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Alistair Hosie
11-29-2002, 06:44 PM
When I look at the terrible need children and young people have to be noticed perhaps loved.Whatever happened to being yourself as an individual.So many kids today are wearing all this designer crap their heads are twisted with having to feel part of something I really feel sorry for some of them .The designer industry is putting too much pressure on people actually not just kids.so many people having to feel as if they stand out and be admired wearing a sign of their wealth by their clothing labels.I dress like a hobo all day long (if I can get away with it)don't get me wrong I like to be clean. Naturally if I go somewhere important I dress up but I am not worried sick if this don't match that.What in gods name have we done to our kids today? why do they not feel loved for who thay are without feeling they have to be perfect.
I worked many years ago in a laboratory as a young man I was still learning the boss (not the owner) made me feel like I was nothing for three years he would never encourage me everything was to his displeasure .He constantly reminded me that I was just a whisper from being shown the door.I lived those years very unhappy .Not with him strangely enough with myself because I felt there must have been some truth in what he was saying.One day I just snapped the constant shouting and talking down to me came to an end I walked out of the door half way through the day and with god's help I went home got changed and went to look for other employment.On my way to the dental depot which was the best place to look for the kind of work I was empoyed in I passed the Dental Hospital for some strange reason I went in and left my name and address the young girl wrote it down and I made my way out of the door and down the street towards the depot she ran after me and asked me if I would like to study orthodontics asthere was a full time paid course for two years (one position left to fill)I said I did and was offered a training position right away.The guy who was in charge of the lab was a great man and always taught me so much everything I did he would take hold of it and run next door loudly exclaiming that I was a genius look look he said at what the new boy has done and him only just started with us.He taught me that we need to constantly encourage and love our children .I have never forgotten his kindness to me which went on day after day for a further two years which I was there.God gives us wonderful oportunities everyday to do the right thing when confronted by something which is blatantly wrong we should say so and if we have the oportunity to go that extra little bit to encourage and praise some young person telling them what a wonderfull and special person they are we should do it it makes such a difference to them to be praised even if it is for a very little thing. Every time I have the oportunity I tell my kids how special they are in what they are doing and how crazy I am about them.Alistair

gizmo2
11-29-2002, 09:32 PM
It's dicey work to be a kid these days. My boy is 15, and it's really fun to see him grow and take stock in himself. He fights to fit in, then has to fight with what he's compromised. Then he comes to a middle ground somewhere between peer and self acceptance. What a great kid!

I have a good boss now, probably my best ever. It is too easy to discount the value of a happy work life for a few extra pieces of silver. Man, I have had some stinkers over the years! I'd rather be 'financially challenged' than work for a turd. But it's a hard-learned lesson, eh?

Alistair Hosie
11-30-2002, 06:58 AM
Gizmo your so right some schoolteachers and employers ought to realise that the carrot is more productive than the stick.A child or employee will work twice as hard and be twice as loyal and be twice as happy.
A happy atmosphere at work is also better for the bosses own spiritual well being creating an atmosphere more like a small family were the employees look forward to beoing there with their friends . Alistair

Tibertus
11-30-2002, 10:27 AM
Alastair and Gizmo.

I worked for a company once as a temp. I was hired to work in another division for some guy I never met. People came up to congratulate me not so much for getting a real job but because I was lucky to work for this guy (he was the plant manager). Two people that made the most fuss about my good fortune told me "you are so lucky to work for ____, I worked for him and loved it and would work for him again. As a matter of fact he even wrote me up a few times, and I would still love to work for him". High praise indeed. I went to that division and there was a lot of complaining about this guy, he was just moved over a few months earlier and found that the old boss was a *****. The employees could go into his office and cry and complain about anything and everything and this boss would listen and comisirate with them. Needless to say that made it tough on the boss i worked for because he expected them to act like adults. One of their complaints was if they were late getting back from luck due to traffic, he actually expected them to stay late to make up the time!!! (how cruel). "The old boss didn't make us do that". Anyway, I enjoyed working for him, he was the classic boss. I made a big mistake once, it was just dumb new guy bad luck and some stupidity. The boss came over and spoke to me (I had already let him know I made the mistake) this talked lasted for twenty minutes. He walked away and I knew where I had screwed up, what it cost the company and what it would take to make it up (on my part). I completely understood where I stood and what it was going to take, then he walked away. Later that day I realized "hey, he chewed my ass", later on I found out his real great strength as a leader HE FORGAVE PEOPLE THAT MAKE HONEST MISTAKES, THEN HE FORGETS IT. Sorry about the capital letters I really admired him and respected him greatly. Like you've said I'ver worked for the screemers and other jerks. Usually they don't want you to outshine them and would rather you were miserable rather than be happy. It surprises me that it takes so little for someone to make someones day. There is a story about a person riding in a New York cab with an imigrant driver. They guy gets to his location and thanks the driver, pays and tips him and says "thank you sir" to the cabbie. The cabbie hopped out and opened the door for him. The guy asks "why did you get the door for me", the cabbie says "I've been driving this cab for X years (I don't remember how many was said) and you're the first person to call me sir".
What you say and do makes a difference. If you want to make the world a better place it starts with you (us). Before we complain about someone's actions we need to make sure were not part of the problem and not worse than they are. I always try to walk in their shoes. I also agree that kids have it really tough today, this fitting in is crazy now days. Best of luck to you parents these days.

Thrud
11-30-2002, 08:13 PM
Alistair

I have never been a father, but have had to deal with both my sisters children. Of the five only 2 had their father around for anly length of time (and him and his friend molested them). I did what I could to help them and prove that not all men are bastards (by example).

I am proud to say my oldest nephew was recently made the Manager of a large retail drugstore. The youngest boy was skipped two grades - in the prior year he had an "f" average. The oldest girl is determined to be a Power Engineer. The youngest, a sweet little girl is still coping with her horrible ordeal. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//cool.gif

The oldest boy of the four plans "doing" this or that, but does even less now that he has a survivors pension from his dead father's estate. He is the one I am worried about - going nowhere fast. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//confused.gif

Alistair Hosie
11-30-2002, 08:29 PM
Dave you would make a great father I know that.Still you would make a great uncle I know that too as you have made us all a great friend.best regards Alistair

msrm
12-02-2002, 04:38 AM
My first real boss had a lot to teach but
he was moody a lot. He wouldn't talk for
days. It got old but I respect him for de-
manding the best for his customers. I learned a lot. The boss that hired me at my
present job just retired. He was very in-
telligent he had a lot insight. I really
respected him he would give you a job and let
you do it. I made a major mistake and all he
said was fix it. He knew I knew I had really
blown it(the time I wasted was the most serious matter)but he didn't berate me. If
he had I wouldn't have learned the lesson of
PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAIL!!!! I also realized that screaiming and yelling usually
won't help the situation.

Tel
12-02-2002, 06:53 AM
That's a sad story indeed Dave, just lucky you were around to help pick up the pieces - hope it goes well with them.

Alistair Hosie
12-02-2002, 06:58 PM
Dave I don't usually come across a situation were I cannot feel there is some good in a human being but people who do these things to children are the scum of the earth the don't deserve to be released out into the normal comunity for the rest of their natural lives.
We have a pair here called Brady and Hyndley she died last week you would be amazed at the number of people who called for her release, ( he seemingly doesn't want freedom).
She fought for her feedom from the day she was imprisoned one lie after another for years. Not only did they sexually abuse their young victims before murdering them and burying their little bodies out on the moors in shallow graves they taped the childrens screams for mercy as they were being tortured so the sicko's could play it back later for their own sexual gratification .
And there were people who felt she had been in prison long enough and she should be released. What are they thinking?. Alistair

Paul H
12-02-2002, 07:51 PM
I think one of the biggest problems with parents these days is their drive to have it all, big house, new car, nice clothes, etc. Trouble is, they don't realize that what their kids really need is as much time as possible with their parents. I suppose I was a product of that as well, my dad worked alot of hours, he was self employed, and built a very sucessful business, the afforded his family everything they could ask for, and more. Honestly kids don't know the difference between the nicest neighborhoods and not, but they do remember later how many times dad took them out fishing and hunting, as those times mean the most. I think I went fishing with my dad less then 1/2 dozen times in my life. I get out at least that many times with the hole family a year.

My wife and I are fortunate to be able to afford a house on one salary, and my wife has stayed home to raise the kids. I work 40 hours a week, put in some overtime when necessary, but would much rather be home with my kids, then hanging out at work, to appear that I'm putting in lots of work.

I've been very fortunate in life to work for some great bosses. Most fortunate was building a land speed record vehicle, ie streamliner for the salt flats with a friend of a friend. I was out of work after graduating from engineering school, and he suggested we build a new car together. It started with me coming over to do maintenance work on his existing car, then we started work on the new car. He gave me keys to the shop, I'd show up at 8-9, he'd get back from his job around 4, and we'd work til 10-11 every night, and I'd spend most weekends there as well. His wife was a great cook, and I guess you could say I did the work for food thing.

I think the 4 months I spent in the shop was more informative then the 4+ years in college. I learned that things get made by determination and hard work. He was a high school drop out, and of modest means. By determination and begging and borrowing he got done what needed to get done. His former neighbor would stop by the shop occasionally, and out of that, I got my first job. The car is currently the fastest 5 liter naturally aspirated vehicle on earth at 304 mph two way average.

I can relate to the clothing thing, most of my clothing is 10 years old, and what I wore to high school and college.

Anyhow, yes, encouraging words mean so much, and our so easy to give!

jfsmith
12-02-2002, 11:31 PM
My son is 27 and wants to just slide thru life. He could have gone to West Point, with out the political appointment, he turned it down. He sort of works as an electrician. I drive old cars that are only being kept alive my hard work and sweat, after I have them a year or two, I give to charity.
My son drives a 1999 Luxuy equipted Thunderbird, which he has junked up. At 27 he is divorced from a the wicked witch of the north and has two kids to support.
I have 8 years of college, served in the Army, developed a good career, had all of the right years of work in the right place and got to retire early. My son will have to work the rest of his life.

I hate too say this He's not too bright. His values are in not good, he keeps getting into bad relationships, spends lots on beer. I asked him once to grind out a knife. I was not expecting fine piece of work, just a basic utility knife. He has ground out the shape. And it's been sitting in the place for two years.
Once he took a carburator apart, down to the last nut and bolt, to clean it and couldn't remember how to get back together. I purchased him the factory book. He threw the carburator away and bought a new one. If he had asked, I would have told him how to clean the carb, it isn't that hard, and you don't take it all apart.

Where are values these days? I don't know. I am trying to preserve some of the things that we have lost in the past 50 years in many things that were trades and artforms in this country.

Off my soap box,

Jerry

chief
12-03-2002, 04:04 AM
Some kids are just born stupid and go down hill from there. When I was on active duty I would see the good and bad from all over america and all backgrounds most kids eventually realize what is required of them to get through life, it just takes a little longer.
We have all run into these eople who just don't get it. My neighbor Says "boy,Jim you must be really sucessful because you have this cool shop,a 35 year old motorcycle and and a 67 camaro SS 396 that all look like new." It doesn't dawn on him that in high school I took care of my camaro while he wrapped his mustang around a pole or that I restored my motorcycle rather than running through four different bikes like he did. To take care or fix of something is just beyond this guy, got a flat, buy a new tire, he breaks the remote,he gets a new tv. All he sees is that somehow I scammed the system.

hms50
12-03-2002, 07:59 AM
Thrud, and all,
At the risk of sounding like a liberal arts type, I'm going to comment on the topic of this thread. As a school teacher, I've too often seen the human wreckage caused by child abuse. Although I have a background in Psychology, I never learned anything in my studies as valuable as what I read in a fairly new book titled,"TRAUMA AND RECOVERY". It contains the only explanation of "survivor guilt" that makes sense to me. To help somone, you don't have to be a shrink, but it sure helps to understand the responce the human mind has made to the crisis that damaged it. It also helps to know what the steps in the healing process are.
My copy is loaned to somone who needs it right now, so I can't look up the author or the isbin #. It is a great book and well worth a read.
hms50

billr
12-03-2002, 08:01 AM
Alistair,

i have been reading and re-reading this post for a couple of days.

i have 4 kids. raising one of them myself. i couldn't agree with you more.

i have tried with all of them to teach them what little i know. mostly trade stuff. i have never had to look very far for a job when i wanted one. kids now seem to think that 'work' ocnsists mostly of playing computer games.

kid that lives with me is 16. i have had him for 6 years. he has a little brother 12 that wants to come live with us and has from the beginning. the mother sees the loss of a paycheck there andis resistant to the idea. the 12 year old is the most 'mechanical' of the bunch. 2 boys and 2 girls. girls can do a brake job, spark plugs, change oil, tires, etc. seems like stuff a person needs to know to me.

thank you for putting some ideas into words. sometimes i am not too articulate.

good post. good thoughts.
bill

hms50
12-03-2002, 09:07 AM
Chief, your post struck a cord with me! It seems like whenever someone sees my shop or restored bike or whatever I've just made or repaired, they say somthing like "Your so lucky to be able to do that!" I know what they realy mean, but it sounds as if they think my shop, tools and skills just happened, like the color of my eyes! I just bite my lip and nod and try not to say what I'm thinking. On the flip side, if I fix a friend's car they think I'm a wizard. If they take it to a garage and have it fixed, the mechanic is just doing his job and is over paid!

hms50

Tibertus
12-03-2002, 09:43 AM
Just got an e-mail from my sister telling me that one of my nephews at the ripe age of 25 either has colon cancer or a bleeding ulcer. This kids dad left when he was 8 and his step dad just gave him a roof over his head and the ocasional keep trying pep talk. Life wasn't easy as his two step brothers were living terrors to this intruder nephew of mine. I really admire this kid, he recently got his masters in math (on top of MS mechanical engineering). I was really proud of him getting his math degree as 5 out of 4 of our family ain't good with math (not that bad really). I asked him what was the first thing he was going to do with the newest degree. He said "take it back to my ninth grade teacher and shove it where the sun don't shine". Turns out she had told him in front of the whole class he was too stupid to be taught math. Well, has a degree and a goal!! can't ask much more than that. This kid worked his way through college nobody helped him at, and has a pretty good outlook on life. A modern day self made man. Also don't give up on kids these days. I have another nephew that thought every day was new years eve. In and out of county jail, finally has a girlfriend that gets pregnant with twins. This ner-do-well suddenly cared if the sun came up and is one of the hardest working and most devoted fathers I've seen. His father (my brother) NEVER gave up on this kid. Always there for him, always willing to help him out.... now the pay off two more grandkids and a honest hard working man and father in the family.

Peace

tonydacrow
12-03-2002, 10:10 AM
Hi, all.

Interesting thread. As a father myself, I know there is nothing more painful than a child who is screwing-up. Most of us would rather endure severe torture rather than watch one of our kids hurt. I remember watching my sons cry over a hard word from a frind or a crule joke at their expense. I wanted to die and I truely think it hurt me more than them. The hardest part was knowing that there was nothing I could do to help.

My boys are now 19 and 16. These are hard ages and they have had their share of trouble; but, I am amazed as they've grown at how polite, kind, spiritual and determined they are. (Disproves most of the theories of genetics if you ask me!)

Life is hard and any one mistake can cause mountains of pain. Through it all, 'though, attitude seems to make the most difference. I thank God every day for my boys and how fortunate I am that they have been sheltered from so much of the hate and pain that exists in this world...

docsteve66
12-03-2002, 03:15 PM
Think on this a moment: genetic changes come slowly. The kids today are same as the kids were a hundred years ago. It is society that has changed not the kids. Society can change damn near over night. We older folks have allowed, encouraged what ever, the kids to proceed on some strange paths. Look back over your shoulder, pick what you think is a lnad mark and then see where you are. You can't tell where a person is going until you measure from where they started. If you don't like where you see the kids going, try to get them to take a different fork in th road day by day. You cannot back up and take a differnt fork, you gotta take the next one that appears, Million forks a day appear. But kids gonna travel togehter

Steve

Tel
12-03-2002, 03:27 PM
The only thing unfair about the treatment that pair got was that youse had to pay for them to be fed and housed for all those years. Should'a just pegged the bastards out on an anthill somewhere


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Alistair Hosie:
Dave I don't usually come across a situation were I cannot feel there is some good in a human being but people who do these things to children are the scum of the earth the don't deserve to be released out into the normal comunity for the rest of their natural lives.
We have a pair here called Brady and Hyndley she died last week you would be amazed at the number of people who called for her release, ( he seemingly doesn't want freedom).
She fought for her feedom from the day she was imprisoned one lie after another for years. Not only did they sexually abuse their young victims before murdering them and burying their little bodies out on the moors in shallow graves they taped the childrens screams for mercy as they were being tortured so the sicko's could play it back later for their own sexual gratification .
And there were people who felt she had been in prison long enough and she should be released. What are they thinking?. Alistair</font>

Alistair Hosie
12-03-2002, 03:59 PM
BillR.
Take it easy my friend sounds to me as if your way ahead of some fathers,

Tel you get my vote I cannot stand to hear of anyone hurting children in this way.She lied to the police for years (very cunning )plenty of intelligent people were taken in by her and fought for her release.Said she didn't know were the rest of the poor little souls were buried kept the families in torture for years then a few years ago tried to strike a deal by finally revealing exactly were some of them were she was taken there by helicopter all the roads were blocked of some bones were recovered but not all the graves (after saying she new nothing for years)worse than animals in my opinion.As I say I am not a violent man but God it would take a lot if I were in there company not to swing for them both.I understand that as a God fearing man I should feel compassion but I an afraid to say in this case I really can't not that I have tried that hard .Alistair to his dear friends out there

docsteve66
12-03-2002, 05:23 PM
I guess I am out of step about the need for a death penalty. I think we should all have the right to decide how we want to die. when a person commits a crime so bad that they are not recoverable to the people they live among and must be killed i guess that all we can do. I think Life imprisonment is cruel and unjust punishemnt. I think it only right and just that the person to be executed signify, in concrete irrevocable terms the manner in which they wish to "pass on".

I figure the most concerete irevocable statement of how a person wishes to die is to see how he/she let others die.

So when a man rapes a woman and kills her let him loose in a prison, full of sadist and homosexuals and be raped until he assumes room temperature. Put his tally whacker in a pencil sharpener and no band aids allowed. When a person killls another is obvious to me that that person has decided how he would prefer to go. SEND him/Her on that route.
Ultimate Penalty for doing things to a child should be deferred as long as possible- start the punishment immediately but pro-long the final death as long as possible.

And I know all this is shameful but daily reports should be given--- for example "Joe doe, tore his vocal cords out screaming yesterday. It will probably take increased efforts to get the same decibels today. 20 convicted sadists standing by to do their best. Those sadist convicted have their ultimate sentences deferred on a day by day basis so long as they can gather the decibels and Joe DOe lives. The convicted Sadist, as reward for participating in this distasteful task are given the choice of dying as john Does Dies or as they decided Mr smith would die."

Peace and forgiveness friends.
Steve

PS: and the prosucuting officials should, if the wrong person be convicted and it can be shown that exculpuitory evidence of any sort was with held,, serve the remainder of that persons sentence no matter what it is.

jfsmith
12-03-2002, 07:02 PM
I think the attorney on the loosers side should also be in jail with the client. We'd have a whole lot less attorneys and a bunch more good judice.

Jerry

Tibertus
12-03-2002, 07:07 PM
I think the Chinese had that system of justice somewhere around the Ming dynasty. If you butchered someone you were drawn and quartered. Punishment fit the crime. Capital punishment had to be approved by higher court. If the higher court found that someone was executed unjustly the magistrate that sat on the case and ignored the evidence or did something illegal to convict would be subject to the same punishment.
Soon enough these toads you speak of are going to met the best judge there is, then justice will be dealt out. I believe in God just don't believe in religion. I do believe in Kharma, either way those folks are in for a ride.

Peace

Alistair Hosie
12-04-2002, 05:26 AM
The only problem with the death penalty as I see it is what happens when we get it wrong.We are discovering lots of cases recently here were the people have spent many years in jail because police were under too much pressure to convict.Only the other day a guy was released after twenty five years when D N A evidence showed he was innocent that cannot be seen to be right. After all not only has his life been ruined but the guilty guy has been free all those years .this poor guy protested his innocence all these years in fact he could have been freed twelve years ago if he had admitted it but refused.I am there fore not normally in favour of the death penalty unless the proof is irrefutable i e video evidence mass witnesses etc we have had lots of cases were the police have corrupted evidence to clear their own records and have sat back and allowed innocent people to go to jail for long periods.What should happen to them look at the Birmingham six a famous case were a movie (for the sins of the father) was made these police officers have never been charged they all walk free as happens time after time .Right and justice in my opinion must go hand in hand and be for all which I think you would agree with Alistair

Tel
12-04-2002, 07:42 AM
Yeah, you need to be 100% certain before you pull the plug, but there are a lot of cases where there is no doubt whatsoever & these offenders should be put down in as similar a manner as possible to how they dealt with their victims.

It is a FACT that 100% of exectuted criminals NEVER RE-OFFEND

docsteve66
12-04-2002, 01:08 PM
Alistair: No one puts pressure on the police to wrongly convict. The pressure is internal in their system. As some one paosted before on a differnt thread, "tell me how i will be measured, then I will tell you how I will proform" (paraphrased).
We killed lots more "viet cong" when we payed rewards for dead VC. Live men had to be proved VC, dead men were accepted. A short, ill considered program, that was terminated becasue the same VC came back for rewards- sort of like voting the dead.

The legal system stinks here and I suspect every where.
Steve

Alistair Hosie
12-04-2002, 02:57 PM
Tel
I agree with you we need to be careful.
Some cops here Steve have been up to no good as has been proven.Some of them (not all) the majority are good guys but some have admitted to falsifiying evicence and tampering with evidence I E putting something of the victims in the pocket of a suspected person they did not like.That cannot be a good thing imagine if it were a member of your family or mine it doesn't bear thinking about all these years.
Try and see the true movie called in the name of the father about the men who were locked up for IRA crimes and evidence was witheld from the defence for years (by the police)everything was done so she could not get access to it as it showed her clients to be innocent it is a shocking story the police who were corrupt were never brought to account for their misdoings regards Alistair

lynnl
12-04-2002, 03:46 PM
Yes, we've had too many of those situations here in the U.S. as well in the last several years where gross corruption within the law enforcement/prosecuting attorneys came to light. Numerically/proportionately the number is very small, no doubt. But the damage done, in terms of loss of confidence among the population at large can be devastating. The O.J. case is one prime example. Regardless of the evidence against him, past abuses opened the door for the defense to raise the shadow of a doubt about the purity of the evidence (to a jury that was eager to accept that line of reasoning). It's the adage about "one bad apple tainting the whole bunch". Unfortunately lost confidence/integrity can NEVER be fully regained. More recently the L.A. (Calif.) Rampart Police Division was exposed to be fabricating evidence. And within the last year or so a similar scandal came to light within the Dallas (TX) Police dept. Both of those involved widespread abuse.
Law enforcement MUST be above reproach! Society can tolerate nothing less, and should mete out the severest of penalties for shortcomings in this area. Not just for the immediate damage, but because of erosion of longterm confidence. There will always be corrupt individuals who rise to a position of power. But BY GOD they must be hammered severely when found!!!

docsteve66
12-04-2002, 05:44 PM
Right on Lynn. and do not limit it to law enforcement. Every Government worker, from the street cleaner to the president should, as old snake spit said, be above reproach.

Their personal lives are not a subject for critism. Barney Frank and Clinton should be given a sex allowance- its too expensive to pay a contractor, 100 million so they can kick back 100,000 to the lawmakers and still make a profit. Lets just give the politician his 100,000 and save the rest.

Jacksonville just sent several cops to prison for life because they had run a ring robbing dope dealers for years, but finally they killed a man for his pocket money (BIG pockets). That was finally serious enugh to make them rat on each other and conviction followed. We have (using Ricco act) cities that budget the money they will confiscate this year to buy things the city should buy. Id rather take my chances on carrying a large sum of money down therough section of town than carrying the same amount accross the country with the police knowing i had it. And with this new security bill, the government will know every time you with draw a large sum. all they haveto do is get to you before you spend it. It worries me, because I have never made a mortgage payment or car payment in my life. Always paid cash or check or for minor stuff credit card. Trip from credit union to slick sams used cars is gonna be dangerous. there is a cop on every corner- just to keep me safe becasue I am unarmed. I lie now but wait a few years.
Paranoid Steve http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Alistair Hosie
12-04-2002, 06:06 PM
I think it's fair to add that the good cops don't like these bad cops any more tham we do it gives them no pleasure to see this happen within their own ranks.What I would like to know is why are no charges brought against them here in U k for sending innocent guys to jail by fabricating these lies Alistair

docsteve66
12-04-2002, 06:23 PM
Alistair: Think it through. The good cops are not doing their jobs. If they can not see a criminal they associate with every day then how can they spot a random man on the sstreet? I suspect they avoid seeing the evidence until someone gets angry at the bad cop for taking their shift, or patting their girl friend then its vendetta time.

How can a cop kill a man for 50,000 cash, be broke and not have the co workers notice he is living beyond his means. The corruption goes high. The drug dealers complained about the Jacksonville cops taking drugs, planting drugs etc. Here in Florida (and in most states) the states attorney has the discretion to prosecute or not. If complaints are made, why not prosecute? There must be a reason. Cops like to make easy arrests, with minimal danger. So they get little old ladies for illegal parking parked right beside a car that had been stolen by a thief that stole several- he just drove them home and then away and stole another- too cheap to buy gas I guess. Anyway story goes thatthe little old lady fussed cause she got a ticket, and she knew the guy was a car thief. she did not want to get the thief arrested, just trying to embarrass the cops becasue they did not see what in fornt of them. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Its a wonderful system we have developed

Steve

Alistair Hosie
12-05-2002, 05:32 AM
Steve your are spot on the corruption goes very high.In my opinion the government are afraid of the police and don't like to ruffle feathers.There was a situation mostly in big cities, (London specially) were black people were taken into custody and beaten badly. Some people died in custody most of the people who died were black ten times more of them than white funnily how many fell down the stairs.
Not all were criminals perhaps they were making a fuss at being arrested .Police coroner was called and one guy was full of bruises and the coroner claimed he had been strangled.He stated that in no way did he die as a result of falling down the stairs. there was an investigation as always guess who did the investigation (the police authorities who always investigate themselves) as always a total whitewash. The government refused each time to get involved peosecution service came back each and every time saying no charges to answer.
The jails here are full of drugs authorities say that it is impossible to stamp out.Well well well we have in this world put a man on the moon many many years ago but cannot somehow meet this challenge too difficult.I reckon anybody after a momth in charge of a prison (with the proper will)any right minded and sensible person could stamp out drugs getting in.First of all no physical contact ewith prisoners and outsiders. All comunicatiion in seperate rooms, through a glass partition .
All prison and police officers themselves would be searched daily. Any found to be bringing them in drugs gets a very heafty sentence and loss of job pension and all property to be deemed to expensive to be suported by the wage he she earns confiscated and so on .That should do for a start your not going to get me to believe that when a police officer or prison officer earns £18 -20 thousand a year and comes across a situation were a guy is caught with a few hundred thousand in the back of his car he is not going to be tempted to take it and let the crooks go free that is just human nature I am not saying they would all do it but I think all would be tempted even I have to admit I would be tempted. Alistair

halfnut
12-05-2002, 10:17 AM
All,

This is quite a thread, have to comment a bit.

First I'll have to say that the 2 classes of people I trust the least are preachers and policemen, and they are whom one should be able to trust the most. I will add that I have known some very good honest preachers and policemen, but sadly their ranks are filled with some scoundrels.

Once heard it said that crime pays not for the criminal but for the justice system. Crook gets caught by a cop, then many others enter into the picture. Judges, lawyers, bailbondsmen, bailiffs, jailers, even the court stenographer all are making money off the system. When this criminal is sentenced to a short term of put on probation he is out in society again to do another crime. Justice system then has the oportunity to make some more money.

Most crimes are done by repeat offenders, and sometimes many times repeated. These people sure are a good source of income for the justice system.

I could tell some stories on preachers, my wife's ex is one, wouldn't trust him too far.

I am sure that we here could solve all of lifes woes and societies problems but the trouble is getting the rest of the world to agree with us.

Best we can do is to learn to walk uprightly ourselves and do what we can for God and our fellow man.

lynnl
12-05-2002, 11:29 AM
There is a book I've read (2 or 3 times in fact), that sheds a lot of light on many of these problems. It's "THE MASK OF SANITY", by Hervey Cleckley, a criminal psychologist.. Canadian as I recall. The basic subject is Psychopathy. While it does deal with criminals to some extent, the really enlightening point Cleckley makes is that the vast majority of psychopaths are NOT CRIMINALS. Unfortunately the very traits inherent to the psychopathic personality (perfect liars, total indifference to fellow humans, absolute absence of any conscience or compassionate emotions, etc.) make them very successfull in terms of advancements/promotions thru lying and manipulating others. ie. They're masters of deceit, and they permeate society EVEN IN POSITIONS OF THE HIGHEST RESPONSIBILITY. They are husbands and wives and Drs. and lawyers and teachers and preachers, and on and on... even elected officials (gasp!). Most, by far, are too clever to commit crimes, or at least one thay can be caught and convicted of. We all have met them, whether we recognized them as such or not.
I highly recommend that book to all. It should be required reading for all young people especially.

Alistair Hosie
12-05-2002, 12:19 PM
Halfnut my mother died recently from parkinsons and scenile dementia .She never committed a crime in her life the government said they couldn't afford to treat her /look after her.Although my father worked till the day he died and paid into the health service here.
Her house and contents were removed forcibly from her.
Everything she and my father had owned and had worked for all of their days to pay for her being looked after till she died almost three years in all .
I asked a local politician why she could not recieve the £300+ each week to look after her his reply was we can't afford it.I said to him your sending a very strange message out to people, criminals get almost £1700 to £3400 pounds U K to keep them (looked after)in prison .
When they come out after doing their time the government doesn't take their property to pay for that most of which was paid for with illegally gotten gain .I never thought of that he said with mouth open.I didn't even get a photograph Alistair