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Evan
06-20-2005, 11:52 AM
Go to Hinton, Alberta. My daughter took a few pics around town the other day.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/help.jpg

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 06-20-2005).]

IOWOLF
06-20-2005, 04:44 PM
7,8,$9.00 Per hour cdn thats about what US$?

5,6,$7.00?

Evan
06-20-2005, 04:46 PM
The good jobs aren't posted on the help wanted signs. The fact that there are so many service jobs is an indicator of how well the economy is doing there. In Ft. McMurray the defacto minimum wage is around $10 per hour even at McDonalds.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 06-20-2005).]

cam m
06-20-2005, 05:10 PM
Alberta's economy is at a fever pitch. Any place associated with the energy industry is stretched for labor of all types. Wages are ecalating and inflation can't be far behind.

.RC.
06-20-2005, 06:40 PM
Well at $8.00 an hr wages would want to be escalating....

Minimum wage here in Oz is around AU$12.00/hr

[This message has been edited by Ringer (edited 06-20-2005).]

Evan
06-20-2005, 06:58 PM
What you don't see on the help wanted signs are low skill level jobs like mill cleanup. $17 to $20 for sweeping up sawdust and unjamming wood handling equipment. Basic oil patch laborers start at about $22 per hour and if they are willing to live in a camp onsite can make $100,000 a year. Skilled workers can make a lot more.

mochinist
06-20-2005, 07:14 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Go to Hinton, Alberta. My daughter took a few pics around town the other day.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/help.jpg

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 06-20-2005).]</font>


I am gonna take that pic and go show it the illegals that hang out on the street corners looking for work here in Phx. Maybe a few will go up your way. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Smokedaddy
06-20-2005, 07:20 PM
Hell, I'll even help pay their way up there! They'll take those low paying jobs at half the going rate. Is that Phoenix Arizona, or Old Mexico ... hard to tell nowadays.

-SD:

[This message has been edited by Smokedaddy (edited 06-20-2005).]

Evan
06-20-2005, 07:29 PM
That's already happening. The strawberry crop is coming in and there aren't enough local pickers in the Vancouver area. On the news they said the are flying in mexican pickers and even as far away as the Carribean.

Your Old Dog
06-20-2005, 08:00 PM
Evan, you're right about the signs. I noticed the same thing here in the US about 10 or 11 years ago. The fast food joints started giving everyone a job application for a place mat. Our economy is such that you can't get into a restaurant to spend your disposable income without waiting 1/2 hour for many. That's on a Wednesday night, not Friday!

The machine shop at the end of the road has a rust help wanted sign out.

I admire a lot of this kids who take these menial job and work'em so hard. Sometimes I don't think these kids understand how much some of us admire them when they step up to us, put up a tired smile and say "Good afternoon sir, what'll it be" Sometime I just damn well know from the fire in the kids eye he's gonna be somebody when he grows up. I'm not real good around kids but everynow and then you look into the eyes of your equal, at less than 20 percent of your age.

I think it's pretty neat that your daughter put all those signs together. I take it as a sign that maybe the worlds gonna be in better hands than we think. Has she built any flame throwers, thermonuclear devices or other hostile apprati yet? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 06-20-2005).]

IOWOLF
06-21-2005, 06:46 AM
"I think it's pretty neat that your daughter put all those signs together. I take it as a sign that maybe the worlds gonna be in better hands than we think. Has she built any flame throwers, thermonuclear devices or other hostile apprati yet? "

BAD DOGGIE ! BAAAD DOGGIE ! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif
ROTFLMFAO

pete913
06-21-2005, 07:25 AM
Got a friend in Calgary who tells me a halfway decent CNC setup man can just about write his own ticket up there and in Edmonton about now. Calgary's a real nice town too from what I've seen of it. Might have to check it out if they keep systematically destroying the US economy down here.

woman
06-22-2005, 12:30 AM
Hi. I'm the one who put the pics together. (note: you're going to get a rant here...)

I work at one of the three small local grocery stores. We can't hire a body to save our lives. Not high school girls not anything. There is so much work available here in Alberta is is ridiculous.

I have never seen anything like it before. Stores all over town have cut back on their hours due to lack of staff. The staff you do hire has no incentive to keep their job. They know full well that if they don't get that day off they want they just won't show up. If they are fired... so what... they go to the next place walk in the door and start working.

What about job references you say... nobody bothers with those anymore cause they're just happy someone "wants" a job.

These are pictures of signs I took without bothering to get out of the truck. They are all low level entry positions. There are so many people moving into town to work at high paying oil and gas industry jobs ($24 and up entry level) that the housing can not keep up. There are no houses to be bought and not enough companies to build them. If the guys that are working the rigs are not bringing families into town then there are no wives/teenagers and such also looking for work.

The hotels are booked up solid every night of the week. We are doing so much business at the grocery store the irony is that we are making enough to support another full time postion!

Anyway, the collage of pictures started when a punk kid went through my till and complained that although he had graduated high school he was unable to get a job. I may have gone off on him a bit. The pic has been sent to the paper along with a letter and the title "GET A JOB"

Rant off.

Take care,
Sarah

crewchief
06-22-2005, 12:54 AM
i just saw a show on sbs tv australia saying small towns in america have serious unemployment problems ,because wall mart is buying all its products from china,a trillion dollars in profit worth each year.wall mart is now affecting american balance of trade with china. people should take those jobs,got a feeling they wont be around much longer.

Evan
06-22-2005, 12:56 AM
Not much of a rant. Believe me, I know.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

BTW, she's a manager there.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 06-22-2005).]

crewchief
06-22-2005, 01:01 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ringer:
Well at $8.00 an hr wages would want to be escalating....

Minimum wage here in Oz is around AU$12.00/hr

[This message has been edited by Ringer (edited 06-20-2005).]</font> ringer we live in the lucky country

woman
06-22-2005, 03:14 PM
We have a Wal-Mart. They have help wanted signs up too.

They're having a hard time getting workers at the mine. It's just crazy.

The actual minimum wage here is around seven dollars. It just went up from five. It was a mute point since no one has been paid minimum wage around here for years. That means entry level positions are paying a couple of bucks above minimum just to get people in the door.

I would guess that although Australia has a higher minimum wage that we have aprox. the same standard of living.

Take care,
Sarah

toolsrul
06-22-2005, 09:49 PM
Tell us what a carton of cigarettes cost up there? Cost of living is in relation to the pay.

woman
06-22-2005, 10:08 PM
Alberta prices: (taxes on smokes differs in each province)

Carton of smokes: 8 packs of 25 smokes $70
Loaf of bread: $1.19
4L of milk: $4.50
1kg of cheese: $6.99
Top sirloin steak: $8.80/kg
1 kg of coffee: $5.67
Chicken legs: $2.18/kg

Here in Alberta fruit is where we pay through the nose...


Take care,
Sarah

P.S. all are regular prices.

Tuckerfan
06-23-2005, 01:31 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
What you don't see on the help wanted signs are low skill level jobs like mill cleanup. $17 to $20 for sweeping up sawdust and unjamming wood handling equipment. Basic oil patch laborers start at about $22 per hour and if they are willing to live in a camp onsite can make $100,000 a year. Skilled workers can make a lot more.</font>So, where does a Yank need to go to apply for one of those $100K jobs and can I bring my cat?

Evan
06-23-2005, 02:31 AM
At the moment you would have to apply for a residency permit from Canada Immigration. If you have a job offer in writing that is about all you need to get in. Upcoming possible changes in the rules may make it possible to simply walk across the border and work.

Zep
06-23-2005, 05:44 AM
only problem is if your good, plan on some serious work hours
1991 guy was hurting so bad for a programmer
he paid my flight out
booked me into a reasonable hotel he had account with
paid half my costs for 45 days
supplied me with truck for 3 months
return expectation was high
12 hours a day
10 hours saturday
8 hours sunday

since the 50's Alberta has always been the place to go to find work. Have to admit though this is the most active Ive seen it .
The tales coming out of alberta of machinists making 100k are year are not legends. If your willing to put in the hours and find the right job it is possible to reach those numbers. What I am hearing is that any good CNC MACHINISTS can write there own ticket

tryp
06-23-2005, 06:37 PM
Low paying jobs are in extreme abundance in Alberta, the great paying oils field jobs are mostly in the experienced or family/friends category. Mind you there are a few to be had for outsiders that have spent a few hundred for all the safety courses that are required for the patch.

And the 10 dollar minimum wage (Fort McMurray) is crappy when a single bedroom apartment costs 1400 a month, I have friends that had been there and done that, thay had to live several guys to an apartment.

woman
06-24-2005, 12:21 AM
It's true about Fort McMurray and the housing. It is unreal. An 1100 sq ft. 1970's home on a city lot goes for about $400,000. No joke.

Hundreds of guys work there and are bussed home to Edmonton and Calgary for their days off. They live in camps while they work. Not ideal for the family man but great for the single guy. There's nothing to spend your money on while you're sitting in camp. A boyfriend of one of my cashiers just bought a house, he's 18.

Paying a couple hundred to get your first aid courses is nothing when that's your first day's pay.

It's just not true that oil rig jobs are just for family/friends. What they want here is people who are willing to work, period. Yes, you're going to get a lot of hours. It's a hell of a lot better than not enough.

Take care,
Sarah

crewchief
06-24-2005, 12:39 AM
dosent it snow thier???????????????

Evan
06-24-2005, 01:17 AM
Nah. It almost never snows when it is -50.

crewchief
06-24-2005, 01:25 AM
100 grand a years not enough

Tuckerfan
06-24-2005, 02:38 AM
If I recall correctly, hookers are legal in parts of Canada.

quasi
06-24-2005, 12:51 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by woman:
It's true about Fort McMurray and the housing. It is unreal. An 1100 sq ft. 1970's home on a city lot goes for about $400,000. No joke.

Hundreds of guys work there and are bussed home to Edmonton and Calgary for their days off. They live in camps while they work. Not ideal for the family man but great for the single guy. There's nothing to spend your money on while you're sitting in camp. A boyfriend of one of my cashiers just bought a house, he's 18.

Paying a couple hundred to get your first aid courses is nothing when that's your first day's pay.

It's just not true that oil rig jobs are just for family/friends. What they want here is people who are willing to work, period. Yes, you're going to get a lot of hours. It's a hell of a lot better than not enough.

Take care,
Sarah</font>

Having lived and worked inAlberta all my life, as an Electrician, you can make 100 k as an electrician if you work in Mcmurray and live in the camps. It is a horroble life for a single man, there are virtually no women. Most of the guys that work these camps are married, and want to get away from their old fat wives and screaming kids.

There are lots of things to spend your money on in the camps, gambling , alcohol and drug use are rampant. There are buses to town every 15 minutes and 100's of hookers. There are charter flights every weekend to Vegas, and in the winter to Mexico also. You tell your wife you are working the weekend and then spend it in Sin City. If you are working a Union job, you are guarented your own room, 100 sq' ft. Non union, you can have as many as 6 guys in almost the same space, sometimes having to hot bunk it. Either way you share a washroom with 8 toilets, 4 urinals, 8 showers with 100-300 men, most of which are barely housebroken.

People I have worked with who have been to prision, say camp life is quite similar to prision life in some respects. And when you make your 120,000 for a years suffering, the federal government's tax rate is 52%, and then add the rate of the province you reside in on top of that, it varies from another 10% (alberta) to aprox. 50% in some other provinces.

Really you can make almost as much money living in town and working lots of OT. The construction trades especially have been so put down and demonized by school teachers and society in general that almost no one is entering the trades and the average age of a journeyman is around 58. Half the people I hire really should be on disability, they are so old and worn out, most can't do 3 hours a day of real hard work, and we are happy to get them.

Evan
06-24-2005, 01:09 PM
"hookers are legal in parts of Canada"

Nah, they're called "escorts".

cam m
06-24-2005, 06:30 PM
Hi All

Further to the "friends and family" comment for rig labor... PITS (our industry training service) runs a 1 week new hire program that does have a significant cost to it +/- 900$CDN, but includes orientation and all the necessary tickets for your first day. Local contractors video the last days activities and recruit via phone-no pavement beating. Several contractors have set up dedicated rigs as training units and run inhouse courses. Some they have moved from Alberta to the Maritimes to minimize travel costs for the recruits. Wages start at 18+ $CDN/hr with an allowance for clothing and "subsistence of +/- 100 $ CDN/dy, OT at 1 1/2 after 44 hrs/week or 8/dy, OT at 2 1/2 for stat holidays. The contractors have a significant portion of their fleet (+/- 10%) parked 6 months a year due to labor shortages.
Sound good? Now the bad news. 250+ days/yr away from home doing heavy physical labor for 8 to 12 hour shifts in all weather conditions on two weeks on 1 week off. Holidays paid out at 8% of straight time (seasonal employment). Job security as good as your last hours work, last week's weather, political climate, or the world oil price.
Our safety record is still improving, but even so as an industry we have had 2 fatalities in fires and numerous traffic related deaths due to erratic hours and long distances since Oct 2004. Camp jobs? Housed in mobile housing (double occupancy)with the same +/- 20 people you spend the work day with, all watching the same TV, with no internet access, eating food prepared by someone else who may or may not share your culinary preferences. Been there, done that.

Not for everybody. The energy industry has always been very cyclic. The old saw says one day chicken, feathers the next. Alberta has a lot of manufacturing based in the three largest cities. ALL trades are in high demand. Relatively little union work.

woman
06-25-2005, 02:52 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by quasi:
And when you make your 120,000 for a years suffering, the federal government's tax rate is 52%, and then add the rate of the province you reside in on top of that, it varies from another 10% (alberta) to aprox. 50% in some other provinces.

</font>

The rates I just looked up were 29% federal on $120,000 and 10% provincial in Alberta.

Your other points about living in camp may be true for some camps but for others not so. The camp order I put together every week includes rib eye steaks and prawns every week.

I'm tired and I'm cranky from working my ass off today and I'm sick of hearing about people complain about hardships that come along while making $120,000 a year. What happened to being happy you had work.

All the conditions at camp may be miserable but I would put it up against dealing with 300+ customers a day at a tenth the pay anyday.

Take care,
Sarah

cam m
06-27-2005, 10:47 AM
Hi Sarah

Yep, steak & prawns one day a week, breakfast cooked to order, soup and two entrees twice a day all sounds great until someone who can burn water spoils the good food consistently and over cooks the prawns (can you say erasers?) See also the above re menu selection (not your decision), internet (none), one television, shared accomodation, no room for hobbies, and living out of a suitcase for weeks on end. My travel bag stayed packed between laundries for 20 years. A clear case of the grass being greener... Yes the money is good, but there are reasons for the increase in wages.

Cam

P.S. I'm grumpy too, my clients can't make decisions, the contractors all want answers, there isn't enough hours in the day, and family life is in a rough patch I may have to take some holiday time to solve. Thankfully, I no longer have to wait for "compassionate transportation" out of camp to go attend to family issues or deal with them via telephone. Camp life really sucks when Granny passes and you're at least 48 hrs to home.

[This message has been edited by cam m (edited 06-27-2005).]

Evan
06-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Camp life is about the same as being in the military except it pays much better and no one is shooting at you. For a single guy it's a way to make a lot of money in a hurry. I had a job offer back in the 70s that I almost took. It was installing telecommunications equipment in Saudi Arabia. It paid $40,000 per year plus a $10,000 year end contract completion bonus. I would have taken it if it weren't for the fact that my daughter had just been born.

Camp cooks make or break the job. The quality of the food is the absolute single most important thing in a camp.