Smithy vs Shoptask

[rob319]

I am having a difficult time deciding which 3 in 1 machine I am going to get. Does anyone know of a resource on the net specifically comparing the pros and cons of these two models?
My brain leans towards the Shoptask, but my heart keeps coming back to the Smithy.
Would someone happen to know if the Shoptask has "dual powerfeed" as the Smithy 1324 does?
All comments appreciated!
Thanks,
Rob

[IOWOLF]

Neither, you will pro'ly be sorry, geta normal lathe first, and perhaps a milling atachment for it.and from there on whatever you can afford.
IMHO

[jstinem]

I have a shoptask 2000. It is a not a bad machine. You can do good work on it. You will have to learn its ways but then every machne has its own unique ways that must be followed. The older the machine more unique it is.

There are some ridgidity issues but I really think that they will be just as bad in the Smithy. Careful adjustment fixed a low of these issues. The shoptask was well build and I have had only some very small problems with it.

The Shoptask has 2 motors so you can use the lathe motor and leadscrew as a power for milling. You can ger a wide range of feed speeds by using the change gears. The lathe spindle does turn but this has not been a problem for me.

The Shoptask company have been very easy to deal with and resonded quickly to only parts issue that I have had.
Back in 2000 when I bought mine Shoptask was having delivery problems because the containers shipped from central China were taking a long time arrive. They quite up front about this at the time of the sale and I believe that did best that they could to fill the orders as quickly as possble.

Shoptask has a good forum on Delphi. You can learn about these machines from people have them there.

I bought the Shoptask because I don't have room for a large lathe and mill. I still think that I did the right thing.

[Milacron of PM]

"Smithy vs Shoptask".....like asking "should I kick myself in the ass with Red Wing steel toes or Wolverine "Big Horns"

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[dsergison]

Don, LOL!

-you will spend all youre time swaping set ups.

get two seperate machines. be much farther ahead.

[jstinem]

"-you will spend all youre time swaping set ups."

You do have to change setups but it makes think thru what you are about to do and find the most efficent way to order the steps. A little thought eliminates the need for most duplicate setups.

[jkilroy]

Thats like looking down at a bowl of punch and wondering which turd to scoop into your cup.

[tattoomike68]

they both are fine for a home shop doing hobbie work.

even a small machine is better then none.

[FOM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rob319:
[B]I am having a difficult time deciding which 3 in 1 machine I am going to get....
..................................
I have had a 1324 for 2 years and am satisfied with it. I particularly like the varible speed - when I start it up I can check clearances, direction of rotation & carriage travel with the machine moving much less than one rpm. I am strictly a hobbiest newbie and a slow learner, so this has saved me numerous times.
I have had several small problems, but Smithy has responded very well.
The guys here with the Heavy Iron, American, separate machines are RIGHT ! But I started 25 years ago with a Shopsmith that I still have and learned that for me a multi machine that allows me to do what I want to do, although slower, is just fine for me at my skill level and me having plenty of time. Best of luck whatever you decide.


------------------
Fat Old Man

[J Tiers]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jkilroy:
Thats like looking down at a bowl of punch and wondering which turd to scoop into your cup.</font>

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

People DO get good work out of them, though.

A little research is in order...I don't recall which of them it is, but one of those brands allegedly just ignores problems and complaints. They supposedly even delete ALL complaints or "inappropriate questions" from the user group BBS.

Obviously that one would be a bad choice.....

I will say that the 10" lathe I have (Logan) PLUS the small vertical/horizontal mill, TOGETHER cost less than almost any of those machines.

So if you have the space, you can do better than a one-piece solution.... Unless you live on a submarine.... Having to do it all on one machine taking it down and then re-setting up.... urrrr.... it would drive me nuts.

[G.A. Ewen]

rob319,

My advice would be to go to the store and examine very carefully the machine that you intend to take home.

I have reason to believe that the quality of one machine over another can vary quite a bit in the same store.

[IOWOLF]

"they both are fine for a home shop doing hobbie work.
even a small machine is better then none. "

Spoken like a true hobbiest. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

[tattoomike68]

IOWOLF dont screw with me troll!

[egpace]

Skip the 3 in 1 & go for the 5 in 1!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/egpace/5_in_1.jpg

[This message has been edited by egpace (edited 07-27-2005).]

[rob319]

You guys are hilarious!
And some of you are helpfull http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Looking at seperate machines I kind of though that grizzly would be ok for me. I could get them both for about $3000. However, after looking at simular machines I thought that the quality of the stand alone lathe was not as good as the Smithy type machine I saw. The stand alone mill was certainly nicer than the 3 in 1 machine though.
The 3 in 1 will be $2300 to 2600, however it will take up less space and I wont have to buy 2 DRO's, Powerfeed for the mill, 2 coolant pumps etc...
Also the 3 in 1 machines come with lots of tooling (I know it is probably low quality) to get started.
If change over is the main problem, I think I can handle that. It's only for hobby use.
I just dont want to get into something that wont work. If it gets the job done as advertised it should be ok for my use. At least until I have gained much experiance.
Perhaps I am just trying to talk myself into the 3 in 1 because I want it to work well?
I have been researching and my delima has been shared by many others over the years. It seems like most do not care for the 3 in 1 machines, however, most of the people who have them dont regret buying them. I do not find many of the combo machines for sale?
Also, when I start leaning towards the seperate machines, I start to hear that the grizzly type machines are all junk anyway and I should look for used american made and fix them up. Since I am not a real machinist, I would prefer to get into something that is usable and simple to learn on and to be able to always want it around for smaller projects, even if I end up with a seperate Mill and Lathe later.
When I decided to get a machine for my shop, I thought I would quickly figure out what was best and get it ordered.......
If I would have known the torment of my quest, I would have ignored my interest in machining http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Thanks for all your comments,
Rob
PS does anyone know if the Shoptask does have powerfeed in both directions like the Smithy?

[IOWOLF]

SORRY MIKE, BUT I HAVE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN YOU,That makes you the troll.

I must have hit a nerve. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[This message has been edited by IOWOLF (edited 07-28-2005).]

[J Tiers]

I would suspectI have not got $2600 in ALL the major tools in the shop..... buying "old iron"

Lathe DP, Mill, 2 shapers, grinder, bandsaw, etc. To pay that for one tool, even if its a lathe and DP with milling capability,would tick me off..........

But, you must do what you think best

[hammerhead74000]

No, no, no...

What you want is one of these:

http://www.wfl.at/prodon.asp?Lg=2&Seite=1&UID=&peco=&Cy=1

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[jstinem]

My Shoptask 2000 does not have a powered cross feed. An electric motor can be added for power but is not linked to spindle so it can't cut sprials or scrolls. It's a little piece of the full CNC package that is sold sperately. About $175.00 the last time I looked. The newer models that have the CNC package should have the crossfeed stepper moter linked to spindle electronicaly.

Also, note that the people who recomemd these machines have them and know them. The people who bash them don't seem have have any real experence with them.

[twayne5]

Rob,
The Shoptask does not have dual power feed on the standard machine, it only does if you upgrade it to cnc.

Travis

[tattoomike68]

iowolf get a clue, troll.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013243

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[This message has been edited by tattoomike68 (edited 07-28-2005).]

[Dick Plasencia]

I see several people with the same opinion as I have of 3 in 1 machines. They are toys and not much more. For anything more than make do get some real machines even if they are used they will do more and better jobs for you. The 3 in 1 machines all have quite a few "hidden" limitations not immediately obvious. Some are: too much overhang, limited useful swing in spite of claims, clumsy traverse, crappy speed change system.
But get one if you must. All lessons need to paid for one way or another.
Metalworking is probably the most expensive hobby anyone can get into. I assume your application is hobby. Metalworking is also about the only hobby I know that you can actually make money with and pay off your machines in short order. In the space of 2 years I made enough from hobby one of a kind jobs to pay for a 12x36 lathe, a large mill, all accessories and tooling. I figure I sank about $10K to $12K in tools and machines. The money continues to roll in and I have a backlog I'd like to end so I can get some rest. This is great fun. I get to make stuff but I don't have to store it. Always a new challenge. So I've formalized the situation and started a retirement business. I am now DIX Machine & Welding Co. "Last of the Independents."



[This message has been edited by Dick Plasencia (edited 07-28-2005).]

[tankdriver]

Boy, will it NEVER end.... When will all this Prejudice stop... You my friend to some you are the SCUM of the earth... How DARE you ask this question on this board… http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif While me.... I'm above you... just a little mind you…. I own a HF 9X20 lathe and a Mini-Mill. OK all the Elite Machinist jump on me too... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Now to your question... I looked at the 3 in ones. The reason why I did not go with them is simply to much work to change from one setup to another. With 2 machines it is much simpler and takes a lot less time to do. I have no problems with import tools. I think they will do as good a job are you are capable of doing. I guess all the parts I have made, and money I have made with them is just a figment of my imagination... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[egpace]

Is it the 3 in 1 that's the problem or it's overall design? Here's one I wouldn't mind owning.
Ed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/egpace/machinist/3_1.jpg

[tankdriver]

Hey wait a minute... Is that American made? If so does that make it OK to own?.. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[jkilroy]

I agree 100% that any machine, even if it is a turd, is better than no machine at all.

[J Tiers]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tankdriver:
Boy, will it NEVER end.... When will all this Prejudice stop... You my friend to some you are the SCUM of the earth... How DARE you ask this question on this board… I own a HF 9X20 lathe and a Mini-Mill. OK all the Elite Machinist jump on me too...
</font>

I am no Elite machinist.... far from it.....too much of a French Revolutionary....

In any case, I don't like the 3 in 1 because

1) they were more expensive than my separate machines (than the whole shop...actually....)

2) they do ONE thing at a time

3) The ones I looked at really didn't look well-made

4) I have nagging doubts about the accuracy and the rigidity with those spindly tailstocks and pencil-necked milling head.

5) Did I mention they cost MORE than the old US iron?

6) and the fact that the money goes straight to China...... same like Wal-Mart....

So lets see, I'm predjudiced for preferring to spend less money to buy separate machines that are better at their tasks than the "Kirby Vacuum" of lathes and mills.....

OOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK...... Well I thought it was just good sense............

Little did I know that it was actually a sign of intense internal hatred, repressed hostility, and ingrained predjudice...... that I am in denial about.... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

But I LIKE that Dalton... I'd buy one of them.... Its a horizontal mill too..... a bonus.

There is also a Russian one, reviewed in HSM, that is pretty cool and VERY functional. I'd use that..... cool, works good, what's not to like aside from setups.....At least it isn't chinese.



[This message has been edited by J Tiers (edited 07-28-2005).]

[rob319]

I did not intend to start trouble, (I think I understand now why I have always gotten along so well with machinist at work) however, I feel like I have gained a lot of insight at this forum. I had asked this question at a couple of other forums but have not received near the feedback or colorful commentary as I have here http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif Perhaps some could offer a little more “tolerance” (say +/- as much as a Chinese 3in1 machine) for the strictly hobby guy http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
I have decided on the 3in1 "Shoptask" bridgemill at http://www.shoptask.com but in order to be a little more certain with my decision, I am going to wait a week or two and continue to search and research individual Mills and Lathes, looking especially at older American models.
Perhaps if I stumble on a "deal" for one or the other I will be off and running. I would certainly be happy if I could find the key pieces of equipment for my shrinking shop for under $3000.....
Can anyone recommend resources for used equipment besides ebay?
I really do appreciate EVERYONES comments, and look forward to checking in here when I start getting my feet wet on my new/used machine/s http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif
Rob

[tankdriver]

My reply was meant to be just good natured fun. No flame to intended to anyone... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif But, most anytime imports are talked about it is almost always way overboard negative. AND some of the guys have never even used one. I know from years of experience they are not as good as a Bridgeport, Rockwell, or a lot of other American Iron, even old American Iron. They are what they are. An inexpensive hobbyist machine. And if you accept them as that and allow for their limits, you can turn out some good work. I have turned out parts as good as and sometimes better than machine shops with 10,000 machines. A lot of it is up to the operator, it's not just the machine. We had old worn out Rockwell lathes in High School. My instructor told use, “Don’t blame the machine for your mistakes”

[sch]

The philosophical bent of the two suppliers is such that the Smithy with its x-y axis power feeds and the thread dial, make it a reasonable approximation of say a 9x20 lathe.
The milling head takes second seat and has a very limited work area under the head. The milling table is smaller as well. The Smithy has the advantage of a D1-4 spindle. Shoptask has beefed up its already superior mill (superior to the Smithy) with a much more rigid head and variable head height allowing ~14-15" under the spindle nose. They switched to R8 a few yrs ago as well.
It is fairly easy to add either simple electric motor drive to the y axis on the Shoptask or to use steppers with either manual, semiautomated (eg Frog) or full CNC control of y axis motion integrated with x and z axis. The Shoptask lathe, with the exception of addition of clutches in the drive system is substantially the same as Shoptask machines dating back 10yrs. An addon that allows lead screw direction reversal without motor rotation reversal was made standard 7-8yrs ago. The apron/mill table can only be moved by leadscrew action however. Threading can be done but with a different approach than standard lathe practice on the Shoptask. Smithy uses standard lathe practice for threading. Smithy has recently jumped into CNC with an offering of an apparently turnkey set up for $12-13K, about twice what Shoptask charges.
For examples of what skilled practitioners can do with 3n1 setups a perusal of the blog by John Stranahan is useful. Google on his name and Shoptask to pop this up. My own preference is for separates as the ease of lathing with a 12x36 and milling with a substantial knee mill is like nite and day but this requires substantial room, not always available and moving 1/2 to 1 ton machines can be a formidable challenge.
Steve

[twayne5]

I have no experience with a smithy, but I did buy a shoptask 2000.
The machine is good for hobby use, but there will be quite a few bugs to work out before you use it much. It did not take me long to figure out that the mill part was not to great, its good for light cuts only but I fixed that problem, I bought an old Index knee mill. I have used the lathe a lot and it seems to work ok, the main problem with it is the noise it makes, it runs off of a combination belt/chain drive with some small idler rollers and makes a lot of noise, especially in high range.

So buying a 3 in 1 for me was a bad choice since I ended up getting a full size mill,now I just need to get a bigger lathe!

Im not saying the shoptask is a bad machine, you just need to decide if it fits the projects you want to do.

Travis