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aboard_epsilon
01-03-2006, 12:43 PM
I'm getting 1200 litres delivered tomorrow.
the fiddling bastards usually deliver a load that is at at a temperature of 50c strait out of the refinery 20 miles down the road..
I'm charged for it as it comes out of the tanker on the tanker meter.
Now once it gets into my tank it cools down to the ambient temp .what ever it is .....but the average over the winter I suppose is 10 degrees centigrade.
Taking in to consideration expansion rates how much am I loosing.....I reckon maybe 15 percent.
BTW they will not do it any other way .but thru their meter.
What I would like them to do is fill up their tanker the day before and let it cool down overnight ..and make me the first delivery the next day....do you think I'm being unreasonable in doing this.
we are talking £500 of fuel here..........so 15 percent is like getting fiddled out of £75.
but it is it really 15 percent ..I don't know.
another btw.............this is premium paraffin...........kero was stated to help with answers off the americans.
it much the same in viscosity anyhows.
all the best.mark

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 01-03-2006).]

[This message has been edited by aboard_epsilon (edited 01-03-2006).]

Evan
01-03-2006, 12:58 PM
In the US and Canada if they are billing you according to the reading on their flow meter the meter must be temperature compensated. Don't know about the UK but I would expect it to be similar.

SGW
01-03-2006, 01:02 PM
See http://www.dot.state.oh.us/construction/OCA/Specs/SSandPN2002/10600402for2002.pdf
Based on a quick glance through, it appears to give you all the coefficients and formmulas you need to figure it out.
It looks as though the coefficient of expansion for kerosene is somewhere around 0.0009 per degree C, but I may have mis-read.

PTSideshow
01-03-2006, 01:07 PM
Evan is right, even the gas meter coming in to the house for natural gas is temp compensated.
It is mostlty printed on the face of the meter dials. or the name tag close to the face. Can you chat up the driver and sask him to settle a pub bet obout if the meter is temp compensated or not.

------------------
Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

[This message has been edited by PTSideshow (edited 01-03-2006).]

sauer38h
01-03-2006, 02:10 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by aboard_epsilon:
Taking in to consideration expansion rates how much am I loosing.....I reckon maybe 15 percent.</font>

Change in volume is about 4% over a 40 degree Celsius change in temp.

Dick Plasencia
01-03-2006, 03:43 PM
When an aircraft is fueled the temperature is taken into account and a correction factor applied to the delivery meter reading. It works both ways becuse in winter they would be giving fuel away while in summer the airline would be paying for "ghost" fuel. When you buy 54,000 gallons for one airplane it makes a difference.
I'm sure there has to be a law there that enforces the accurate delivery of a product like fuel. If the fuel people won't tell you check with the supplier at an airport.

webowser
01-03-2006, 04:03 PM
The information I've found agrees with what has already been posted;

"A typical value for the coefficient of thermal expansion of kerosene-type jet fuel is 0.00099 per degree Celsius. At this rate, one gallon of jet fuel will expand 4.0 percent for an increase in temperature of 40ºC [1.000 gallon at 0ºC (32ºF): 1.040 gallon at 40ºC (104ºF)]."

aboard_epsilon
01-03-2006, 04:16 PM
4% that ain't so bad ...£20 max loss if they don't have any temp compensator on the tanker.
I will see how hot the stuff is .if it is in the region of 50 degrees ..I will measure what it is when it's cooled down..to see if the figures add up.
if its something like 25 degrees delivered.then it's not worth measuring or worrying...me thinks
thanks guys for your replies
all the best.mark

J. R. Williams
01-03-2006, 09:33 PM
Products to and from the petroluem refineries are carefully measured and corrected to a base temperature of 60 deg. F. The temperature was selected as it is close to pipeline product temperature and is fairly uniform the year around. I cannot say the final delivery temperatures are temperature corrected but they should be corrected for the product temperature.

JRW

chief
01-03-2006, 09:37 PM
U.S. fuel is bought and sold at 44 gallons equaling 1bbl. measured by volume at 60 deg F.

Ian B
01-04-2006, 04:45 AM
Interesting point Adrian.

Some flowmeters have automatic temperature compensation built in, maybe the tanker's meter does too? I'd guess that this kind of thing is covered by UK trading standards regulations.

It also makes you wonder about what happens when you fill your car at the local petrol station...

Ian

Ian B
01-04-2006, 05:15 AM
Found this:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19951014_en_1.htm#tcon

No mention of temperature compensation that I could see, although there is something on viscosity and allowable errors.

Ian

micrometer50
01-04-2006, 11:21 AM
The real issue is are the same amount of BTU's for your money.