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mklotz
01-12-2006, 03:20 PM
Every year or so I raise this question on the BBs in the fond hope that
something may have changed since I last asked it.

Has anyone ever seen plans (or kits) to make working models of any form of
WWI/II artillery?

I'm most interested in stuff like the deck guns used on submarines, Liberty
ships and the German Atlantic raiders or British Q ships but stuff like a
German 88 or siege gun would be nice too. The ability of the model to
actually fire is of no importance to me. I'm more interested in the
working mechanisms - breech, recoil, training, etc.

Model engineers seem to be in a bit of rut when it comes to subjects to model.
Locomotives, road engines, various stationary engines and pumps and the
occasional 24 pounder, Napoleonic cannon or Gatling gun seem to dominate the
available plans. More recent military hardware seems a neglected though
fertile field.

When I was a kid, there was a company which made plastic kits to build working
miniatures of famous firearms. I remember building a six inch long model of
the Winchester lever action and being fascinated by the way it cocked the
hammer. Maybe publishing plans for even non-firing, miniature firearms is
illegal in our brave new world?

PM Research, with their kits to build working models of Victorian machine
tools, opened a whole new modeling subject matter. But I've built all their
kits and now am ready for something entirely different.

Regards, Marv

Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

PTSideshow
01-12-2006, 03:42 PM
there is a guy who is at the NAMES show every year. That has a couple of large guns Model size. One of them on a railcar the others of the type naval guns. Made from brass and stainless. Working to the point of up down ect.
I remember him and another guy that builds guns there saysing that they use model plans for the mags for the plastic kits that have plans. and there are a number of railplans for miltary stuff.
Also you may want to check some of the plastic kit mags out because the publishers that deal in that stuff sell thier books in them. You will find them like the kind they sell for airplanes of that vintage, with all the info of the full sized ones you just have to scale the measurements down to what ever scale you are working in. don't know if I still have any of the mags. will look for the address. I remember one of the book publisher was in England.
http://www.google.com/search?q=military+modeling&start=0&ie=u tf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US (http://www.google.com/search?q=military+modeling&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US)

here is the google for miltary models
------------------
Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

[This message has been edited by PTSideshow (edited 01-12-2006).]

[This message has been edited by PTSideshow (edited 01-12-2006).]

Norman Atkinson
01-12-2006, 03:52 PM
Marv,

I have Googled for Q-Ships and cannot find the old book. With fading memory, I believe that it was simply called Q-Ships. again, I recall fascinating photos which would end up with a delightful model.

Nice to see something different!

Norm

JCHannum
01-12-2006, 03:55 PM
I have a set of plans I got at the NAMES show from a different person. It is a deck gun, fires 22 long rifle. It was originally in The Model Craftsman, March 1945.

x39
01-12-2006, 03:55 PM
If I recall correctly, one of books in the Lindsay's catalog includes plans for a model rapid fire deck gun, I guess that would be circa Spanish-American War. There are a couple of them outside the library the next town over, which I have photographed and measured with an eye towards making a scale model. One of the nicest models I've seen was in a book, can't recall the title. It was an all stainless, firing, scale model of a Japanese anti-aircraft gun.

PTSideshow
01-12-2006, 04:01 PM
Model tech had some in it acouple of years ago. a naval cannonfrom sail days and others can't put my hands on the isssue at this moment.

------------------
Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

Norman Atkinson
01-12-2006, 04:03 PM
Marv,
A bit more success! I Googled Q-Ships and came up with something called
www.battleships- (http://www.battleships-) cruisers.co.uk etc
and the book 'Q-Ships and their story' by E K Chatterton(1972).

My sort of thing- the Trojan Horse on water.
we did the same type of trick in 1949 in the RAF.

Norm

thistle
01-12-2006, 05:12 PM
Funny i was looking at a sadly neglected
rifled muzzle loader the other day.

i was thinking of making a model of it

this gun is still on its original mount ,even had bronze degree markings intact on the ground , would have thought some one would have pinched tose awhile ago.
pics next time i am up that way

there are some drawings for various artillery pieces available from-

www.spanamwar.com/storeartillery.htm (http://www.spanamwar.com/storeartillery.htm)

Ihave not bought any thing.


other places to try might be the imperial war museum in the uk.

I cant do it-not legal here- but think a model of an early qf gun in say .50 cal would be fun!




[This message has been edited by thistle (edited 01-12-2006).]

thistle
01-12-2006, 05:23 PM
looking at some of my saved links-

who knows what you find in this link-lots of artillery and ordnance related stuff.

http://www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/

more

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/


ordnance society

http://freespace.virgin.net/ordnance.society/

JCHannum
01-12-2006, 05:48 PM
In this same vein, does anyone know if someone is still handling William Greene's cannon plans?

I got several from him just before he stopped selling, but there are a couple more I would like to have. If nobody is selling them, perhaps someone is interested in trading copies for copies?

BillH
01-12-2006, 05:56 PM
Well, your onto something, that would be neat, model artillery or deck gun with all the moving parts. Theres a tank museum near me, I think they have a large 5" deck gun outside on display, I should take some pictures some time.

Kansas_Farmer
01-12-2006, 06:30 PM
I did some quick scaling on a 16"L50 Mk. 7 Navy Rifle. If you wanted to build an Iowa Class BB and scale the main battery to .22 cal, the guns would be just short of 11" long and the entire thing would be close to 12' long. About the size of yer average 3 man canoe.

Now, how to make a .22LR blow up when it hits something......

Mcostello
01-12-2006, 07:21 PM
"other machinist site" someone mentioned Locktiting a #11 primer on front of a .22 , and it sayed on until target.

billyboy
01-12-2006, 07:34 PM
hi, i had the same trouble locating plans for a british army 25 pounder gun, (although it served in many conflicts with different armys). i joined the royal artillery in 1977 did my basic gunnery course on this gun and actually had the pleasure of firing live H.E shells on the army training grounds on salisbury plaines, i also fired this gun on several royal salutes for the queens and queen mothers birthdays, i live on the east coast of england where there is a military museum at fort paul, luckily there is a 25 pounder gun standing outside the main gates, along with other naval coast defence guns permanantly mounted, the 25 pounder has the sight cone and breech fully intact, i managed to take some photos of it but i just cant remember where they are,,if anyone is interested i will take some more of the guns when the weather fairs up a little. unless the gypsy's have drove off with it for scrap or for a scrap! ha!.

bill

Rich Carlstedt
01-12-2006, 08:13 PM
I have wanted to build artillery pieces for many years and have a bit of a collection of drawings from any source i could find.
I am not too wild about WW II stuff. The earliy breechloaders are fasinating.
I want to buid a French 75 and have several books on it, but there are no plans.
This piece was the fore runner of all modern artillery pieces, so i thought it important. I even went to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds and spoke to the fellow incharge of the extensive library and no plans were there !He looked through 30 + books . They have a real beautiful
WW I version in the Lobby too!

You probably want to find some books by Ian Hogg and John Batchelor. They are experts and have several books, one book is called "Artillery"
published by Balentine books SBN 345-23499-5-495
However, the very best book for details and information is

"Early British Quick Firing Artillery" by Len Trawin
published by NEXUS ( In Britain )in 1997
ISBN 1-85486-154-9
This SUPERB book has a little bit of history before going into a 15 pounder,18 pounder4 1/2 inch and a 5 inch quick firing guns.
It has well over 100 drawings with details of: sighting, breech, suspension system ,barrel construction etc, etc
ALL the parts are named as well. Its a gold mine.
It can be purchased from Tee Publications in England or from
Wise Owl Publications in Torrence California.

My friend Dick Wonderlic is the builder of that magnificent rail gun you mentioned.
I am going to Cabin Fever with Dick and he is bringing the model again.

Kansas_Farmer
01-12-2006, 09:46 PM
I "might' have a source for 3 view drawings and some other stuff for lots of wwii atg's.

Things like:

German:
PaK 36
FLaK 18
PaK 38

French:
mle 1937 47mm
mle 1934 25mm

British:
RQF 2lb
RQF 6lb
RQF 17lb

US:
M1A3 57mm ATG (US Copy of the RQF 6lb)

All of these guns are used in a PC game. The dev guys built these 3d models using drawings and other info from the various military data sources they have to pick from. One might look there for info on where to source plans and other drawings.

BillH
01-12-2006, 09:50 PM
Kansas, you talking about WW2 Online?

Kansas_Farmer
01-12-2006, 10:34 PM
I am

You familiar with same?

BillH
01-12-2006, 10:45 PM
played it a few times, Love doing the tanks in it, but not going to pay 10$ or what ever it is a month to play it.

Norman Atkinson
01-13-2006, 01:05 AM
BillyBoy,
I remain convinced that you were one of the so and so's who opened fire on me on Otterburn Range in Northumberland.

You were getting at me- you filthy rotten swine- you nearly deaded me.( Eccles in the Goon Show)

Norm

mklotz
01-13-2006, 10:08 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions and pointers, guys. I'm pleased to see that my
persistence in asking this question eventually generated such a wealth of
responses. I've printed them out and will follow up as time allows.

Regards, Marv

Home Shop Freeware - Tools for People Who Build Things
http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

ehughes
01-13-2006, 12:22 PM
You might want to try the Minature Arms Society www.minaturearms.com (http://www.minaturearms.com) - they may have some plans. A member there, Ralph Koebbeman is an expert on minature (& probably full-sized) artillery. My kids have made a couple of models of Civil War era cannons for actual plans reproduced by Antique Ordnance Publishing in Michigan somewhere. Will look up the address if anyone is interested. Regards Earl

Bguns
01-13-2006, 02:13 PM
http://www.military-info.com/research/Rp43.htm
Poke around here for manuals

BillH
01-13-2006, 04:10 PM
If you have any friends that model 1/35th millitary stuff, the one I know of has an extensive library full of books on the subject matters. They are an excellent resource.

IOWOLF
01-13-2006, 04:18 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kansas_Farmer:
I did some quick scaling on a 16"L50 Mk. 7 Navy Rifle. If you wanted to build an Iowa Class BB and scale the main battery to .22 cal, the guns would be just short of 11" long and the entire thing would be close to 12' long. About the size of yer average 3 man canoe.

Now, how to make a .22LR blow up when it hits something......</font>

Take a CB cap and glue a percusion cap to it.
Shooting at dusk or night you will see it hit with a flash.
Now for .38 you use hollow points and put primers in the tips.
Dont ask me how I know



------------------
The tame Wolf !

JeffG
01-13-2006, 05:16 PM
Places to try if you're looking for plans:

the Watervliet Arsenal, Watervliet, NY. They were the last builders of the battleship guns, and still produce large artillery for Army and Navy. May have plans from WWII or know where to find them.

USS New Jersey - she is now a museum in Camden, NJ. They may have plans.

USS Olympia (built ~1895), Admiral Dewey's flagship at Manilla Bay, is on display in Philadelphia, and has some beautiful 5" mounts, one original, 3 slightly later.
http://home.comcast.net/~jegreenblatt/Olympia/Gun.jpg

Let us know if you find anything.