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Fasttrack
01-02-2006, 05:14 PM
I saw another post about the new drill doctor sharpening deal and i was wondering if i could get some input from you guys about the machines in general. Good or bad? It seems like i go through drill bits left and right, cobalt steel or high speed steel. (i do alot of drilling and taping and etc) The cobalt ones are all in good condition except for the points; i was wondering whether the drill doctor is worth the money or whether it would be better just to continue buying bulk pack cobalt bits of the size i need as they dull.

J Tiers
01-02-2006, 05:30 PM
You ARE stirring, aren't you?

There are a lot of opinions about the older ones. Mine are negative, so I'm down on the new, old, whatever. Others are not negaive about theirs, they seem to have nicer ones than mine, with less warp to the plastic housing http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif .

A search might get a bunch of threads on the old ones, but the new ones are maybe too new to have generated much that I saw.

QSIMDO
01-02-2006, 05:34 PM
I can't get mine to work worth beans.

I bought it from Woodworkers Warehouse so maybe it's an old model. I'll have to see if mine is 1st gen or not.

Just checked. mine is an older model.

Figures.

[This message has been edited by QSIMDO (edited 01-02-2006).]

IOWOLF
01-02-2006, 05:42 PM
I have found another use for mine(a 300)sharpening centerdrills.
They are fine for what they are and if you dont have something better.
I learned to sharpen drill bits by hand along time ago.

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The tame Wolf !

Fasttrack
01-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the replys so far, from what you three have said i dont think i will be buying one. I considered it a long time ago but kept rejecting the idea. I kind of expected them to only work so-so. They almost look like something you would see on a tv infomercial.

J Tiers - "You ARE stirring, aren't you?" ?
i am missing something i think... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

J Tiers
01-02-2006, 05:53 PM
It's just been a bit controversial, that's all. Like political stuff..... or arguing religion.

You may want to consider further inquiry. I would be shocked if they hadn't made some change for the better, but I just don't want to throw more money after mediocre.

jdunmyer
01-02-2006, 06:39 PM
I have an older DD, I think it's now called the Model 750; it has 2 collets and will sharpen drills up to 3/4".

Personally, I wouldn't be without it. The only bugaboo that I've seen is that you must be careful about getting the bit aligned in the little grabber thingy before tightening the collet.

I like mine a lot.

quasi
01-02-2006, 06:48 PM
I have a 750, it works fine if you follow the instructions CAREFULLY. Search Forrests comments on his 750.

Dave Burnett
01-02-2006, 06:49 PM
If you going through that many drills maybe you are doing something wrong in your drilling operations. Spend a little more money and get a good used Black Diamond drill grinder. That will solve all your drill sharpening problems. It will put on the correct angle and also split the point or "thin the web" as it is called in the trade for faster cutting.

viking
01-02-2006, 07:18 PM
When I first got my 750 I couldn't get it to sharpen worth a damn so I put it on the shelf. A few months later I needed to sharpen a bit so I got it down to give it another try. It worked fine! I bought a box of used bits on Ebay and used it a lot to sharpen them and again it worked fine. I would say it's great for those of us that aren't worth a darn at sharpening offhand, but a real pro can probably do better on his own.

hdacman
01-02-2006, 07:39 PM
I have used DD's since they came out. You need to be 1. very patient 2. make sure that the bit does not slip in the collet while you are sharpening. I see the new ones have a different collet to take care of some of that.

Fallow those two rules, it will work good.

J Tiers
01-02-2006, 10:47 PM
OK, the long story.......I had mine and loved it.... sharpened everything that I could find, and it worked well. Sharpened about 50 bits that I had from various sales etc.

Then all of a sudden, it went south. Not gradually worse, just one day it made a bad shape of point, and has kept it up.

I have no idea what happened. Standard alinement made the rake or clearance of the drill inverted on anything under about 1/4". They don't drill very well that way.

I talked to DD, and they couldn't give any help. The wheel is still good, not worn, or mis-shaped. It cuts a good dlean point, just cuts wrong shape a lot.

I even got new collets of a newer style, they sent me a free 3/4" one extra, but it has been screwed up ever since. I have to aline by eye, and do a couple tries, before it will get a sharp drill. Even then, it isn't consistent, do three same way, get two good ones.

If I had never got any good ones, I'd figure it was me. But it changed, and there seems to be no help for it.

fixxit
01-02-2006, 11:12 PM
I got a drill doctor 750 Pro for christmas.

It works great!

I went through and sharpened every bit larger than 3/32 (0.09375in) in every drill index that I own. I also did a bunch of throw away bits that I had been saving.

The technique that I found works well, is that you HAVE to press in a bit in on the drill holder as you turn it.

If you don't press in you get bits without enough relief at the rear of the cutting edge. Then they don't cut worth a darn.

The instructions did not make this clear.

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457863656C73696F7220212000


[This message has been edited by fixxit (edited 01-02-2006).]

Millman
01-03-2006, 08:54 AM
Have to agree with IOWULF on this one; it's not that hard to sharpen by hand, and a lot faster! Different situations require different geometries. After awhile you don't really need a drill gage. And you know; a 2 flute never cuts a ROUND hole anyway.

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Dave da Slave

Fasttrack
01-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Thanks for all of your input!

"Have to agree with IOWULF on this one; it's not that hard to sharpen by hand, and a lot faster! Different situations require different geometries. After awhile you don't really need a drill gage. And you know; a 2 flute never cuts a ROUND hole anyway."
Thats a good point, my brother-in-law has tried to teach my to sharpen by hand. I still need alot of practice to get it right! But the different geometries is interesting...for Christmas i got a cobalt steel set from rigid with a different split point than 135 or 118. I dont think the drill doctor would handle it...it was a little wider than 135 for supposedly "7 times longer bit life in metal".

Come to think of it, i dont suppose i got through tons of bits...i used up about 7 cobalt bits in about three years and i probably have close to fifty pounds of scrap metal from drilling all those holes http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif I guess i was always expecting them to last as long as my dad's bits, of course he's a woodworking guy so his set of cobalt has lasted him 12 + years and still looks as sharp as ever!
Although the drill doctor sounds intriguing i think i will save my money and put it to something else that i personally would get more use out of. Maybe i'll look at getting a h/v bandsaw, sounds like those cheap $200 are actually pretty good. Thanks again for the input!

Tin Falcon
01-03-2006, 09:00 PM
Fasttrack:
I will cast a yes vote for the drill doctor. The new top of the line was just on sale at Sears for about $138.00 . It looks like they made it for flexable and versetile than the older models. I have one of the older model 500 I took it into work a couple of times when I was machining professionaly and did some split points. The DD like many other tools in the machine shop has a learning curve and requites some skill. practice and feel to operate consistently .I would not give house room for the cheaper models. If you get one go for top of the line.
Tin

gizmo2
01-03-2006, 11:00 PM
I like mine. I don't always get it right, sometimes it takes me a few tries to 'remember' the technique. But when it's good, it's very satisfying to use that bit again. Better'n new ones.

uute
01-04-2006, 01:06 AM
I got a 750 about 2 months ago (not the new 750x). Seemed to work great on 118* bits w/ a standard helix.

Faster helix required adjustment of the "Finger clamp" alinment setup, but could be done. Split points were tough, point sharpwd OK, but splitting was by "feel", and my port was pretty snug - result was they all over cut, then you have to grind the points again - like 3 times! This was my gripe.

I think this is the improvement on the new one, a split point stop. Not sure though?

uute

Millman
01-04-2006, 01:18 AM
It almost sounds like I can grind 3-5 Broken bits in the amount of time it takes to set the machine to put out 1 Good bit! It doesn't take that long to grind freehand and you can hold a .001 tolerance on diameter of the hole. Just takes some practice, and 200.00 will buy some more TOOLing. Just my opinion.

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Dave da Slave

Fasttrack
01-04-2006, 10:13 AM
"It almost sounds like I can grind 3-5 Broken bits in the amount of time it takes to set the machine to put out 1 Good bit! It doesn't take that long to grind freehand and you can hold a .001 tolerance on diameter of the hole. Just takes some practice, and 200.00 will buy some more TOOLing. Just my opinion."

Thats sort of the direction i am leaning. A completely new tool (something that does something i currently can't do at all) or tooling is probably more worth my money at this point. I don't have alot of money to spend so if i buy a drill doctor that will probably be my only purchase for a while. Rather spend it on something else i think

david_in_ky
01-04-2006, 11:33 AM
I have used a new style drill dr. for about 2 years and it's great. If you can hand sharpen to a rough point and dub in some clearance, then use the dd to finish it's great. if you have a really worn or spalled off, it takes a while and heats up.

I give it about at 90 out of a possible 100.

IOWOLF
01-04-2006, 11:49 AM
Though some have heard this before......

At Vickers Omaha plant we were told to throw away 1/4" and smaller bits becouse they were less than a dollar each,the average tool grinder there was makeing $18 bucks an hour,as it takes 5 minutes to setup and grind a bit they lost money.That was there opinion,not mine.I have a coffee can full of bits, All 1/4" and smaller,What a coincidence.

But Back to the DD question,They are fine for WHO they were made for,and once you master one it will serve you well for what it is designed for.

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The tame Wolf !

Your Old Dog
01-04-2006, 04:24 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fasttrack:
I don't have alot of money to spend so if i buy a drill doctor that will probably be my only purchase for a while. Rather spend it on something else i think</font>

I'm fixing to buy one off eBay. But I already have a H/V bandsaw. Were I you, I'd be looking at one of the little 4x6 saws instead of Drill Dr. I already got the saw and found it more useful than I expect to find the Drill Doctor. I want the Drill Dr because I can afford it right now and looks like a useful accessory to the shop. You really NEED a 4x6 bandsaw. (maybe you just don't know it yet http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif }



[This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 01-04-2006).]

Your Old Dog
01-04-2006, 04:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by david_in_ky:
I have used a new style drill dr. for about 2 years and it's great. If you can hand sharpen to a rough point and dub in some clearance, then use the dd to finish it's great. if you have a really worn or spalled off, it takes a while and heats up.

I give it about at 90 out of a possible 100.</font>


David I'll keep that in mind. It makes a lot of sense. I have a drawer full of yard sale bits and the bench grinder would be a good place to start with them. I can grind the big ones by hand it's the smaller ones that keep me at the grinder all day with mediocre (sp) results. Good idea. A good example of thinking out of the box, although the box ain't such a bad place to be thi....n.... I won't go there http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

j king
01-04-2006, 05:24 PM
I have a 750 and think it does a good job within its limitations.I work in a shop everyday and hand sharpen bits at work.I wished we had one of these little things to do smaller bits.It doesnt take a minute to sharpen a bit.Mine will always cut.Dont know what others are doing but I would have to give it the thumbs up.
Ps.I bought mine on amazon and paid 69.00 including free shipping.I feel I got my moneys worth.I just ordered a replacement wheel on amazon for 16.00 with free shipping.

[This message has been edited by j king (edited 01-04-2006).]

Anzaniste
01-04-2006, 06:43 PM
How about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/DRILL-BIT-SHAPENER-SHARPENING-GUIDE-GRINDING-TOOL-JIG_W0QQitemZ7577117392QQcategoryZ36345QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not expensive and helps to learn how to sharpen drill by hand.

J Tiers
01-04-2006, 09:07 PM
Danged if those don't work better than my screwed up DD. I have one and use it.

But its a pain, compared to a DD, so if the blinking DD would just work right again, I'd be happier.... Those first 50 bits were great... before it did whatever mysterious thing it did.

I don't think the DD folks were happy with me when I said that I had had to go back to that type because the DD wasn't working as well as those do.

Fasttrack
01-04-2006, 11:41 PM
"You really NEED a 4x6 bandsaw. (maybe you just don't know it yet }"

Haha, yeah I've known it for a long time. In fact i wanted one of those along time before i got a mill/lathe, chop saw, tool chest, etc but that was because i was skeptical about those little ones from HF. I was thinking about saving up for a real expensive unit (a 230 w/ hydraulic downfeed and etc) but kept putting it off because of the cost. I figured i'd better spend my money on some kind of tool that could do something i currently couldnt do rather than do something faster/better than i can already do. So it was me and the hacksaw or angle-grinder for a long time http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif Seeing how well everyone seems to like the HF saws for the money, and considering the light duty stuff i'd use it for, i am excited about getting one.

IOWOLF
01-05-2006, 05:14 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anzaniste:
How about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/DRILL-BI T-SHAPENER-SHARPENING-GUIDE-GRINDING-TOOL-JIG_W0QQitemZ7577117392QQcategoryZ36345QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/DRILL-BIT-SHAPENER-SHARPENING-GUIDE-GRINDING-TOOL-JIG_W0QQitemZ7577117392QQcategoryZ36345QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Not expensive and helps to learn how to sharpen drill by hand.</font>

That was a JOKE , right?



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The tame Wolf !

Millman
01-05-2006, 05:45 AM
I am sure someone will come up with a detailed, drawn out explanation of how THAT POS will help to teach offhand sharpening! HA!

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Dave da Slave

Anzaniste
01-05-2006, 06:28 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IOWOLF:
That was a JOKE , right?

</font>

Not really.

ahidley
01-05-2006, 06:43 AM
I have a DD and I love it.. I was never succussful in sharpening a drill by hand so that BOTH cutting edges did the same amount of work. The DD took alittle pratice but now its just like using a pencil sharpener. Takes about 5 mins.... The convience of always having a brand new bit is great. That is what you have after sharpening on the DD...

Knowing what I know now about the DD I would buy another in a heartbeat if I didnt have one.. I just wish I bought one years ago!

cmiller231
01-05-2006, 08:13 PM
J Tiers , was just wondering , why don't you send yours back to DD and ask them why yours don't work as good as the ones posted in this thread/, Their action may prove a lot about them as a company .WE all know that no tool or anything else man made will last forever, but it sounds like yours has never been right.
My 750 has worked perfectly, I rotate the collet slowly as i rotate the collet Chris
Ypsilanti Mich

cmiller231
01-05-2006, 08:16 PM
What I meant ws, will "not " last forever

DICKEYBIRD
01-05-2006, 08:25 PM
I bumped into this site http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html the other day and bookmarked it for future use when I find the smarts to be able to use the info. This guy's stuff is great, IMO.

J Tiers
01-05-2006, 10:43 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmiller231:
J Tiers , was just wondering , why don't you send yours back to DD and ask them why yours don't work as good as the ones posted in this thread/, Their action may prove a lot about them as a company .</font>

Well, I did contact them. They had no idea what was wrong, said that mine was from "one of the best batches" according to the date code, and that was it. The did send me a "better" chuck, and a 3/4" chuck for free, but those didn't change the thing.

They didn't want it sent in, and I really didn't get the impression that they were into repairs... They really basically told me that I was doing it wrong, to look at the video again, totally ignoring the fact that I had had fine results up until it went bad.

Actually, it WAS good for the first 50 bits. Then the reverse clearance thing started.

I can still use it, IF I ignore their alinement gizmo and hold my mouth right when operating it..... but it isn;t very easy.

Oh, another thing.......

The alinement thingus in teh front of teh old style DD is ONLY for "standard" twist drills. If your twist is different, you will have to do it by trial and error, the alinement gizzy won't get it right.

Lots of surplus drills have non-standard twist rates (what IS standard, anyway?) and those you must do by hand.

The alinement gizmo holds the drill across the flute edges a distance back from teh point. if the twist rate is different from expected, the point won't be at the right rotational angle where it contacts the wheel.

cmiller231
01-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Well, I did contact them. They had no idea what was wrong, said that mine was from "one of the best batches" according to the date code, and that was it. The did send me a "better" chuck, and a 3/4" chuck for free, but those didn't change the thing.

J Tiers . Sounds like you are a really a unhappy costomer with your DD. Since ther are few moving/ adjustable parts it would seem to me that there is a problem in that alingment thing which i know you are smart enough to suspect long ago .
I would still feel compelled to contact them one more time .I know you said that they did not want to repair it . It says on their web page that they used 30 yrs experience from the Darex Corp to develop DD. Then they must certainly have the resources to fix one repair. WE bought a much more expensive Darex model at {$1500} at work and it didn't really work that much better than the one i got ,for the money.I know what you mean by the high helix drills. although i haven't sharpened any of them yet. I just helped my brother in law use his new model { he is not machinist }It did a great job , great split points and a great finish , better than my 750 as far as finish.May a finer grit diamond plated wheel.
Chris
Ypsilanti Mich

ahidley
01-06-2006, 06:34 AM
J Tiers The only "issue" that I've had was that dust gets into the "tilting" mechanism thingie. That causes crappy results. So I blow it out with the air hose after every few bits. Works like a champ.

The other possibility that you have could be overtightening the chuck. Put in your bit, tighten it, then look at the fingers holding the bit. If its overtight the fingers will be twisted, i.e. not perpendicular with the bit. If they are just loosen the chuck a tiny bit and they will straighten up. It is a plastic chuck, ya cant ask much from it!! *L* ALso blow the dust out of this too. The fingers have to slide freely.

J Tiers
01-06-2006, 12:14 PM
I have done the deal with cleaning and checking alinement on the chuck fingers. Wasn't it. Isn't something bent in the alinement section either, although that is fairly silly as a system.

The problem seems to be in the "sharpening tube" and related stuff.

If I remove the wheel cover, I can see that the end of the drill can rattle back and forth sideways a total of around 1/8 inch, maybe more, as the collet is rattled in the sharpening tube. With a smaller drill, that is easily enough to mess up the clearance angle badly. With larger drills it is less critical.

That loose, turning the collet in the tube to sharpen is a problem. Almost impossible to hold it towards the correct side and not let it wiggle and ruin the point.

Sure ain't like a pencil sharpener anymore..unless its like the one in 5th grade that always broke the pencil if you didn't hold it right....

There isn't enough visible wear to cause this, and the collets are new. It seems to be some sort of inherent looseness that has cropped up in the sharpening tube.

You've got me going....I will have another look at it and see if I can ID the problem. Maybe I can fix it even if DD cannot. Like I need another "fix the machine" project.

My suspicion is that it is simply due to plastic construction. Possible warpage, might be wear, a litle tab broken off, etc.

I could sure use to have it working. I have lots of drills to sharpen. I sorted them out by size from all over the shop, got in all the junk boxes etc. Now I need to sharpen the lot so they are off my bench. Can't put them in their cabinet drawers until they are sharp.

The irritating part is that it worked so well from the "git-go", and then messed up for no visible reason.

If its no go still, I'll consider Madman's solution on this guy...... PULL!

ahidley
01-06-2006, 01:12 PM
I use lots of oil on my drill bits for drilling and when I'm done it keeps the rust at bay. So when i go to resharpen them this left over oil combines with the dust within the DD and makes a concrete substance. Perhaps a solvent in the "tube" will make it function correctly. Mine will move 1/8 in also like you stated. But with "constant twists of the wrist" each being exactly the same and pressure going to the same surfaces then I get good/better than new bits.

Its just like sharpening a knife. 500 strokes and its perfect one more off angle and its a butter knife.

FWIW when I was in 5th grade I mastered the pencil sharpener... I understand that thought