Book layout - can I bounce this off you ?

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  • John Stevenson
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2001
    • 16177

    Book layout - can I bounce this off you ?

    A while ago I had an idea for a book, engineering related, and contacted a publisher about it.
    They were lukewarm at the idea but said they would do it.

    Their offer was to up front a small production run and offer royalties on copies sold.
    The figure for the royalties was a pittance.
    OK they take a risk but I do the work.

    Second enquiry was to go it all myself. Same work and about 3K up front money for layout, printing and shipping but they get to hold the plates and it's overseas.

    Rethink on this and realise that things are rapidly changing.
    CD's, DVD's internet etc.

    Publishing a book on CD or DVD in pdf format with printable tables, drawings etc for workshop use means I can keep this all in house and sell cheaper to make the same amount of money at what is a commercial enterprise.
    Could also fit small movies onto the same disk

    Copy control also comes into it as regards getting copies ripped off and sold.
    I don't envisage a vast run all at once so modest home production means I can 'protect' the publication by encrypting a personalised watermark into the book, something like "This book is the property of Joe Bloggs " in small text, out of the way.

    If Joe Bloogs decides to give a copy to a friend then he takes the risk of it going further.
    If it doesn't I have lost nothing as his friend wouldn't have bought a copy anyway, hard but fact of life.

    Basically what I'm asking is would you buy a book in this format, [ not forced to be my book ]and if so what would you expect?

    If not, what might convince you to buy an electronic book ?

    John S
    .

    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



  • motorworks
    Senior Member
    • May 2002
    • 1427

    #2
    John
    First off,
    I was after you for YEARS to do this.
    You have a great mind and wonderful ideas and I for one would hate to see them go to the "bone yard" with you.
    (I want my 10% in US bills!)
    I did, at one time, hate reading on the computer.Printed off every thing. But time changes you and now I am ok with it.
    Your suggested way means that I can,if I have to
    "print as I need it" and I can do this several times.(Tip over a lot of coffee!)
    If you have the workings, then do it yourself.
    Sign me up for your first copy!
    Do you take paypal!
    all the best
    eddie
    please visit my webpage:
    http://motorworks88.webs.com/

    Comment

    • nheng
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2002
      • 2708

      #3
      John, How about publishing in sections and in large paperback format like Guy Lautard's bedtime books. Paperback will take a beating but they will be well read and used! Doing it in sections reduces your cost, reduces the risk and publishers may be more willing to take on that lowered risk.

      Include a CD (not available separately) for an extra $10 for those who want to print out articles or chapters. Those can have watermarks, corner marks or whatever protection you want. Just don't do what Sony did or Texas will have to sue you too

      Just my 0.02 pounds Den

      Comment

      • MarkT
        Member
        • Jun 2004
        • 63

        #4
        I would only buy a book on CD as long as I could copy it so I still have a copy after I screw up the original. I think putting the buyers name is a good idea, but I would put it big, upfront, and with his address and phone number. That way a buyer can have copies for themselves but wouldn't give them to anybody.
        MarkT

        Comment

        • gizmo2
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2002
          • 645

          #5
          Given a choice, I'd buy the paper version. I'm old. I also work at a computer all day and if it weren't for you old bodgers (and e-bay) I wouldn't even turn this bloody thing on.
          That said, UNgiven the choice, I'll take it in whatever format you can muster. Just let us know when that baby pops out.
          I'm here hoping to advancify my smartitude.

          Comment

          • torker
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2003
            • 6048

            #6
            John, I'd gladly buy anything you wrote
            Myself, I'd prefer paper for the most part.
            I guess it would depend on the info in the book. Sometimes I like to take a book into the shop for reference.
            But I'd also buy an electric book from you if that's what you decided to do.
            Russ
            I have tools I don't even know I own...

            Comment

            • PeteM
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2001
              • 593

              #7
              John,

              Another alternative is "on demand" publishing. Printers are now so automated (double side, collate, and bind) that you can print copies as they're needed. Think CNC for printing. This has a few advantages:

              1) You own the "plates"

              2) Printed books are still easier to read than anything on a screen. My experience is that folks say "sure send me a CD" but then they rarely read it.

              3) Fewer problems with having the content ripped off.

              4) There's no up front cost (unless you buy the equipment yourself) and there's no inventory to carry.

              The downside is that each copy costs a bit more to produce. Still, in modest quantities you're likely to be ahead.

              Pete

              Comment

              • Paul Alciatore
                Senior Member
                • May 2002
                • 17484

                #8
                John,

                The first electronic book I bought was Machinery's Handbook. I got the combo offer, print and CD. I have the CD loaded on both home and office computers (I can only use one at a time) and it seems to work out just fine. But that is a reference work that I consult for specific items, not a read from cover to cover. I don't know if I would like other types of books in electronic format.

                My feelings on issues like priceing and copyability would be that a CD would be a lot cheaper to make and distribute so a book in that format should be priced to reflect that. That is not to say that you should not get fair compensation. You definitely should.

                I do feel that I should be able to make back-up copies of any electronic work I purchase. And that should not be limited to only one copy. I know it's a problem protecting it from distribution by rip-off artists and I don't have the answer. Just my feeling that the legit owner should be able to make copies for his/her own use.

                Would I buy it? I'm sure I would if I can afford it. Either format, but I guess I would prefer print.

                And good luck with it, which ever way you choose.

                Paul A.


                [This message has been edited by Paul Alciatore (edited 11-23-2005).]
                Paul A.​
                s​
                Golden Triangle, SE Texas

                And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                You will find that it has discrete steps.

                Comment

                • Michael Moore
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 721

                  #9
                  John, be sure to look into the shipping costs. I'm the North American distributor for a couple of motorcycle engineering technical books that are written and printed in England (the author is the publisher) and from what I hear just sending a copy over to the next village can get quite expensive through the Royal Mail (each book is about 4 lbf in mass when packaged safely for shipping).

                  It seems that with each bulk order I placed the international freight costs would take a pretty good jump, and I was having to order about 180 books at a time for us to hit any significant weight break on the shipping to me (these books retail for US$80 and 95) which meant a pretty good amount of money was tied up. The book also needed to be ordered in 2-3K batches from the printers, and that means some pretty big stacks of 400 page large format books that have to be stored. I think the first printing saw my associate ponying up about آ£30K to the printers. But he put up all the money so he keeps a lot more.

                  He mentioned a friend of his had written a large and technically detailed computer book and he got paid about 1/40th the retail price per copy. It takes a lot of books sold to make up for a full time 9 month project, especially if the topic is one that changes rapidly and sees demand for that "old" version drop off in a year or two.

                  If it is a niche market publication, you have the problems of keeping it in the public eye. Whenever we'd get a magazine to print a review sales would spike, but that was good for only a few months. And the review was a one-shot deal for each magazine. Paying for ads in the monthly magazines has (at least for me) proven to be a good way to lose money, even if sales seemed to be good. To get a good rate you need to sign up for a 6-12 month run on the ad.

                  Another friend does his own book and offers a CD version, but the CD runs about 2/3 the price of the paper book. If ordered with the book there is some discount. But most of the CDs seem to be sold with a book, rather than separately.

                  Over here it seems like there is some sort of "quick print" shop on every other corner. Can you have small quantities of the book done up at a reasonable price? Is it a book that can be sold as a spiral-bound softcover, or will it need to be a fairly-high production quality with expensive paper, color prints, etc?

                  Marketing definitely seems to be the biggest concern that I can see. If I can get the books I sell into someone's hands so they can look at it, there is generally not a problem getting them to lust after both volumes. But even with the Internet, and my website generally being one of the first returned on Google for the subject matter, getting the word out is a big, expensive proposition.

                  cheers,
                  Michael

                  Comment

                  • vinito
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 606

                    #10
                    John, you probably feel the same as all of us in that there is something simply likable reading a printed book while, for instance, leaning back in a recliner (as well as being able to take it with you when the pressure is just too high and you need to take a pit stop in a nearby room) , or wherever. Computers aren't as convenient and that's an argument for books in print. However, what computers are good at is handling multiple formats, so I'd say Capatalize on that and you've made the CD much more desirable.

                    It's both relatively easy and inexpensive for most folks to trundle over to a local copy house with a computer file and have a book comb-bound, so maybe you could include some suggestions and sources to encourage the buyers to have this done if they so wish. My guess is Kinko's and other copy houses are compatible with printing up and binding .pdf files. If you cut a deal with a printer, you could even offer a CD/comb-bound package option to consumers at a fair price making yourself a bit of extra coin, as well as a CD only package for those who feel they don't need the paper. You have to do the layout work anyway - printing it up is the easy part IMO, so why give so large a chunk of the pie to somebody who'll simply relay your finished product to someone else (the printer) to do the rest of the work.

                    Another idea for brainstorming purposes: If you can write programs, some type of software that, for example, figures distance per angles (to compute depth of cut for threading?) or spits out other kinds of useful machining data from some initial input might be one of those other included formats I mentioned. This could also be a collaboration with a programmer you either know or will meet someday. Maybe for your next CD anyway.

                    OK. I'm done rattling on.
                    I'd like to see your book too.

                    Comment

                    • Frank Ford
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 1449

                      #11
                      I've agonized over this issue for years, and have talked to publishers about it. While I might net on the order of 7 percent of sales for a book published by one of the bigger houses, they would, at least, push it as one of their own.

                      They'd give me a big percentage of sales if I published it myself and handed them the copies to distribute, but they also made it clear that they'd give it relatively short shrift.

                      Not seing a clear path to going to press to make some serious $$, I made the decision to become famous instead of rich. It has paid off in a way, so I have no regrets simply publishing all that stuff on the Web for all to see for free. In fact, I get a surprisingly good number of donations, and have a couple of sustaining sponsors who spend a couple of grand a year to be on my site. As it is, I've actually netted more money than a number of pals who went the traditional way to publish their work. On top of that, most folks are stunned that I'm "giving it away." I answer e-mail every day about the stuff I write about.

                      In the span of just a few years, I have actually become the best known acoustic fretted instrument repairer in the world (no false modesty here - it's just what happened). Google my name or many of the subjects I've written about and I run right to the top of the page. It's not exactly bad for business, you know. . .
                      Cheers,

                      Frank Ford
                      HomeShopTech

                      Comment

                      • 3 Phase Lightbulb

                        #12

                        My advise...... Don't write a book because you want to make money from it.. Write a book because you want lots of people to read it and have access to it. I would definitely go with a publisher.

                        -Adrian

                        Comment

                        • dvideo
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 565

                          #13
                          you write.... this is very good... get good SW tools...

                          You can self publish... Tony Jeffree did this - kind of the hard way - but a good job... I think this is a great way of doing things....

                          I would not sell short shooting video at your Pad, asking questions, telling stories.... It interleaves with the video... Beats a LOT of BBC stuff, you know... You - *YOU* don't need to know all how to do it... there will be folks in video only too happy to do *something* for a piece of the *action*... ala, local colleges and such.... Let them help... there are good "High Schoolers" willing to work, too.....

                          There are also amazing folks on this site - who can help, as well.... Let them write a topic piece on something.... shoot photos... give credit in your books... it's an idea......

                          Another thing is "what problem are you solving" - is it "memoirs" or "here is how to do something"... If it the latter, then APPLY it to a topic.... ...

                          IE... a book on machining.... ok... But a book on TABLE TOP MACHINING.. Radically better....

                          A book on "controls".... OK... BUT, a book on "Robot COntrols....." - or "Machining Robot and RC Model Parts" - then DOUBLE the prices - (sell it for 20#) and increase the book run rate....

                          You can sell ROBOT Book anything over here in the US and do it well... Basic machining? - the market is limited...

                          How do I know.....

                          Well "science says".... go do the research... Lots of Amazon topics, and relative sales numbers... EG: search "Models" or Machining" and see the comparative sales numbers.... then look at the ROBOT books... may be same tools being used, but how many books sell - and for how much?

                          DVDs.... CDs.... I think it you go to some effort, then you should film, edit, and sell a separate DVD. You can offer via iPOD, if you feel modern - or sell in a number of channels...

                          There are too FEW HSMs.... but LOTS of RC Modeler folks.... if you see what I mean...

                          *************

                          This is where a cranky response should come in.... :>

                          -- seriously - things are DIFFERENT than you might think and this stuff is CHANGING VERY, VERY fast... Direct distribution works...... to a lot of folks...

                          HSM might have 10,000s of subscribers.. but how many here? It's why you can go for different auidences....

                          just my two cents worth....

                          --jerry
                          dvideo

                          Comment

                          • Norman Atkinson

                            #14
                            John,
                            As one of the ancients, may I profer a comment or two?
                            Initially, I have a set of very good engineering books which have been carefully written and are enjoyed immensely. Readers will note that I quote instances from them.
                            Not in any order are
                            Geo Thomas, Ian Bradley, Tubal Cain( Tom Walshaw), Jack Radford, Martin Cleeve( K C Hart),Dennis Chaddock. If you were to run a check for a common connection, you would come up with Tee Publishing. If you were to run another, you would come up with the chilling note that "They are all dead".
                            I ran an ethereal check on composers of music and almost all are dead. Few acheived fame in their lifetime. I ran a check of great artists and the same result showed up.
                            Summating all the foregoing, only a minute percentage are alive- the rest are Dead!

                            By now, you might have an answer!

                            Mine is that I would hate to read your book- for the reasons already given!

                            Norman

                            Comment

                            • bobbybeef
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 276

                              #15
                              John,
                              Getting the material together ,correcting the script,making a beautiful layout,putting an ISBN on it setting the illustrations with captions is the easy bit.
                              Publishing is difficult. But it is not impossible. Suggest you try for a fat grant from various sources.Education,arts councils,industry firms(they will want advertising and possible offer some input from blocks for illustrations) and the good old Tony Blair incorporated.
                              Having set all these things going it is a fair bet that you will not be lucky,but who knows.
                              I think there is a good lesson in what Frank Hoose has done with minilathe.com and his premium content. I have no idea if he has bought a new Jag lately but at least he keeps ownership of his product and makes a return to fund his website. The information certainly gets to the people who really need it. That may well be all the satisfaction he wants but it is worth looking at.
                              Best of British,
                              Bobby.
                              boef

                              Comment

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