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Dr. Rob
11-20-2002, 06:05 AM
My name is Bond...James Bond.

And everybody here knows, that the REAL star of the show was Q, Head Engineer of Q-Division.

Man, if MacGyver or the A-Team are not available, anyone from Q-Div can have a job at my shop. An over/under water Lotus Esprit- I want one. That's even better than Knight Rider's KITT that can fly sometimes. (Q)uestion is, do those gadgets really work? We all saw the Lotus underwater. And we know that the Aston DB5's were in fact equiped with many of the finesses shown in the films: Ejector seat, spinner hubs, bullet shield, etc. (note, there were two cars made. One lived in England, the other in Canada. One of them is now stolen. I didn't do it.)
What about the other stuff? The circular-saw Rolex, for example. I don't see (Q)uite how they made it spin. Or if there is such thing as a motor strong enough to make it work in reality.
How about those spy-size diving air tubes Sean Connery had? About the size of a small CO2 cartridge, they could not hold much air. Or?
Remember the car/airplane from Louisiana? There was such a thing, produced in limited numbers in the mid-1970's.
I was at ol' Scaramanga's place in Thailand last year. But darn it, there was no Superduper laser canon atop the cliff. (Cool island, though.)

What other fun toys has he had, Commander B.? Any favorites?
Many of you are into guns. It seems ol' James spends a lot of time carrying attache cases full of sniper rifle parts, which assemble like Lego into a kickass assassin kit. Is it possible to retain any accuracy in a disassemblable rifle?

Just wondering...
Doc

Ragarsed Raglan
11-20-2002, 11:51 AM
The one I liked best, and I can't remember the film it was used in ('round about 1966/67), was the BSA Lightning motorcycle with the rocket firing tubes mounted in the fairing ~ just the job for getting through the rush hour traffic!

I did work with a guy who in his prior job worked at Lotus, he had bought one of the amphibious Esprits - I think he said they made about 4 of them. The 'in joke' is Lotii (plural of Lotus??) leak like sieves. We have one guy who has a current Lotus that has to park it in the workshop whenever it rains! So, the scene where he drives up the beach and throws the fish out is one helluva p*ss take!!!!

RR

bdarin
11-20-2002, 12:54 PM
It's just a movie. Nothing works, all special effects. Be cool if it did, though. I like the metal-cutting laser in the wristwatch thing. And I wouldn't mind a rocket launching pen.

Dr. Rob
11-20-2002, 01:12 PM
I don't agree entirely...Of course, special effects are used throughout. But in order for the film to be made, some things have to at least function. The (Q)uestion is how.

Rocket-launching pen? Sure, you can make one. Just use those model rocket engines; they're available in a variety of sizes.

Tibertus
11-20-2002, 01:12 PM
Dr Rob I don't think I know of anyone that owns a Land Rover or other British made vehicle that isn't on a first name very personal relationship with their mechanic. I have a friend that has two jaguars, that way he can have one on the road. In other words one with the mechanic (a close personal friend of his now) and the other on the road until its turn in the shop. Are they cool vehicles? HECK YES the UK does make great vehicles would I want to do the Bond stuff with them? as long as my mechanic was with me. E channel had a special on the women of Bond, and in the end they all said "Oh James" in their sexist voices, they also had John Cleese say it, it was really funny.

docsteve66
11-20-2002, 04:20 PM
Tiber: I agree re Jaguars. Wife loves them. She owns them, I don't. She refuses to take my advice which is : Don't drive further than you are willing to walk back. But I admit they don't leave her at the side of the road. She had a !974 V12. I dropped a valve seat 600 miles from home on thanksgiving week end 1978. No one would work on it. I offered to drop a chevy in it. One of few times wife ever cried. Said I want to get it home then decide waht to do. The engine poured water through it. trouble was on right side, fout carburators. Pulledthe plugs (6) removed the guts from the carbs on right side, re-routed vac for brakes, filled it with Barrs leak. DRove it home. Slow to get up to speed but would do speed limit in time. She agreed to do the dirty work if I would help. Next couple years I was introduced as the man whose wife overhauled her..... . She did fine job. Replaced three cylinders, pistons etc, head was penetrated by a valve turned side ways. But the damn thing brought us home. She learned things like: chevy valve seals are same as Jag, call dealer for pricethen shop. The current jaguar broke a door handle- poor design at factory. a piece of pot metal used as a bell crank. Dealer says 250 Dollars plus and three weeks to deliver. web did it half price and two days.

Bond is a fool to drive british when he depends on it starting. But he is fun to watch.

The one that gets me- and all movies do it- is the hand held gun that picks the victim up and blows him against the wall. The gun being held by a 100 lb girl or 50 lb kid. Laws of nature don't allow such shennigans.

And how did superman jump from a window sill with enough force to dive a mile deep into eath and not shove the window sill into next year.

And how did the invisible man see if the light passed right through his eye balls?

and most impossible of all!!!!!!! how did Twiggy become a sex object. I don't see how they did that with special effects.

Geeeze.

Oso
11-20-2002, 05:13 PM
I had a car with those dad-gummed SU carbs on it, two of them, and they hadda be synched. Moving pistons, little screw-in damper pistons with ATF down the hole, much bad language.

I think there is a little known fact that Brit cars were designed by consultants to the Union of British Housewives. The designs were then shared out among the car companies on a bid basis.

They were designed so that the wife would know where hubbykins was all Sat afternoon. For sure he would be working on the car!

JDF
11-20-2002, 05:24 PM
In "Die Another Die", both the Aston Martin and the Jaguar have had the stock drivetrains removed, and converted to all wheel drive using 335 HP Ford 302 crate motors, auto trannys, and parts from a 4x4 Explorer front end. Apparently there will be a big chase scene on ice, and they needed the all wheel drive for traction. One of the big car magazines had an article on it this month. The small block looked like it belonged there.

Thrud
11-20-2002, 09:12 PM
Dr. Rob
You do realise that Dr.Bob (of muppet fame) is much better handle?

Let me just say this - if they were willing to retire the SR-71's, then they have something a hell of a lot better.

If it can be dreamed, it can be built - if you have the time and money. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

msrm
11-20-2002, 09:23 PM
Rocket launching pen: FLIGHT CREW SURVIVAL
KITS are equipped with a rocket assisted
pen gun flare. The device was developed to shoot through jungle canopy. They will kill if you are hit at close range. 22 Caliber
pen or zip guns are similar to a rocket
launching pen.
What kind of tools could we build if we
didn't waste energy on making the government
contractors rich? I'm not a liberal dove
either. I just wonder if Eisenhower was
right about the military-industrial complex.
I saw some of it when I was in the ARMY.

Mcostello
11-20-2002, 10:10 PM
Didn't Bronson have a take apart buffalo gun that fit in a suitcase. Don't know name of movie. Seems he used it for long range sniping with NO sight in shots no less. Barrell screwed in and all that.

Dr. Rob
11-21-2002, 01:55 AM
Thrud, I'm not familiar with Dr. Bob on the Muppets; I stopped watching the show some years ago...Dr. Rob is a nickname I picked up years ago as a construction worker, for my quasiscientific approach to everything. The name was cemented when I bought a new car; a Mercedes-Benz 280E Ambulance complete with stripes, stretcher and laughing gas nozzle.

Docsteve, it is the same way with actors running around with UZIs with a one-hand grip and full auto fire...

docsteve66
11-21-2002, 09:06 AM
Or firing a .50 cal from the hip!

Funny one to me is some where I saw a guy hold a pistol sideways (rotated 90 degrees), for some reason. THen every one was doing it!

We learn from movies and TV. I have watched maybe 30 minutes since 9/11 so i am no longer a judge with knowledge. But I saw TV robbers that would have been wasted years ago. Now I guess (from news papers) that the robbers and the robbee, having seen the same TV shows, are robbed and killed like on tv, instead of how the real world would act if tv did not show them how to act and if lawmakers did not pass laws to make it neccessary to act like on tv. Confusing?
Steve

Ragarsed Raglan
11-21-2002, 10:58 AM
Steve,

Your getting real close to my view of how TV has brainwashed the viewing world, the legislation on fuel tanks in vehicles is one typical area. Everone EXPECTS a crashed car to explode into a fireball (they've seen it happen so many times on TV!), so legislation has followed to make tanks more crash worthy. The truth is that fuel fires were a very small part of post vehicle collision effect. Don't get me wrong ~ I do agree that fire safety is an issue, but there has been an imbalance due to the effect of Film and TV.

The other thing I've noticed, especially in the US, is that when attending a business meeting the chairman will, more often than not, ape the chat show hosts dialogue ...." and at this point I'd like to bring Al into the conversation to see what his views are on the greerolater throggle pin issue"....

That's all for now folks'

RR

jfsmith
11-21-2002, 05:26 PM
James Bond in real life would be well beyond mandatory retirement in the English service.
I think Q's budget actually exceeds the gross national income of England, but he does come up with some really great toys.

So who will be the next James Bond? Will he finally married Moneypenny?

grannygear
11-21-2002, 11:37 PM
Regarding the reason that the street-smart cool guys turn their pistols 90 degress, a friend of mine tells me: when you're doing a drive-by shooting, you don't want the recoil of the pistol jerking your hand up, and therefore out of the target line. You want the recoil to jerk your arm horizontally, and therefore in range with the next victim. Yuck.

Favorite Bond toy - Gotta be the jetpack, from which one? Goldfinger?

Let us not forget to tip our hats to James Coburn, aka Derek Flint, who brought us the wristwatch with the little extending paddle arms, to awaken our hero from his self-induced trance in "In Like Flint". RIP

grannygear
11-21-2002, 11:42 PM
Oops, almost forgot the one toy I would have above all others:

In "Diamonds Are Forever", Q is wandering around a Vegas casino, testing his magnetic transducer ring. It allows him to stop the spinning slot machine wheels at just the precise moment, so he works his way down the row, hitting jackpot after jackpot after jackpot...

Who wouldn't want one?

Thrud
11-21-2002, 11:52 PM
Dr. Rob
I miss the muppets - a sick twisted show. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Steve
I can fire a .50 BMG (single shot) from the hip - I r a 400Lb. Gorilla! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif I have fired full auto .22 Rimfire, .308, .223, .45ACP & 9mm (Thompson snail drum & Mac 10's with mufflers. All perfect for gophers, BTW.

The thing I like about the pukes firing the gun sideways is they get hot, sharp brass in the head. I have seen 5.56mm (.223) cases ejected and stuck into a 2x4 15 feet away...

Come to think about it, the Desert Eagle .50AE's I shot threw the brass in my forehead too - I'll take a good revolver any day over that junk.

docsteve66
11-22-2002, 01:06 PM
Thrud: I guess we could fire a 16 incher from the hip if we held on and went with the recoil http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif. I was thinking of a old John Wayne where he shot a 50 cal full auto. Lots of the young marines tried grabbing a fifty and they suddenly knew the re was no way they could fire it and hit a target. Too damn much TV/movie education. Saw one where a man fired his magazines in a BAR, ran out of ammo and , using the barrel, devastated the rest of foe. Shucks, one magazine makes the barrel so hot it will blister you. Been there.
REvolver vs auto? I carried a .45 revolver for years, as a civilian in combat zones. Auto is a two handed weapon for first shot, and if a misfire happens. For defense there is no beating a revolver. For assualts, I think i would want a 45 auto. why does the USA think a 38 will stop men today when they had to order 45s back in 1900 to stop little men? Power- ha- we require jacketed ammo, more power just makes the bellet go through the man. Whats left over when the bullets exits is of no use.
On top of that I am left handed, so the brass tends to hit me. Another movie deal- how many nice revolvers are ruined by men "flipping" the cylinder closed? springs the crane. I went through a short course at FBI academy at USMC base Quantico Va. Damn near ever revolverthe FBI had for traing was sprung (spranged? springed? bent? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif).

Prettist shot I ever saw, Danang VietNam, we were penned in, a group of Marines was sent to provide protection, accross the river was a sniper (I guess you would call him that). Little VietNamese would appear on a balcony, then later a shot would arrive. The USMC set up a tripod mounted 50, clicked elevation, azimuth wait hours. then one tickle of the trigger and no more shots. A Frenchman was the shooter, the VietNamese was the spotter.

Granny gear: I guess every craft has its little secrets, drive by shoooters also? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Reason I snicker at the 90 degree thing is that a pistol, if used at most any distance, has a trajectory that launches the bullet up and gravity pulls it down. seems to me that side ways you will hit where you aint aiming to hit (left or right and LOW). Most self defense shooting, so far as I know, aims for the waist (belt buckle), cause a man is taller than he is wide (Thrud excepted). True story, if the FBI acadamey did not lie- back in the 30's one agent and one criminal were in a small office, both emptied their pistols. The only damage was done when they used the pistols as clubs and beat each other about the head and shoulders. Man gets excited in a gun fight. Been there too.

Another movie thing that tickles me. THe hero (or villian) takes his gun in hand, leaves his room to find the invader, steps into hall and searches the place. I had a two story house in Saigon, had visitors. Let me tell you- you know the bedroom was safe, the hall way is unknown. do you go left or right? every door you pass may contain a shooter, down the steps and the problem gets worse. The baddies exit- all of them? so you go back up stairs same problems. when is the place safe again? Makes for a restless night of sleep. Stay in the room? nope odds are one of them knows where you sleep and even how soundly you sleep. Best to not stay, head says go feets say stay. Head wins, but belly is in middle and afterwards you up chuck. Damn sure not like the movies. nuff thinking about the good old days,
Steve
PS. I was in mid thirties then. married and had kid after that. Changed my out look. became more careful and thats the way to get hurt, so I came back hone to states. Went in RVN in 1962, last trip was in dec 1970.

Thrud
11-23-2002, 12:43 AM
Steve
I lost a few friends in Nam, some lost their minds. The dumber they were the better they handled it - except for the cold blooded scary ones...

Glad you made it out in one piece, brother. After the way the American people treated their vets, I am surprised we did not have a lot more DD's and vets end up in Canada. I don't blame either group for bugging out.

Happy Thanksgiving?

I heard an interview with an American tribal chief today. Although most Americans look at it as a day of celebrations of the Pilgrims friendship with the Indians, this particular Chief says it is a national day of mourning for all Indians - thanks for the smallpox, syphilus, stealing their land, and lying and cheating them.

My question is this: Is this the general view of Native Americans?

Dr. Rob
11-23-2002, 09:26 AM
Don't know, Thrud. But the guy has a point. Us Whiteys sure didn't do them many favors, none that they asked for anyway. Sure, we had medicine and cures for diseases (which they didn't have before we gave it to them) guns (which they didn't need before we killed all the buffalo) cars (which they didn't need before we put them on faraway reservations) and economic support (which they didn't need until we introduced money and put them out of the integrated economically whitey-based business and employment social loop).
I don't know man. Perhaps it's a thing better left to the elders.

Why has James Bond never ridden horses with the Natives and worn buckskins instead of tuxedos? He's been everywhere else!

Thrud
11-23-2002, 11:08 AM
Steve
Thinking about your comment about Hollyrude's depiction of firarms I remebered a classic faux pas.

Remember the movie "Predator" - some wrestler is packing a GE 5.56mm minigun with a backpack of ammo. He mows down a jungle, chewing every tree, plant, bug, you name it up with about a two minute burst of fire. Two problems with that.

1) He could not have had more than 2k rnds in the backpack. The cyclic rate is 8,000 rnds/min.

2) I have seen one mounted on a Quad ATV with a little fat guy (a mere whisp of a fellow at 320Lbs.) - a touch of the button nearly flipped the whole works over backwards (about 170 rounds).

I don't care if he if the Hulk himself, you cannot carry one and shoot it.

Probably why tripods for .50's weigh nearly 200 Lbs and they still sandbag them.

GE (washing machine div.) also makes the .50BMG gattling gun (8,000 rnd/m). I would love to go gopher hunting with one of those babies and 1/2 a millon rounds! BoYah Grandma!, BoYah! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Dr. Rob
11-23-2002, 12:50 PM
Aw, c'mon, Thrud...That ain't right. I seen Rambone handlin' one of them .50's like it was a hockey stick. They don't weigh nothin'. Besides, maybe the cameraman had some extra ammo too.

docsteve66
11-23-2002, 03:12 PM
I apologize to any VietVet if i left the impression that I served in the military during my time in VietNam. I was civilian all the way. Korea was my military war. ^ years USMC, starting in 1949. The real vet of VietNam got raw deals for the most part.

Indians? Visit the "blackfoot museum" and read what they have to say about indian life before the whites- They lived hand to mouth, moved to follow the game, dogs and women hauled the loads. Men hunted and still they starved, no warfare between tribes because they had no spare time. Then came the spainish and the horse. Things improved and the hey day of the indian (plains indians at least) came.

The Indian can remember his wrongs (and we did them wrong in many ways), partialy because it was recent (I knew an indian in Norhtern Calif whose father had killed miners and dumped the gold onto the ground- the indians wanted the leather goods- saddles, bags, tools- so I was told), partialy becasue, for some reason, we whties have decided to feel guilty about many things- including indian affairs. The indian knows very little of his ancestory becasue the had no way to write. Most of what they think they know comes from the white mans recollection.
Every man must live in his own time and do the best he can. I am weary of hearing of the transgressions of my ancestors. If the people who claim to be held back had/have taken advantage of THEIR opportunities, the special laws made to get them ahead I could feel sympathy at least. But my mother in law taught at pine ridge south dakota. I have met indians(in one case at a laundrymat where we were just talking (some indians and I) and the subject of teachers came up. They spoke of the lady as fine person before they knew i knew her. As they said, some went off the reservation and did well, some stayed on the reseravtion and did "pore" and some stayed on the reservation and did well by pointing to the others and how "pore" they had done (Russell Means name plus others were examples).


I know many will disagree with me. Just tell me how YOU hurt another and I will gladly help you figure out a way to correct your mistake. I have met very few persons who claim to have actualy harmed another person because of race etc. Maybe they have not HELPED a person because of race etc. But I know of very few persons who can say honestly " I had help in the form of time or money and it was refused" . I know lots who would help if they could run the world the way they want to run it- there by becomming powerful with no effort.

Maybe USA problem is that we have insisted the world do things our way, when in fact we shold have minded our own business. The path to hell is paved with good intent.
Steve

4lb.Nevada
11-25-2002, 11:34 PM
Well, I drop out of the mix for a 72 hour shift and boy did this thread take a few turns and twists.. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//confused.gif... This link will lead you to a amphibious Lambrogini http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif I think that even "Q" might be impressed . the guy who designed this sounds like he might be a derect desentant to " Q" ...He's even British.
Charles


http://www.members.tripod.com/floatingcars

Dr. Rob
11-26-2002, 04:36 AM
I want one!!

...but shudder to think how many generous offers he has politely declined.

gizmo2
11-26-2002, 08:53 PM
My favorite TV/movie gun stuff 1. Silencers on revolvers that go 'pfft' when shot. 2. Guns that get thrown away when they go click, not boom.
I worked on a 'spy' gun once. It was issued to the female agents during WWII, an H&R .32 revolver with a particularly thick and heavy grip frame. Their intelligence gathering was sometimes 'under cover' work, and a gentle love tap with the butt of that revolver was generally preferable to making alot of noise to affect their get-away. The real world is so much more interesting than Hollywood's version, don't you think?

docsteve66
11-26-2002, 11:23 PM
TV/movies? Oldest girl (stands 5' 2" today) wnated to stay home alone when she was maybe 12 years old. We lived way out in the country. Wanted a gun. We talked, I advised a shot gun. I have a model 12 pump that fires when the trigger is down and pump goes forward. No plgs in tube. showed her how i did it rapid fire. Now her turn. she had CONFIDENCE! Took her first shot from the hip at a wall of the corn crib (real 1" siding of rough cypress, very old. Gun jerked out of her hands, fell well to her rear, big hole in wall. Such big eyes as you have never seen. Says I " just like the movies?" says she " it jumped right out of my hands, and I was holding it tight". Then she fired the revolver, my hands over hers. she held it but the gun went way up. She still watches tv. The guns are comedy for her. No kick with tv guns, ,men stand behind a sheet rock wall for protection or a wooden door. She remembers the BIG hole a real shot makes.

And they give the "gun savvy" man on tv an empty pistol and he tries to fire it. A loaded one is heavy and feels differnt. Way different!

Then there was Audie Murphy who was challenged to a "quick draw contest" by some actor who looked like a REAL hero. Story says Murphy agreed on condition they used real ammo, just keep it realistic. Looked like a kid, could not act I guess, but i bet his movies had a good technical man concerning fire arms and how men act under fire.

Tibertus
11-27-2002, 01:31 PM
Well, I went to see Die another day on opening night. Usually when I go I go with a group of guys (wife calls us the "usual gang of idiots") and for some reason we don't mind that. Anyway, we have one rule JUST ENJOY THE MOVIE, we don't sit there and go "you know in deep space you can't use a plasma thruster without a two percent hydrogen mix". I do sit there and worry about the people watching the movie that think wow is this cool can't wait to try it out myself (future darwin award winners most of them). Like Jeff Foxworthy says, A Rednecks last words are "You'all watch this". It was a good movie because I didn't look for Shakespear, or for the laws of common sense or phyics to be followed I was only looking for entertainment. I thought I noticed the cars were Ford T-Birds this time. Halley Barre (spelling?) was great and I've heard they are going to make another movie with her as the star and main spy, might be cool.

Tuckerfan
11-27-2002, 01:59 PM
To get back to the subject of the thread for a moment, Starlog magazine periodically (usually about the time a Bond movie comes out) publishes a special issue dedicated to Bond with photos and detailed line drawings of many of his more famous gizmos. A clever fellow could, no doubt use those to make his own working replicas of some of Bond's more practical gear. Of course, one might want to check the legality of doing so with some of the items.

Dr. Rob
11-27-2002, 02:16 PM
What?! Right on! Gimme one!

Thrud
11-27-2002, 03:26 PM
4lb.Nevada:
Blasphemy! A Countach is made for pavement, not water - Free Willy, Free Willy! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Tuckerfan
11-27-2002, 05:54 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dr. Rob:
What?! Right on! Gimme one! </font>
They have a website: http://www.starlog.com/ and they do have back issues for sale. If you can't find ones that you want for sale there, you can always check ebay.

Jaymo
11-28-2002, 02:30 AM
Yes, there are takedown sniper rifles that fit in their own "suitcase". Very expensive guns.
Guns won't fire accurately when fired sideways. Sights aren't regulated for that.
Gun will still kick upward due to recoil and muzzle climb.

"Why did the 'ganksta' hold his pistol sideways?"
"That's the way it came out of the box."

docsteve66
11-28-2002, 04:04 PM
Tibertus: In no way do I fail to enjoy the stories and things the movies/tv do. I love Science fiction (hard core stuff) and have no problems "suspending disbelief". Problem is, for so many, they have learned all they "KNOW" from TV.
"Its the things you KNOW, that ain't so that gets you into trouble"

Steve

Thrud
11-29-2002, 12:33 AM
Jaymo:
HK used to sell an attache case for their subs - the machine pistol could be fired while it was carried serepticously. It was used mostly by protection agencies (FBI, CIA, Secret Service, etc.)

Last one I seen advertised was around 7,000 US and a class 3 was required to purchase.

Tibertus
11-29-2002, 06:00 PM
Doc

Yeah, I know its sad to see how so many kids are learning how to live life from tv. There being no other coherent adults around to show them otherwise. Like I said those are the people that I worry about when I'm watching a movie like that.

So, what goes. clop clop bang, clop clop bang? An Amish drive by shooting.

Talk to you later... Happy Holidays

Spin Doctor
11-30-2002, 10:15 AM
The wrestler from Predator is the Honorable Govenor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura. Him and his wife were the only people with the guts to walk out of the Fritz Mondale love-in( AKA the Pual Wellstone memorial service ).

4lb.Nevada
12-03-2002, 10:20 AM
Thrud said:
"4lb.Nevada:
Blasphemy! A Countach is made for pavement, not water - Free Willy, Free Willy! "
Hey Thrud, if it makes yu feel any better, I found it while I was looking for the perfect amphibious assult vechical to restore. I want to have a machine that for one brief shineing moment, be able to go ANYWHERE. Sadly, my wife has told me that if I spend money on something like a tank or weasel, I better make sure that it has sleeping quarters provided http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif
I figure that I could drive such a machine maybe one or two nights a year, almost have my self convinced... I have a Very warm sleeping bag... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif