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gkman11
12-13-2004, 08:13 AM
I'm making a 5-C collet holder for my lathe and my beginners library doesn't have this info.

JCHannum
12-13-2004, 09:11 AM
10* http://www.cox-internet.com/drspiff/machining/collets/Collets.htm

Spin Doctor
12-13-2004, 04:05 PM
1oD as stated. This should give you just about any collet question you could have an answer

http://www.hardinge.com/usr/pdf/collet/2348.pdf

------------------
If we lie to ourselves, what lies will we willingly tell to others

sch
12-13-2004, 05:44 PM
Before you cut the inside threads for the closer nut/drawbar, nominally 1.224 x 20TPI
you might want to get your collets and
mike the thread diameters. Mine ranged
from 1.222 to 1.227 and my closer was a bit
too tight for 3-4 of the collets, had to
smear some clover compound on them and lap
to fit. Since the fit doesn't have to be
real tight, it behooves you to use the
largest diameter collet as your checking
thread. There were only four of 18 collets
above 1.225 in size but it is really hard
to pick up an inside thread once you have
taken the setup down. Steve

John Stevenson
12-13-2004, 05:49 PM
Why does everyone make such a fuss over 5C collets ?

They are totally outdated nowdays.
OK in their day they probably were the most common but that doesn't make them the best.

Time to move on.

John S.
[ donning flame proof vest ] http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Spin Doctor
12-13-2004, 06:07 PM
To what one may ask. Is the 5C perfect? No but not much else is either. Properly used they are hard to beat from what I have seen. And for the individual operating in a home shop they are about the only option other than chucks. The problem I think most people who have made adaptors for 5Cs to fit their lathes is they are adapting them to smaller machines that lack the bore capacity to properly use them and consequently have them hanging too far out from the spindle bearings. A sure recipe for disastar IMO. If one has the bore large enough for the 5C to be mounted internally that is where it should be. Besides they have the virtue of being inexpensive

J Tiers
12-13-2004, 10:59 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:
Why does everyone make such a fuss over 5C collets ?

They are totally outdated nowdays.
OK in their day they probably were the most common but that doesn't make them the best.

Time to move on.

John S.

[ donning flame proof vest ] http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>

I don't use them, use 3C instead.

But the 5C are $5 per each, can't hardly beat that with a stick.

Oh, yeah, they still work as well as they did before they became outdated.

The collets with more "squeeze" are nice, but extremely pricey, even if they have a large fit range. And, the holders aren't available for many older tapers.

Some don't have holders with a thru hole, which is a big deal-killer right there.

Thrud
12-14-2004, 03:00 AM
John Stevenson:
I totaly agree, I prefer the wide range of ER or other double angle collets. As a result I rarely use a drill chuck - always have ER-25's in my mini-mill for drilling, milling, and reaming.

Merry Christmas - ya skinny bugger! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 03:50 AM
Thrud has it with the double angle collets.
The ER are becoming very popular now, much as the 5C's were and just because something is now cheap doesn't mean it's good.

The problem with 5C's are their small range compared to say ER's, just a few thou over 40 thou - no contest.

I must have about 40 5C's kicking about in imperial and metric sized and I'm always being blindsided by a queer size.
18 ER32 collets will cover from 1/16" up to just over 3/4" with no gaps, metric or imperial included.

You also get to use these for work holding AND tool holding, something 5C's can't do.
This means you can use then in both ends of the lathe and the mill spindle.

I'm running a job at the moment, Ground rod 0.520" diameter, some to be turned to 0.425 and some to 0.443"
Would be nice to use a collet in the lathe then swop to the spin indexer.
Not a cat in hells chance without three new emergency collets that will probably be useless after.

Take a fresh look at ER's guys, time to move on.
Cost isn't everything and anyway do have a look, we are getting US made collets here very cheap now and the way pricing works here you guys should be getting them even cheaper.
J&L has them on offer here for £7.00 UKP so they should be about $7.00 in the US which is usually how it works.

20 years ago 5C ruled, no one had heard of ER's, neither had we heard of digital calipers.

John S.

Spin Doctor
12-14-2004, 06:19 AM
John for cutting tools I find I have to agree with you. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have run tooling in a 5C collet in over 30 years. And then it was simply an expidient way to do the job. Slitting saws on arbors in the lathe headstock cutting slots at an angle to the canter line is one. But the ER will never from the tooling I have seen available match the speed and ease of use the 5C has. Plus the 5C is more than just the collets we are all familiar with for the most part. The whole family of expanding, extended nose and pot chucks is were the 5C really shines

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 06:48 AM
SD,
You remarks are true but it's all grandfather rights stuff.
Lathe spindle noses were made with 5C because it was popular, not because it was the best.
5C isn't always a viable proposition on smaller lathes hence the pot chucks.

Not all lathes can get a 5C inboard but the shorter ER would be possible.

We are not seeing them used because the mounting infrastructure isn't there yet.

Something like that new Myford lathe with the big bore spindle could have had an ER40 straight up the spout, lets face it you need an adaptor to hold a centre anyway so what's wrong with having a different adaptor.

Hard fact is, as short as one year ago ER was industry based. Now look at Ebay and the smaller tooling houses catering for the home shop, ER collets and collet chucks all over the place.
How long before the Chiwanese realise that they can get extra revenue by boring their spindle noses to ER specs ?

It's going to happen.

Watch this space.........

John S.

J Tiers
12-14-2004, 08:43 AM
Whatever..........

ER holders apparently do NOT commonly have thru holes. If so, that knocks them right out of the running before they get their shoes on.

Out of curiosity, if they fit smaller machines, why do the ER sets I have bothered to look at seemingly all have SOLID taper holders at 3MT size?

BTW, Morse taper is also totally outdated....time to scrap all those old lathes! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

My question to you all is why the Jacobs Rubberflex, which seems to have pre-dated the ER AND had thru holes, large range, and high accuracy, long gone and as dead as Kelsey's nuts?

Why did THEY have thru holes and the ER setups don't?

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 10:42 AM
JT,
It's not the fault of the collet that the holders don't have a thru hole.
Most of these holders are Toolholding not work holding so it doesn't matter.
An R8 doesn't have a thru hole, there's a bloody great draw bar there.
No reason why you couldn't bore a lathe nose out to hold an ER collet and then it would be a thru hole.

You don't nesesarily need a holder to hold a collet.
5C goes into spindle noses, R8 goes into spindle noses, both have no need for a holder.

In fact I have never seen a R8 holder other than a Bridgy attachment.

You ask about the Jacobs rubberflex chucks, simple answer is price. Would you pay $1000 for a set of collets?

ER collets do have a thru hole so there is no problem with them.
The problem is people adapting to them.

If a 5C has to grip a piece under it's stated size it will but it goes barrel mouthed to do so and only grips on the outer edge.
The more undersized the worse it is so at some point it's hardy worth using a collet for accuracy if the job is waggling about in the wind.
Rather defeats the object.

The point I'm trying to make is we have the collets to get by previous limitation of the 5C, namely bulk which limits it's installation on many machines.
It is rather bulky to say it only grips on the first 1/2", and it size holding limitations.

Double angle collets because of the way they are made with opposing slits in the body close down parallel and remain parallel.

John S.

JCHannum
12-14-2004, 11:06 AM
For workholding for the average home shop, 5C collets are as good as anything else. My lathe, T&C cutter and some other odds & ends use 5C. My mill uses R8. I am satisfied with both systems, and see no need to change.

If I were running a paying shop, or just tooling up a new shop with a generous budget, I would probably go with the latest, bestest available tooling. Otherwise, I will stick with what I have, it is payed for, and serves the purpose.

Some disadvantages of the ER are overhang as mentioned and inability to work at the face of the collet as the nut is in the way. There are no expanding ER collets I am aware of, so you can't grip on the ID. There are no pot collets available, so you can't use them for large diameter, thin sections. There are no quick acting draw bars or collet chucks like the Hardinge/Sjogren available that I am aware of for production work. The lack of a through hole in most holders and provision for a collet stop also limits use for production work. To cover the range covered by 5C collets, you would need 2 or 3 sets of ER collets and holders.

It is interesting that while the 5C has been around for (how) many years, hundreds of other collet styles have come and gone. The 5C is still alive and well. There may be better, but there sure have been a lot that were not as good or versatile.

ulav8r
12-14-2004, 11:46 AM
John,

It is time for you to start producing spin indexers that use ER collets. I am granting you a full license to produce any variation you like for the small royalty of 2% on each one sold and for one operational sample of each variation.

J Tiers
12-14-2004, 01:02 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:
JT,
It's not the fault of the collet that the holders don't have a thru hole.
Most of these holders are Toolholding not work holding so it doesn't matter.
John S.</font>

Not their fault, but not an advantage either http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I basically never use collets for toolholding if I can avoid it, that's what end mill adapters are for, in my view. People say collets don't let tools creep, but I say thats a crock. Just had it happen over the weekend.

The ER SHOULD be cool, because of the wide range. For some reason that hasn't been exploited with a range of useful workholding collet adapters.

5C get by fine, because with workholding, you usually have a standard size bar, which is being converted into parts. No problem with sizing, the collets are right on the bar size.

If you have to put a roughed part into a collet, for second operations, then a wide range collet is as good as a chuck, or better. And, the lack of a thru hole may be no problem, since the work is probably cut off short.

Different tools for different jobs. Pump pliers (channel-locks, poor man's socket set) aren't outdated, they just aren't the first choice for use on bolts and nuts. Lots of other examples.

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 04:14 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ulav8r:
John,

It is time for you to start producing spin indexers that use ER collets. I am granting you a full license to produce any variation you like for the small royalty of 2% on each one sold and for one operational sample of each variation.</font>

Oh ye of little faith.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/ER%20spin%20indexer.jpg


John S.

Spin Doctor
12-14-2004, 04:22 PM
One other objection to ER's that I have as work holding collets is the addition of another layer of tooling between the work and the bearings. In addition are there any ER set-up that do not use a front closing nut. 5Cs except in a bastard set-up all operate by means of a draw bar of some sort. Plus the ER with front closing nuts introduce the possibility of the two tapered surfaces having different centerlines or the threads on the collet set-up being another problem. But that said I would love to see the ER replace the R8 collet in small knee mills in the North American market. The R8 is a system that I for one have never been happy with. I suspect that most BPs that have cutter tracks in the table have them because of the end mill creeping out of the collet

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 04:58 PM
SD,
I don't follow your reasoning on the first sentence.
"the addition of another layer of tooling between the work and the bearings."
What's the difference between one collet and another, both are the same 'layer'

I'm not talking about fittig an Er toolholder into the machine [ mill excepted ] but installing the ER collets direct into the spindle.

Next query is on the different centrelines.
I'd also like to address JT rely here about cutters creeping.

I have had cutters creep before but only in R8's I don't use 5C for toolholding.
I have never had any ER's creep that have been correctly fitted.
I run one CNC mill on INT 40 taper with ER's running a 7.5 HP motor with no problems.
Just up the road from me is an Aerospace company running about 7 brand new DHG machining centres 24/7 these are all on either 32 or 40 er's and they are removing impossible amounts of metal with these machines.
Amounts home shop guys can only dream on.

Would they adopt a system that allowed cutters to creep out and wreck very expensive alloy aerospace components? - I hardly think so.

R8's do creep under load but then again a R8 is a single split collet like a 5C and can bellmouth.

John S.

Spin Doctor
12-14-2004, 05:11 PM
John I meant the situation where you have an adaptor that takes the collet whether it be an ER or a 5C or any other type of collet out there. If the collet set-up is integral to the spindle (the Hardinge is the classic example IMO) there are no extra layers of tooling that can present problems. We had production machinery at work that was using a variation of the #40 taper and had nothing but problems. The tool holders them selves where changed to a different style and all the problems went away. As to the two tapers being out of line I was thinking if the nut is a solid part instead of a carrier for a floating closing ring. Nice job on the Spin Index by the way. Was it modified from the stock or a special spindle made to order.

ulav8r
12-14-2004, 05:15 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh ye of little faith.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I knew you were capable of doing this, I just didn't think you would have mine finished and ready to ship this quickly. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

JCHannum
12-14-2004, 05:18 PM
I think SD was referring to the collet nut, as I had mentioned. The 5C collet can permit very close machining to the workpiece with no interference, while a front retention system such as the ER collet can get in the way, or require longer workpieces, hence more scrap.

Also, installing an ER system directly on the spindle will create more problems with size and throughbore plus putting fragile threads on the spindle end. How would you use a D-1 mount for instance? A MT to ER adapter made to fit the spindle would be the better solution.

Both systems are good, and each has its shortcomings. I see no reason to scrap a proven system simply because of age. Mind you, I am speaking of workholding, not toolholding.

J Tiers
12-14-2004, 05:19 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:
Just up the road from me is an Aerospace company running about 7 brand new DHG machining centres 24/7 these are all on either 32 or 40 er's and they are removing impossible amounts of metal with these machines.
Amounts home shop guys can only dream on.

Would they adopt a system that allowed cutters to creep out and wreck very expensive alloy aerospace components? - I hardly think so.
John S.</font>

Probably they would not......

That is one issue, although I bet they have closed-end toolholders and the tools bottom. Plus they remove a lot of metal, but as I understand it they usually also spin ridiculously fast, and the chipload isn't that high per pass. So the cutter forces may or may not be comparable.

The ER also is long enough that it wouldn't allow the tilting and "walking" that is a large part of the problem. If the cutters bottom, then they won't get shoved, and pullout is all that is left.

The problem of only having easily available (and for only SOME spindles) closed-end holders is worse. For retrofit in place of 3C/5C, its a total deal-killer.

If you make a new machine, I see no particular reason why one shouldn't put the taper right in the spindle. Sounds sensible, and has a long history with S-B and Hardinge (different collets, though). And, the ER is a nicer system for a number of reasons.

Doing that REMOVES a layer of tooling, instead of adding it. (the collet closer).

And, as I understand it, the ER has a long rear taper, and short front taper. So guess who would "win" any "fight" between the centering characteristics. Obviously the long rear taper would hold the alignment.

But it isn't practical for folks who meet the masthead demographic.

We already have many such archaic things as threaded spindles, flat belt drive, single-speed low-power induction motors, HSS tooling, maybe even a "lantern" toolpost. Whats'a an old collet here or there?

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 05:20 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spin Doctor:
John I meant the situation where you have an adaptor that takes the collet whether it be an ER or a 5C or any other type of collet out there. If the collet set-up is integral to the spindle (the Hardinge is the classic example IMO) there are no extra layers of tooling that can present problems. We had production machinery at work that was using a variation of the #40 taper and had nothing but problems. The tool holders them selves where changed to a different style and all the problems went away. As to the two tapers being out of line I was thinking if the nut is a solid part instead of a carrier for a floating closing ring. Nice job on the Spin Index by the way. Was it modified from the stock or a special spindle made to order.</font>

Bingo.
That's what I'm on about, putting the ER directly into the lathe or attachment spindle.
There are a lot of lathes out there that can't handle a 5C and have to have a pot chuck. many of thee would be able to take one of the ER series and probably incorporate a closer nut to match the spindle thread.

Simple and very stiff with minimum number of collets to provide a stepless range in metric or imperial.

The 5C spin indexer was modified from the stock spindle this afternoon. It can now take ER32's or still take the 5C's
I'll use the ER's up to 3/4"+ or 20mm and then swap to 5C's if I need to go above.

Probably post words and music later.

John S.

Spin Doctor
12-14-2004, 05:32 PM
Not having my collet handbook handy I take it that the ER has a rear closing angle of 20D included and the size relationship is pretty close to 5Cs anyways. Actually on the Spin Index's the ER-32 might be a pretty good choice as the drawbar arangement on most of the cheaper ones I have seen aren't all that good to start with. In way this reminds me of the decision by Apple not to include floppy drives in their original I-Macs as Jobs thought the technology obsolete. Obsolete floppy's may be but they are still useful.

John Stevenson
12-14-2004, 05:39 PM
ER32.
8 degrees on the back, 60 on the nose, per side

John S.

Spin Doctor
12-14-2004, 05:54 PM
There are a lot of lathes out there that can't handle a 5C and have to have a pot chuck. many of thee would be able to take one of the ER series and probably incorporate a closer nut to match the spindle thread.

Simple and very stiff with minimum number of collets to provide a stepless range in metric or imperial.

John S.[/B][/QUOTE]

Well I guess we ahve to start working on the lathe manufactures about that. With the advances in hard materials turning the ability of the manufacturer to offer machines with intergral collet capacity is or should be easy. I mean they are allready fitting the spindles with Morse Tapers in the spindles. And to the issue of the through hole in the smaller new machines. For a 9 or 10 inch lathe the casting cost for a larger bearing bore headstock should absolutely minimal and the price of Timkens is not that high to start with. One thing I am looking at when I finally breakdown and buy a lathe for the home shop (retirements gonna get here eventually) is modifying the spindle to take an internal collet set-up along with the 4D hardinge style nose taper. Perhaps with an adaptor plate to carry the nut one could go both ways and take a walk on the wild side.

Thrud
12-15-2004, 03:51 AM
J Tiers:
You are sadly and totally misinformed. ER collets are avalable in every straight and taper shank available.

KPT Kaiser even has High Precision boring heads to fit on ER25, 32, and 40 toolholders. What this means is if you already have an ER-25, 32, or 40 series toolholder you can fit a High Precison boring head to it in seconds in the time it takes to change a collet. And they have the same precision as any Wolhaupter boring head of comparable size. The fact that the toolholder is not bored through is sa non-issue - this cn be worked around just as it has with every collet used in lathes.

It should nbe noted that you can work right up the the face of the ER collets as they are flush with the nut - weither it is a ball bearing or non-ball bearing nut. The face of the collet is also FLAT.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-15-2004).]

Thrud
12-15-2004, 04:04 AM
ulav8r:

Don't be a smartass - Harig and Suburban Tool/Taft Peirce have made ER-25 spin indexers for years - just because you have never seen them does not mean they don't already exist because they ARE better than 5C spin indexers.

5c collets have an inherent inaccuracy unless the collet is bored for the exact diameter used - Royal and Hardinge both know this and both recommend precision boring of emergency collets for critical work.

J Tiers
12-15-2004, 08:54 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrud:
J Tiers:
You are sadly and totally misinformed. ER collets are avalable in every straight and taper shank available.

(edited 12-15-2004).]</font>

Not so......

1) at reasonable price

2) with thru hole

conditions 1 and 2 above are not satisfied........

I can get any amount of holders, as long as I want no thru hole, and am satisfied to pay a lot of money for the privelege.

I just plain won't pay that much to get no thru hole. And I don't feel like boring one in a holder, since other things get messed up then, like drawbars to hold it in. &lt;added&gt;&lt;That's IF they even have a drawbar.....quite a few are apparently expected to hold in place by the taper only, as they have just a tang, like a drill sleeve.&gt;

If you know of one to fit 3MT, with thru hole and drawTUBE instead of drawBAR, I'm listening. Then we'll see the price.

&lt;Sorry, its a really good collet, held back by what appears to be a total lack of USEFUL tooling for usn's at the bottom of the pond.

If you are running a very up-to-date machine, and have an industrial budget, you can do far better. There is lots of stuff for various 50 taper, CAT Taper etc type machines&gt;


[This message has been edited by J Tiers (edited 12-18-2004).]

ulav8r
12-16-2004, 04:06 PM
Thrud,

I was just trying to con John into sending me a Christmas gift. No need for you to spoil it.

enray53
12-17-2004, 07:00 PM
No one seems to know that EMCO made ER chucks for their small lathes which attached to the spindle nose in the same way as a normal chuck and had thru holes. The Unimat used E16 latter ER16 larger models used ER25.
I have a number of the ER25 chucks that I have adapted for work holding on the mill, including a 12 sided one that allows me to index 2, 3, 4 , and 6 sided work. I also have an adapter that fits the 3 morse taper on my EMCO V10 that takes ER collets, just like the adapters for 3C etc type collets. With Rego-Fix quoting 0.0004 run out on standard ER and 0,0002 on the UP versions and a range of 0.040 the are great

Ray

BillH
12-17-2004, 07:11 PM
Im glad I havent bought any 5c tooling yet.

J Tiers
12-18-2004, 12:16 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by enray53:
No one seems to know that EMCO made ER chucks for their small lathes which attached to the spindle nose in the same way as a normal chuck and had thru holes. I also have an adapter that fits the 3 morse taper on my EMCO V10 that takes ER collets, just like the adapters for 3C etc type collets.

Ray</font>

I would expect that from EMCO. Your V10 likely cost considerably more than my entire shop, however. I suspect I am not alone in that.

IIRC, EMCO accessories are pretty steep as well, although since I don't have one, it is of no interest to me in general, and I have not kept up on prices.

Is the morse taper a standard closer/drawtube type deal, or is it solid with no theu hole?

I like the way the ER collets work, I just can't/don't wanna afford even the limited and technologically backward holders available for older machines.

enray53
12-18-2004, 04:36 PM
EMCO bits may be pricey,but as I have not bought any since I bought the lathe and mill 20 years ago I dont know.
As to the adapter it is morse taper outside that fits into the headstock, with a hollow drawbar just to hold it in place bored right thru so that long stock can pass thru. The front extends out enough for a thread and a standard ER nut to fit on for closing the colet. This is home made and I intend to do a larger version for my large lathe at some stage, as it would be alot lighter than the 16 inch chucks for that lathe!
Ray

John Stevenson
10-12-2005, 04:33 AM
Bit of an update.
Called in the tool suppliers yesterday and there in all it's Chinese glory was a Spin Indexer 5C AND ER32.
Virtually like mine in all respects except where I had used a loose adaptor to swap from the larger 5C down to the smaller ER taper they have ground a solid 5C collet out.

Conned one off them to have a better look and check out.
Other than the spindle nose being a tad longer and threaded it's the same as the generic ones.
Without sorting a load of stuff out I ran it over with a 0.0005" indicator and not a flicker.

Pics later, can't find my camera from last night.

Need to ring China about royalties http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif.............

Sir John.

bobbybeef
10-13-2005, 12:20 AM
this is a really good thread. The big picture really precludes having different tapers . this HSM with little bitty minimill and minilathe tries to get every thing in MT .The lathe is 3MT and 2MT the mill is 3MT and the rotary table and dividing head are 2MT. With sleeves I can get good concentricity when moving jobs between machines. for the accuracy I require this is good enough. the machines also have their limits.I think that one type of taper is the way to go.Apart from second hand prices,an important point I will grant you,what does 5C have over other systems and dividers?
Bobby.

jkilroy
10-13-2005, 09:11 AM
This is a great thread, I agree. I also agree with Mr. Stevenson about ER vs. 5C. I think one of the problems is that ER's are widely associated with use in a mill, CAT and BT tool holders, etc. I have a set of ER40 collets in with NT40 and NT50 holders, quite a money saving setup. I am going to look for a ER spin indexer

I also have a large set of TG150 collets which have a good range and even more holding power than ER40's, but alas, cost a great deal more as well. Generally the TG150's go for $20+ each new, I just cruise the Bay. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

John Stevenson
10-13-2005, 11:10 AM
Pic of the Chinese spin indexer.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/er32_5C.jpg

My old one on the right with just a plain adaptor for the 5C to ER coversion.
Nose thread is to suit a nut off my mill toolholders as I don't have a spare nut.

Chinese one on the left with longer fine thread for the ER nut.
Adaptor is hardened and cylindrical ground inside and out and held in place by the drawtube.

Other than that no visable or design differences. Ignore the difference in numbering on the index plate, mine was fitted back wrong, should be on the inside to mate up with the index holes.

Just been told today that they had also brought in the tailstocks to match so need to pick one of these up next week.
We have quite a large show going off here starting tomorrow and it runs for 6 days so most HSM tool people will be there but any shipping won't happen until after the show.

Sir John.

JCHannum
10-13-2005, 11:26 AM
So let me get this straight. They use a modified 5C collet to hold the ER collet?

Seems counterproductive to me. Probably smells like poggy fishguts to boot.

John Stevenson
10-13-2005, 11:49 AM
JC,
Why counterproductive?
This way with one adaptor this indexer can use the whole range of 5C's and the whole range of ER32's

If you don't use ER's then put the adaptor and nut safe and use it as a 5C spin indexer.
If you use ER's then fit the adaptor and forget it.
Best of both worlds.

You get two tools for very little extra outlay, if at all.

Sir John.

JCHannum
10-13-2005, 01:52 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by John Stevenson:
JC,
Why counterproductive?
Sir John.</font>

Only in that is adds another source of error when using ER. It is in effect a 5CER collet now.

Just a detail. Now about the smell...

John Stevenson
10-13-2005, 02:02 PM
Seeing as so far I haven't paid for this it smells like wine http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Sir John.