroke oil increases the octane level of fuel dramatically. (also increases the shelf life)

I used to run it in my panhead, factory 11.5:1 compression. Without it, it sounded like pop corn. Ohh for the days of Sunoco 260 premium. (I had a built 750 honda w/12:1 that ran it) It'd have a blue flame coming out the header at 100mph. (yeah running rich, high overlap cam) I kinda wish I had that bike back. I totalled it three times. Not much left.

David</font>

Yup, so does toluene which I get free from work! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif Used to make my own race gas for the drag car with it. Pretty cheap when you buy toluene by the drumload.

I've seen a lot of turbo 911's shoot flames out the back even on regular gas, with the motor in back there is little room for much of an exhaust. The drag car used to spit flames from time to time as well, same thing, a little rich and lots of cam. I made sure to run the fuel lines well away from the header collectors. Somewhere I've got a pic a buddy snapped of my crossing the finish line at night, flames at 130mph are way cool, it's a shame I never got to see it. Well maybe not, driving the car was plenty of excitement http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif . Now that I'm married with child I just tinker on the old Porsche and dream of the toys I could have.

------------------
-Christian D. Sokolowski

wierdscience
05-02-2005, 09:11 PM
I saw an oilfield Ford 450 with a turbo supercharged Waulkesha diesil in it,boy did it sound sweet.Guy that drove it said"40 foot hotshot trailer and 20,000lbs of drill pipe no problem" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I wish I could shoehorn an old two cycle Detroit into a one ton.I would have the loudest,nastiest most enviromentaly incorrect vehicle in town http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif