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View Full Version : History Quiz - sorta OT- but not to far



cuemaker
08-15-2005, 04:32 PM
With out doing a search...

Who here knows the how and why plastic came to be??

Evan
08-15-2005, 04:39 PM
Just one word. Bakelite.

MechHead
08-15-2005, 04:41 PM
I think it was in the mid 1800's, celluloid made by accident while trying to make billiard balls (replacement for ivory)?

MechHead
08-15-2005, 04:42 PM
I think bakelite came around just before WWI.

Evan
08-15-2005, 04:43 PM
Without doing a search does anyone know how Lexan came about?

BillH
08-15-2005, 04:44 PM
Im still trying to figure out how liberals came about.

Evan
08-15-2005, 04:50 PM
Celluloid was first but Bakelite was far more useful.

J Tiers
08-15-2005, 05:06 PM
Celluloid was more fun......

If the process wasn't just right, I have heard it said that heat made it sweat a tiny bit of poor quality explosive....... and then the billiard balls might bang a little louder than usual when they hit each other......

Just what you needed in a western saloon......in the late 1800s......

I believe it is possible, don't know if it actually ever happened.

cuemaker
08-15-2005, 05:07 PM
Here is a hint, celluloid wasnt the first. There is one version a few years older (1862).

cuemaker
08-15-2005, 05:15 PM
Heres why I thought this was interesting.

I to thought it was celluloid for billiard balls as a replacement of ivory. Hyatt was the guy.

I came across a Hyatt "zig-zag" ball and so I was doing a bit of research. They are pricey as a set since they are fairly rare.

Anyways, on my search I learned that Hyatt wasnt the first. According to American Plastics Council, a guy in london, Alexander Pakres in 1862 came up with something called Parkesine.

It was dropped as in idea and a product becuase of the high cost to produce

AZSORT
08-15-2005, 05:51 PM
I think the real explosion in plastics came with the rise of the petroleum industry and the discovery mostly by the scientists at DuPont of how to polymerize chains of hydrocarbon molecules.

topct
08-15-2005, 06:00 PM
As AZSORT says, that and a need for something better than tree pitch.

------------------
Gene

topct
08-15-2005, 06:28 PM
Actually isn't the word "plastic" discriptive of a physical property?

------------------
Gene

Lynn Standish
08-15-2005, 06:35 PM
Let's try electrical insulative material.

PSD KEN
08-15-2005, 06:46 PM
Plastic = capable of being shaped or formed,ie, pliable.

cuemaker
08-15-2005, 06:49 PM
According to the American Plastics Council, the first plastic made from all synthetic materials is bakelite

Bruce Griffing
08-15-2005, 07:03 PM
How about casein plastic? Made from milk and used originally in milk paint.

Evan
08-15-2005, 07:09 PM
The interesting thing about plastics is that many of the most used plastics were discovered accidentally. That includes polyethelene and Lexan. Lexan (polycarbonate) was discovered by a GE researcher who was studying polymers but not making plastics. He mixed up some goop in a beaker and it promptly hardened. As he played with it he found it was nearly indestructible.

sauer38h
08-15-2005, 08:31 PM
Depends on the definition of "plastic." Howzabout gutta percha? Derived from some sort of tree sap. The outer insulators of the first submarine telegraph cables were made of it. Also used for a new-fangled type of golf ball.

Casein is later than bakelite. It was considered a breakthrough because it could be made in colors other than brown or black, which are pretty much the limits for bakelite.

[This message has been edited by sauer38h (edited 08-15-2005).]

aboard_epsilon
08-15-2005, 08:56 PM
Or green with flecks.
my antique bakelite megger


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/megainbox.jpg

all the best.mark

JeffKranz
08-15-2005, 09:40 PM
I read that they were looking at a material to replace ivory pool balls since Ivory was very expensive. Bakalite was developed and used for this application.

cuemaker
08-15-2005, 11:09 PM
Jeff,

Hyatt won a prize for inventing celluliod to replace the ivory ball

John Stevenson
08-15-2005, 11:17 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cuemaker:
According to the American Plastics Council, the first plastic made from all synthetic materials is bakelite</font>


So it's not only Hollywood who re writes history ?

crossthreaded
08-16-2005, 01:05 AM
Is anybody else ancient enough to remember the British film,"The Man in the White Suit." Alec Guiness invents an infintly long chain polymer thread that makes indestructable clothing that never wears out or gets dirty; so management & labor try to kill him for doing away with their jobs.

Norman Atkinson
08-16-2005, 07:01 AM
Ahem, you babes in arms!

The first plastic was GLASS.

That came from one of the old Penguin books
and if I recall, it was called plastics and was published in 1944 or 5.

The surprise is that the now classic Bill Bryson writing in his Short History of Nearly Everything, affirms the fact that
even old glass in cathedrals has glass which continues to remain plasic and continues to become wider at the bottom.

Now Bill Bryson is an American- and must be right.

The classic definition is a material that has been plastic at some time in its production. Sort that one out.

I suppose that cellulose acetate and cellulose nitrate were the First- in the present view and Bakelite and phenols follow on.

Somewhere in the knitting, paint technology comes in with resins, rosins and the esterification of fatty acids.

I recall- vaguely- the end of WW2.
There was an exhibition of ex- German swag in Newcastle.
There was a Shmitt Argus doodle bug- V1, an electron microscope but also German " foam plastic"

Enough to keep the grey matter working???

Told yer- I had a Classical Education.

Norman

J Tiers
08-16-2005, 08:40 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NORMAN ATKINSON:


The surprise is that the now classic Bill Bryson writing in his Short History of Nearly Everything, affirms the fact that
even old glass in cathedrals has glass which continues to remain plasic and continues to become wider at the bottom.
</font>

BTW, that is BS. Total BS. Disproven, discredited, nonsense.

The fact that it's BS sorta confirms the guy is an American, though ...... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

pete913
08-16-2005, 08:49 AM
You guys need to take a look at the side windows on my neighbors 80 yr old enclosed porch. they're outta square by about a quarter inch in 2 feet and are definetly wider at the bottom. We had one pane out a year ago to replace some rotted window moldings. Glass does flow with time.

ACF
08-16-2005, 09:34 AM
Phenolics (Bakelite) were indeed the first polymers derived from synthetic materials. There were other polymers before phenolics but these were made from naturally occuring materials or were actually natural polymers.

Phenolics were the first commercial polymer that got the ball rolling. Not long after phenolics, alkyd resin technology came about and revolutionized the coatings industry. Today alkyds are still the workhorse of the coatings industry.

Chris

pgmrdan
08-16-2005, 10:00 AM
crossthreaded, I remember the movie. After a while doesn't the suit begin to disintegrate so the jobs are safe?

cuemaker
08-16-2005, 10:25 AM
This is from the American Plastics Council.

Found at www.americanplasticscouncil.org (http://www.americanplasticscouncil.org)

The History of Plastic

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SITE SEARCH

In today's world, life without plastics is incomprehensible. We all know the many ways that plastics contribute to our health, safety and peace of mind. But what about plastics' history - how were plastic materials invented and discovered? Who were the key individuals in plastics' development and use?

history of plastics timeline

Alexander Parkes Invents First Man-Made Plastic

The first man-made plastic was unveiled by Alexander Parkes at the 1862 Great International Exhibition in London. This material - which the public dubbed Parkesine - was an organic material derived from cellulose that once heated could be molded but that retained its shape when cooled. Parkes claimed that this new material could do anything rubber was capable of, but at a lower price. He had discovered something that could be transparent as well as carved into thousands of different shapes. But Parkesine soon lost its luster, when investors pulled the plug on the product due to the high cost of the raw materials needed in its production.

Celluloid Makes Its Debut

celluloid billiard ballsDuring the latter part of the 19th century, a rush was on to find a replacement for ivory in billiards balls. Billiards became so popular that thousands of elephants were killed just so their valuable ivory could be obtained. John Wesley Hyatt, an American, finally came upon the solution in 1866 with celluloid. Hyatt, upon spilling a bottle of collodion in his workshop, discovered that the material congealed into a tough, flexible film. He then produced billiard balls using collodian as a substitute for ivory. But due to its highly brittle nature, the billiard balls would shatter once they hit each other. The solution to this challenge was the addition of camphor - a derivative of the laurel tree. This addition made celluloid the first thermoplastic: a substance molded under heat and pressure into a shape it retains even after the heat and pressure have been removed. Celluloid went on to be used in the first flexible photographic film for still and motion pictures.

The Story of Bakelite

The first completely synthetic man-made substance was discovered in 1907, when Leo Baekeland, a New York chemist, developed a liquid resin that he named Bakelite. Baekeland had developed an apparatus - which he called a Bakelizer - that enabled him to vary heat and pressure precisely so as to control the reaction of volatile chemicals. Using this pot-like apparatus, Baekeland developed a new liquid (bakelite resin) that rapidly hardened and took the shape of its container. Once hardened, the resin would form an exact replica of any vessel that contained it. This new material would not burn, boil, melt, or dissolve in any commonly available acid or solvent. This meant that once it was firmly set, it would never change. This one benefit made it stand out from previous "plastics." While celluloid-based substances could be melted down innumerable times and reformed, Bakelite was the first thermoset plastic which would retain its shape and form under any circumstances.

Bakelite could be added to almost any material - such as softwood - and instantly make it more durable and effective. Numerous products began to be manufactured based on this new material. One of the sectors of society most interested in its development was the military. The US Government saw Bakelite opening the door to production of new weaponry and lightweight war machinery that steel could not match. In fact, Bakelite was a key ingredient in most of the weapons used in the Second World War.

Bakelite was also used for domestic purposes such as electrical insulators. For this purpose it proved to be more effective than any other material available - so effective, in fact, tthat it is still used as such today. Bakelite is electrically resistant, chemically stable, heat-resistant, shatter-proof and neither cracks, fades, creases, nor discolors from exposure to sunlight, dampness or sea salt.

Rayon and Cellophane

Rayon - another modified cellulose - was first developed in 1891 in Paris by Louis Marie Hilaire Bernigaut, the Count of Chardonnet. He was searching for a way to produce man-made silk. After studying silkworms, Bernigaut noticed that the worm would secrete a liquid from a narrow orifice that would harden upon exposure to air and turn into silk. He deduced that if he could find a liquid that would have similar characteristics to silk before being secreted, he could then pass it through a man-made apparatus to form fibers that could be spun and feel like silk. The only problem with his new invention was that it was highly flammable. This problem was later solved by Charles Topham.

Cellophane was discovered by Dr. Jacques Edwin Brandenberger, a Swiss textile engineer, who came upon the idea for a clear, protective, packaging layer in 1900. Brandenberger was seated at a restaurant when he noticed a customer spill a bottle of wine onto the tablecloth. The waiter removed the cloth replacing it with another and disposed of the soiled one. Brandenberger swore that he would discover some way to apply a clear flexible film to cloth, which would keep it safe from such accidents and allow it to be easily cleaned with the swipe of a clean towel. He worked on resolving this problem by utilizing different materials until he hit paydirt in 1913 by adding Viscose (now known as Rayon).

Brandenberger added viscose to cloth but the end result was a brittle material that was too stiff to be of any use. Yet Brandenberger saw another potential for the viscose material. He developed a new machine that could produce viscose sheets, which he marketed as Cellophane. With a few more improvements, Cellophane allowed for a clear layer of packaging for any product - the first fully flexible, water-proof wrap.

The Discovery of Nylon

nylon advertisment The 1920s witnessed a "plastics craze", as the use of cellophane spread throughout the world. DuPont, one of the industry leaders, became a hotbed for innovation concerning plastics. Wallace Hume Carothers, a young Harvard chemist, became the head of the DuPont lab. The company was responsible for the moisture-proofing of Cellophane and was well on its way to developing Nylon, which at the time they named Fiber 66. Carothers saw the possible value that a new tough plastic such as Fiber 66 could possess. The fiber replaced animal hair in toothbrushes and silk stockings. The stockings were unveiled in 1939, to great public acceptance. H. Staudinger in Germany was the first to recognize the structural nature of plastics, but Carothers built upon this theory. As demonstrated by Carothers, by substituting and inserting elements into the chemical chain, new materials and uses could be developed. During the 1940s, the world saw the use of such materials as nylon, acrylic, neoprene, SBR, polyethylene, and many more polymers take the place of natural material supplies that were becoming exhausted.

PVC, Saran, and Teflon®

Another important plastic innovation of the time was the development of polyvinyl chloride (PVC), or vinyl. Waldo Semon, a B.F. Goodrich organic chemist, was attempting to bind rubber to metal when he stumbled across PVC. Semon later discovered that this material was inexpensive, durable, fire-resistant, and easily molded. Vinyl found a special place in the hearts of Americans as an upholstery material that would last for years in the average family's living room.

In 1933, Ralph Wiley, a Dow Chemical lab worker, accidentally discovered yet another plastic: polyvinylidene chloride (better known as Saran). Saran was first used to protect military equipment, but it was later discovered that it was great for food packaging. Saran would cling to almost any material - bowls, dishes, pots and even itself; thus, it became the perfect tool for maintaining the freshness of food at home.

A DuPont chemist named Roy Plunkett discovered Teflon®, in 1938. Teflon® today is widely used in kitchenware. Plunkett discovered the material accidentally by pumping freon gas into a cylinder left in cold storage overnight. The gas dissipated into a solid white powder. Teflon® is unique because it is impervious to acids in addition to both cold and heat. Teflon® is now best-known for its slipperiness - which makes it highly effective in pots and pans for easy cooking and cleaning.

Polyethylene

In 1933, two organic chemists working for the Imperial Chemical Industries Research Laboratory were testing various chemicals under highly pressurized conditions. In their wildest imaginations, the two researchers E.W. Fawcett and R.O. Gibson, had no idea that the revolutionary substance they would come across - polyethylene - would have an enormous impact on the world.

The researchers set off a reaction between ethylene and benzaldehyde, utilizing two thousand atmospheres of internal pressure. The experiment went askew when their testing container sprang a leak and all of the pressure escaped. Upon opening the tube they were surprised to find a white, waxy substance that greatly resembled plastic. When the experiment was carefully repeated and analyzed the scientists discovered that the loss of pressure was only partly due to a leak; the greater reason was the polymerization process that had occurred leaving behind polyethylene. In 1936, Imperial Chemical Industries developed a large-volume compressor that made the production of vast quantities of polyethylene possible. This high-volume production of polyethylene actually led to some history-making events.

For instance, polyethylene played a key supporting role during World War II - first as an underwater cable coating and then as a critical insulating material for such vital military applications as radar insulation. This is because it was so light and thin that it made placing radar onto airplanes possible; something that could not be done using traditional insulating materials because they weighed too much. In fact, the use of polyethylene as an insulating material reduced the weight of radars to 600 pounds in 1940 and even less as the war progressed. It was these lightweight radar systems, capable of being carried onboard planes, that allowed the out-numbered Allied aircraft to detect German bombers under such difficult conditions as nightfall and thunderstorms.

It was not until after the war, though, that the material became a tremendous hit with consumers and from that point on, its rise in popularity has been almost unprecedented. It became the first plastic in the United States to sell more than a billion pounds a year and it is currently the largest volume plastic in the world. Today, polyethylene is used to make such common items as soda bottles, milk jugs and grocery and dry-cleaning bags in addition to plastic food storage containers.

Velcro® and the Development of Silly Putty®

A plastic that has struck the fancy of many youngsters over the years is plastic putty -- better known as Silly Putty®. James Wright, a GE engineer, came upon the material by mixing silicone oil with boric acid. The compound possessed some rather unique qualities. It acted very much like rubber in its ability to rebound almost 25 percent higher than a normal rubber ball. This "Nutty Putty" was also impervious to rot and unable to maintain a shape for more than a short period of time. It could be stretched many times its length without tearing. This material also would copy the image of any printed material that it was pressed upon. In 1949, the material was sold under the name of Silly Putty®, selling faster -- at that time -- than any other toy in history with over $6 million in sales for the year.

The birth of Velcro®, yet another unique plastic product which has impacted nearly all of our lives occurred in 1957. A Swiss engineer named George de Maestral was impressed with the way that cockleburs - a type of vegetation - would use thousands of tiny hooks to cling to anything with which they came into contact. He devised a product, using nylon, that replicated this natural phenomenon. The result, Velcro®, could be spun in any required thickness, would not rot, mold or naturally degrade, and was relatively inexpensive.

Plastics in Modern Life

Since the 1950s, plastics have grown into a major industry that affects all of our lives - from providing improved packaging to giving us new textiles, to permitting the production of wondrous new products and cutting edge technologies in such things as televisions, cars and computers. Plastics even allow doctors to replace worn-out body parts, enabling people to live more productive and longer lives. In fact, since 1976, plastic has been the most used material in the world and was voted one of the top 100 news events of the century.

None of the applications and innovations we take for granted would have been possible if it weren't for the early scientists who developed and refined the material. Those pioneers made it possible for us to enjoy the quality of life we do today.

Learn even more about the role of plastics in your life.

MechHead
08-16-2005, 10:27 AM
I think some of us may be a little confused by the definitions of "plastic" we are using. the term "plastic" we are using here I am assuming is intended to mean "polymer". When we are talking about the "plastic" property of a material, we are referring to the amount of stress we need to apply to it to permanently deform it. Sort of like with most metals, they have an elastic range, where you apply stress, let it go, and the material "snaps" back to its original shape. Put a little more stress on it, into the plastic range, and it no longer snaps back to it's original shape.

snowman
08-16-2005, 11:22 AM
GLASS DOES NOT FLOW NOTICABLE AMOUNTS WITH TIME

Here's the deal, the manufacturing process of rolling out the glass, commonly made one side of the glass that was thicker than the other.

If you were a glazier, which side would you put down? The thick side, or the thin side?

So, a lot of old windows are considerably thicker at the bottom because the glass was made that way, then installed in the strongest possible configuration. It's a QC issue.

-Jacob

BillH
08-16-2005, 12:05 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by snowman:
GLASS DOES NOT FLOW NOTICABLE AMOUNTS WITH TIME

Here's the deal, the manufacturing process of rolling out the glass, commonly made one side of the glass that was thicker than the other.

If you were a glazier, which side would you put down? The thick side, or the thin side?

So, a lot of old windows are considerably thicker at the bottom because the glass was made that way, then installed in the strongest possible configuration. It's a QC issue.

-Jacob</font>

Tell that to all the people that run huge telescopes for observations of the stars. Nearly all of them are able to rotate the lenses to prevent that. I do not know of who could of disproven this. They are still teaching in physics classes at the college level that indeed glass is a liquid in a solid state. Although I have yet to see any modern window sag over time.

Evan
08-16-2005, 12:06 PM
"Glass does flow with time."

Yep, that's a common myth. Even science teachers believe it. For years it was believed that glas is a supercooled fluid. That isn't correct. It is an amorphous solid with no crystalline structure. That does NOT make it a fluid and it doesn't flow over time.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Push, pull or twist a piece of glass hard enough, and it will bend or stretch. Not very much, admittedly, but some bending or stretching is possible. Watch the reflections in a large window when a strong wind is blowing on it and you can observe the way the window bends from the force of the wind. Glass is an unusual material in this respect, not because it bends or stretches—most materials do—but because it returns exactly to its original shape when the bending or stretching force is removed. This characteristic of glass classifies it as a perfectly elastic material. If you apply an increasing force, the glass breaks when the force reaches the ultimate strength of the glass. But at any point short of breakage, the glass will not deform permanently.
</font>

From the Corning Museum of Glass (http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=715)

BillH
08-16-2005, 12:17 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
"Glass does flow with time."

Yep, that's a common myth. Even science teachers believe it. For years it was believed that glas is a supercooled fluid. That isn't correct. It is an amorphous solid with no crystalline structure. That does NOT make it a fluid and it doesn't flow over time.

From the Corning Museum of Glass (http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=715)</font>


Thats why I love science, never final, always learning more.

Peter S
08-16-2005, 06:35 PM
I just happen to have been reading a short ISSES article written in 1985 about the last celluloid manufacturer in the UK, and one of three remaining in the world at that time (one in Japan, one in Italy).

The UK company was (is?) Storey Brothers of Brantham and the article was about the steam engines that were still running there. They were driving high pressure water pumps (2240 & 5000 psi) to supply accumulators which drove hydraulic presses used in the celluloid manufacture.

However, there is a brief history of celluloid included in the article:

-Celluloid one of the first synthetic thermoplastics.

-The 'nitrocellulose process' was first discovered by Count Hilaire de Chardonnet in 1855.

-The first cellulose was made by Alexander Parkes in 1865.

-The process was improved (and revolutionised) by Hyatt of Newark, New Jersey. As a result it became very popular and widely used, eg as imitation ivory, bone and marble.

-Celluloid was the American name, in England it was originally known as 'Xylonite'.

-A very useful material, but dangerous to make, being especially flammible during manufacture.

-Cellulose, usually obtained from wood pulp, is combined with nitric and sulphuric acids. This produces nitro-cellulose. (In moderation! Excessive nitration produces guncotton!).

-Camphor is added, this requires the addition of methanol as a plastizer.

-The acid must be removed. This can be done by introducing alcohol (which replaces the acid), or by pressing out the acid. This latter is the method used by Story Bros. hence the hydraulic presses. The result is a solid block of thermoplastic material, however it still contains methanol.

-The sheets are then thinnly sliced and layered between sheets of cardboard, made into stacks and placed in drying houses, heated by steam. Direct heating is not possible because of explosive risk.

-The resulting sheets of celluloid then go to be transformed into consumer goods.

ps. The Science Museum in London has some original Parksine (sp?) products and history if I remember correctly.

Good question to ask! Lots of interesting replies too.

moldmonkey
08-16-2005, 07:00 PM
Heres a link to a history of celluose and Innovia Films who currently own the only celluose plant in the US. It is right here in Topeka. The plant was orginally started by DuPont in the 1950s and has somehow survived some tough times and numerous buyouts. Within the last year Innovia threatened to close either this plant or one of two in the UK so of course the state came up with big tax breaks. What a gimmick, what logic would there be in closing the US plant and shipping it across the Atlantic from TWO plants in the UK.

Anyway good thread. As you can tell by my screenname I used to work in the plastics industry. Heres the link:

http://www.films.ucb-group.com/corporate/profile_history.htm

[This message has been edited by moldmonkey (edited 08-16-2005).]

[This message has been edited by moldmonkey (edited 08-16-2005).]

pistonskirt
08-16-2005, 07:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cuemaker:
This is from the American Plastics Council.

In 1933, two organic chemists working for the Imperial Chemical Industries Research Laboratory were testing various chemicals under highly pressurized conditions. In their wildest imaginations, the two researchers E.W. Fawcett and R.O. Gibson, had no idea that the revolutionary substance they would come across - polyethylene - would have an enormous impact on the world.

The researchers set off a reaction between ethylene and benzaldehyde, utilizing two thousand atmospheres of internal pressure. The experiment went askew when their testing container sprang a leak and all of the pressure escaped. Upon opening the tube they were surprised to find a white, waxy substance that greatly resembled plastic. When the experiment was carefully repeated and analyzed the scientists discovered that the loss of pressure was only partly due to a leak; the greater reason was the polymerization process that had occurred leaving behind polyethylene. In 1936, Imperial Chemical Industries developed a large-volume compressor that made the production of vast quantities of polyethylene possible. This high-volume production of polyethylene actually led to some history-making events.

For instance, polyethylene played a key supporting role during World War II - first as an underwater cable coating and then as a critical insulating material for such vital military applications as radar insulation. This is because it was so light and thin that it made placing radar onto airplanes possible; something that could not be done using traditional insulating materials because they weighed too much. In fact, the use of polyethylene as an insulating material reduced the weight of radars to 600 pounds in 1940 and even less as the war progressed. It was these lightweight radar systems, capable of being carried onboard planes, that allowed the out-numbered Allied aircraft to detect German bombers under such difficult conditions as nightfall and thunderstorms.

It was not until after the war, though, that the material became a tremendous hit with consumers and from that point on, its rise in popularity has been almost unprecedented. It became the first plastic in the United States to sell more than a billion pounds a year and it is currently the largest volume plastic in the world. Today, polyethylene is used to make such common items as soda bottles, milk jugs and grocery and dry-cleaning bags in addition to plastic food storage containers.

</font>

I worked on the powerstations that supplied the original polyethylene plant at ICI Winnington, the product was developed in the Brunner Mond laboratories on the works.
The first production process was established there but the plant was short lived as the consequence of loss of control of the process resulted in the frequent "sucking out" of every pane of glass on the works as the polyethylene plant safety valves lifted, unfortunately this effect extended on occasion to nearby houses causing the local authorities to demand the closure of the plant. The buildings were still there when I first gained employment on the works but were soon demolished.

regards

Brian

John Stevenson
08-16-2005, 07:39 PM
OK, to get back to the quiz section again.

Can anyone give a rough date when the first 4 x 4 vehicles were designed? Horses don't count, got to be driven wheels.

Web searches are allowed.

First prize is a picture of my floor, second prize is you find it to take the picture http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S.



[This message has been edited by John Stevenson (edited 08-16-2005).]

Boomer
08-16-2005, 07:56 PM
So what was Dustin Hoffmans name in "The Graduate"?

Evan
08-16-2005, 08:03 PM
John,

Pen-y-daren by Richard Trevithick in 1804.