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QSIMDO
04-24-2005, 11:04 AM
Anyone experienced with this machine, moreover in relation to the 9x19 they offer?

I'm aware of the obvious differences but are there things I'm missing since, well, truth be told I've no idea what I'm looking at?

No it's really not THAT bad, just sort of like I can do things on a lathe it'd take you guys 30 seconds to do with a file and a rusty hammer.
I am but a humble grasshopper. ;O)

QSIMDO
04-24-2005, 02:14 PM
Forgot this

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9972Z

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 02:30 PM
I am but a novice myself but I do own the machine in question. That said, I will weigh in with merely my own observations and opinions. I have never used a 9x20 but I did give them thorough consideration before purchasing the G9972Z.

What I did was drive up to the nearest Harbor Freight to see a 9x20 in person. I wasn't impressed at all with the 9x20. It was much smaller than I had imagined it to be. This may be fine for some but not for me.

The G9972Z is nearly twice the weight of a 9x20. Overall it is just a more substantial machine. It has a 1" Spindle bore as compared to the 3/4" Spindle bore of the 9x20. The carriage can traverse six more inches of bed allowing work to be done on longer pieces.

With the 11x26 you get more swing over the bed, a bigger motor, six more inches of bed to work with and more crosslide travel. You also get a 3/4" - 8 T.P.I. leadscrew as compared to the 9x20's 9/16" - 16 T.P.I leadscrew.

From a hobbyist point of view, if I had to do it all over again, I would still go with the G9972Z. Weighing in at around 450 lbs It is small enough to move around without TOO much trouble yet it is heavy enough to handle some more serious work. With proper attention to setup it is capable of plenty of accuracy for the average home shop machinist.

If you have any other questions about this machine feel free to ask. I will answer them to the best of my abilities.

claw
04-24-2005, 03:10 PM
I have spent about the last tear trying to convince myself this is enough lathe for me. I just need pushed over the edge. Schutzhund- Is there plenty of tooling available for it? ie. ball turners, cut off tools, knurlers, internal -external theading tools, parting tools etc. Also whats the maximum size piece that could be machined in it? Are the gear changes for speed and threading time consuming and difficult? I guess I dont want to regret it later that I should have gone with a 12x36( although I dont have the room) Sorry for the ignorance, this is the only outlet of machining tech. I have found. And its only been 2 weeks ago!

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 06:32 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by claw:
I have spent about the last tear trying to convince myself this is enough lathe for me. I just need pushed over the edge. Schutzhund- Is there plenty of tooling available for it? ie. ball turners, cut off tools, knurlers, internal -external theading tools, parting tools etc. Also whats the maximum size piece that could be machined in it? Are the gear changes for speed and threading time consuming and difficult? I guess I dont want to regret it later that I should have gone with a 12x36( although I dont have the room) Sorry for the ignorance, this is the only outlet of machining tech. I have found. And its only been 2 weeks ago!</font>

Tooling: not a problem..plenty out there that will fit this machine. I recommend that you pick up a quick change tool post such as a Phase II for even quicker tooling setup.

Gear changes: are accomplished by swinging open the door on the left side of the machine, removing the "c" clip that retains the gear you wish to swap and switching it for another gear.

Speed Changes: are accomplished by opening the door on the left side of the machine, losing one bolt that holds the belt tensioner against the belt and placing the belt on a different pulley set. If you find this to be too time consuming at a later time you can always swap out the motor for a variable speed treadmill motor and controller and have speed changes at the turn of a dial. Check out Steve Bedairs' modification to his 9x20 here http://www.bedair.org/Tmotor/Tmotor.html
for more info on that subject.

I dont consider ANY of these smaller machines to be "production" units. If you are trying to produce parts quickly and in great numbers then by all means buy more lathe.

If you can afford a 12x36, have room for one and have a means of moving a 1000 lb+ machine when you need to, then by all means go for it. If you are looking for a capable machine for prototype work or hobby work the 11x26 will probably suit you just fine.

I cannot speculate as to the "maximum size piece that could be machined in it" as I have not tried turning anything really big in mine. With an 11x26 you have 26 inches between centers and 10-3/4 inches of swing over the bed. The hole thru the spindle is 1" in diameter. So... If you need to machine parts that are MORE than 1" and diameter AND longer than 26" then you will need more machine. A Grizzly 12x36 has a spindle bore of 1-7/16". If you need to do really long parts that are larger than an inch in diameter then a larger machine would suit you better.

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 06:38 PM
-Edit

[This message has been edited by Schutzhund (edited 04-24-2005).]

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 06:40 PM
-Edit

[This message has been edited by Schutzhund (edited 04-24-2005).]

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 06:43 PM
Bah! I hate board code! =) Every board is different and I am a little rusty. Just clicky the links! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/big%20closeup.JPG

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/Palmgren%20dist%20angle%20(Medium).jpg

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/jensen01.JPG

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 06:53 PM
AH HA!!!

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/big%20closeup.JPG

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/Palmgren%20dist%20angle%20(Medium).jpg

http://www.tedatum.com/thms/BBoard/jensen01.JPG

Now...how do I EDIT a post here? hmmmmm :/ Nevermind, I found it =)

[This message has been edited by Schutzhund (edited 04-24-2005).]

claw
04-24-2005, 09:24 PM
WOW!! thanx for the pics. It really helps. I guess what I meant by size is how far the chuck will open to accept a piece.I wish this conversation would have taken place a year ago Id be making chips right now.

Sprocket
04-24-2005, 09:50 PM
Consider that 150 RPM is the slowest speed.
Large diameters or threading may be difficult at that speed. Also, is there power crossfeed?
does it matter to you? How big is the drive belt? the 9x20's had a puny belt - 5 mm wide I think. It would be good to see what you are condisering buying in person. Maybe Grizzly can tell you of someone nearby who has the same machine.

QSIMDO
04-24-2005, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the info!

That seems like it'd suit my needs quite well.
Small bits, fiddly things, turned & burnished doo dads, mostly for motorcycles and tractors.
And at 500 lbs. it's a stout device for sure.
Any of that come apart for ease of movement?

Schutzhund
04-24-2005, 11:55 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sprocket:
Consider that 150 RPM is the slowest speed.
Large diameters or threading may be difficult at that speed. Also, is there power crossfeed?
does it matter to you? How big is the drive belt? the 9x20's had a puny belt - 5 mm wide I think. It would be good to see what you are condisering buying in person. Maybe Grizzly can tell you of someone nearby who has the same machine.</font>


The main drive belt on the 11x26 is also much more substantial over the 9x20 belt. It is a cogged belt measuring 3/4" in width. It looks much like this:

http://www.precisionroller.com/img/J2682.th.jpg

The secondary belt is a 3/8" V belt (like an alternator belt on older (pre serpentine belt) cars. The rest of the geartrain is all metal gears.

There is no power crossfeed on this lathe, which is no big deal to me. Unless you do alot of facing of large parts it wont be much of an inconvenience.

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 12:10 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by QSIMDO:
Thanks for the info!

That seems like it'd suit my needs quite well.
Small bits, fiddly things, turned & burnished doo dads, mostly for motorcycles and tractors.
And at 500 lbs. it's a stout device for sure.
Any of that come apart for ease of movement?</font>

When I have to move mine I pull off the chuck. (It is threaded onto the spindle and you just use the chuck keys to loosen it). I also pull of the tailstock and the crosslide. I suppose if one wished to further lighten the load they could also pull the motor off but I never bother. I have moved mine three times. Once from the crate to the bench. Once into the back of my truck for when I moved to another house. And finally from the truck to the bench again. The first two moves were accomplished by four adults with no mechanical assistance. The last move was done with a 2-Ton engine hoist like this one:
http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImages/engine/RSC-2TF-L.gif

I went out and purchased the hoist just so I could move my machines around without bothering anyone. It works well and folds up for easy storage. Not too shabby for $220! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif




[This message has been edited by Schutzhund (edited 04-25-2005).]

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 12:27 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by claw:
WOW!! thanx for the pics. It really helps. I guess what I meant by size is how far the chuck will open to accept a piece.I wish this conversation would have taken place a year ago Id be making chips right now.</font>

The 3 Jaw chuck that comes with the lathe is 5" in diameter and the jaws open up enough to hold a piece of 2-1/2" round stock. For round work larger than 2-1/2" in diameter a larger chuck could be fitted to the machine.

claw
04-25-2005, 11:09 AM
No cross feed? Doesnt the lever on the carriage switch to that?

BillJ
04-25-2005, 11:45 AM
[QUOTE]Consider that 150 RPM is the slowest speed

I'm a rank amateur too, but I think the 60 rpm minimum on my 12 X 36 is still too high.

For a cutting speed of 100 fpm at 150 rpm, your work dia is about 2 1/2". As the diameter increases you get farther away from ideal cutting speeds.

With 60 rpm, I get 100 fpm at close to 6" dia. All depends on what work you want to do, I guess.

Also: I think you said this was the only board you had found so far? It's excellent; so is http://www.chaski-test.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php

Mac1
04-25-2005, 12:44 PM
Schutzhund
The lathe in your picture doesn't match anything in the 2005 Grizzly catalog. What is it?

QSIMDO
04-25-2005, 01:16 PM
Mac, page 459.
They show "new gear box" instead of the old quick change.

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 01:25 PM
claw- The lever you are talking about is for engaging the carriage feed. With a flip of that lever the carriage moves to the left under power for turning operations. A power crossfeed is for FACING operations. It moves the crosslide away from you (when you are standing infront of the lathe) to facilitate facing operations. This machine does not have a power crossfeed. For facing operations you must turn the crossfeed wheel by hand.

Mac1 - The lathe in the pictures above is actually the older Grizzly Model # G9972. The machine I have and the machine we are discussing is a Grizzly Model # G9972Z. The "Z" series is a slightly improved model over the plain G9972. The only differences I can see between the two are that the "Z" series version has two dials on the gearbox as opposed to the older lever design for switching gears, the on/off switch has been upgraded to include a safety cover that locks the switch to off when the cover is closed (in other words closing the cover will turn the machine off), and there is a small "window" for viewing the oil level of the gearbox. You can see these differences in this pic:

http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pics/jpeg500/G/g9972z_det1.jpg

claw
04-25-2005, 02:09 PM
No, the other lever below that, sticking outward. Is it not a selector to switch from the carriage feed to the crosslide feed?

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 03:53 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by claw:
No, the other lever below that, sticking outward. Is it not a selector to switch from the carriage feed to the crosslide feed?</font>

Nope...

http://www.moderntool.com/new%20pics/CQ6128A%20carriage.jpg

The small lever is to engage the fine feed for turning and the large lever is to engage the halfnuts for threading.

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 04:03 PM
Here are some more pics. This particular one is offered by Modern Tool as the Modern Model CQ612A 11" X 26" Bench Lathe in Canada but it is the same machine as the G9972Z offered by Grizzly.

http://www.moderntool.com/new%20pics/CQ6128A%20lathe.jpg

http://www.moderntool.com/new%20pics/CQ6128A%20headstock.jpg

BillH
04-25-2005, 04:53 PM
The lathe has no tumbler reverse. Just an observation.

Schutzhund
04-25-2005, 05:25 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BillH:
The lathe has no tumbler reverse. Just an observation.</font>


No, it doesnt. But one can be fabricated for it just like the 9x20 guys do. Without it, lefthand threads are not possible nor cutting away from the chuck.

Like this: http://bedair.org/Tumble/Tumble.html

[This message has been edited by Schutzhund (edited 04-25-2005).]

claw
04-26-2005, 02:07 AM
No facing is a bummer. I guess I really need to see one in person before making a decision. Ever turm any ball knobs aor the like with yours?

claw
04-26-2005, 12:01 PM
The bedair website is very nice. And VERY inspiring!!

claw
05-07-2005, 01:49 AM
Does anyone have anymore input?????????? Please?!?!?!?!?!?

JCHannum
05-07-2005, 07:28 AM
How much input do you need?

The lathe is a larger version of the 9" machines, and has all of their drawbacks in a larger package.

It will do adequate work, but will take refining to make a decent machine.

The lack of power crossfeed, high spindle speed and non reveersing feedscrew are deal killers in my opinion.

Schutzhund
05-07-2005, 08:08 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JCHannum:
How much input do you need?

The lathe is a larger version of the 9" machines, and has all of their drawbacks in a larger package.

It will do adequate work, but will take refining to make a decent machine.

The lack of power crossfeed, high spindle speed and non reveersing feedscrew are deal killers in my opinion.</font>

Lets just cut to the chase here. Which lathe do you use in your home shop?

What machine has none of the drawbacks you mentioned and where can claw buy one?

How much will he have to spend? With those questions answered I think claw will be able to make a decision.

QSIMDO
05-07-2005, 10:39 AM
I can't speak for Claw but I appreciate the info that's been offered because that's what was intended by the original question.

The interests at hand are a balance of how much to afford, where to put the machine, how much skill exists to apply to the process, what will be made on the machine and how critical are the tolerances...a real "hobby" effort.

I read Bedairs site and thought "there's 6 months of part time work just to get the 9x19 running!?"

Personally, I'm just looking for a new, inexpensive machine to craft up spacers, shafts, doo-hickies, etc.
I know the area is lousy with 2nd hand machines with tons of options but in my instance the space, skills/talents and abilities to inspect, evaluate and correct a used machine do not exist.

Fact is though, I look at the 11x26, then look at the 9x19 AND their small bench top mill together for the same price as the 11x26 and think "gee here's also a way to fool around in both areas."

Yes, if there is an -inexpensive- machine with all the bells and whistles I'm sure Claw and I would like to know but research shows that's not really going to happen.

Schutzhund
05-07-2005, 12:05 PM
QSIMDO,

If you are considering the smaller machines,here is a site that you may find interesting. It includes the most highly modified Harbor Freight 9x20 I have ever seen along with a mini-mill from Homier.

http://www.stellar-international.com/lathe.html

claw
05-07-2005, 02:11 PM
Qsimdo you took the words right out of my mouth. I TOTALLY appeciate everyones input. It helps a ton. Special thanx to schutzhund for putting up with my many questions and all of his links and pictures. I have had experience with a very large lathe at my former job as a fabricator and was expecting a home lathe to do all the same. I now know that this is not possible due to all the limitations I have in regards to room and stairs and what not. So I will just make the necessary upgrades as needed. Then maybe in the future will upgrade tto larger machine. Who knows..............