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Herb W
01-05-2006, 12:30 PM
Looking for specs for the #1/2 size. I've found some online info for the larger sizes but not for the 1/2.
Anyone know what it's capacities are, or a site that lists them? Also wondering how much they weigh.

Ries
01-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Here is some info for really old ones- the models changed over the years, as the oldest ones were made from plate, then the mid century ones were cast, and then they moved back to plate again- but this is a start.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/buffaloironworker.jpg

PTSideshow
01-05-2006, 01:17 PM
https://www.wttool.com:443/wtool/default2.asp?
they have there on version probably chicom. also J&L has had them in there last sales flyer.
http://www.jlindustrial.com/
last time I picked up my order at the local Wholsale tool they had one on the floor. a whole lot of scrap iron went from this country to china and recycled to make it big and heavy

------------------
Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

Ries
01-05-2006, 02:14 PM
Those little "metalpro" ironworkers are a joke compared to a buffalo- 450lbs versus 3500lbs for a no 1/2 buffalo.
And for a tool like this, weight and mass are important.

While personally I like hydraulic ironworkers better, a buffalo is pretty bulletproof, and will outlast you. And punches and shear blades are still available for them.

PTSideshow
01-05-2006, 02:58 PM
This is the one I was talking about 2,2500lbs.
http://wttool.com/p/2796-0032
they also have a 3 phase version. its also on sale now.
Jaws IV 55 Ton Ironworker
Jaws IV 55 Ton Ironworker

Your Price
$6199.00
reg: $6689.00
Save: $490

Item: 2796-0032
Ship Weight: 2250.00 lbs.

Product Description
Single phase
Specifications:
Punching
Rated Capacity: 55 Ton
Throat Depth: 7"
Max. Capacity: 1-1/8 dia., 5/8 plate
Largest Standard Punch & Die: 1-1/16 punch, 1-1/4 die
Optional Oversize Table & Holder: 1-9/16 punch, 1-5/8 die
Open & Shut Height: 8-1/8 and 6-7/8
Stroke: 1-1/4
Bar Shear
Rounds/Squares: 1-1/8
Flat Max. Thickness: 3/4 x 4"
Flat Max. Width: 1/2 x 12" & 3/8 x 14"
Angle Shear
Max. Size: 3" x 3" x 3/8 & 4" x 4" x 1/4
Cycle Time: 1/2 x 2" shear, 2 seconds
Hydraulics: 10 gal. reservoir, 220 PSI, 1 - 4-1/2 cylinder
Motor: 3HP, 3-Phase, 208/240V
Dimensions
Base: 41-1/2 x 40"
Height: 57"
Complete punching system. Hydraulic system charged and ready to operate. Fully guarded, sound insulated. Remote foot pedal operation, tray for cut stock, punch strippers, coupling wrench. Low rake angle on shear blades. Integral lifting lug for instant portability. Shear blades reversible for extra long life. Hydraulic system can easily be modified to operate other hydraulic equipment. Fast adjusting hold down bars. Direct drive pump. Comfortable operating height.
------------------
Glen
Been there, probally broke it doing that

[This message has been edited by PTSideshow (edited 01-05-2006).]

[This message has been edited by PTSideshow (edited 01-05-2006).]

Ries
01-05-2006, 05:04 PM
Those are the Edwards ironworkers, made in the USA.
Notice that while the one you posted has a bit more tonnage, at 55 tons than a no 1/2 buffalo, which is about a 35 ton machine, it weighs a half ton less. and the equivalent buffalo weighs 6000lbs.

Edwards is sort of the bottom end of actual usuable ironworkers. Kinda rinky dink, but they work.

Next up the scale would be the scotchman, and then Piranna, and HMI, and then you get into the better, imported machines-
Mubea, Peddinghaus, Kingsland, Geka, and so on.

But he is looking at an old, probably very old, buffalo, which is probably pretty cheap. And will still do the job just fine.

wierdscience
01-05-2006, 11:42 PM
Got a Buffalo #1/2 at work,excellent machine,very versitle.

It can punch 13/16 in 3/4 plate,larger in thinner steel.It can shear 3x6x3/8 angle,5/8x6 flatbar and shear up to 1/2 plate of unlimited width using the bypass feature.It can also punch to the center of a 2x2"angle iron leg.It will shear 1-5/8" round bar and depending on the tooling package do a whole lot more.

The one we have is a mid sixties model and is completely different than the one pictured above.

I have a #1-1/2 that I am rebuilding,it is rated at 85 ton.I also worked a 2-1/2 that was rated at I believe 105ton.It would do a 1-3/4 hole in 3/4 plate no problem,that's a hole lot of hole in one second http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

If you have any questions about the machine feel free to e-mail me.

Buffalo was still in business as of last year,might give them a call.

cam m
01-06-2006, 09:11 AM
Weird,
Buffalo has a website that is up and running. Apparently they've changed their name from "Buffalo Forge" to "Buffalo Machine Works"
Cam

Dawai
01-06-2006, 09:27 AM
I'd be tempted if I did not have a ironworker to build one. I have a project in works, it is a 6" diameter x 4" stroke cylinder. I want a hole punch I can hang on a chain.

You can buy the shear, hole punch, break, angle cutter attachments. Someone should come up with a simple plan to use them.

Outside most hsm'ers need thou. It will punch a hole in seconds, shear plate stock in seconds, angle.. but sits there.. A production machine that makes me smile when I use it. I got a cheap one at auction, paid for by a friend I made lots of money the month before. So..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/Dscn0523.jpg
This one cost $460 at auction.. No it's not for sale.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/Dscn0603.jpg
this one cost $100 at auction, Its a press that has no tooling at the moment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/Dscn1015.jpg
This is the fit-all.. probably the way to do it.. You could adapt any tooling you want. It will crumble things you press. I calculate 50 tons, 5,000 ps1 on the guage. Scares me to death. Just the pressure flipping of the hyd hose is enough to near break your arm. As is, it is computer/manual and has a readout for depth and setpoint in auto.. It will bend 1/2x12" plate in a 90.. Scares me thou cause it hollers when it gets under that kind of pressure.
I ain't so scared I won't use it thou.

This one cost me $100 too.. Piranaha die was a extra at another auction. I added in the controls. It had a up limit, dn foot pedal made it go down, up pedal made it go up. It still works that way in manual without the computer on. Software switches the pedal to run the spot welder/timer/air, and now the Rousselle press is siamiased on the hydraulics. The pass through Normally open valves feed the pass through normally open valve in the rousselle. No tooling for it thou I have started a hole punch.

A 120volt powerpack is about $500 at grainger, a 12" ibeam is a good base, or make a press and adapt the attachments. It ain't nothing magical or rocket science. Just leverage and pressure and alignment.

[This message has been edited by David E Cofer (edited 01-06-2006).]

Herb W
01-06-2006, 05:48 PM
Had a look at the Buffalo today. It looks quite similar to the one in the catalog pic though probably somewhat newer. (Thanks for posting that, Ries)
It does have a notcher above the punching station and coper above the shear.

I don't have much experience with these machines, but I can see that this one is due for a good going over. Didn't see anything broken on it, but it does have slop & wear...probably in all of the usual places. The drive pinion looks to be fairly well worn...suppose it might last quite a while yet though in a non production shop.

I did come across Buffalo's website and I'm going to see if I can find out how old this machine is - out of curiosity if nothing else.

Haven't made an offer on it yet. Won't be very high if I do. Actually, I'd rather have a hydraulic, but good used ones don't come on the market very often here, and when they do they're pricey.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'd be tempted if I did not have a ironworker to build one</font>

I understand the sentiment David, but have far too many projects on the list as it is.
Looks like you have some nice auction 'finds'.

Btw Ries, a few years ago, I was given an old Hendley & Whittemore punch - shear which was made in Beloit Wi. I'm wondering if the Beloit company somehow evolved into or was bought out by H&W... What year is the English Bros catalog?



[This message has been edited by Herb W (edited 01-06-2006).]

L Webb
01-06-2006, 06:37 PM
Had a big old Buffalo ironworker that we scrapped. The thing weighed just over 10,000 pounds. The crankshaft driving the shear portion was disconnected to satisfy insurance. We only used it to punch holes. The 22" throat depth allowed us to do things we couldn't do on the punch presses.

If you are going to use a mechanical ironworker, please make sure you fully understand how to setup and operate it. Once you engage the ram it is going to complete the stroke. A crash will destroy things.

We also have a punch press converted much like David's. The frame from an old POS Diamond 60 ton OBI press was used. The crank was cut and an Enerpac hydraulic cylinder was installed to drive the ram. It is powered with a portable Enerpac power unit. The old man made shear tooling for it. I can cut 1/4" X 10" plate with it.

As far as insurance is concerned, it is still a punch press. To us it is a shear. I can put punch tooling in it if I want to.

Les

[This message has been edited by L Webb (edited 01-06-2006).]

wierdscience
01-06-2006, 06:52 PM
The Buffalo #1-1/2 I bought at auction for $450,they go cheap.
The #1/2 at work the boss paid $3500 for,they are kind of rare and if they are in good conditon will bring anywhere from $1500-4000.I think the reason is they are small enough for most small fab and ornamental iron shops and will also work circles around a hydro.

Too_Many_Tools
01-06-2006, 08:20 PM
Ok..ok..you've convinced me...I need ANOTHER tool. ;&lt; )

Any suggestions as to how to build an ironworker suited for the HSM shop?

Is building it around a H frame press the way to go? Why aren't the commercial units built around a similar design?

Frame size? Cylinder size? Pressures involved? Stroke? What do you suggest?

What types of tooling would you recommend one start looking for?

Sounds like a good project...has anyone else built one? Any examples on line? Any examples in past magazines?

Thanks

TMT

wierdscience
01-06-2006, 08:31 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Too_Many_Tools:
Ok..ok..you've convinced me...I need ANOTHER tool. ;&lt; )

Any suggestions as to how to build an ironworker suited for the HSM shop?

Is building it around a H frame press the way to go? Why aren't the commercial units built around a similar design?

Frame size? Cylinder size? Pressures involved? Stroke? What do you suggest?

What types of tooling would you recommend one start looking for?

Sounds like a good project...has anyone else built one? Any examples on line? Any examples in past magazines?

Thanks

TMT</font>

Notice the one David has uses the lever/fulcrum principal,that is what I would build if I were doing it.

Too_Many_Tools
01-06-2006, 09:57 PM
Ok..ok..you've convinced me...I need ANOTHER tool. ;&lt; )

Any suggestions as to how to build an ironworker suited for the HSM shop?

Is building it around a H frame press the way to go? Why aren't the commercial units built around a similar design?

Frame size? Cylinder size? Pressures involved? Stroke? What do you suggest?

What types of tooling would you recommend one start looking for?

Sounds like a good project...has anyone else built one? Any examples on line? Any examples in past magazines?

Thanks

TMT

Dawai
01-07-2006, 12:08 AM
The levers compound the tonnage put on them.

The scotchman will punch 1/2" through 1/2 plate easily, but you look, it is a 6" cylinder there on the end of the fulcrum arm about three feet away. Not sure how much pressure is pushing. No guage on that one.

You need a way to "guide" the punch, guide the shear.. Buying a complete unit that goes onto a ironworker is the "premade" deal. www.grainger.com (http://www.grainger.com) has them, along with edwards. along with..

If I was going all the way again, I'd build a H-press, then outfit it with tubing benders and punches, and shears, and sheetmetal dies, and ..... Hard to let anything around here just do one thing.

I looked to see where you are? I got a H- frame sitting here rusting. No hydraulics.. but then.. HF has a 50 ton for $699..complete.

Herb W
01-13-2006, 09:09 AM
Update on the Buffalo:
I've been in touch with Buffalo machine tools and found out that this #1/2 was built in 1947.
A replacement drive pinion (gear) is available - for $1150...
Anyone have any ideas for an alternate source
for a pinion?

Too_Many_Tools
01-13-2006, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the offer but I already have a H-frame...that is why I am interested in hearing and seeing what others have done to enhance their presses.

Has anyone else enhanced their H-frame? If so, pictures would be great.

TMT

Ries
01-13-2006, 02:46 PM
The problem with using a H press to punch holes is that you can only punch holes in stuff that fits inside the press frame.
I built a big H press a few years ago, and copied the enerpac presses- I have the cylinder assembly clamped to the top frame member with 4 bolts, so if I loosen them, I can slide the cylinder assembly left or right, giving me more flexibility.

The very first Scotchman ironworkers, like the one David has, also had inboard punches- it is easier to get the pressure this way.
The later ones, and most commercial ironworkers, have a C shaped open throat for the punch- its a lot more flexible, as you can punch holes in the edges of really big pieces.

Scotchman ironworkers started out with a "tooling bay" where different ironworker modules got interchanged-
this would be an easy way to use a H frame hydraulic press- you can buy really good modules from Scotchman, but they cost about a grand apiece, for press brake, round bar, square bar, and angle shears.
There are cheaper, lighter duty ones available for the metal pro, from Northern Sales.
Unfortunately, neither of them sell punch modules, as the punch station is the one that is built in and dedicated on both ironworkers.
Here is the scotchman page of tooling-
http://www.scotchman.com/special_tooling.php

Lower priced ironworkers from most makers use the lever principle, but the better ironworkers use machined vertical slides- which eliminates the arc the punch travels in- its very slight, and undetectable in most uses, but if you think about it, if the punch is at the outboard end of the lever, it is scribing an arc, rather than a straight up and down punching motion.
For very precise punching, you want that up and down- which the Peddinghaus, and Mubea ironworkers from germany have- at twice, or more, the cost.

wierdscience
01-13-2006, 07:24 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Herb W:
Update on the Buffalo:
I've been in touch with Buffalo machine tools and found out that this #1/2 was built in 1947.
A replacement drive pinion (gear) is available - for $1150...
Anyone have any ideas for an alternate source
for a pinion?


</font>
Get the specs on the gear,tooth count,pa,face width etc and contact these folks-

http://www.linngear.com/

I have bought several large gears from them in the past,they are very reasonable.You may be able to get a stock gear from them for less than $100 depending on what the gear is.