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chief
08-13-2005, 10:01 AM
I don't know the whole story but if this kid
blabbed and caused himself to be caught, he should be slapped. I would have killed in high school for an opportunity to learn from this gifted educator.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/12/earlyshow/living/main773196_page2.shtml

GregC
08-13-2005, 10:22 AM
A mind is a terrible thing to waste - and if she didn't mind, I sure wouldn't!

Michael Az
08-13-2005, 11:26 AM
I would go back to school in a heartbeat.
Michael

sch
08-13-2005, 12:10 PM
Typical example of sexism in the treatment of offenders. Male in the same scenario would be in prison for 20-40yrs.
Steve

John Stevenson
08-13-2005, 12:19 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chief:
I don't know the whole story but if this kid
blabbed and caused himself to be caught, he should be slapped. I would have killed in high school for an opportunity to learn from this gifted educator.
</font>

Chief,
How can you make on offhanded remark such as this ?
How would slaping that kid help?

Slaping won't help at all.
He should be kicked up the ar$e with steel toecapped boots on.

John S.

Wirecutter
08-13-2005, 03:16 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sch:
Typical example of sexism in the treatment of offenders. Male in the same scenario would be in prison for 20-40yrs.
Steve</font>

Problem is society's perception of sex in the eyes of 14-year-old boys. Remember the movie "Six Days and Seven Nights?" Harrison Ford asks Anne Heche: "Honey, do you want to know what a girl can do to get a man excited (on a date)? She shows up."

Really, at the age of 14, and for a considerable time after, maybe forever, all the woman has to do is give permission. Generally speaking, that's the green light and the guy's gonna go for it. Sure, there comes a point when the guy can start getting a little choosy, but at 14? No way. And with a beauty queen? C'mon!

OTOH, no matter how much the girl protests that she "wanted to", and no matter what the guy looks like, a 28 year old man caught having sex with a 14 year old girl is going to jail. If he's lucky. There could always be an angry father/brother/mother/boyfriend in the mix, in which case he might get pulverized.

But for what ever reason, unless force is applied, it's probably safe to assume that the girl is going to be the one with the single yes/no vote on whether to have sex. That force is assumed, in US legal systems, to be able to take the form of authority as well. So we have statutory rape laws. (Older guy, younger girl)

But I'd be interested to hear of any sane 14 year old [edit] boy that would have to be coerced in the situation we have in this case. That goes double for any sane 14-year-old [edit] boy that was somehow "damaged" by the experience.

Part of not being stupid is to know when you have it good and not screw it up somehow, for example, by not keeping your mouth shut. Or in the case of us married guys, keeping it zipped.

IMHO.

-M

[This message has been edited by Wirecutter (edited 08-13-2005).]

Your Old Dog
08-13-2005, 04:17 PM
We were all kicking this around at work. wondering how her husband feels knowing that he can't keep her happy at home so she's got her entire 9th grade class on her "to do list" !!

winchman
08-13-2005, 04:25 PM
Is this the woman in question?
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/215/1803/640/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzTeacherPamelaHarley.jpg

winchman
08-13-2005, 04:34 PM
Bringing this back on topic, look at this pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/starbrian/turner.jpg

The scale on the right is obviously in inches. What's the scale on the left??

Roger

Milacron of PM
08-13-2005, 04:46 PM
IQ ?

Paul Alciatore
08-13-2005, 04:59 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by winchman:
Bringing this back on topic, look at this pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/starbrian/turner.jpg

The scale on the right is obviously in inches. What's the scale on the left??

Roger</font>

71" = 1.8m So the scale on the left is obviously deci meters. The "1" is either left off except at the whole meter points or is just out of the pix.

Paul A.

KENZ
08-13-2005, 05:35 PM
I think Van Halen said it best: "I'm Hot For Teacher"

[This message has been edited by KENZ (edited 08-13-2005).]

jero100
08-13-2005, 06:24 PM
I wonder how these posts would read if this was a male teacher having sex with 13 year old girls.

IOWOLF
08-13-2005, 07:39 PM
There wouldnt be one.

sauer38h
08-13-2005, 07:50 PM
What sort of pinko American police department uses decimeters on mug shots?

charlie coghill
08-13-2005, 08:32 PM
I sure don't know what all the fuss is about. After all the schools teach sex education. So where was she wrong? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

IOWOLF
08-13-2005, 09:12 PM
Extra curcirular activities.

spope14
08-13-2005, 09:47 PM
Bottom line is just that - she crossed the line that teachers are not to cross. The same would go if she were a police officer, or some other public servant. In positions such as teaching, law enforcement, you know the professional lines, and the penalties - which are in fact more severe than probably the normal run of the mill thing.

Has to do with public trust.

John Stevenson
08-13-2005, 09:50 PM
Or in this case pubic trust http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

wierdscience
08-14-2005, 12:05 PM
Well she was a phys ed teacher wasn't she? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

jero100
08-14-2005, 04:32 PM
sex with a child is wrong regardless of the gender.

IOWOLF
08-14-2005, 06:36 PM
A 14 year old boy is NO child.

speedy
08-14-2005, 06:37 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sauer38h:
What sort of pinko American police department uses decimeters on mug shots?</font>
A bi-mathematical one??

An experience like that, at 13? ooooh http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif.
At that age we counted ourselves lucky if we could hook up with a girlfriend a couple of years older....and then most of us lied about the sex thing.....lucky fellow!
Like most sexual experiences at that age, it was over before it really began http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Ken

The Doctor
08-14-2005, 07:07 PM
Man, I wish I get an education like that http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I. mean, seriously, she even looks good in a mug shot! Personally I believe she's in too much trouble for what she actually did. Unless this fellow was severely retarded, I think he knew what he was doing by age 14. I doubt very much he was taken advantage of, I can only wonder if he knows how truly lucky he was.

I also wonder something else, will she be looking for somebody older when she gets out of jail http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Ed

Wirecutter
08-14-2005, 08:26 PM
I have a follow up to my earlier post, in which I said:



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wirecutter:
But I'd be interested to hear of any sane 14 year old boy that would have to be coerced in the situation we have in this case. That goes double for any sane 14-year-old boy that was somehow "damaged" by the experience.
</font>

Well, I have just returned from my high school reunion. I learned of a classmate (guy) that got involved with a rather hot female teacher. I don't know all the details, but they were caught, she was fired, and she was forced to move away.

All these years later, he's still single, and still screwed up about it. So shut my mouth, I stand somewhat corrected. (I'd still submit that, if I was a "somewhat mature 13 year old", as the kid in this case was described, I'd still be quite grateful for the experience. Not sure I could have kept my mouth shut at that age, either, though.)

So, on balance, I'd have to agree that the whole affair was a bad idea, and since she is the older, and supposedly more responsible, she deserves blame. I also can't believe she couldn't have found a nice virile 18- or 19-year old, with whom such a thing would have at least been legal. Even at 18 or 19, I would have jumped at the chance.

-M

The Doctor
08-14-2005, 08:44 PM
I know where she can find a nice 38 year old http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Ed

charlie coghill
08-14-2005, 09:06 PM
At 14 I would have said, REALY, is that what that is for?

crossthreaded
08-14-2005, 09:11 PM
We had a PRESIDENT do this sort of thing on Company/Country time in the oval office, with someone under his direct supervision. As I remember many folks thought it was none of our business. In any case, is this the sort of thing we want 100 years in jail for? Why not flogging or the stocks, or keelhaul her too? Oliver Wendle Holmes had some appropriate thoughts on how the punishment should fit the crime.

Your Old Dog
08-14-2005, 09:24 PM
Crossthreaded, Billy's thing was okay because it wasn't one of our daughters and the country was happy with the economy at the time. You move far enough up the food chain and the same people who decry energy conspiracy theories are cool with it, hell, everybody does it right?

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 08-14-2005).]

wierdscience
08-14-2005, 09:55 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Your Old Dog:
Crossthreaded, Billy's thing was okay because it wasn't one of our daughters and the country was happy with the economy at the time. You move far enough up the food chain and the same people who decry energy conspiracy theories are cool with it, hell, everybody does it right?

[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 08-14-2005).]</font>

Yabut,remember,it all depends on what the definition of is is http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif

"I didnot have sex with that dress" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

speedy
08-15-2005, 12:24 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wirecutter:
I have a follow up to my earlier post, in which I said:


Well, I have just returned from my high school reunion. I learned of a classmate (guy) that got involved with a rather hot female teacher. I don't know all the details, but they were caught, she was fired, and she was forced to move away.
All these years later, he's still single, and still screwed up about it. -M</font>
Maybe it wasn`t the affair that did the damage but the hooha (drama)that everyone else performed at the time?
People get really screwed up about sex.
I know of a guy whos ma? or pa? caught him 'making tents' on his own when he was a youngster; they gave him such grief that he was afraid to hold it at the urinal for fear of discovery http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif
Ken

[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 08-15-2005).]

jero100
08-15-2005, 06:29 AM
There is no way a 14 year old boy (or girl) is physically, emotionally, and mentally mature. So, yes they are a child.

[This message has been edited by jero100 (edited 08-15-2005).]

winchman
08-15-2005, 06:49 AM
"...he was afraid to hold it at the urinal for fear of discovery"

That beat's fear of palm hair and warts as deterrents.

Roger

fencepost
08-15-2005, 06:52 AM
I have followed this topic with some interest, most of the “older” male gender tend to look back on their lost youth and think, “Where was she when I was that age”. However, there is the other side. A good friend is a psychiatrist who works with adolescences with some serious disorders. We have discussed this very topic (it came up several months ago when the Letourneau case was still spread across the headlines). His general consensus is it’s great to dream about, but later in life this violation of trust tends to leave the person pretty screwed up. Actually both parties involved tend to be less than stable later in life in many respects.

As pointed out, reverse the tables, let is be a mature male and a 14 year old girl – oh my. Yes, there is a double standard, but as I understand it the laws do not typically differentiate gender – underage is underage. This is a serious issue with serious long term implications. All I can say is I hope the child is not seriously damaged by all of this.

On the other hand I absolutely know for sure there were no teachers that looked like the teacher in question at my high school. Trust me, “we” as a collective group of over eager hypertestosterone laden male adolescent students surely would have noticed. It’s a shame youth is wasted on the young.

John Stevenson
08-15-2005, 07:08 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by speedy:
[QUOTE]
I know of a guy whos ma? or pa? caught him 'making tents' on his own when he was a youngster; they gave him such grief that he was afraid to hold it at the urinal for fear of discovery http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Ken

</font>

Would that be wet leg willy by any chance ??

Wirecutter
08-15-2005, 12:28 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by speedy:

Maybe it wasn`t the affair that did the damage but the hooha (drama)that everyone else performed at the time?
People get really screwed up about sex.
I know of a guy whos ma? or pa? caught him 'making tents' on his own when he was a youngster; they gave him such grief that he was afraid to hold it at the urinal for fear of discovery http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif
Ken
</font>

I've discussed this a bit offline, and the best explaination I can guess at is this. The "screwed up" part was probably a "pre-existing condition".

I can't imagine that Ms Turner wasn't already a little off. Certainly her judgement was. Now that she's famous, imagine the attention she's getting. I'm sure she'll pay for her actions many times over, in countless ways.

Siress
08-15-2005, 03:19 PM
Four years from now, that kid will have a Hustler contract or his own web site... Sad.

-Siress

------------------
|(Paintball^4-cheaters)| + machining = my life

speedy
08-15-2005, 05:39 PM
In all seriousness.
Our children/grandchildren really don`t have a shot at being children. Not as I remember childhood anyway. Most everything in the media seems to have a sexual or violent image to carry the message. There is way, way too much information coming at them.
Ken

Wirecutter
08-16-2005, 12:34 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by speedy:
In all seriousness.
Our children/grandchildren really don`t have a shot at being children. Not as I remember childhood anyway. Most everything in the media seems to have a sexual or violent image to carry the message. There is way, way too much information coming at them.
Ken </font>


This is one of the many things that has scared me away from having kids, so far. I'm told that the best we can do is to try to prepare them for it as best you can.

My father used to tell me how it "wasn't like it used to be". When I was in high school, we might bring a switchblade to school to show off. We didn't let many see it, and we certainly didn't consider actually using it on anyone. We were afraid of having it taken away. Now it isn't just knives, it's guns. And they get used.

Like it or not, it's here. Parents have to do the best they can. If I had kids like me, I'd be in prison for killing them, so I can only imagine what it must be like. But we either deal with it in the best way we can manage, or go extinct.

I haven't ruled out kids, yet, but I sure think real hard about this stuff. And yes, I thank my parents. I'm amazed we all lived through the Teenage Years.

Jason J
08-16-2005, 05:50 AM
"A 14 year old boy is NO child."

IOWOLF, you clearly haven't talked to a 14 yo boy lately.

As for all the rest:

I have a friend that was molested at about 15 by a friends alcoholic mother. She had a pretty good figure 15 years later, so I expect that she was a looker at the time. He does not look at the encounter with fondness, by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of the "Lost Boys" that has such a warped idea of what is appropriate and desirable that in 52 years he has never been able to sustain any kind of meaninful relationship, lives in an 1952 26' Airstream travel trailer and is thoroughly miserable about 90% of the time. When he gets drunk and talks about it he says "she made me what I am today".

So lets just cut all of the 7th grade snickering, wank-a-thon bull**** and remember that our first sexual experience imprints us with a kind of sexual template, and if that needs to be filled by beautiful women twice our age that can take you to forbidden, shameful, disgusting places that we can't leave alone, we are never going to find a place where we are comfortable. Except maybe an S&M brothel.

IOWOLF
08-16-2005, 05:57 AM
Oh but I have, even on this subject.

And how old are you?

speedy
08-16-2005, 06:36 AM
"I have a friend that was molested at about 15 by a friends alcoholic mother. in 52 years he has never been able to sustain any kind of meaninful relationship, lives in an 1952 26' Airstream travel trailer and is thoroughly miserable about 90% of the time. When he gets drunk and talks about it he says "she made me what I am today"

A lot of people suffer trauma but then..Any excuse will do for a sad life aye?....that is classic!

"So lets just cut all of the 7th grade snickering, wank-a-thon bull**** and remember that our first sexual experience imprints us with a kind of sexual template, and if that needs to be filled by beautiful women twice our age that can take you to forbidden, shameful, disgusting places that we can't leave alone, we are never going to find a place where we are comfortable. Except maybe an S&M brothel"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wank-a-thons amongst close friends; just as long as things don`t get out of hand. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Ken

[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 08-16-2005).]

bob308
08-17-2005, 08:53 AM
i am a lazy drunk bum. who can i blame it on? and how can i get money for it? dont want to hear about help yourself.

Jason J
08-17-2005, 12:11 PM
"Oh but I have, even on this subject.
And how old are you?"

I am 51 years old and I do volunteer work with teenagers.

Jason J
08-17-2005, 12:17 PM
"i am a lazy drunk bum. who can i blame it on? and how can i get money for it? dont want to hear about help yourself."

He is neither lazy nor a bum. He works 10 or 12 hours a day and does a good job at what he does. He just doesn't charge enough for what he does. He has never taken a dime from anyone and would sooner die that take any kind of public assistance.

To be clear, he doesn't blame her for his problems. I DO! He thinks he is being funny when he says she made him everything he is today.

Mcgyver
08-17-2005, 02:34 PM
i thought the article said 13? All locker room crack offs aside (and some were funny http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif), do any of you actually think that it was ok for her to do this?

I've got 4 kids. Modern society often has them put up a brave front but at 13 or 15, whatever, they are still children in respect to their ability to deal confidently with the adult world. This is statutory rape of a child, pure and simple.

And how messed is this chick? good looking, career, throw it all away for sex with a 13 year old!! She’s obviously a wack job. you think cuz she's a looker you'd want a crazy around? Many adults couldn't deal with a nutbar chick and a 13 year is supposed to cope? What if it had been a male teach + male student, or male teacher + 13 year female?

Your outlook has no virtue if you apply a double standard


[This message has been edited by Mcgyver (edited 08-17-2005).]

Your Old Dog
08-17-2005, 09:43 PM
This boy may suffer more damage from all the do gooders trying to convince him what a poor boy he is to have this heinous crime perpetrated against him.

I had to videotape some "grief counselors" talking to some BUFFALO (NOT NEW YORK CITY) 3d graders after 9/11. I was absolutly disgusted at how they worked. These kids were not in a grieving state and these people treated them like they should be. (That has to make these kids wonder whats wrong with them that they don't feel what these adults are saying they should) What the hell did humanity do before the invention of "grief counselors"? If someone is in grief you try to work thru it first yourself and then you go for help.

My guess is this kid thinks or feels he did something wrong. He answered the call of screaming testosterone as mankind has done since the beginning of time but now there's something wrong with it? We were designed this way as a means of perpetuating life I thought. It takes a pretty ugly woman to reach down into the jeans of a youngman and have him not like it. Don't know if any of noticed or not but there's a tremendous amount of feeling down there. It's not an accident.

As an adult what she did was clearly wrong. It does not mean that a healthy male age 13 can't deal with it on his own just fine providing the activity stops. We humans are quite resilient. I "survived" an encounter with a 17-18 year old female babysitter when I was about 6 or 7. That's where I learned the use of slow hands! It's just not as traumatic as you think. For a young female I think it would be altogether a differant act and certainly scar them emotionally. Not boys, it's what we're supposed to do. That's why it's up every morning before you are ready to go to work http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Don't greive for the lad but burn the bitch at the stake.

edited to add this:

Why do you suppose there are more people on the planet then tigers? Could it have something to do with our genetic code telling us what to do? I'm a big proponent of genetic code http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 08-18-2005).]

andy_b
08-17-2005, 10:22 PM
as for 14-year-olds being "children", weren't people MARRIED by the age of 15 years ago????

and in my highschool years i had several very attractive teachers. i don't care what any of you say, if i had a chance to fondle them after class i would've gone for it with gusto. just like we all knew guys with hot moms or older sisters. everyone dreamed about a chance with them (well, except the son or brother).

now if someone forced themself on a 14-year-old (or any age), that is a different story.

andy b.

bob308
08-18-2005, 08:40 AM
ok i stand corected on the lazy bum coment. but if he is happy and a productive person then dont find excuesses for him.

now for her she should be hung up just like a man would be for the same thing. after all that is the watch word of womens lib. equal to man.

Jason J
08-18-2005, 11:53 AM
" but if he is happy and a productive person then dont find excuesses for him."

Please reread my post. He is anything BUT happy. I think I described him as "thoroughly miserable 90% of the time".

Part of the problem is that he got the message that he was supposed to feel lucky to have banged her, when in truth he is miserable over it. Obviously there must be something wrong with him if he feels miserable instead of feeling very lucky. If you don't think THAT messes with a 15 year olds head, think again.

Jason J
08-18-2005, 11:58 AM
"now for her she should be hung up just like a man would be for the same thing. after all that is the watch word of womens lib. equal to man."

I am glad to see that you have an understanding of what the womans rights movement worked so hard for in the past. Just one small point: What they were/are after is equal treatment, not being the same as.

I think it is a crying shame that Mary Kay did not get prosecuted for the second child she concieved with the boy after her first arrest. She was in prison about 8 miles from where I sit, BTW



[This message has been edited by Jason J (edited 08-18-2005).]

spope14
08-18-2005, 08:58 PM
Boy oh boy are you guys just getting me all psyched up to go back to teaching!!!! Thanks.....

Bottom line, the teacher crossed the line. Note I did not say guy or gal, I said teacher. It is not even so much the babe teacher boinking the young student, or even a male teacher on a young female. it is using a position of presumed, traditional, and societial authority (so to speak)and trust to take advantage of those under your authority. If this were a female police officer, would we ll say th same things?

It is the idea that the teacher (substitute the title police officer if you wish) creates a potential position where favoritism in a classroom could exist for the student in question, or if things suddenly went sour, could create a situation where the student could never be treated fairly.

The potential situation is also created that should other students know, they could hold the teacher subject to blackmail, thus creating an unfairly favorable situation in treatment of the knowing group of students - the blackmail having the potential for the teacher to lose a job, or be subject to criminal prosecution. The same could go the other way if the teacher in question were boinking a group of students - The teacher has an upper hand to create a real bad situation. Ever hear of Pamela Smart in NH? Look it up.

When you send your kid to school, you have that "trust" that the teachers will treat the kid right, and that the teahers relly know how to act right. You don't even in your wildest imagination think about "hey, is my 14 year old gonna get some teacher 'tang today?" or "hey, maybe my kid will get lucky with Mrs./Mr. #######".

It may have the indicators of "who is scarred", but the situation is even deeper than this. It is the same situation that is possible for law enforcement, clergy, and in the military where fraterinzation (however you spell that) laws exist, and where soldiers have been compromised by the locals and spys. Persons are placed in a traditional position of high trust by those they serve - both young and old. Persons are placed there because we have the faith they know how to act accordingly to societial norms and even ABOVE these norms. These people KNOW BEYOND A DOUBT that this is the expectation coming in, it is in their training, and even their contracts (It is in mine, I assure you - both training and contract). They - I know the punishments are more severe than the mormal person might face, and for a reason.

Trust and all that I mention is the reason I feel no pity for this lady, the priests that perverted the trust and soiled otherwise good clergy's reputation, and for police who abuse the trusts as well.




[This message has been edited by spope14 (edited 08-19-2005).]