View Full Version : Craftsmanship

09-19-2002, 09:21 AM
good morning.

found this article at a yahoo board and found it to be as true today as it was 50+ years ago.


lotsa good stuff over there after you sort through the bull droppings.

happy thursday.

09-19-2002, 01:45 PM
You-all who post links like the above into Yahoo DO KNOW, don't you, that the stuff is NEVER accessible without a Yahoo password FOR THAT GROUP

Dick Payne
09-19-2002, 04:59 PM
I had trouble getting into the mill-drill group but found out it was my web browser.
I have an old version of netscape that would not let me enter all of the data required to become a member of yahoo groups. After updating my netscape browser everything worked fine. Both the netscape update and access to the yahoo groups are free.


09-19-2002, 06:34 PM
Pardon me, I didn't try to join, I am not INTERESTED in joining to see one posting.

That's the point, why post a link to somewhere you have to join up with and set passwords etc just to see?

Not trying to be grumpy, merely pointing out an issue.

Uncle Dunc
09-19-2002, 08:50 PM
>> I am not INTERESTED in joining to see one posting.

Ditto. It may make sense to require people to register before posting (although I frequent several forums that don't), but I avoid the places that want me to register even to read postings. How would you feel about having to register before you could browse at a bookstore, or a library? I asked the owner of one such forum why he imposed that requirement and after I stripped out all the hand waving and personal abuse, the answer was, "Because I wanted to." There may be lots of good information there, but I'll never find out.

09-19-2002, 10:04 PM
Ditto ditto.

Couple of years ago I was a registered member of a board dedicated to Alfa Romeo 75 - that's the Milano to those in the US. The board was on Egroups, and was straightforward to use.

Yahoo bought up Egroups. Took me weeks to transfer my registered details to the new Yahoo site. Don't use it now as it keeps losing my registration and was awkward even when I was on.

This Infopop stuff is great to use, especially the implementations that don't tart the site up too much.

Good stuff Neil.

09-19-2002, 10:43 PM
Ditto Ditto Ditto

I don't mind look at advertisements, but I hate boards that make you register just to look at postings. I bet more than half the registrations are full of bogus name, address, and e-mail that's made up or used only once (some like to send you password to your e-mail).


09-20-2002, 09:22 AM
Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto

Egroups had a good setup. It worked! Yahoo just want's email addresses to dump spam into. They also profit with the sale of email lists.

In the future, please supply a useable ID and password for those of us that just don't want to be a Yaahoo dumping ground.


Sorry for the abreveated rant. This is going to be a long day. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//mad.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//redface.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//confused.gif

09-20-2002, 09:47 AM
good morning.

please accept my sincere apologies for offering something to you.

the way i see it, it is your choice as to what you do with it. it isn't like i, yahoo, or anyone else is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do anything.

i read some of the yahoo stuff to try to learn a little more every day. same reason i read what is here. same for msn. sometimes the acquisition of that knowledge has a price, in this case it is registering with yahoo. that is why i have more than one email address. use one for stuff like yahoo and one for other stuff. one of them i delete everything that comes to it before i read it. less trouble that way for me. what you do is your choice.

as for myself, i kind of liked what the guy had to say. but that is me. you can and will do as you wish.

and since i have so properly been shown my place, i will refrain from offering much in the future. nobody is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to do anything either.

i do yope you all have a pleasant friday.

09-20-2002, 10:36 AM
Hi Bill:
Don't get upset with these BBS guys--they are for the most part a good bunch of guys. We still value everyone's opinion--even wrong advice sometimes teaches us something.

Some of you guys are a little too high and mighty to demand that everything on the internet be free and anonymous. Somebody has to pay for all our "free" fun. If you get a little spam, delete it. It is a small price to pay for the enjoyment we get from the internet. If HSM advertises on this site, I would rather see that than charge for membership. ( I love seeing tools anyway!) There is no free lunch--somebody pays for everything. I wish everyone health happiness and Joy! Loosen up and enjoy what we have. Thanks--Mike.

09-20-2002, 10:59 AM
thanks for the kind words, Mike.

i was/am not upset. life is too short for that.

i was a little amazed ot see such responses from people who claim to be so interested in 'craftsmanship'. myself, i am moe than willing to pay whatever it costs to learn more and do better work. perfect ain't quite good enough. [good thing i am not an inspector, huh????] and it doesn't matter to me if that payment takes the form of money or putting up with some assorted bull droppings in order to gain the knowledge.

got a friend who si 10 times the machinist i will ever be. he chews tobacco, dips snuff, and digresses a lot. of course, he is 80 years old and that has to be taken into consideration. any time i like to just listen to him, because in a couple of hours i can learn more than i can reading a book. practical knowledge. also the zen of it. for me, and it is ONLY my opinion, it is well worth the time and the bull.

i am offa my box now. too nice a day to be here doing this.

happy weekend.

Herb W
09-20-2002, 12:10 PM
I'm sure that the ditto posts weren't directed at you personally...believe they were aimed at yahoo.
In the months that I've had access to the net, I've gathered a great deal of usefull information by following links that people post - so please don't be deterred from sharing what you find!

As for the yahoo groups - there's a wealth of info available there! Groups dedicated to individual machines, machining in general etc. My experience has been that it need not be a hassle to participate in them. When I join a group I select the option of not having any emails sent to me from the group. Instead, I just visit the websites...when I choose & read what I find interesting...

mikem - I agree with you! Putting "stuff" on the net doesn't just happen - there is a cost. Let's not forget what a tremendous resource it is!

btw bill I had read the article that you posted the link to. E.T. Westbury was a pretty sharp fella!


[This message has been edited by Herb W (edited 09-20-2002).]

09-20-2002, 12:18 PM
Ok, I still am not grumpy. Here's an idea:::

Hows about letting us know that you gotta register to see the link?

Works for me, I often have little time, and following up on interesting links that shut me off when I get there means I get less looked at.
When I know there is red tape, I'll just skip it.

As for "free", I belong to several lists where there is a cost to be in it. So I DO understand paying for service.
Company websites, (like Hardinge, etc) are paid for as advertising, no $$ hassle there to see them.

BUT I am not going to register (and DEFINITELY not gonna pay) to see a casual link. So give us some warning.

Alistair Hosie
09-21-2002, 07:21 PM
I have been having terrible problems lately with a group in Nigeria who want me to open a bank account for them would you believe.Say they have millions just sitting around and cant get access to it as they are some official. Will share it etc etc etc you know the crap also porno stuff gay and otherwise all the time wish I could put a halt to it don't know how Alistair

09-21-2002, 07:35 PM
Alistar, I got that same email. There was a button somewhere in the Yahoo mail system to report this kind of spam. Maybe this abuse was from there own making.

09-22-2002, 11:54 AM
Hey, NEVER unsubscribe or Remove from an e-mail list. This is how they determine that your e-mail address is active, and all it does is get you more. Your e-mail is transferred onto one of those crappy CD's that get sold off to the jerks. Just delete, they disappear.

Also, never forward e-mails with numerous addresses on it. remove the addresses of the previous e-mail if so needed. I hate those junk forwards anyway. had some newbie to e-mail send me up to 30 of these a day, some with downloads clogging my box for up to 1 hour to see a freaking frog in a blender. I saved them back for a week, then one Friday evening I sent them back off. Took nine hours, but hell, I was alseep. Never got an e-mail from him again.

back to the forwards with multi addresses. Sometimes these end up in spammers hands, especially the ones from Disney and Microsoft (frauds). Shows an active address.

Those Nigerian things from prince Ubangi and queen Ubangme are the bane of my existance. My fear is that my kid may get sucked in. I also hate those foriegn ones that download a file to translate. I click that one off ASAP.

I get probably 55 e-mails day thanks to my older kid putting my e-mail out on every music site and game site in the universe, 53 are spam. This is down from 200, she moved out 10 months ago. Never give out e-mail to groups and such, how do you think Yahoo and other servers make part of their money - selling e-mails. Our server did that when it was sold, they lost 75% of their biz.

09-22-2002, 01:07 PM
Alistair, All
Please forward those West African Fraud letters to:


Most of these fraud letters orginate out of Ontario and Quebec, the RCMP and Phonebusters are working on nailing them for good. Any letter you get you shoould forward them to them.


[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 09-22-2002).]

09-22-2002, 10:59 PM
I've gotten that African offer twice in SNAIL MAIL. Hand written envelope, very interesting African stamps, but if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

charlie coghill
09-22-2002, 11:28 PM
Alistir and All;

I was getting the message from Africa. If fact had several.

My friend, who is very knowledgeable on computers told me how to get rid of the E-mail spam from Africa.

I use outlook express, go to the tool bar click on message, on the drop down window click on "creat rule from message" in the space for the rule type in something that is unique to that message, in the body of the message " Bank of Africa" for instance. The computer will look at that and reject that message.

It has worked for the last week or so, but who knows when they will get around that rule.

Hope this helps. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//tongue.gif

09-23-2002, 12:08 AM
Dear Oso,
Being a curious lad, I actually joined that group for free, it only took a few minutes, and discovered a whole new(for me) mother lode of good stuff, mainly the guy who started the group posting a fantastic series of articles from Model Engineer magazine, from the late 50's and sixties, all written by a guy in the same mould as Frank Mclean and Rudy Kouhoupt, called 'Geometer'. The series' are called 'Workshop hints and tips'and 'Beginner's workshop'and they are posted there for free. The moderator has the whole stock of back issues, and intends to put online the whole set. So great thanks to Bill for his gentle nudge in this direction...

Herb W
09-23-2002, 01:06 AM
RPM, All
Four more groups in the same vein:



[This message has been edited by Herb W (edited 09-23-2002).]

10-02-2002, 02:20 AM
I responded to one of those foreign money scams. Told them how they were an insult to the scammers of the world and if they would send me $10,000 i would send them a report showing them the errors they were making. Never heard from them again ...... didn't send me any money either.

Peter S
10-02-2002, 06:15 AM
Getting back to your original posting - I can't get that link to work, neither can I find it when I search the mlprojects files....am I doing something wrong, or has that file disapeared? What was the title of the file?

I can't find those two files you mention either...are they on the mlprojects site?? If so, can you tell me where?


[This message has been edited by Peter S (edited 10-02-2002).]

10-02-2002, 10:25 AM

link worked for me just now. 8:36 am 9-2-02.

it is a fact that you have todo some hunting to find stuff there.

thanks for the groups you mentioned, Herb.

to be honest, i will enjoy yahoo groups more once i figure out how to turn off the email. those guys do a lot of email.

happy wednesday.

Peter S
10-02-2002, 09:25 PM
Did you actually click on your link above? It takes me to a Yahoo page, saying "The requested file or directory is not found on the server"....

10-02-2002, 10:23 PM

i did earlier and it worked.

it does the same thing to me now.

i believe i recall getting some email that they had moved some files to make room for others.

if you wish, i will try to find the article for you again.

10-03-2002, 07:44 PM
Dear Bill R,
It's nice to be able to return the favour. I'm a member of several yahoo groups, and the e-mails are terrible. What you have to do is visit the web-site of the respective yahoo group that you're a member of. At the top right hand corner, I think in red, you'll see 'Edit my membership'. Clicking on that opens a window, and I think it's the third subject down it says'Message Delivery'. The last option of this subject is 'No e-mail- don't send me e-mails, I'll read them on the web-site'. Click on that option, and the flood of e-mails ceases.

10-03-2002, 07:51 PM
thank you, Mr. RPM.

you have made my day.

now if i could just get the Mrs. to quit looking at everything that says 'free'......