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View Full Version : OT Major US mfg blow - Delphi



nheng
10-08-2005, 08:20 PM
Delphi has filed chapter 11 but not before sweetening the severence packages for its top executives:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/08/news/fortune500/delphi/index.htm?cnn=yes

It plans to come out of it mid 2007 but with downsized domestic production.

Can you say Chinese van door motors?

GM69camaro
10-08-2005, 09:02 PM
...And more American hourly workers get screwed. Delphi is negotiating with the UAW to significantly lower wages to around $10-$12/hr. I can find work mowing grass for that wage. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//mad.gif

ibewgypsie
10-08-2005, 10:30 PM
Seen a fellow instrument tech, He used to work where I did. The company paid us well, charged a pretty hefty price for us. I lived out of a suitcase till I got tired of it.

He is working at Lowes in the electrical dept.

David

psomero
10-08-2005, 11:32 PM
i just ate a piece of candy that said made in china on the back. i feel like vomiting.

i'm getting sick of this bull**** already...

DR
10-09-2005, 12:04 AM
"i just ate a piece of candy that said made in china on the back. i feel like vomiting.
i'm getting sick of this bull**** already... "

Check the majority of ads in HSM, guess where the equipment is coming from?

mochinist
10-09-2005, 12:17 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DR:
"i just ate a piece of candy that said made in china on the back. i feel like vomiting.
i'm getting sick of this bull**** already... "

Check the majority of ads in HSM, guess where the equipment is coming from?

</font>

Yeah exactly, and guess where all those cheap harbor freight tools come from too.

psomero
10-09-2005, 12:33 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DR:
"i just ate a piece of candy that said made in china on the back. i feel like vomiting.
i'm getting sick of this bull**** already... "

Check the majority of ads in HSM, guess where the equipment is coming from?

</font>

oh, i know. i own a chinese-made lathe and mill, but a friggin' piece of candy! next thing you know, conagra is going to be making slim jims and ore ida french fries in china, too.

ibewgypsie
10-09-2005, 01:04 AM
To work in the Local Con-Agra, you had better "sie habla Espanola"..

And the smell that came off some of them workers.. Kinda reminded me of the Beavis and Butthead episode where he was scratching his "nadS" and the people were getting sick off the hamburgers.

Yeah.. I could go on.. Who handles your food? it is not Farmer brown anymore.. Lemme tell you about my Hotdog-tank experiences.. where they blow steam through the tank of entrails, eyeballs, skulls, tongues and ... Okay.. Sing with me.. Ohh I wish I was a Oscar Myer wienier....

If you don't kill it, skin it, prepare it, you really don't know what they did or didn't do to it.. Stories abound about sides of pork being replacements for lost girlfriends,and the McDonalds shootings in Texas was because what they did to his food.. What is real? Clean? Not kosher either.. They just pay dues to a Rabbi to bless the production of the food. It does not ensure it meets any higher quality or standard. Look on your food for a circle with 'K or U in it, that is the Kosher seal of Approval. On everything from Orange juice to steel wool.

ibewgypsie
10-09-2005, 01:07 AM
Ohh did I mention I am paranoid about people touching my food? I cut a guy to the bone across his knuckles while working at a Sewage plant, he touched my coca cola bottle after I mentioned he had not washed his hands. I was spreading mayonaise on my sandwich and he touched it and I didn't even realize I had cut him till he was squirting on everything.

Yeah, I got fired. I hated that job anyways.

David

winchman
10-09-2005, 04:48 AM
"...but not before sweetening the severence packages for its top executives:"

Aw, gee. The CEO was only making $900 an hour, assuming he was working 60 hours a week.

Roger

Stick
10-09-2005, 05:02 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
[B]

Yeah.. I could go on.. Who handles your food? it is not Farmer brown anymore.. Lemme tell you about my Hotdog-tank experiences.. where they blow steam through the tank of entrails, eyeballs, skulls, tongues and ... Okay.. Sing with me.. Ohh I wish I was a Oscar Myer wienier....

If you don't kill it, skin it, prepare it, you really don't know what they did or didn't do to it.. B]</font>

You hit the nail on the head as usual! I worked for years with a guy that had been a supervisor for 12 years in a wiener room of a huge processing plant in a former life. He swore there was no way on earth his kids would ever eat something so disgusting.

That's one good thing about being a small farmer, we are still allowed to kill and butcher our own animals for our own home use. For off-farm private sales or even to give it to family that don't live on the farm, the animal has to be killed and inspected at a registered slaughtering facility, but then I can bring the sides or quarters home and cut it up myself. Ours lets me watch, and I let them hang it there and quarter it, but I do my own cutting, grinding and sausages. The slaughterhouse take the hide as part of the deal, and dispose of the guts, head and hooves etc so we don't have to. Kinda hard to kill and dismember an animal you spent a couple years raising too. I can do it, but wife can't stand it. For sale in a store or for restaurant use, it all has to be done in a gov't inspected facility. Chickens and turkeys, if we just want one for supper, I kill and clean it, but the ones we sell (about 300 a year) are all professionally done. Costs 2 bucks a bird, but it's worth it not to have to deal with the mess! LOL!

Your Old Dog
10-09-2005, 07:51 AM
Yea, lets hear it for Global Economy. We're sharing our wealth with the rest of the world but it's comming from the working stiffs wallet and not management's. Thank you Corporate America.

As many folks loose their loyality for our respective countries it's no surprise that corporations do the same. (yea I got chi-com sh_t, damned near impossible not to these days. Some of this stuff ain't even made here in America these days.)

IOWOLF
10-09-2005, 07:53 AM
Well the Con Agra I worked for in Council Bluffs is still union.

BTW they are haveing there Case sale on Oct. 15 it is a good deal,In the past you could buy a case of Frozen dinners for $5.00.

------------------
The tame Wolf !

winchman
10-09-2005, 09:35 AM
Ooops, sorry.

I gave old data on the CEO pay. That was for the last one who left in July '05.

The new one got a $3,000,000 signing bonus, but his base salary is $1,500,000 a year, which works out to $481 an hour for a 60-hour week. Sucker!! But then, he may be eligible for up to $2,000,000 in performance incentives.

The incentives probably include screwing over the employees, the vendors, and the shareholders. Oh, and us taxpayers, too, since we'll be picking up the tab when they dump the underfunded pension plan on the government-funded PBGC.

Roger

nheng
10-09-2005, 10:36 AM
Re: made in China candy ... check older posts here and on the PM forum for Chinese popcorn.

Brooks Pharmacies in this area had a popcorn and movie time popcorn box package and the darned popcorn bas was labeled "made in China". That's pretty darned disturbing especially when you consider our agricultural capabilities.

Our food supply should be either from USA or guarded and inspected more closely than the gold (whatever's left) at Fort Knox. Think the FDA or USDA are up to it? Think again.

Looking at the latest flyers from Enco, MSC and others, though, I see the prices on imported tools climbing quickly. End mill sets, etc. which used to be in the $29 range now seem to be in the $89 range for similar items. Good for us.

Doug Smith
10-09-2005, 11:47 AM
I bought a bunch of machine tools from a Delphi sale in another state.
When we showed up to pick up the tools, the manager told us to be careful and stay away from the union workers. After he explained the story to us, I could not believe it.
The union workers had a contract so iron clad that Delphi could not lay them off. They had idled that plant down three years prior and the workers kept showing up and collecting their paychecks. They offered to send them to job training, college courses or buy them out, but these workers choose to show up for work and play cards for eight hours a day including taking breaks. Taking a break from playing cards, you have to be ****ting me!
I am a union pipefitter. If I do my job, I keep working. If I don't, I get a trip to the unemployment office.
These people are the ones causing the American worker to have such a bad reputation. If your employees sat down on the job and did absolutely nothing for three years and still demanded their pay, would you be tempted to take your work overseas???
I am a true American and blame the unions for allowing this type of inaction to exist. It is not only bad for the company, but it is ruining angeneration of workers and potentially the next also.
Rant-over.

hoffman
10-09-2005, 03:20 PM
Exactly what does Delphi do? From what I understand they are like a sub of GM.

winchman
10-09-2005, 04:14 PM
"Delphi Corporation supplies vehicle electronics, transportation components, integrated systems, and modules worldwide. It operates through three segments: Dynamics, Propulsion, Thermal, and Interior (DPTI); Electrical, Electronics, and Safety (EES); and Automotive Holdings Group (AHG). DPTI segment’s products primarily include gasoline and diesel engine management systems that electronically optimize engine performance; sensors and actuators, which provide essential data and control for integrated vehicle systems; air/fuel management subsystems; exhaust emission systems; fuel handling systems and evaporative emissions canisters; and vehicle stability control systems. EES segment’s product offerings principally consist of a range of advanced audio systems and components, including satellite reception systems for vehicles and home use; wireless products that provide mobile connectivity, entertainment, and information; powertrain and engine control modules; sensors and actuators for advanced digital control systems; body and security systems; collision warning systems; connection systems; and switches and mechatronic devices. AHG segment’s principal primary lines include halfshafts, batteries, filters, spark plugs, generators, and compressors. The company’s products are used in various applications, including vehicles, communication, computer, consumer electronic, energy, and medical. Delphi sells its products primarily to independent aftermarket customers and consumer electronics customers, as well as to the manufacturers of medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks, and off-road equipment. The company was incorporated in 1998 and is headquartered in Troy, Michigan."

That's probably more than you wanted to know. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
Roger

Allmetal
10-10-2005, 12:58 AM
I live just outside Saginaw and have friends and relations that work for Delphi and I know it's going to affect more then just these 6800 local workers if they do shut down including myself. But I have to go along with what Doug Smith said about some of the waste the unions have caused when allowing workers this misuse of power over production. I have heard first hand stories that would make your head spin but the bottom line is the American workers have reached their high water mark when it come to wages and benefits that were once considered easy to increase at each new contract. If we plan to be able to remain in the manufacturing business this reduction in wages and benefits will just have to happen or we need to stop open trade with other countries and go back to paying the higher prices for things made here. That will mean no more two cars, boat, motor home, snowmobile, jet ski and on and on that are so common in the driveways and backyards of shop workers from some of these plants. It was good while it lasted but I can't see it ever going back up again. I had it better then my dad did involving wages and benefits but I can't see my son having it better then I did. Bob

Rich Carlstedt
10-10-2005, 01:29 AM
Doug,Read the October 17 issue of Forbes Magazine.Those guys are getting 31 bucks an hour and all their bennies are paid, including increases in wages and pensions...just plain nuts !

Doug Smith
10-10-2005, 07:25 AM
It was revolting.
They had make shift living rooms set up on the factory floor. Couches, lazy-boys and tv sets. Some even had friges.
I have never seen anything like it nor do I want to see it again.
$31 an hour for that.

Your Old Dog
10-10-2005, 08:46 AM
Hoffman, the Delphi plant in Lockport (near Buffalo) makes radiators and air conditioning units for auto makers. 4000 people are on the line at that plant. It's a crucial economic blow to Western New York. Just when some thought the onslaught of hurricanes might bring some workers back to the NorthEast this has to happen. We lost a lot of manufacturing to the South.

chiphead42
10-10-2005, 10:04 AM
Doug & others
All I know about Delphi is what I read here & recent news. These people were under contract which Co. & Union had agreed to, which Co. chose to ignore. If you sign a contract to buy a house, car, rent appt. Can you just take your money & leave them hanging when you find a better deal elsewhere?
After paying wages & benifits that some consider ridiculous, this Co. still has enough profit to pay officials & some stockholders huge sum's of money, & move to other countrys for cheap labor. The Co. that I last worked for closed our U.S. opperations w/out warning Laborday 2000, we were under union contract. They were not going broke, they did not go out of business. They moved the work to non Union opperations. Co. officials were payed millons to do this. Fed. law says if Co. closes w/o warning they pay 60 days wages & benefits. We will never get it. They have only paid small % of wages & benefits for last days worked. They have only paid part owed to Union for health/welfare. They have paid law firms billions to avoid paying workers millions. That some workers are Union is not the problem. The problem is there are not enough Union workers, and some card carriers are not willng/don't know how to be Union members. My 2 cents worth chiphead42

ERBenoit
10-10-2005, 11:36 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psomero:
i just ate a piece of candy that said made in china on the back. </font>

Recently seen the same "Made in China" on some U.S. flags. WTF? The even the U.S. flag (though not all of them) is being manufactured overseas!! Are the U.S. companies that manufacture flags making national flags for China, Korea, Tiawan etc...? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Perhaps U.S. currency (legally manufactured)will be the next big chinese import.




[This message has been edited by ERBenoit (edited 10-10-2005).]

Spin Doctor
10-10-2005, 12:13 PM
Who's to blame for this. The simple answer is WE ALL ARE. Every body wants to make a decent living but they complain about others doing well. We all want goods at low cost and bitch about crap from China. Did the UAW kill the goose that laid the golden egg? In some ways they did. But if they did GM, Ford and DC handed them the axe. At the same time did the Big Three ignore quality in manufacturing and design? Damn straight they did. But in actuallity look at this as the trial run for GM declaring bankrupacy in a couple of years. The precedent was set when the federal judge threw the contract at United (?). Look for more of the same.

nheng
10-10-2005, 12:39 PM
I did my part yesterday. Was re-wiring several old woodworking machines and decided to use the molded end and cord from a few heavy duty extension cords instead of separate cord/plug.

Hit Home Depot and was shocked to find a wall of their "Commercial Electric" crap, all made in China ... NO OTHER OPTIONS anymore. A trip to a local ACE hardware that formerly had Carol cable and other products in addition to ACE were now exclusively ACE and made in China and Indonesia.

Finally, bought 20 feet of Carol cordage and a few good quality grounded plugs, all made in USA. USA grounded plug cost about 2 times what the imports cost and about 20 times what they are worth http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

I'll keep buying US only while I can afford to and while/when the quality is still there.

dvideo
10-10-2005, 03:44 PM
Well let's consider....

'Stuff comes into the country in a container. The Container Ship ports and harbors are built with taxpayer funds - on an eminent domain backed collection of land. The container port is Taxpayer Funded. Not cheap either. One port "upgrade" is over $2B.

Containers go over US railroads - often on flatcars owned or leased by the US Army. Gets to a warehouse - where taxes for property or other such "items" aren't paid... Walmart can shop around, ya know... Containers go home empty - or with amazingly cheap collections of raw materials.

Stuff is built offshore with $0.43 an hour labor - no benefits, overtime, vacation, med coverage, etc.

Host country will finance the export of goods - ie, subsidize export and floor the 'stuff.

No lawsuits to hit the offshore mfr, no taxes (effectively), no labor problems.

Was any of this done for US Mfrs?

Delphi guys said they would like to make enough to buy the products they make. Fair enough.. but there is a catastrophic unequal footing here - between offshore and onshore.

There is absolutely COWARDLY and TREASONOUS behavior ongoing by our US Trade people. Benjamin Arnold betrayed this country and had to flee for his life. The SOBs who engineered our slow motion collapse live rich in big homes and make a lot of $$. For what? Some poor person sticks up a 7-11 and it's to the slammer for years. These guys are either (a) incompetant at best or (b) criminal looters in reality. I've seen pictures of poor people "looting" stores on CNN. Why don't we see pictures of these "looters" on the same news show?

The poor Union Guys at Delphi were and are absolutely targeted. Still are. You know it won't stop with Delphi, too. Who is next? What's left of Ford or GM moves to China when? Or Boeing... etc.....

I don't think this in the realm of a rant anymore. It's a real problem - a rot and corruption that is going to do a lot of damage. It's not just "manuf" that is imploding, either. Each day I drive past miles of empty telecom buildings - I am reminded that the collapse is in more than one industry: Medical, insurance, technology, eductation, etc.

If there was an "equal footing" - I don't think I would be as wired. But - there's not. The uneqality just starts with offshore $0.43 an hour labor and the US Taxpayer subsidized transport system that gets the goods here.

There will come a day of reckoning. Something like Black Friday, I would guess. I don't have any notion of how it will happen - I hope I am wrong... but what happens when the "tipping point" is reached?

As I said..... I wish this were a rant... but every day it just gets deeper...

--jerry

Rich Carlstedt
10-11-2005, 12:37 AM
Sorry , I got locked up in the edittting room and this was a double post

[This message has been edited by Rich Carlstedt (edited 10-10-2005).]

Rich Carlstedt
10-11-2005, 12:39 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt:
Spin Doctor said
" Did the UAW kill the goose that laid the golden egg? "

You bet, and the chickens are coming home to roost!
As said earlier, anytime a Machinist ( I'm Partial !) has to spend 4 years to learn his trade, and then another 6 or 10 to become Proficient, to make 20 to 25 bucks, and these guys in the UAW make 31 for sitting on their Can....does total up by anyones imagination.

In machine shops, we have seen tremendous competion from overseas, and the only thing saving us so far, is CNC and higher output rates. Ask yourself, do you know any job shops thet let their machinists sit around ?
And better yet, pay them exorbitant rates.
None of the companies I worked for during my life (about 14) exist anymore. Thats sorry to say. But one thing is certain, if you make profit(1) and have a market(2), you stay in business. Either of these two fail, and it's "Good Bye"
Auto workers maybe will get the message, but personally, I don't think they will, till all three go down, and only the foreign builders will be here...then they will pull out and go home, and we will import our transportation.

The answer is to use Henry Fords methods.
Read what he did..Cars were out of sight cost wise and he beat them..yeah, the workers broke their tails keeping up, but they also were by far the best paid in the US..
What we have now really is nothing more than "Welfare" and if nobody pays the taxes, that ship can't sail!</font>

Your Old Dog
10-11-2005, 07:20 AM
Why do we have to rely on millions of Americans to buy products from their own country? Why can't the government help us out. It's kind of like cocaine or pornography for many. If it's there, it does get abused, at least by many if not all. Cheap products get used my 99 percent of us even though we cut our own throats.

Free marketplace works when there are some boundaries. And as for updating our educations, we all can't work in the computer field and we all can't work in restaurants. We need to make it less attractive for companys to leave the country that made them what they are.

cuemaker
10-11-2005, 10:16 AM
Now the some experts are saying that Delphi is going to drag GM into BK also. 30% chance

Apparently as part of the spin off of Delphi, GM guarrentied the health and retirement benefits if Delphi filed BK before 2007.

I think I read that this bk filing immediatly cost GM $4 a share.

I also read that the average Delphi union workers comp and benefit package equals $65 an hour.

[This message has been edited by cuemaker (edited 10-11-2005).]

bob308
10-11-2005, 12:06 PM
it is strange the guys bitching about a .10 import nut or bolt or pice of candy. put down the people that ride harleys or dont have import cars and trucks.

matkra
10-11-2005, 10:49 PM
I have an idea, have the employees and union get together and buy out the company. Then you csn double your pay. and own the business vs. those big greedy corporate exec's Everyone would win, the union still could get there dues and everyone could make tons of money.