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wierdscience
08-23-2005, 10:15 PM
Got this niffty little two-cycle drill,1/2" cap chuck,really well built.It's labeled as a "Drillgine" Made by Precision Multiple controls inc,Ridgewood,NJ.
The tag that has the model/serial number is worn off.Trying to figure out who made the engine.It looks like a RC aircraft engine.It will run,if I can find a carb diaphram,but so far nothing has turned up.Any clues?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/drill1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/drill2.jpg

J Tiers
08-23-2005, 10:26 PM
No definite idea, although I think I have seen another one, possibly at an engine show.

How about McCulloch as the origin of the engine itself? I've seen other special-purpose engines like that made by them and integrated into devices by some other company.

Them or any of the chainsaw folks.... that engine sorta says chainsaw to me.

Davis In SC
08-23-2005, 10:32 PM
On the subject of carbs, & diaphragms, does anyone know a source of Ohlsen & Rice engine parts??? I have 2, one on a generator, one for a bicycle, (Chicken Power) Both will run off gas poured in carb, but carbs are in need of rebuilds... Thanks

JCHannum
08-23-2005, 10:39 PM
I believe that engine is also an Ohlsen & Rice. I have seen a couple of those drills, but never been able to get one.

They used that or similar engine on the small generators also.

As far as parts, no clue, but RC suppliers may be a good place to start.

CCWKen
08-23-2005, 11:06 PM
What a neat looking drill! I've got a couple of new Walbro carbs for 2-cycles. If you can get the mount dimentions and bore, I'll check on these tomorrow. The carb may not match exactly but it should work. I replaced the carbs on a few tools around here. I got 6 carbs off ebay for less than what a single rebuild kit cost retail.

chkz
08-23-2005, 11:11 PM
I'd go with the suggestion of replacing the carb from a model you can easily get parts for...maybe from some weedwhip thing or lawnmower/chainsaw...even if you had to make up a mount for it probably easier in the long run.

Nice looking machine by the way...

Chris

wierdscience
08-23-2005, 11:19 PM
I did some Googling and found it is infact an Ohlsson&Rice engine,but still no clue for parts.
I wonder if there is a source for blank diaphram rubber?

Davis In SC
08-23-2005, 11:29 PM
Good Idea, on finding carbs & fitting them, I will check Ebay... I remember years ago, I used to see hundreds of new carbs at the local flea markets, usually for a quarter each. Flea market was only a few miles from the Homelite factory... If memory serves me, I think they were Tillotsons...
I do know my O&R engines use Walbro....

Davis In SC
08-23-2005, 11:32 PM
From looks of air cleaner, I think it is Ohlsen& Rice... I once saw a Circular Saw with an O&R, but it was red...

wierdscience
08-23-2005, 11:49 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Davis In SC:
From looks of air cleaner, I think it is Ohlsen& Rice... I once saw a Circular Saw with an O&R, but it was red... </font>

From the little(very little)I have found on the web,they made saws,pumps,drills,generators,lifeboat pumps and generators and the list goes on.

I wonder if neoprene or viton sheet the same thickness would work for the diaphram.

The Doctor
08-23-2005, 11:59 PM
Weird, you are definitely correct, that is an Olsen & Rice(O&R) engine. They also made a complete chainsaw(Orline) that used the same engine, and I have heard that made another chainsaw which used a direct drive engine. I had a few of their chainsaws back in the early 80s, I used to use them a lot to clear our cycle trails. I talked to several small engine shops about them back then, every single one of them said the chainsaws were junk and that the company had gone out of business in the 70s. Olson and Rice did in fact build model airplane engines way way back, and I believe this engine is an adaptation of one of those model airplane engines.

Despite the fact that many small engine places told me they were absolute garbage, I thought they were not a bad chainsaw. I must've had four or five of them and various states of repair, any local shops it had when they took in trade were usually willing to give them up for $5 or $10 apiece. There were few annoyances with them. The first annoyance was the carburetor adjustments, just like a model airplane engine, you needed to adjust the needle valve for peak rpm each time you fired a saw up, and sometimes you needed to readjust it while you're cutting. The other problem was the location of the air filters, it was a stupid round thing stuck on the backend of the carb, the intake was also pointing towards the ground and is located below the bottom of the saw. If you sat the saw down in wet, soft ground, you would pack the air filter full of dirt and the saw would not run until you cleaned it out. Overall, it was good for occasional use. However, when faced with a major tree removal after a huge storm, I ended up spending $100 on a used Stihl 010. Besides having a bit more cutting power, it was a no nonsense saw. Fill it up, started up, and cut. No carb adjustments, no clogged intake, and it had an automatic bar Oiler :-) Only maintenance was chain adjustment.

Well, perhaps a little too much reminiscence from me. Where to get a carb kit? Well, I think you're there be hard-pressed to do this. I am reasonably sure the cards that use were their own design, or were custom-made for them, I have not seen them used on any other equipment. First thing to do would be check with small engine shops which have been around since the early 70s, if they have something on the shelf I'm sure the be happy to get rid of it. I have not heard of these engines Inc. popular with vintage model aircraft types, I doubt you can find parts there. I will also say that I have never seen that superthin diaphragm material anywhere, and I will remind you that there is usually a metal insert in the center which must be sealed and installed to the diaphragm. I have seen a different type of diaphragm material used, the carbs on my jet ski used a thin, clear plastic. They were just cut out sheets, there were no kind of inserts going through them at any point, perhaps you could try to make do with something like this? Another suggestion would be to try to fix any diaphragm leaks by coating the air side of the diaphragm with a gas resistant and flexible type of adhesive. I have done this in the past with carbs I could not get parts for, and have had some success. Before you even go to this point, clean out your gas tank, clean all the parts to the carb, and make sure you have good fuel supply as far as the carb. I was also told by many small engine shop that these things had constant ignition trouble, at least part of which is caused by the flywheel end bearing being extremely loose in fit.

If you definitely have a leaky diaphragm in your carb, and you have exhausted all means of getting a replacement carb kit, here is my next brilliant suggestion. Find yourself a diaphragm type carb that has a diaphragm slightly larger than the one on the engine. If you get lucky, the size of the metal insert inside will fit in the fuel chamber of this carb. At that point, just cut the diaphragm down to fit and you're ready to run. Somebody suggested trying to fit a different carb to the engine, this is perhaps an even better idea. The only problem is that these engines seem to have a rather small carb compared to what I'm used to, finding one that small enough may be a bit of a pain. Around me, I see weed whackers out to the curb all the time. You may pick a few of these up and try them for parts. I think your drill is not only a neat piece, but is also potentially very useful. I would say that it's definitely worth the time to try to fix.

Ed

The Doctor
08-24-2005, 12:04 AM
Okay, I just remembered something else. I once accidentally found a web site dedicated to old chainsaws. You may want to Google on that, if they have a forum, someone there may tell you a little more about where to get parts for it.

Somebody above also mentions that they are engine uses a Walbro carb, and I believe that company is still in business. Perhaps you can get lucky, and a local shop can match the part up.

Ed

wierdscience
08-24-2005, 12:10 AM
Thanks Ed,I was thinking of a weedeater carb,got two or three donors in the shed right now.
The little dinky carb is down in a hole basically and is surrounded by much other junk.Fitting even a weed wacher carb in there would be difficult(think 5lb suasage in a 3lb skin)

Do you or anyone else see any reason why I couldn't make an adpter to move the carb out further from the engine,say 1" more or less?I don't see any,am I missing something?

CCWKen
08-24-2005, 12:23 AM
A longer carb runner souldn't be a problem and will probably raise torque a couple of ounces--As long as you don't go overboard. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

By the way, let me know if you want one of these NEW carbs. I'll shoot a pic and get it to ya in the morning. (NC) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/Loads/2005_0824Carb-WA228A0005.jpg

[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 08-24-2005).]

Old Time
08-24-2005, 01:54 AM
I have worked on both the chainsaw and drill, brand new they don't have any power. The carberator was a gennie Ohlsen&Rice. After Orline got out or sold out, the units were sold buy Rotorway in AZ. I doubt the thing will have enough crankcase pulse to run a Walbro carb, if you do this remember, you will have to run an impulse line from the crankcase to the carb. Good luck

hoffman
08-24-2005, 02:15 AM
They make battery operated drills now. They even have batteries that you can recharge http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Seriously, that is a cool outfit!

------------------
Deep Sea Tool Salvage

[This message has been edited by hoffman (edited 08-24-2005).]

The Doctor
08-24-2005, 04:04 AM
No power? I must disagree with Old Time, at least partially. As I said in my first post here, my Stihl 010 out cut the Orline, but not by a huge amount. But, I will also say this. The character of the power was greatly different between these two saws. The Stihl had huge amounts of torque, you could press to chain firmly against the wood before you pulled the trigger, it would rev right up and cut through it. It was also hard to bog down in the middle of a cut, even if you are pushing fairly hard with a dull chain. The Orline, on the other hand, needed to be screaming to make any power. You had to make sure the chain wasn't touching the wood before you try to rev it up, or it would just sit there and moan without really doing much of anything. You also had to be careful not to push it too hard in the middle of a cut, because if you drop the RPMs just a little, it will bog right down and stop cutting altogether. So, I'm saying it could cut fast, but required careful handling. The problem was very plain to see, despite being the same size saw, I would say that the Stihl probably had three times the displacement. The Orline had a tiny engine, which was tuned for very high RPM power and drove the chain through a rather steep gear reduction. Like most two strokes which are designed with the emphasis on maximum power, its power band was located high up and it was very narrow. Perfectly fine for a model airplane, a little lacking for a serious chainsaw. Still, if the drill has decent gear reduction, it may be quite usable.

As to extending the intake runner, that will not be a problem at all. Despite the fact that the engine looks like it uses a disk valve for intake, is actually a reed valve design. This tends to make the intake diameter and length a little less critical than it would be with a positively controlled intake valve, at least when you are dealing with something like a drill. I would keep the inside diameter of the intake passage about the same as stock, just extended to where ever you can mount the carb safely. Also, try to pick a car with about the same diameter as the one you have now. If it is a bit larger in the throat, I might suggest that you install a mechanical throttle stop to prevent it from opening all the way. This is something that is commonly done on model airplane engines which are converted from glow power to diesel, as the diesel runs at lower RPM and prefers a smaller car diameter. You can play with your carb opening and high speed needle until you get it to where it runs best.

I don't know why Old Time would suspect it doesn't have enough crank case pulse to operate the carb. Like most two strokes, the case is just large enough to fit the crankshaft and bottom of the cylinder, I would expect its crank case pressure characteristics to be just like any other two-stroke.

If you are thinking about using a carb from a model airplane engine, quit thinking that now! For one, those are designed for methanol based fuels, and therefore are designed to flow much more fuel than what you want with gas. Also, they typically have no way to regulate the fuel coming in and no means to pump the fuel. For this reason, they almost always run with exhaust pressure into the fuel tank, which I don't really think you want to do. Also, without the diaphragm operated intake needle, the gas will come running right out the intake if the carb is below the level of fuel in the tank.

I will say again, clean the fuel system and check for any plug passages first, you may not even need parts. After that, since I believe somebody offered you a free carb, thank them profusely and take them up on the offer :-)

BTW, I never got clever with mine, but you may have some tuning options. The cylinder screws into the crank case, and I believe there are shims under it to adjust the compression and piston-to-head clearance(actually no separate head, it is built into the top of the cylinder). Anyway, if you're not happy with its performance once you have a running, this is an avenue of tuning to explore. As long as you have enough clearance, you can try to lower the cylinder slightly. This will raise the compression, but perhaps more importantly, it will cause the exhaust ports to open later and close earlier. This should have the effect of moving the power curve down the RPMs a little. You may hurt something monkeying around with this adjustment, so I would only try it if you really can't deal with the drill otherwise. If you wanted to take it even further with the port timing, you could cut away at the squish band in the top of the cylinder to give you a little more piston clearance, then lower the cylinder so more. Ignition timing might also be worth messing with, although I will warn you that I have seen two-stroke dirt bikes with holes in Pistons from people advancing the timing too much.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Ed


[This message has been edited by The Doctor (edited 08-24-2005).]

chkz
08-24-2005, 08:11 AM
battery operated drills ????

lol

ka6gzj
08-24-2005, 03:42 PM
if you know anyone that works for your local utility as a lineman you might ask them. i used to use one like it for boreing holes in line poles for cross arms and such.

good luck. jim

Alistair Hosie
08-24-2005, 03:46 PM
I used to have a simlar gas drill trouble is they are very very noisy little critters good luck Darin pal Alistair

i2tgrad
08-24-2005, 05:27 PM
There is an MSN group at
http://groups.msn.com/OhlssonRiceCheminolResource/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us
click on Message Board on the top left side,
many of the posters have parts for sale and you can download pictures and parts lists by clicking on the other options. FWIW http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//cool.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
Got this niffty little two-cycle drill,1/2" cap chuck,really well built.It's labeled as a "Drillgine" Made by Precision Multiple controls inc,Ridgewood,NJ.
The tag that has the model/serial number is worn off.Trying to figure out who made the engine.It looks like a RC aircraft engine.It will run,if I can find a carb diaphram,but so far nothing has turned up.Any clues?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/drill1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/drill2.jpg </font>



[This message has been edited by i2tgrad (edited 08-24-2005).]

PolskiFran
08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
This link might help: http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17063&highlight=drillgine

Frank