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CCWKen
08-08-2005, 12:04 AM
I see there's a few owls on board. You guys waiting for the landing? I'm setting my alarm--See ya.

Maker
08-08-2005, 01:48 AM
Been watching NASA TV since liftoff, and am waiting (hoping) for a successful landing.

Alex

SJorgensen
08-08-2005, 01:58 AM
Of course I wish them the best. It isn't because I am a Liberal that I have grave doubts. It is because our government under G.W. Bush systematically lies.

I will watch the landing, and I will hope for the best.

The things that we are worrying about we have already spent billions to solve.

Maybe Haliburton or another of Bush's friends can fix it?

tattoomike68
08-08-2005, 02:05 AM
SJorgensen Grow up, no one cares what you hallucinate.


[This message has been edited by tattoomike68 (edited 08-08-2005).]

CompositeEngr
08-08-2005, 02:09 AM
How exactly does GWB lying affect the outcome of a shuttle mission?

jburstein
08-08-2005, 02:18 AM
He might be referring to NASA's apparent incompetence. IE they said the foam issue was fixed, but it wasn't. Not that I believe that was a deliberate lie, nor do I believe it had much at all (if anything) to do with GWB.

Anyhoo, I too am staying up with my fingers crossed for the astronauts.

-Justin

Maker
08-08-2005, 02:42 AM
Landing has been delayed at least one orbit.
Next possible landing time is 5:22 CST - pending weather

Alex

matador
08-08-2005, 03:56 AM
The shuttle was supposed to pass over us at exactly7.07 pm last saturday.But there were so many stars,i couldn't find the shuttle at all http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif
Never mind,all the best to the astronauts,they are some of the bravest people on earth.(or in space,as the case may be.)

------------------
Hans

Maker
08-08-2005, 04:36 AM
No landing today-maybe tomorrow.

Alex

SJorgensen
08-08-2005, 03:35 PM
I saw Challenger explode with my own eyes back in 1986 in Volusia County. It was a very cold day. The truth is that burned seals were known to occur, from recovered tanks and rocket motors, and yet nothing was done about it. You can be sure that this debris-shedding problem has been known and analyzed from similar evidence during the operational history of the shuttle fleet as well as significant shuttle heat shield damage. I wonder how often maintenance workers have repaired damage that could have doomed prior shuttles and yet nothing was done about it until it results in a tragedy? It isn’t Bush’s fault, but general wasteful spending without getting the job done.

Now we just spent more than a BILLION$+ on fixing the external tank problem, and we have nothing to show for it. We also don't seem to have any repair capacity either. The calking that was removed during the space-walk came out as though it had no adhesive on it at all and there is no effort or capability to fill the gap with anything.

Don’t be too quick to believe that this landing is without risk. I remember the last time when NASA didn’t even bother to assess the damage visually and how quickly they dismissed the possibility that the foam could cause severe damage to the shuttle. I wrote this here right after the Columbia accident.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">“The candor was evident. I know they all did their best. However I think all of the analysis of the foam piece that probably impacted the wing at launch was given too optimistic an analysis. Also, the first impression that the sensor readings and sensor failures were simply "sensor failures" is also a sign of complacence. The sensor reading of the tire pressure going “off the scale” was probably an indication that the tires exploded. In any case there was no capacity to repair any damaged shield-tiles, and no capacity to examine the underside of the craft in an EVA (I thought they had a device to fly around with?) I witnessed the destruction of the Challenger from Daytona Beach when I was studying Aeronautical Engineering. I remember what a cold day it was. The engineer that resolved that problem, the one that placed the blame on the gasket, didn’t have an easy time with the politics of the time. I hope things are different now. Many things should change. I will start the list and maybe others can add on.
(1) Telemetry does not replace the need for an on-board recorder. All space-vehicles should have a “black box”
(2) The only method of examining and recording the condition of the booster after launch now, is with film cameras. The film of course is not likely to be recovered. The use of film for this purpose should be stopped and digital cameras should be used so the information can be transmitted and preserved.
(3) A method of repairing tiles in flight must be developed. I thought they were just “glued” on. My brother thinks that maybe the glue doesn’t work in space. I think the glue is a catalyzed reaction like epoxy where all the reagents are contained in the mix. I don’t know why it wouldn’t work in space.
(4) There is no method to examine the underside of the ship. I don’t understand this problem. I thought an EVA was possible. I don’t see why robotic cameras can’t be used to examine every inch of the ship after launch. It seems critical to me, for the crew to know, fully well, the condition of the ship before attempting re-entry. If an examination was done, and damage was evident, the crew could have remained in space, docked at the space station, and waited for another ride. Some method for repairs must be made. This is a perfect mission for the space station.
Just a few thoughts and I will leave it to the experts. I know they will do their best. The Shuttle is quite outdated technologically and getting new technology on board is too difficult because of the system. This is (5) for them to fix.”</font>

BillH
08-08-2005, 04:41 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SJorgensen:
...there is no effort or capability to fill the gap with anything.
</font>

Incorrect, part of the vast amount of money they spent went into being able to repair large damaged heat shields including the leading edge. They developed three different tools, for fixing such things. Developed new flowable materiels they can inject into a hollow space to fill it in, another to smooth it over, and some other stuff, cant seams to remember exactly what they did but it reminded me a bit of doing some fiberglass work.

wierdscience
08-08-2005, 08:44 PM
The piece of foam that was lost on this mission wasn't foam at all,it was a polymerized cloth that fares in the wire race ways.It has been determined that techs wakling on the tank as the result of the refit is what cause the piece to be worked loose.
The Columbia tragedy was just that,a tragedy.There was absolutly nothing wrong with the tanks.The piece of foam comming loose was a fluke and the NASA reaction was typical-KNEEJERK.The "solution" it turns out maybe more of a potential problem than the problem itself.

wierdscience
08-08-2005, 08:48 PM
Oh,forgot to mention,does anyone know how many tiles were lost on the very first orbital flight made by the shuttle?We are talking complete,whole tiles,completely gone,not just a few chips here and there.Correct answer worth 10 points.

BillH
08-08-2005, 09:57 PM
Wierd, I thought it was common knowledge that every time a space shuttle went up, lots of tiles came off and foam from the tank would fall off.
Hmm, my guess for the first shuttle? probably 50 tiles. No one thought a chunk of foam could do so much damage.

ibewgypsie
08-08-2005, 10:05 PM
Turn loose that much horsepower, yep it's dangerous.

I think Burt Rutan should go rework Nasa. Run off all the bureacrats and old school engineers.

David

wierdscience
08-08-2005, 10:06 PM
"Ablative tile damage has been noted before. On Columbia's first flight, STS-1, 16 tiles were lost and 148 were damaged thanks to an overpressure wave created by the Solid Rocket Boosters. There have only been a couple of rare missions when tiles have not been damaged by one thing or another. At the end of one Shuttle flight, a basketball sized hole was found burnt into one of the orbiter's wings where tiles had given way."

---------------------------------------------
One the very first test flight(in atmosphere)the shuttle lost nearly 1/3 of it's tiles,thou most were on the non critical section.
I still have my autographed crew picture from STS-1,the one with John Young and Robert Crippen.Also have the original Appolo 13 crew and misson manifest.



[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 08-08-2005).]