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View Full Version : Metal saw...anyone know of it?



torker
08-26-2005, 08:01 AM
A guy from another BBS that I visit showed this... He says it cut through 1/2" thick steel like butter and even collects all it's own chips inside a cover in the saw. Anyone know anything about it? He didn't say who made it or anything.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/0b382a9d.jpg

ahidley
08-26-2005, 08:16 AM
Believe it or not Harbor Freight sells one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=8897

Mike Gibson
08-26-2005, 08:52 AM
Here is a site where you can download video of circular saw cutting 1/4" steel plate.
http://www.metaldevil.com/seeing.html

Rustystud
08-26-2005, 09:09 AM
Yes, it is true. Our local steel distributor sells them for around $460.00. They have been on the market for a couple of years now. Those who have them swear by them. I gues I'll have to keep using my bandsaw, chop saw, and torch since they are paid for.
Rustystud

rockrat
08-26-2005, 09:26 AM
Yup, there was one at work. It got used quite a bit when everyone found out what it did. It was a little noisy as I remember, but a nice tool if you got the money.

GregC
08-26-2005, 10:06 AM
Are the blades expensive? do they last?

phil burman
08-26-2005, 10:06 AM
According to the blurb you can use the blade on a normal circular saw. The blades are around US$ 50.

Phil Burman

ahidley
08-26-2005, 12:08 PM
I just ordered a blade... $11

http://www.mcmaster.com/

4082a25

andy_b
08-26-2005, 12:51 PM
i'm durn cornfused. why not just buy one of these and put the metal-cutting blade in it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-7-1-4-Circular-Saw-Retail-59-99-Wholesale-506_W0QQitemZ5995031467QQcategoryZ20785QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

who cares if it only lasts a year, or even a week?

on a slight side-note, i love the text of that Horror Fright ad:
"Cut through metal as thick as 0.118'' (3mm) to 0.275'' (7mm)"

well obviously if it cuts through metal as thick as 0.275" then i HOPE it cuts through metal as thick as 0.118".

andy b.

3 Phase Lightbulb
08-26-2005, 01:29 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by andy_b:
i'm durn cornfused. why not just buy one of these and put the metal-cutting blade in it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-7-1-4-Circular-Saw-Retail -59-99-Wholesale-506_W0QQitemZ5995031467QQcategoryZ20785QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-7-1-4-Circular-Saw-Retail-59-99-Wholesale-506_W0QQitemZ5995031467QQcategoryZ20785QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

who cares if it only lasts a year, or even a week?

on a slight side-note, i love the text of that Horror Fright ad:
"Cut through metal as thick as 0.118'' (3mm) to 0.275'' (7mm)"

well obviously if it cuts through metal as thick as 0.275" then i HOPE it cuts through metal as thick as 0.118".

andy b.</font>


At 4500 RPM, it wouldn't last more than a few seconds (The blade)..

-Adrian

tattoomike68
08-26-2005, 01:33 PM
I bough some 1" x 6" flat bar from some guys down the road , they sawed off a chunk in about 20 seconds, it left a nice finish like it was milled.

I was impressed. It was much better than packing a big long heavy chunk to a bandsaw.

AZSORT
08-26-2005, 01:44 PM
The McMaster listed by AHidley is for cutting tin roofing etc. The blade we're talking about here is McMaster# 2431A2 ($56) which has high-temp carbide/titanium tips.

BillJ
08-26-2005, 02:03 PM
The video says you can use a standard circular saw or a "special metal cutting saw". What's the difference? RPM?

Evan
08-26-2005, 02:32 PM
Yeah, rpm. I had a chance to buy one at the auction I was at a few weeks a go. I didn't 'cause I was saving my money for the lathe if it went at a reasonable price. I should have bought the saw. They were worm gear drive saws in good condition and there were three of them. They went for $25 apiece.

deanq
08-26-2005, 03:04 PM
"At 4500 RPM, it wouldn't last more than a few seconds (The blade).."

Why not? The blade is rated @ 5800 RPM and the saw operates @ 3500 RPM. I'm not saying that it WOULD work on a regular circular saw, just that the saw/blade RPM isn't a limitation.
Dean

3 Phase Lightbulb
08-26-2005, 03:25 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by deanq:
"At 4500 RPM, it wouldn't last more than a few seconds (The blade).."

Why not? The blade is rated @ 5800 RPM and the saw operates @ 3500 RPM. I'm not saying that it WOULD work on a regular circular saw, just that the saw/blade RPM isn't a limitation.
Dean</font>


Good point.. I wonder if the specs/manual for the HF unit are correct.. 3500 RPM sounds extreamly high especially for a 7.5" diam blade. I would expect the blade to overheat instantly.

-Adrian

3 Phase Lightbulb
08-26-2005, 03:31 PM
I wonder if the blades are chip makers or if they are abrasion/grinding/cutoff wheels. Anyone know?

tattoomike68
08-26-2005, 03:46 PM
the one I saw was carbide tipped. It ate steel like nothing.

ahidley
08-26-2005, 03:48 PM
in the video at the beginning of this thread it shows chips on the floor.

Evan
08-26-2005, 03:55 PM
Waitaminute. I'm with Adrian on this one. 3500 rpm with a 7.25" blade works out to 6,642 sfm. That sounds a bit fast to me.

3 Phase Lightbulb
08-26-2005, 03:56 PM
If it's a chip maker blade, I wonder how they are keeping it cool enough. I should buy the HF unit anyway.

I assume these saws don't have a garden hose attachment? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Adrian

John Stevenson
08-26-2005, 04:01 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Yeah, rpm. I had a chance to buy one at the auction I was at a few weeks a go. I didn't 'cause I was saving my money for the lathe if it went at a reasonable price. I should have bought the saw. They were worm gear drive saws in good condition and there were three of them. They went for $25 apiece. </font>


Not the same thing Evan.
Those worm drive saws run at about 100 to 150 rpm with HSS blades, like a slitting saw.
The others they are talking about are just like circular wood saws and chop saws.

We need Tim Leech to chime in here as I know he has these in both types, hand held and chop saw type and has had them for a couple of years working commercially in a boat dock.

Tim you there?, finished your tea yet?
Well wipe your chin and get typing http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S.

Evan
08-26-2005, 04:04 PM
Yeah, I understand it isn't the same since I downloaded the specs for the HF saw. So, John, how do they run it at 6600 sfm?

3 Phase Lightbulb
08-26-2005, 04:12 PM
I checked my calendar, and it's not April 1st, so that can't be it either...

I can't watch the video until I get home, but is the saw in the video being used under-water by any chance? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Adrian

Timleech
08-26-2005, 05:22 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:

Not the same thing Evan.
Those worm drive saws run at about 100 to 150 rpm with HSS blades, like a slitting saw.
The others they are talking about are just like circular wood saws and chop saws.

We need Tim Leech to chime in here as I know he has these in both types, hand held and chop saw type and has had them for a couple of years working commercially in a boat dock.

Tim you there?, finished your tea yet?
Well wipe your chin and get typing http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S.</font>


Been out boating today - very rare for me these days.

I've got a 7 1/4" portable saw, runs at 3500 rpm. It's a real saw, not an abrasive thing, cuts 6mm plate well though blade life is limited at that thickness. Expensive to run in terms of price per foot of cut, but for straight cuts it's streets ahead of oxy or plasma in that you can easily cut to within a 1/16" or less of marks and there's a nice clean edge needing the very minimum of prepping for welding etc.
There's a 9" saw available, supposed to be a much better tool & cuts bevels too, but much pricier.
Also have a Makita chop saw with a similar type of blade though IIRC it's 14" dia. That's a great tool for the price, but *only* for mild steel. Try cutting anything else & your expensive blade will soon be dead.
With both it's critical to have the blade more or less up to speed before engaging with the work.

Both saws use a special tooth profile, alternate teeth are square and chamfered corners, the local saw doctors seem to know all about them & can replace teeth no problem.

Tim

MMurphy
08-26-2005, 05:46 PM
I went to the morse site, looked at the videos and checked out the rest of the site. Apparently there is something special about the design of the blade.

Morse is selling a 7.5" saw and its advertised at 3500 RPM!!?? The blade is honking on in the video and the saw used is the one they sell.

They also claim that the cutoff piece can be picked up with bare fingers as soon as it drops, not hot!!??

Gotta have one of these. I'll order the HF one as a place holder. I expect the HF is a copy of the morse. When I can save the shekels I'll buy US. Probally morse.

Mike

JPR
08-26-2005, 06:14 PM
I have a old B&D (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-6-Black-Decker-Circular-Saw-Made-in-the-50s_W0QQitemZ5994970483QQcategoryZ20785QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem) (all metal housing, no plastic) that has cut alot of steel using a blade like this cutoff wheel (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90405)

[This message has been edited by JPR (edited 08-26-2005).]

CCWKen
08-26-2005, 07:08 PM
No problem. I've cut 6x1/2" flat with my Sears skill saw and a metal cutting blade. Just make sure you blow out all the fine abrasive when you're done.

IOWOLF
08-26-2005, 07:17 PM
This isnt the counter rotateing blades is it?

------------------
The tame Wolf !

Last Old Dog
08-26-2005, 08:04 PM
I've just retired and old Porter Cable 14" metal cutting chop saw. 80-90 tooth special carbide blade spun ~1300 RPM. Soon built a steel base with air clamping. We cut thousands of lengths of 3/8 - 12 and 1/2 - 10 Acme rod. Quick token touch on a wire wheel and the threads were good to go, no grinding, no filing, no stems, no seeds, no sparks, no abrasive dust floating around. Hundreds of cuts through structual rectangular tubing. Feed is the key to keep the blade cool. Quick learning curve.

Not affiliated with Your Old Dog

torker
08-26-2005, 08:13 PM
Hey guys! I finally got ahold of this guy again. This saw is an Evolution Xtreme 230.
Cost was a bit over $500 Cnd and was purchased from Quality Sales and Servives from Westbank, BC.
The blades are worth $70Cnd.
The company says the blades will work in a regular skil saw but won't last as long as the Evo saw turns at a far lower rpm. It has a laser guide and is fully adjustable for depth and angle.
They claim that the blade will cut 3000 inches before sharpening in mild steel. They also have blades for alu and SS.
IF they meant 3000 inches in 1/2" then it's not too bad. If it's 3000" total (thickness X length) then it works out to 60 cents a foot. Figure in the close tolerance work and very little (if any) grinding, it's still not a bad deal for cutting plate.
Here's a pic of the chip collector. The guy says the saw cuts 1/2" steel like plywood and doesn't kick back or shake at all...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/bd54d77d.jpg
Russ

Evan
08-27-2005, 12:42 AM
I watched the videos on the website. It seems to cut mild steel like it was wood. But, cutting SS looked like if you don't hold your tongue just right it will jump out of the cut. Still, it's impressive. I can only guess that there is some new carbide formulation that can take the impact and stress.

torker
08-27-2005, 01:41 AM
Evan...there has to be something "fairly" new about this. The guy who showed me this is an old fabricator from Ft.Saint James area. He's really impressed with this saw. He rebuilds some huge dozer blades and has to cut a lot of plate in a bare bones type shop. He say's he can easily run this with one hand and with a good straight edge can get really good tolerances with his cuts compared to the ol' torch or plasma.

phil burman
08-27-2005, 05:41 AM
Hi torker,

Not sure I agree with your math. If it's 3000"=length time thickness then for 1/2" thickness you can do 6000". Divide by 12 you get 500 ft. 70 dollars for 500 ft = 0.14 dollars per ft.

Regards
Phil

torker
08-27-2005, 07:53 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by phil burman:
Hi torker,

Not sure I agree with your math. If it's 3000"=length time thickness then for 1/2" thickness you can do 6000". Divide by 12 you get 500 ft. 70 dollars for 500 ft = 0.14 dollars per ft.

Regards
Phil</font>
Phil...read what you wrote. "They" claim you can cut 3000 inches (linear). For every thickness this will cut down on the length the blade will last.....it has to. What if it was 2 inches thick? Your math wouldn't worky there for sure. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
The guy didn't know what thickness they claim the 3000 inches was for. I'll try to find out.

torker
08-27-2005, 08:02 AM
Well looky here...I found the link! Says you can cut 260 ft. of *1/4"* thick metal. Also says the max width is 3 1/2". Hmmm the guy I talked to said this this ripped through 6"X6"X1/2" thick angle like nothing. Said he started on one side and went over the top straight through the other.
http://www.welddirect.co.uk/welding_info.php/products_id/17

phil burman
08-27-2005, 01:52 PM
Hi again torker,

What you say is what the math calculates. Check the math. I'm only looking at your math, which is wrong.

regards
Phil


Phil...read what you wrote. "They" claim you can cut 3000 inches (linear). For every thickness this will cut down on the length the blade will last.....it has to. What if it was 2 inches thick? Your math wouldn't worky there for sure.
The guy didn't know what thickness they claim the 3000 inches was for. I'll try to find out.

Timleech
08-27-2005, 02:20 PM
http://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/ukevolution180.htm

This is the saw I use. They claim up to 80m length of cut in 6mm plate per blade. That's near enough 3000 inches. My experience is that it's so easy to catch a tooth wrongly & chip it, real world figure is maybe less than half that. There are also diminishing returns once a blade starts to get blunt, if you change it early it's probably worth resharpening. If you persist until it's cutting really badly you might as well throw it away. I'd expect slightly better economy from the bigger saw, they weren't available when I bought mine, but I see they quote the same 80m figure for both saws!

Tim


[This message has been edited by Timleech (edited 08-27-2005).]

wierdscience
08-27-2005, 08:38 PM
Here you go Russ,these saws are old news here,lots and lots of shipyards and fab shops nearby.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=200304653&R=200304653

The way the blades work is the tooth geometry and the tooth material.A regular 40tooth carbide wood saw has alternate top bevel teeth,meaning each tooth tip angles either right or left by about 15*,they also have a 7-12* positive rake.I have accidentaly cut trough a section of 1-1/2" x 1/4" andle iron with one,it cut easy and didn't really chip up the blade even thou it quit cutting wood very good.It cut the angle right off nice and clean even.
The metal cutters have a negative rake and in the case of this saw I posted the link to it uses cermet tips insted of regular c-3 or4 carbide.

I don't need a hand held saw,but I do like the chopsaws.I have a super heavy 14" saw I built that's belt drive,all I would have to do is set up for the right speed and make a better vice to make it work.

MickeyD
08-28-2005, 12:36 AM
I have a Porter Cable 14" metal cutting saw ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000222X3/104-8262655-6223169?v=glance . It is the best thing that I have ever used for cutting aluminum, but it is very loud on steel. If you apply steady pressure on the blade, the cut comes out with a mirror finish. I found that if you put a narrow line of tap magic on your cut line, it helps the finish.

I have been debating about getting a plasma cutter for thin plate, but now I am thinking about one of the hand held saws. How far do they throw the hot chips?

Timleech
08-28-2005, 05:06 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MickeyD:

I have been debating about getting a plasma cutter for thin plate, but now I am thinking about one of the hand held saws. How far do they throw the hot chips?</font>

Most are collected in the saw body, none are thrown very far.

Tim

torker
08-28-2005, 08:46 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by phil burman:
Hi again torker,

What you say is what the math calculates. Check the math. I'm only looking at your math, which is wrong.

regards
Phil</font>

Sorry Phil...I still stand by my math. I reread my post. Maybe you didn't get the part about the 3000" (total..lengthXthickness). This would only in fact give you 1500"(125 ft) of total cut length NOT 6000" The company claims 3000" in 1/4" thickness. I figure you'd have to cut that "length" in half with 1/2"...ergo the 1500" figure. I only did this in my head but the actual figure should be 56 cents per foot. Of course if you add in the extra 15% sales tax (up here) then it's more than that.
weird...I've used the metal chop saws in a couple of shops up here but they aren't very common. My main interest in this is for plate. I flame or plasma cut everything in my shop which is pretty economical but the edge dressing do cost money. I think this thing (saw) is actually a little pricey to operate now that I think about it...I forgot to factor in the $25 Purolator delivery fee per blade! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by torker (edited 08-28-2005).]

phil burman
08-28-2005, 11:18 AM
Hi again torker,

You should then really be talking units of feet.inches or in^2.

I guess its all in the interpretation of the words. Not really that important or worth the effort. We are probably passing each outher in the door way. Best to move on.

Best Regards
Phil