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View Full Version : I made 24 bungs tonight for my Rod Ends (pictures)



3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 12:14 AM
I made 24 bungs tonight for my rod ends. I just have a pilot hole in them right now (around 1/4"). I still need to step drill them up to 29/64ths then tap them for 1/2-20 (LH and RH):

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/bung3.jpg

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/bung2.jpg

Here is a bung pressed into my pipe. They fit tightly because the pipe has a welded seam as you can see in this picture but that's good because they will get press fit and I'll weld them in, then finish drilling and tapping them:

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/bung1.jpg

-Adrian

Evan
11-30-2005, 12:36 AM
Looks good Adrian. Wouldn't a CNC lathe have been nice? Are you putting flats on them?

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 12:47 AM
Yea that's a good idea. I should mill 3/4" hex heads on them.

-Adrian

Evan
11-30-2005, 01:34 AM
All you need is a flat on opposite sides. That's what they normally put on them.

Your Old Dog
11-30-2005, 06:10 AM
Do those get tapped before or after they are welded in place? Just curious as I'm wondering if the welding process will change the tap-ability of the bungs?

If you tap the bungs on the lathe (embarrassing rookiew type question coming at you!) will you do that under power/low speed or by hand using the lathe as aa alignment jig only?

And lastly, I don't know what you do all day for work but this project has to be a great diversion from it for you http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

winchman
11-30-2005, 07:13 AM
Tell me your hand is just out of view at the top of the second picture.

I'm glad to see you're doing it the right way. Welding on nuts would have been "just nuts".

Roger

topct
11-30-2005, 08:06 AM
Uh oh, chuck key left in chuck photo.

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 10:05 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Your Old Dog:
Do those get tapped before or after they are welded in place? Just curious as I'm wondering if the welding process will change the tap-ability of the bungs?

If you tap the bungs on the lathe (embarrassing rookiew type question coming at you!) will you do that under power/low speed or by hand using the lathe as aa alignment jig only?</font>

I'm going to weld them in the tubes as they are right now (I might put some flat sides on the exposed end so I can use a wrench to easily tighten the jam nuts).

Once they are welded into my tubes, I'll chuck up each tube in my lathe and do the final step drilling(s) to 29/64" then manual TAP them while still chucked up (alignment jig only).


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Your Old Dog:
And lastly, I don't know what you do all day for work but this project has to be a great diversion from it for you http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>

It's the other way around actually. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Adrian

P.S. The first thing I do before I turn on my lathe, or my milling machine is locate the chuck key/spindle wrench. I also turn the chuck with my hand, and on my mill I turn the spindle just to make sure the low/high dog gears are engaged before turning on the power.

Evan
11-30-2005, 10:11 AM
If you don't already have some then buy a couple of spiral point taps. They are designed for tapping thru holes under power. I have a bunch and they really work well. They are not designed for blind holes as they push the chips out ahead of them. Don't confuse with spiral flute taps, they are for blind holes.

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 10:15 AM
I had a hard enough time finding 1/2-20 LH taps http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 10:31 AM
One problem I had... When I drilled the pilot holes, the bit was wandering all over the place. I believe I'm using 135 deg split point bits. I could use a center drill to start each hole but I'm wondering if there is a better drill bit configuration that I should be using for this.

-Adrian

madman
11-30-2005, 10:32 AM
topct i always leave chuck key in chuck so i dont lose the damn thing.

Evan
11-30-2005, 11:03 AM
Adrian,

Use 118 degree bits. They wander less.

ug
11-30-2005, 12:30 PM
Out of curiousity, and being new, what are these being used for?

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 12:39 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ug:
Out of curiousity, and being new, what are these being used for?</font>

I'm using them to make custom links for my Buggy's custom 5-link rear suspension system. Each link has two bungs installed and I'll thread in Heim joints with jam nuts. I've made mock-up links that will be replaced with the real links that I'll make with these bungs.

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/5link2.jpg

-Adrian

torker
11-30-2005, 12:48 PM
Adrian...Glad to see you doing it right!
Did you say you didn't center drill these before drilling them?

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 01:01 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by torker:
Adrian...Glad to see you doing it right!
Did you say you didn't center drill these before drilling them?</font>


Nope, I think I should have center drilled before drilling the pilot holes. Those holes right now are a little smaller than 1/4".. I need to step drill up to 29/64" before I can tap them.

I think I'll mill the holes straight on my bridgeport before I final drill them because the bit wandered all over the place.

-Adrian

Carl
11-30-2005, 02:50 PM
Adrian, those "ears" you're using on the frame to mount the inner end of the links look pretty light for the use they will probably receive. A triangular gusset on each side might help. Better yet would be using square tubing tying the inner ends of the links from opposite sides together. You would need to grind enough swing clearance into the square tubing to allow the links their intended range of motion. This is just an observation from someone who usually over-builds stuff and not from experience. If the set up you have in the picture has proven itself elsewhere then...never mind http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 03:03 PM
Those "ears" are 3/16" plate and are complete overkill http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

The "ears" are just tack welded on right now (actually everything on the frame is just tack welded).

Once I'm done designing and fabracating everything on the frame, I'm going to completely strip it, sand blast it, weld up all of the joints, re-straighten/re-align the frame after welding (if neccessary), then paint the entire frame Bannana yellow and re-assemble. I think I'll paint my links, CV shafts, front A-Arms, and other suspension components blue. Everything else will be black.


-Adrian

charlie coghill
11-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Adrain FWIW by drilling the small hole in the bung than welding it in the pipe than comming back and drilling to tap drill you are going to find that that little is going to be walking all over the place, if you are going to be doing the tap drilling in the lathe.

spkrman15
11-30-2005, 08:41 PM
Hey Adrian,

I buy cheap, but whenever i weld something it is ALWAYS difficult to drill and tap it afterwards.

Anything that is taped and welded, i take my tap and chase the threads.

I have noticed, that there is a big difference with tack welding and final welding a part. If it has threads them always seem to need attention after welding...

Just my experience

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 08:45 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by charlie coghill:
Adrain FWIW by drilling the small hole in the bung than welding it in the pipe than comming back and drilling to tap drill you are going to find that that little is going to be walking all over the place, if you are going to be doing the tap drilling in the lathe.</font>

I'm not sure I follow you. The small hole is around 1/4. Before I tap the hole, I'm going to drill 3/8th, then drill the final 29/64th in the lathe, then remove the drill bit and install the tap and manually tap the hole. I didn't really need to drill the 1/4 hole but I did anyway.

-Adrian

wierdscience
11-30-2005, 09:55 PM
Looking good so far,me I would use a stub length or screw machine drill,they are shorter and therfore more rigid making them center easily.

Personally I would have just made up the slugs blank with no hole,welded them in and then did the drilling.With a sharp screw machine bit you could drill that hole in a single step no sweat,but to each his own.

So...how long did those take?Did the frog music make it go any faster? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
11-30-2005, 10:03 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
Looking good so far,me I would use a stub length or screw machine drill,they are shorter and therfore more rigid making them center easily.

Personally I would have just made up the slugs blank with no hole,welded them in and then did the drilling.With a sharp screw machine bit you could drill that hole in a single step no sweat,but to each his own.

So...how long did those take?Did the frog music make it go any faster? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif</font>

I spent almost 2 hours making them. It went a lot faster that I originally expected. I'll order some screw machine bits.

-Adrian

mike.a.henry
12-01-2005, 09:44 AM
Cool, glad you decided to do it this way. I assume since you posted you're immune to kibitzing...my comments are entirely supportive.
I've used an end mill in the tailstock to correct off center holes. Looks in the photos like you cut these off in a saw, maybe that’s why the bit walked a little. Anyway you should face them where the jam nut contacts, if you want them "purty" 45 (or some other convenient angle) the edge down close to the diameter of the contact area of the jam nut, I'd also thread them then, the people I buy tooling from put me on to some 1/2" taps from Vegataps, the "bees knees" man, they really cut and very reduced load on the machine. I think they must be the "spiral point" mentioned earlier but they aren't hand taps, I use them in the tailstock under power. Not sure about LH either but you'd think they would be available. Still, any new tap will get through the few you are doing just fine, and it looks like MS so especially no problem. I complete all machining and then weld, then chase. But I used fixtures to make sure the inserts were in line and each tube was the exact same length. I'd probably consider threading after welding but I haven't done it that way, you might sneak up on it and try one first just to see how it goes. For sure the threads would be in line and concentric with the tube!
I also cut some flats, there are plenty without but it's nicer to have them. Just a pair, you don't usually see or need a hex. Hopefully you have enough shoulder to cut the flats wide enough so a wrench will fit with the jam nut run up. Or, if you really don't want to machine flats you can always use a strap wrench.
Another note, I'm sure you realize this but I see it all the time, on assy and followup inspections make sure the rod ends are clocked so they allow maximum rotation of the tube. Bad news if they bind.

Can you believe how much work it is to make something like this? I threw out my first frame, twisted all to heck when I welded it too fast. 2nd one was much better. Clamp that dude down and don't weld in one area very long, weld at alternate ends and take lots of breaks!
Wish you were close to CO I'd like to have a close-up look.

Mike

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-01-2005, 11:52 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mike.a.henry:
Cool, glad you decided to do it this way. I assume since you posted you're immune to kibitzing...my comments are entirely supportive.
I've used an end mill in the tailstock to correct off center holes. Looks in the photos like you cut these off in a saw, maybe that’s why the bit walked a little. Anyway you should face them where the jam nut contacts, if you want them "purty" 45 (or some other convenient angle) the edge down close to the diameter of the contact area of the jam nut, I'd also thread them then, the people I buy tooling from put me on to some 1/2" taps from Vegataps, the "bees knees" man, they really cut and very reduced load on the machine. I think they must be the "spiral point" mentioned earlier but they aren't hand taps, I use them in the tailstock under power. Not sure about LH either but you'd think they would be available. Still, any new tap will get through the few you are doing just fine, and it looks like MS so especially no problem. I complete all machining and then weld, then chase. But I used fixtures to make sure the inserts were in line and each tube was the exact same length. I'd probably consider threading after welding but I haven't done it that way, you might sneak up on it and try one first just to see how it goes. For sure the threads would be in line and concentric with the tube!
I also cut some flats, there are plenty without but it's nicer to have them. Just a pair, you don't usually see or need a hex. Hopefully you have enough shoulder to cut the flats wide enough so a wrench will fit with the jam nut run up. Or, if you really don't want to machine flats you can always use a strap wrench.
Another note, I'm sure you realize this but I see it all the time, on assy and followup inspections make sure the rod ends are clocked so they allow maximum rotation of the tube. Bad news if they bind.

Can you believe how much work it is to make something like this? I threw out my first frame, twisted all to heck when I welded it too fast. 2nd one was much better. Clamp that dude down and don't weld in one area very long, weld at alternate ends and take lots of breaks!
Wish you were close to CO I'd like to have a close-up look.

Mike

</font>


Yup, I cut the bungs to size on a 4x6 bandsaw and I did not face them before drilling the pilot holes. Thanks for pointing that out! I think that's why the bits wandered all over the place. As soon as the drill bit touched, it started wobbling http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

I'm going to drop all of the bungs into my milling vise and mill all of the faces before re-drilling. This will also make them all identical in length when installed in the pipe too.

-Adrian

JPR
12-01-2005, 12:43 PM
now that your nearly done, I found some homemade tubing clamps that might help with this type of project.

http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Clamp/tubeclamp06.jpg
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Clamp/tubing_clamp.htm

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-01-2005, 12:54 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JPR:
now that your nearly done, I found some homemade tubing clamps that might help with this type of project.

http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Clamp/tubeclamp06.jpg
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Clamp/tubing_clamp.htm</font>


I should have made a tube clamp for notching tube at all of the different angles I used. I notched my tubes on my bridgeport by holding them in a vise inline with an angle finder. If I want to re-build my buggy, or duplicate it, I'll have to re-measure all of the angles. If I made a simple jig for each angle, I could have saved all of the jigs.. Next time http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Adrian

JPR
12-01-2005, 02:03 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 3 Phase Lightbulb:

I should have made a tube clamp for notching tube at all of the different angles I used. I notched my tubes on my bridgeport by holding them in a vise inline with an angle finder. If I want to re-build my buggy, or duplicate it, I'll have to re-measure all of the angles. If I made a simple jig for each angle, I could have saved all of the jigs.. Next time http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

-Adrian

</font>

Did you look at this jig? I am thinking of making something like this that could be used with either the drill press or the mill. http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Notcher/notcher03.JPG
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Tube%20Notcher/Tubing%20Notcher.htm

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-01-2005, 02:24 PM
I have one of those jigs. I used it to build my PsychoKart (http://www.psychokart.com) but those bi-metal hole saws are noisey as hell and I went through a few cans of WD-40 getting through a dozzen or so cuts..

For my buggy project, I used my bridgeport for notching all of the tubing. It's fast, quiet, and very accurate when using my DRO. If I had a JIG to hold pipe that would be even better but the vise with angle block/parallel(s) for angled notches worked fine:

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/shocks1.jpg

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/shocks2.jpg

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/notch1.jpg

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/frame7.jpg

http://www.bbssystem.com/buggy/frame8.jpg

-Adrian

spkrman15
12-01-2005, 04:12 PM
Hey Adrian,

What i meant is whenever i weld a part that has threads into a tube, braket or another part, the threads seem to change. Many a time the bolt i needed to thread in would not. I guess it is due to the warping effect welding has on the 2 components.

It would be a pain for you to have done all that work just to find out that the bungs are warped and will not thread properly.

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-01-2005, 04:24 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by spkrman15:
Hey Adrian,

What i meant is whenever i weld a part that has threads into a tube, braket or another part, the threads seem to change. Many a time the bolt i needed to thread in would not. I guess it is due to the warping effect welding has on the 2 components.

It would be a pain for you to have done all that work just to find out that the bungs are warped and will not thread properly.

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif</font>

Yup, especially if you're welding one side of a plate and not the other side.

My bungs are mild steel and will be welded into the tubes, then drilled and taped afterwards. The bungs are so soft, I'd almost rather they get a little harder anyway.

-Adrian

charlie coghill
12-01-2005, 07:00 PM
Adrain what I was getting at is that you have a 1/4 hole drilled in the bung now. When the bung is welded into the pipe and the pipe is chucked up in the lathe the 1/4 hole will not be in the center, unless you use a four jaw chuck and dial the hole in. Unless the hole is on the center line of the lathe the next size drill will want to follow the 1/4 hole and the drill will wobble.

As has been stated the bung should have been welded in first than the 1/4 inch hole drilled.

I hopfully I am a little more clear now.

3 Phase Lightbulb
12-01-2005, 07:37 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by charlie coghill:
Adrain what I was getting at is that you have a 1/4 hole drilled in the bung now. When the bung is welded into the pipe and the pipe is chucked up in the lathe the 1/4 hole will not be in the center, unless you use a four jaw chuck and dial the hole in. Unless the hole is on the center line of the lathe the next size drill will want to follow the 1/4 hole and the drill will wobble.

As has been stated the bung should have been welded in first than the 1/4 inch hole drilled.

I hopfully I am a little more clear now.</font>


Yup, that's why I said I was probably going to mill the holes straight in my bridgeport before welding them in.

-Adrian

ronsmith100
12-01-2005, 08:04 PM
What is a bung?

winchman
12-02-2005, 05:47 AM
A bung is a plug that fits in a hole, like a "barrel bung" that goes in the opening in the lid of an oil barrel. Or, it might be wooden as used in a wine barrel.

Roger

BobWarfield
12-02-2005, 11:13 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by madman:
topct i always leave chuck key in chuck so i dont lose the damn thing.</font>

I've bought a bunch of cheap "arrow shaped" welding magnets. I leave one stuck to each tool and the chuck key goes there. Very convenient, the key is always ready to hand, no lanyards to get in the way, try it, you'll like it.

In fact, there's a chap who does all sorts of helpful things in the shop with magnets. I think his site is www.frets.com. (http://www.frets.com.)

Best,

BW

Michael Moore
12-02-2005, 03:11 PM
Thanks for the frets.com link. He's got some nifty stuff there.

cheers,
Michael