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darryl
11-30-2005, 01:43 AM
Well, it seems like the computer problems I was having a while back were due to the AVG anti-virus program. The computer was starting to crash while downloading email. Previously it would crash while trying to instal a program, or move certain files around between folders. The monitor would go into power save mode, and I lost all control via mouse or keyboard. Disabling the email scanning part of the program wouldn't take, and it would just continue to 'interfere' with the email. I did a restart to see if that would make the difference, but no. After more than two hours of trying to complete the download of a few emails, without a crash, I finally had to uninstal AVG, since it seemed there was no way to even temporarily disable it. Now the computer is working like it used to, but of course without virus protection.

It seems like maybe AVG got fat, like windoze registry does, and started to cause problems the same sort of way. Hmm.

Anybody else have problems with NFG- I mean AVG?

Evan
11-30-2005, 02:40 AM
I haven't seen any problems with AVG to date except that their server is really busy lately due to a new virus making the rounds. If you get an e-mail from the FBI or CIA don't open the attachment. As you might guess, the FBI and CIA don't e-mail people to tell them they have been breaking the law. Duh.

You can easily disable AVG when it is installed. Hit ctrl-alt-delete to bring up the task manager and click the Processes tab. Highlight and kill the processes that are named AVGxxxxx. That will turn it off until the next reboot.

Ghop Shop
11-30-2005, 02:44 AM
I have the free version of AVG on three computers and have had no problem.

GHop Shop

Timleech
11-30-2005, 04:34 AM
I use AVG free edition, I had do disable the email scanner as I couldn't get legitimate emails through, never found out why. Apart from that, no troubles. I use Mailwasher to delete unwanted emails before they are downloaded.

Tim

WLW-19958
11-30-2005, 09:08 AM
Hi There,

I too have the "Free" version of Grisoft AVG and it works well for me. A while back, I found that AVG and Nortom Utilities would "fight" over email scannning and hang indefinitely and I couldn't get any emails.

If you bring AVG Control Center and click on the email scanner, there is a "button" labeled "Disable Plugins." If you click this, you will disable the email scanner in AVG and then Norton will do the email scanning. The down end is that AVG will consider itself "not fully functional" and will occasionally let you know this fact.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

PTSideshow
11-30-2005, 09:20 AM
Anti virus/ spy ware. I started having a pop up come up in the start tray but coudn't find out were it came from everytime I started the computer. It didn't say anything exectp that are you sure you don't want it installed. Well after running Microsoft new spyware beta ver. we found out it was something AOL loaded when the Instant Message loaded the buddy list. pain in the seat cushion.

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Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

J Tiers
11-30-2005, 09:25 AM
Better than crippling AVG is to get rid of the McaFEE or Norton /Symantec POS and let AVG run without having turf fights.

AVG is the ONLY antivirus I have found that is totally not a problem.

Norton/Symantec at work randomly decides that a file which has not been accessed for months, and has been scanned several dozen to hundreds of times now has a virus, and deletes it. I notice it never can "remove" the virus, it ALWAYS deletes the file.

I do not believe the assertion that there suddenly is a virus in there..... I know its "possible", same like its "possible" that the computer will leap off the table by itself.......

ulav8r
11-30-2005, 10:08 AM
Have used AVG for about 2 months. After first loading it I could not get email. Called my ISP, they said AVG would check all available emails before downloading. If any were suspect, it would not load any of them. Disabled email check and everything worked OK for a while. Then I could not get it to update. Deleted and re-installed, now it will update. It is OK as far as I can tell and less of a pain than McAfee.

Leigh
11-30-2005, 10:23 AM
I've recently installed AVG on two machines running Win98SE, and have had no problems so far. I installed but disabled the email scanning, and AVG doesn't complain. Click on the email scanner component, then click the Disable Plug-in button. Go to the General tab and click the box "Ignore fault condition of plug-in". I don't need the email scanner since my ISP subscribes to a scanning service.

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Leigh

J Tiers
11-30-2005, 01:01 PM
Ought to mention that my AVG email scanner works exceptionally well.... I have not turned it off... It simply works, a ittle window pops up in the corner to tell me it is at work, it finishes, closes window, all is well..

And, I am still using OE for email, although the Mozilla web browser is in use.

darryl
11-30-2005, 09:34 PM
Well, glad to hear that nobody else is having problems with it. I will re-instal it and see what happens. Thanks.

mochinist
11-30-2005, 09:40 PM
I used to use avg on my old machine and had no problems with it, but on my new machine I installed Avast virus scan free addition, and I am really happy with it so far.
http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

vaderman
12-01-2005, 12:30 AM
If you value your computer and files I can only attest from experience that it pays to have a good antivirus program. Not freebies. With the wild range of scumware, virus, popup's, trojans and worms you can not be without it. It used to be that you had to open a file from email to get hit, not so anymore. The new range of worms in the last couple of weeks are all self-excuteable (meaning they load themselves). I have seen the "bugs" take out a video card, hard drive and even the motherboard. Okay enough doom and gloom; here are some good programs:

These are free: CWShredder is a good small program that will help eliminate the "Cool Web" search pop up. Spybot is another freeware program that is excellent and has regular updates; HJT (Hijack this) This is a good diagnostic program. It will help you identify changes that may have occurred in the registry due to a virus and give you a chance to fix. Adaware is one more free defense tool. I use all of these daily. My virus program is symantec gold which I buy on a yearly basis.
Another thing to do is to use a good firewall, some of these are built into routers or can be actual software.
I have never seen antivirus (on its' own) take down a machine but I have had conflicts when I used some of the early Norton systemworks. Also one should regularly take out the garbage which means deleting old files, temporary internet files and the like.

Hope this is useful.

darryl
12-01-2005, 02:42 AM
Well, I guess I'm going to need more help than I thought. I lost a few files tonite while trying to put them in a folder to send to the burner. I downloaded the latest avg program (which went fine this time with the old version uninstalled) but then I couldn't even start the installation program. Poof, out goes the monitor, and the only time it didn't go out, the computer was frozen. I can run any program that's installed, but I can't instal one at all now. I must have rebooted at least 20 times tonight while attempting to consolidate my stuff in prep for a re-instal of windose.

I opened the case and blew the dust out, checked for loose harnesses, etc. Fans are running, nothing mechanical is amiss. I've been meaning to instal another memory card that I have on hand, and I did that (computer down, of course, and static protection in use), but the computer wouldn't even boot up after that. Take the new card out, and it boots. Strange. I have one unused slot to put it in, and it fits and is the right type of memory, but somehow there's a problem- it could be with the slot itself. I did have to bypass that slot when I put the third memory card in some time ago, so I have slot 1,2, and 4 filled. That's only 128 megs total, so I shouldn't be having a problem adding another 64 meg.

Anyway, a friend is going to give this box an overhaul and maybe she will be able to tell me what's causing all these problems. She wants to wire my hdd into her computer and scan it, so maybe that will show up the evil villains. Then it'll get a re-instal of windows. It's about due, been about a year and a half now, which is about as long as it ever runs before it can't cough up that electronic hairball anymore.

Still runs solitaire really well, though. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Evan
12-01-2005, 02:52 AM
"I have seen the "bugs" take out a video card, hard drive and even the motherboard"

Waitaminute. Stop spreading FUD. That is highly unlikely. Although it is theoretically possible to "take out the motherboard" on some computers I haven't seen a virus designed to do that since the Chernoyble virus and that was years ago. As far as damaging the video card or hard drive there isn't any way feasible for a virus to do that. Even the Chernoyble virus can't affect most current motherboards and even then it only happened under very specific circumstances. The motherboard wan't really damaged, only the flash ram was overwritten.

Current viruses don't attempt to disable your computer, that isn't what they want. They want to take over your machine and still have it running so it can be used to relay spam, child porn or be used to launch denial of service attacks on other web sites.

I'm not a fan of antivirus software in general since it doesn't matter what type you use it isn't going to protect your machine against all possible attacks. The faulty security design of Windows is the real problem. There isn't any such thing as a 100% secure computer unless it isn't connected to anything but Windows is so far from the desired state it isn't funny.

Free antivirus software like AVG is just as good as Norton and others except that it doesn't slow your computer down by 20% like Norton does since it doesn't check every file every time it is touched for any reason. That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to do unless you consider that it is a USA made product and is subject to USA liability law.

Symantec has to be able to stand in front of the court and say "Yes, your honor, we did everything in our power to prevent the sad events that befell the plaintiff". Meaning that NAV checks a file every time it is dealt with in any way regardless of whether it actually makes sense to do so. This incurs a BIG performance hit.

AVG on the other hand only checks a file when it really needs to, like when it first is downloaded to your machine. It makes the assumption that it is clean after that. It is also a European product and they don't have to worry about ridiculous frivolous lawsuits under US tort law.

As for firewalls few routers have a real firewall built into them. They rely on NAT (Network Address Translation) to masquerade the IP address of the machines behind the router. This is as good as a firewall for certain aspects but does not include "stateful inspection" of traffic.

XP has a built in firewall and the version in SP2 includes stateful inspection of traffic. You don't need a third party firewall. Also, a firewall has nothing to do with stopping viruses. It is there to stop direct port attacks like the code red worm. These do not arrive via e-mail or by visiting web sites and rely on security holes in Windows services that use the internet in some way. Firewalls DO NOT stop viruses and anti virus software DOES NOT stop direct port attacks.


As for my own systems I don't use antivirus software on my client machines. All my traffic comes through my gateway machine and my web server which is in the internet DMZ of my network. It is secured via the use of appropriate software and proper configuration. My mail server checks all incoming e-mail for viruses by shelling out to DOS and running a DOS version of F-PROT which does the checking. There isn't a virus out there that can stop this check at that level. You can't even ping my servers and they have no known vulnerabilities.

Even on my machine at home which must use dialup access I use an undocumented "feature" of XP to dial in to my gateway machine at my office and connect via a network bridge to my DSL connection.

Bottom line is that although a virus or other malware isn't going to actually physically damage your machine it can cause a lot of problems. There is no 100% solution but there are things that you can do.

Evan
12-01-2005, 02:58 AM
Darryl,

Sounds like you have a hardware problem. There is an Intel chipset for motherboards from a few years ago that has a bug in the hardware of the memory controller. It shows up when more than two sticks of ram are put in the machine. It affects machines with 3 or four slots for ram and shows up when slot 3 is filled. I don't recall which Intel chipset it is exactly, I would have to look it up. Do you know what motherboard is in your machine?

darryl
12-01-2005, 03:23 AM
Evan, this is a PII based on the Intel 82440LX chipset, reading directly from the manual. There's a few more numbers and letters describing the features- the only reference to the motherboard itself is Model Code No. 35880002/03. My friend flashed the bios the last time I needed a re-instal, and the maker of the motherboard came up then, but darned if I can find that info now. I think it showed the m/board to be of german make, if I'm not mistaken. Bought in '97.

I can read off more from the manual if that would help.

Evan
12-01-2005, 11:38 AM
That isn't the chipset with the memory bug. The 440LX however does not officially support 100 mhz cpus and ram although they usually do work.

I suggest you run a ram test using memtest86.

http://memtest86.com/

Test one module at a time in the first slot. Let it run for at least three passes on each module. If they all pass then load them all in and run it again. If they don't pass then you likely have a motherboard problem. Time for a new 'puter. You should get one anyway.

Leigh
12-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Evan, you might consider the possibility that the MB actually uses a different chipset than the one mentioned in the manual, either due to an oversight, or mismatched documentation, or??? Since his symptoms match those of the hardware bug so closely, this would be a real possibility.

And it is possible to damage a video card by switching it to an unsupported scan rate. I've never heard of a virus doing that, and I don't know why one would, but it could.

I have no experience with WinXP, and never will. All of my newer machines run Linux. The machines that I use for web surfing run Win98SE. AVG seems to be working fine, and I run the ZoneAlarm firewall, which is excellent. I would recommend the combination.

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Leigh

Evan
12-01-2005, 12:39 PM
The chipset in question with the ram problem is much later than the one Darryl has so that isn't likely the problem. As for switching the scan rate of the video card while that is technically possible it isn't feasible since the register settings are different for every video card on the market. Even than it will likely just cause the monitor to go blank and display a warning about an unsupported scan rate. At that point the user will probably reset the machine.

Leigh
12-01-2005, 01:15 PM
Hi Evan,

OK. I didn't have any information on the vintages. Odd that the symptoms would be identical.

Dynamic RAM can have pattern and cross-talk sensitivities that are very difficult to isolate and diagnose, but which are usually repeatable. So you can have a situation where a particular program always crashes, while others work fine. When it occurs, it's usually traceable to a PC board layout problem. And it can be very configuration dependent.

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Leigh

Evan
12-01-2005, 01:23 PM
I looked it up. The problem was with the I820 chipset with RDRAM. Intel had to recall over one million motherboards for that bug in 2000. They even started selling the boards with a non-removable plastic stopper in slot three so you couldn't stuff ram in it.

Leigh
12-01-2005, 09:12 PM
"They even started selling the boards with a non-removable plastic stopper in slot three so you couldn't stuff ram in it."

Hmmm... If you can't fix it, feature it http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

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Leigh

darryl
12-01-2005, 09:18 PM
Maybe it is time for a new 'puter. I think I'll weigh that based on the results of my friend's efforts with it. She takes care of a 200 computer network, so I'm sure it will get a thorough going over. I think she's planning to wire the hard drive into her computer to run some checks on it. I'll probably learn something more about computers again this time.

I'm sure starting to have a funny feeling about the power supply, though. I wonder if any high frequency could be riding on the dc levels- maybe the power supply is toast. I've seen that happen before, weird goings on, and the power supply cured it. I guess I could 'scope it to see. Or just sub in a known good one.

The memtest thing sounds interesting. I wonder if this computer will actually let me run the test-

This might be a job for this weekend, and a chance to visit my friend also. I'm sure she would be more than happy to go 'puter shopping with me. I better make sure my wallet is prepared for that. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

.RC.
12-01-2005, 09:35 PM
Just use a Mac...there are no viruses made for that operating system AFAIK....

Evan
12-01-2005, 11:52 PM
The Orange PDF virus works on a MAC.

sauer38h
12-02-2005, 01:08 AM
With all the glowing accolades here I thought I'd try AVGfree. The email scan works fine for me (Win 98, OE 5), though it puts this little message at the bottom of the e-mails -

"Internal Virus Database is out-of-date."

Well, isn't that special - I just DL'd it two hours ago, and already it's out of date?

The computer scan tends to hang, though. It will go through 50,000 or 60,000 files just fine, then stop. Everything stops, except the cursor. Even ctrl-alt-del doesn't work. I've tried it on my C, D, E, and F drives, and it always hangs on something.

At least I can't complain about the price.

[This message has been edited by sauer38h (edited 12-02-2005).]

Evan
12-02-2005, 01:53 AM
It's out of date because they don't include all the updates in the current build.

If it seems to hang it may be scanning a very large file.

[added]

AVG runs at high priority when doing a user initiated scan so other inputs may be very slow to recognize.



[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-02-2005).]

Michael Az
12-03-2005, 01:36 PM
Looks like I could use a little advise also and hope I'm not hijacking the thread. I am not very good at the computer and don't understand much about them and after reading this thread I decided to download AVG and use it. I have really neglected my computer because of my lack of knowledge about them and depended on my providers virus scan. So I downloaded the AVG and it found 10 virus. They are all hidden extension files which doesn't mean anything to me but it said none of them could be cleaned. So I put them in the virus vault. I couldn't find the info but I am wondering since I put them in the vault, are they still active? Guess I don't understand what status they have now. I am running windows 98 with Firefox. I have been using Adware and spybot for a while. I must also have the conflict between AVG and Norton because I can't get mail. Think I will uninstal the Norton because it is years old and I'm sure worthless anyway. Thanks for any help.
Michael

Evan
12-03-2005, 01:44 PM
Michael,

If Norton isn't up to date then uninstall it. It's useless if not updated. You shouldn't run two different antivirus programs at the same time anyway, they interfer with each other.

If AVG put the files in the vault then they are safely taken care of. It does that in case the file contains important information that you might want to retrieve, such as in a Word document (Word documents can contain viruses).

Michael Az
12-03-2005, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the reply Evan. I was a little confused after the virus report was shown as I couldn't figure out what to do with them and I put them in the vault myself. So are you saying I can just forget about them now or do I still need to find a program to extract them?
Thanks again.
Michael

Evan
12-03-2005, 02:10 PM
You can either leave them there or delete them by emptying the "virus vault". If there is something you want to retrieve then that is a different matter and requires some care.

Michael Az
12-03-2005, 02:58 PM
OK Evan, I will just leave them there bacause I don't even know what I would be deleting!
Thanks
Michael

sauer38h
12-03-2005, 04:57 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
It's out of date because they don't include all the updates in the current build.

If it seems to hang it may be scanning a very large file.

AVG runs at high priority when doing a user initiated scan so other inputs may be very slow to recognize.
</font>

It may have been that, or maybe a conflict with another program, but it successfully scanned 840,646 files when I let it run without trying to do much else simultaneously. It took some 11 hours to do all that work. It didn't find anything, which either means that it's not looking very hard, or that my machine is as disease-free as I thought it was.

But AVG is now up-to-date. Two popups have come up in the last two days, demanding that I let it D/L update files (ZoneAlarm was blocking it, so my intervention was needed). It no longer appends the "out-of-date" message to incoming e-mails.

Overall it looks like pretty good performance from AVG, especially for a freebie. I wonder if it will suffer the same fate as my best FTP program, WS_FTP LE. The free LE version isn't offered anymore. I suspect that the free version did everything customers wanted FTP to do, so nobody bought the "real" version.

Leigh
12-03-2005, 06:14 PM
Hi Sauer,

AVG updates every day. The virus signature files included with the installable download were current as of the date it was created. When I downloaded it a few days ago, that date was October 24th. There have been many updates in the intervening six weeks.

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Leigh