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aboard_epsilon
06-19-2005, 10:58 AM
Finaly sussed out the electrics,
On My Fritz Werner 2.210 universal mill
Fritz now runs in all his speeds and all motor directions....and quietly. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif thanks to a new bearing that i put in on the fan end of the motor £5.40
All I've got to do now is put the knee back on followed by the table and let him take a few cuts to proove himself.
if all goes well ......will be followed by a strip down and paint in the original war surplus khaki green...but gloss instead of semi-gloss.
all the best.mark



[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 06-19-2005).]

Alistair Hosie
06-19-2005, 03:44 PM
Mark how do you sex a milling machine might be a little girl http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif well done in the meantime make sure you get your £0.99p worth http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gifAlistair

aboard_epsilon
06-19-2005, 05:40 PM
Do they name little girls in Germany Fritz.
if so he will be having a sex change http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
btw my German speaking neibour recons werner is pronounced... not verner.....but varner..is that right Alistair.
All the best.....mark

aboard_epsilon
06-20-2005, 01:09 PM
It was all about pressure washing today......didnt want to trial assemble it because all the parts were covered in grease with muck stuck to it.
looks like a pile of scrap at present....
the photo is of the undersides of the table

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/pres1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/pres2.jpg

all the best..mark

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 06-20-2005).]

aboard_epsilon
06-22-2005, 03:33 PM
Not tried the vertical head on yet
but here is the machine fully assembled.
tried the table traverse today .works fine.
quite clever in that its auto-reversing.
despite its apearence it has very little wear on it
and should look superb after the spray job

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/side.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/front.jpg

all the best...mark

3 Phase Lightbulb
06-22-2005, 04:12 PM
Well, if it doesn't work out, it looks like you could make a cool table saw for the wood shop with it http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

-Adrian

matador
06-22-2005, 06:11 PM
Ask Alistair for options on green paint,he's the expert on that particular colour! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

------------------
Hans

aboard_epsilon
06-27-2005, 05:21 PM
Took my first cut with it today.
worked fine,
No buffeting ,vibration or motor strain...I've come to the conclusion that it's a very well made machine with little wear on it.
... but the 7 diametre x 1/4 thick HSS cutter was turning a bit fast.
Has anyone any idea of the rpm for this size of cutter I should be aiming for.
please dont quote feet per min...as the speeds of the spindle table are all in rpm.
I dont want to get in to maths....just a ball park figure will do.
eg.
2 inch ..equals ......so many rpm
3 inch ..equals ......so many rpm
and so on and so on up to 7 inch
some thing in the way it's cutting tells me it should be at 30-40 rpm.
I have carbide tipped cutters as well......what would be the percentage speed increase on these.
The table speed charts are in feet per min though.
I can work that out myself just by how its cutting and the feedback it gives me...sound,heat,noise and the look and colour of the chips etc.
all this info I want,just to get me started on it ....to just quickly give me an idea where to begin...once I've sorted that, it's all down to my senses to fine tune the different set ups for the change gears.
all the best....mark


[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 06-27-2005).]

rockrat
06-27-2005, 05:30 PM
So.... you gonna paint that thing huh? What type paint are you planning on using? Been thinking about some paint for the ol Van Norman and I have been trolling for ideas on paint types.

rock

aboard_epsilon
06-27-2005, 05:58 PM
Well it's going in this colour.
which is as close as I can reproduce here that shows what it was originaly

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/COLOUR.jpg
sorry Hans it's green

will have a word with my local paint factors as regards the type of paint.
they tell that they have an industrial grade 2 pack and they will mix it to the colour of my choice ......works out I have to get 5 ltrs min ...price includes the activator .with...what ever mix ratio it turns out to be, i will end up with over 8 ltrs of paint for about £50..............I've come to the conclution that two-pack car paint is too soft for machines.......and the above quatity would have cost me over £150 in car paint.
Primer also 2pack as I've stated before, will be darker that the finish coat..this is because if I get scratches .they will not stand out like a sore thumb.. but look like just a dirty smear.
This is a new idea I'm trying with the primer..fingers crossed.
all the best..mark

aboard_epsilon
06-28-2005, 06:14 AM
Ok Rock
Ordered the paint today.
It's made by Ameron International
the primer that I'm using is called Amerlock 400c
this is a full 2 pack epoxy.
described as
high performance self priming universal high solids low VOC....SEMIGLOSS..THIS WILL BE MIXED TO THE COLOUR I'VE CHOSEN.....which just so happens to be called spruce.

It will be spot primmed first in the rough areas with a brush then rubbed down and given 2 mist coats to seal the surface, followed by heavy coats..
when cured it will be finished with polyuethane 2 pack called .
Amercoat 450s.
Described as gloss aliphatic polyurethane topcoat.
These coatings are reconed to be just about the best avalable by my paint factor.
if anyone would like to see the data sheets on this stuff i have it ..and I can scan.
All the best..mark

Alistair Hosie
06-28-2005, 03:49 PM
Let me have a copy mark will you please ?Alistair

aboard_epsilon
06-28-2005, 04:26 PM
pdf's !!!!

http://www.ameron-bv.com/products/product_data/pdf_set.php?lang=engl&line=indu&cat=&code=400c&free=&ordner=p

http://www.ameron-bv.com/products/product_data/pdf_set.php?lang=engl&line=prot&cat=&code=450e&free=&ordner=p

all the best..mark

aboard_epsilon
06-28-2005, 04:54 PM
BTW the above
This is not a recomendation for this paint.
if all goes well with the application of the stuff and if it lives up to expectations ..then it is a recomendation.
stay tuned for my expliots.

Be a while yet as in currently modifying one of my old shaper gears to drive my verticle head...
stroke of luck ...one of the old shaper gears just happens to have the exact pitch of the other driven gear on the head
and I don't have to worry about the centres as it is adjustable for this. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
just have to figure out how to mount the gear on a int30 arbour.

Also have to make an arm that captures the vertical head off the top of the coluum swings it out of the way and puts it into storage mode..so I dont have to struggle.

As well I have turn and engrave new buttons for the main stop start switch
all the best..mark

Alistair Hosie
06-29-2005, 12:20 AM
Mark would an int 30 with a stub for a jacobs chuck do?Alistair

aboard_epsilon
06-29-2005, 04:51 AM
i dont know .looking today.
all the best.mark

aboard_epsilon
06-29-2005, 12:45 PM
Some views of it with its universal head on during trial fit today

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/lsidehead.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/rssidehead.jpg


This is on the head anyone know what it means... babelfish gives me
"this carries out when assembling first firmly against more main body pulls"
which don't make any sense
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/badge.jpg

all the best..mark



[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 06-29-2005).]

jburstein
06-29-2005, 01:48 PM
my best shot is "during assembly, first pull this guide rail firmly against the main body."

I speak pretty good German, but technical german's a whole different language as far as I can determine, so I'd give that about an 85% confidence rating.

-Justin

edited to add punctuation

[This message has been edited by jburstein (edited 06-29-2005).]

aboard_epsilon
06-30-2005, 08:08 AM
Thankyou Justin.
For the quick reply.

TO THE OTHERS who didnt
obviously, not many people are looking at my posts. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif
as the amount of German being typed out the other week would indicate that a lot of you "other chaps" think they speak it. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

wish this site had a counter for the views of posts ......then I could determin if there's any interest in the stuff I'm putting on here.
or If I'm wasteing my time informing you all of my exploits.
on the other hand if your reading this you are one of the very few who have taken interest..and I thankyou.
all the best..mark


[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 06-30-2005).]

ricksplace
06-30-2005, 08:59 AM
Mark -

I for one appreciate your posts. I read most of what is posted here, especially the technical and machinery related posts. I don't reply often since I have nothing to add, or the technical stuff is way over my head. I'll bet there are lots like me on this board that read and learn a lot thanks to the posts and pics like you have here. Keep it up!

I have an old lathe (11" swing, 4' bed) with a milling attachment and quite a bit of tooling. Some day I hope to add an old milling machine. Posts like this one help me learn about the older machinery and what to look for.

Rick.

Alistair Hosie
06-30-2005, 09:12 AM
Mark you got a good explanation of the translation what more can anyone offer?there is little point in translating the same thing more than once is there?perhaps that is why no one added to what was written . Alistair

jimmstruk
06-30-2005, 10:00 AM
I. like ricksplace enjoy your posts and most of all the great photos. Keep them coming Please!! jim

Alistair Hosie
06-30-2005, 10:38 AM
Like the others I am excited about bringing this beaty to life if for no other reason than to prove to the doubters that you can do it. I have and have always had faith in you and want to see this completed and painted as I think it will be great Alistair

aboard_epsilon
06-30-2005, 10:59 AM
Thanks guys for the encouragement ..I need all I can get.
As you guys are the only people who see these machines of mine .
Up here in North Wales UK,there arent many people who are into this home shop machinst lark.....so I'm basically on my own.
I like to think that if I show off my work here it makes me do as good a job of restoring it as possible.
and by showing my work and my mistakes I hope others can learn with me how to do...or sometimes how not to do something http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Nearly every machine I buy needs work on it.
what I do make sure of,is that there is not a great deal of wear on the machines I buy.
most are fixable even on my limited budget.

Guys dont be put off by nasty paintwork and a bit of surface rust on cast iron.....try and see this just as superficial...try to see the finished product.
some grotty machines hide a gem underneath..(remember my j&s grinder)..be aware of this and use it to your advantage when buying it will save you lots.

Some little-used machines that originly cost a lot of money can look like sh*t after only a few months storage..means the price can be driven down......WHEN BUYING that's the opertunity to look out for.as it's NEARLY always superficial rust.

Anyhow back to the grindstone .....next job is a jig/gantry/crane sort of thing that will be bolted onto the side of this machine .....so that removing the universal head will be a lot easier.
I will need to remove and replace the head several dozen times in the next few days ....as I'm trying to make a driving gear for the head........from an old shaper gear...original was missing.

The crane will be of a design that blends in with the machine ......it will not be too heavy looking or cumbersome to use.
hopefully some pics of this crane tomorrow.
all the best..mark

John Stevenson
06-30-2005, 11:00 AM
I think it would look better in red with yellow go faster stripes.

Evan
06-30-2005, 11:16 AM
Jburstein translated:

"my best shot is "during assembly, first pull this guide rail firmly against the main body."

About all I can add is instead of "guide rail" it can also mean "edge" or "bar" or "bracket".

Alistair Hosie
06-30-2005, 11:21 AM
Hey John could you paint a few go faster stripes on me.Bronwen wants to know http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Alistair

Al Messer
06-30-2005, 11:23 AM
Mark. you just hang in there---you're making great progress--I'm jealous--I ain't got no mill no how!!

sandman2234
07-03-2005, 04:33 PM
Only German I speak is "Maho" and that translates to a 600P. Not even sure if that is a good translation, but that is what the book says.
I did enjoy the post, dispite the language barrier.
David from jax

[This message has been edited by sandman2234 (edited 07-03-2005).]

aboard_epsilon
07-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Here it is warts and all.

The lower half was already with the machine the upper half I had to make myself.
I had to also do a few mods to the lower half as it was welded up cock-eyed.

Ready to take the weight and swing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/part1.jpg

Swings clear
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/halfoff.jpg

Parks up... also showing full assembly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/wholething2.jpg

This is the bit i made to pick it up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/adapt2.jpg

all the welds will be dressed down before painting

POST CARRIES ON HERE:-

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//Forum1/HTML/012656.html

ALL THE BEST...mark



[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 07-12-2005).]

sandiapaul
07-05-2005, 04:07 PM
aboard_epsilon,

your posts are NOT a waste of time! I enjoy seeing the progress of bringing a machine back to life. Keep it up! Oh, nice mill too.

bobbybeef
07-05-2005, 10:02 PM
Great post,
Sure is one sexy looking machine.
Destined as I am to be a minimill operator,I can still truly admire a really nice bit of engineering stuff.
The new colour will certainly add to its appearance,but will it loose some deep character lines in the process. Like your assist crane. Makes sense to me.Neat too.
Keep the pictures comming,well done so far.

bobby.

jburstein
07-06-2005, 01:45 AM
Very nice. I like it very much. Excellent way to keep from breaking your back. And no german needed.

-Justin

jkilroy
07-06-2005, 10:17 AM
Thanks for posting the pics of the lifting arm. I need to make one for my K&T, though a bit larger. The vertical head weighs about 400lbs, maybe more. I did find an original K&T arm for sale but the guy wanted $700 for it, uh, no thanks.

Could you possibly post an exploded view of the "bit you made to pick it up"? I would like to get a better idea of how you made it.

Great work, thanks for posting.

aboard_epsilon
07-06-2005, 01:19 PM
Is that a view of the whole of the top half of the arm or just the coupling section.
btw the whole arm could be made to go up and down if you threaded the section where it enters the larger upright tube.,
you could put a large eight inch diameter wheel on it with internal thread on it
say 20 threads per inch would give you the abilty to raise or lower 450 lbs with ease
As it is my arm just pivots around.
mine was going to go up and down .but when i realised it didnt have to ..I omited this part of the design.
all the best....mark

Is this your head ?
http://www.astratool.com/photos/2785-1.jpg



[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 07-06-2005).]

aboard_epsilon
07-06-2005, 07:10 PM
Thought this may interest you guys
here are some scans that I've cut down fron the manual for the model 3.210 fritz that the guy is selling on german ebay.
He kindly sent them to me.
The manual was printed in 1936......which goes to show how much in advance of us the Germans were.....I dont think machines like this apeared in uk till the middle 50's

This machine is a development of my machine .....which means mine is even earlier than 1936 or they were out at the same time

The manual does not show vertical head fitted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/fritzright.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/fritzleft.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/fritzfront.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/fritzbox.jpg

all the best..mark

jkilroy
07-07-2005, 12:09 AM
Nope, I wish I had a double swivel head, but it is only a single. What is the taper on that head you show in the pic? Mine is a 50 taper, the darn quill is almost 6 inches in diameter. I do like the fact that I have some quill travel, its about 5 inches of travel. Here is a pic that gives you a pretty good view.

http://www.maxscient.com/images/DCP_2635.JPG

aboard_epsilon
07-07-2005, 06:15 AM
no idea what the taper is its here for $2000

http://www.astratool.com/tooling/attlcat.htm#2A

all the best....mark

matador
07-08-2005, 01:34 AM
I can read german quite well,thank you.
On picture 4 it says"Fritz" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Good work though,Mark.If people like you didn't save these machines,they would be melted down to make chinese VW's.
Hope you get plenty of use out of it.

------------------
Hans