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IOWOLF
09-08-2005, 07:23 AM
$2000.00 cards are being given to refugees, WOW

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The tame Wolf !

rockrat
09-08-2005, 08:12 AM
You don't... have... to live like a refugee.
Sorry, someone had to do it.

$2K sounds good to me, but I bet it doesnt make a dent if you've lost everything.

As much as I get pissed about government spending, at least money went to someone who needs it instead of the fat cats pockets.

But Im sure we will hear how some congressman found a way to skim some of that refugee money into his pocket as well.

rock-

JRouche
09-08-2005, 08:39 AM
Hey ATM cards but no ATMs. That is how our government "trys" to fix problems, throw money at it.

FEMA showed up after the Nothridge, Ca. earthquake. I dont remember them "giving" any money away. Sure you could get a loan or a low interest rate SBA loan but freebie, he, no way. And yes, if was not comparable on scale but there were still people in need and displaced from their homes.

JRouche

GregC
09-08-2005, 09:04 AM
I can only pray to God that they can be used to buy beer and cigarettes.

HTRN
09-08-2005, 09:24 AM
That's the two things that it can't be spent on. But don't worry, somebody will figure away around that.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://thisoldshed.tripod.com)

DR
09-08-2005, 09:41 AM
$2000 debit cards, huh?

My wife and I were just discussing our local homeless, the guys at the freeway exits begging for money, the "will work for food" types. (most actually don't want to work for food, just want handouts).

We were thinking the smartest thing those guys could do would be to head straight for the hurricane area and plead they'd been wiped out.

mayfieldtm
09-08-2005, 11:30 AM
A freak thing happened here in Portland, Oregon.
A piece of Katrina broke off and went rite through my shop!
Messed it all up.
Think I have a claim?

Tom M.

Weston Bye
09-08-2005, 11:54 AM
Tom, look here:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9227930/

Maybe you'll get lucky and be able to collect your $2000 debit card.

Wes

Happy
09-08-2005, 11:56 AM
I bought a card on ebay for $300.

just kidding.

Rustybolt
09-08-2005, 01:13 PM
I'm willing to bet that most of those people would rather have their homes and all their stuff back instead of a debit card for 2000 bucks.
Personally I have no trouble with them spending it on anything they want. Once you give something to somebody it's theirs to do with what they want.Otherwise it isn't charity.

garyphansen
09-08-2005, 03:32 PM
The problem I see with the $2000. is, why do they get it when other people in other parts of the country who get wiped out do not. Gary P. Hansen

GregC
09-08-2005, 03:37 PM
"Personally I have no trouble with them spending it on anything they want. Once you give something to somebody it's theirs to do with what they want.Otherwise it isn't charity."

Charity is not a one-way street. There's an implied trust when receiving charity; it says that the recepient will use the money to get back on his/her feet, not to get drunk. Doesn't it piss you off at least a little knowing that the money the government took from you is buying some hump his daily pack of smokes? That's money you could have used to buy your 5 year old daughter her next meal.

Besides, I don't recall FEMA being a 'charity' agency. Disaster assistance is not charity.

Ries
09-08-2005, 03:49 PM
I seem to recall that if you were a white woman, living in a large house in the suburbs, with two $50,000 cars, and a leather couch, and your husband died in the WTC terrorist attack on 9-11, you got a free check for up to several MILLION dollars.

So I cant get very upset when somebody who lost their house, their pets, their furniture, EVERY SINGLE THING they owned, along with, in many cases, friends and relatives, along with their job, hell, their whole town- they get 2 grand.

Even if you were a smart guy, who bundled your family into the car, and evacuated, how long would you last with no job, no house, no stuff, no income, just on the money in your checking account?

I dont know what the answer is, but a couple of grand from the feds isnt gonna do much but tide most of these folks over for a couple of weeks- at best, they are staying in motels, and eating all their meals out- at worst, like the guy arrested in Atlanta for panhandling, they are living in their cars with their whole families.

3 Phase Lightbulb
09-08-2005, 04:03 PM
I'd be quite pissed off if I lost everything and the government only gave me a 2k ATM card. Last year I paid over 50K in federal/state taxes. Whatever amount they give people, it should be more or less inline with what these people have been giving to the government.

IOWOLF
09-08-2005, 05:06 PM
Most prol'y never seen 2k all at one shot,I would take it and start a new life somewhere.Or at least try.

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The tame Wolf !

GregC
09-08-2005, 05:11 PM
"Whatever amount they give people, it should be more or less inline with what these people have been giving to the government."

Therein lies the rub...many of them have been GIVING nothing to the government - they have been on welfare for years and have been TAKING.

The bit about the lady who is rich getting "millions" is an urban legend. Besides, what price do you place on her husband's LIFE? And what does it matter how much she already had? Last I checked the US was not a fully Communist state. Most of all, did her husband have over 24 hours notice to evacuate the WTC? I think not.

mayfieldtm
09-08-2005, 06:40 PM
When I first heard of the Debit Cards, I thought someone said they will have to be paid back?

Tom M.

Ries
09-08-2005, 07:13 PM
Urban legend, ehh?

Average payment in NYC was between 2 and 3 MILLION DOLLARS EACH.
One lady got 8.6 million according to this article.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/199781p-172446c.html
Here is a dept of justice website that says of the first 25 awards made, the average was 1.3 million.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/August/02_civ_486.htm

How do you place a price on anybody's life?
And even though there was a evacuation notice, a lot of the people who did follow it, and evacuate, still lost everything. So they followed the rules, and are good doobies, but they still are less deserving than a new yorker?
I have seen case after case of people who were every bit as deserving as the families of 9/11 victims. Some of the irresponsible jerks who didnt evacuate included the 105 year old woman in a wheel chair, with no money, no car, and her ss check not coming til the end of the month. Or the 500 lb person in the hospital, on life support, or the nice auntie Peewee Minock from Meraux, who was found dead in a tree. Lots and lots of people were disabled, or in nursing homes, or 5 years old. Are their lives somehow worth less just cause somebody broadcast an evacuation notice, and they didnt have a radio or tv?

We are not a communist country, but we do have a lot of socialist elements in our system- social security, medicare, disability payments, workers comp, unemployment, mortgage interest deductions, free emergency care if you cant pay, free public schools, bankruptcy laws, etc.
Very few of us REALLY pay in more than we get back, especially if you consider all the money the government spends on roads, schools, bridges, police and fire, armies fighting to protect us, the FAA, the FCC, the FBI, and on and on and on.


[This message has been edited by Ries (edited 09-08-2005).]

HTRN
09-08-2005, 08:28 PM
That right 2-3 million.

MINUS whatever life insurance you have.

The fund STILL has money in it - there was accusations of all sorts of Hanky panky going on with it.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://thisoldshed.tripod.com)

Michael Az
09-08-2005, 09:16 PM
I'm sure they won't be buying cigs and beer, they should be running low on ammo by now. That will buy lots of ammo.
Michael

mochinist
09-08-2005, 09:23 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Michael Az:
That will buy lots of ammo.
Michael</font>

And a few decent lap dances too. woot woot

GregC
09-08-2005, 10:31 PM
Again, I saw no mention in either of those articles about a rich woman with 2 $50K cars who got millions.

My point is simple - assuming there will be a handout, why does it seem that a rich person who suffers a disaster should get less than a poor person if they suffered equally? It's a Socialist ideaolgy that says the poor person 'deserves' it more.

Where did the 9/11 payouts come from? Was it from the Government, or was it from donations?

HTRN
09-08-2005, 10:46 PM
Last I heard, FEMA canceled the card program - it's going backt to wire transfers.


HTRN

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This Old Shed (http://thisoldshed.tripod.com)

IOWOLF
09-09-2005, 06:15 AM
Let's call them A.T.F. cards then. LOL

Guys, It had to be said and funny as hell.
IMHO

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The tame Wolf !

Carl
09-09-2005, 11:35 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'd be quite pissed off if I lost everything and the government only gave me a 2k ATM card. Last year I paid over 50K in federal/state taxes. Whatever amount they give people, it should be more or less inline with what these people have been giving to the government.</font>

It was also said that they would continue to receive their food stamps and welfare checks...so you figure it out.

Ries
09-10-2005, 01:29 PM
1 million people, plus or minus, have evacuated the New Orleans area, and are currently homeless, and getting broker by the minute.
According to the feds, 4.5% of them were on welfare.
That leaves 955,000 people who arent getting paychecks, dont have anything, and are living in their cars, their inlaws, or motels.

Seems like you guys are being a little harsh on them.

Evan
09-10-2005, 01:45 PM
I sure do feel sorry for the contingent of troops that arrived home from Iraq yesterday. A number of them were from New Orleans. That must really suck.

charlie coghill
09-10-2005, 05:20 PM
I agree Evan, Your life is disrupted for the war and now you have to put your home back togeather.

JRouche
09-10-2005, 11:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ries:
According to the feds, 4.5% of them were on welfare. </font>

Again, please substantiate your "facts" with proper documentation. The number seems abit extreme. Not that I think you are a liar or a instigator I just like to be more informed.

A link to your source or article would be appreciated.

Thanks, JRouche

IOWOLF
09-11-2005, 06:39 AM
As the challenger, Isn't it up to you to prove him wrong?

Post a site to show that is not true. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

This would Impress me and others also I'll bet. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

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The tame Wolf !

Ries
09-11-2005, 05:05 PM
The 4.5% figure was from an article in the Wall Street Journal, 2 or 3 days ago, but its already in the recycling. The article said that the "normal" rate of welfare recepients in the south was 3.5%, but New Orleans proper was higher, at 4.5%.

I have been reading the WSJ a lot, as it is pretty impartial in its reporting- the editorial page is very pro-republican, but the reporting is very evenhanded. And they have been covering a lot of individuals it the flood zone, and the vast majority, while poor, were people with jobs.

JRouche
09-11-2005, 05:21 PM
Ries, thanks for the reply. JRouche

LizardKing
09-11-2005, 07:45 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">We are not a communist country, but we do have a lot of socialist elements in our system- social security, medicare, disability payments, workers comp, unemployment, mortgage interest deductions, free emergency care if you cant pay, free public schools, bankruptcy laws, etc. </font>

What?

All those things are a big part of communism.
The biggest part is how it gets paid for, HIGH PROGRESSIVE INCOME TAX.
Next biggest part is lack of individual control of property.
National parks, UN parks, property tax, etc.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the US is a 100% communist country.
Has been for a LONG time.
Before I hear protests, please study communism.

regards,
Lizard

PS - Most working people pay over 50% of thier income through the variopus taxes out there....

[This message has been edited by LizardKing (edited 09-11-2005).]

Your Old Dog
09-11-2005, 09:02 PM
As I remember it, the money the 911 familys got was not tax dollars. It was money you and I gave to fireman, Red Cross and other charitys earmarked for the victims. We gave far more than was needed, the Red Cross thought they'd give each family a few bucks and then it came to light that the American People didn't give the money to the Red Cross but rather the familys of the victims.

In other words, if via private charity we raise a couple of Billion for the victims, do we want the Red Cross to determine how much or our donations actually get to the victims? I hope the answer is no. When these tragedys happen this is one way we can demonstrate that we actually feel their pain, by donating and donating big. I don't have a problem with 911 familys getting that kind of money as long as it ain't some politician trying to look like a do-gooder and voting it thru the house.

Doug Smith
09-12-2005, 05:45 AM
Here in Houston, the news said that some of the debit cards were used to buy $800 Louis Viton purses.
I guess if you don't have anything left, you might need a bag to haul your stuff around.
I already had a fight with my extreme liberal sister-in-law about this one.
She is one of those" Why should you be able to have an $800 purse and they can't"?