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gundog
02-25-2006, 10:23 PM
Here is my home shop press. I would like to thank Sandy and David for all the help and advice. I was in a real hurry to get it done so I did not take pictures as I was building it. I am very happy with what I have but I am probably going to upgrade it to some electric controls thanks to David for helping me understand how to do that.

One of the pit falls I had was ordering too large a pump for my motor a good rule of thumb is 1 HP per gallon per minute. I sent it back before installing it and ordered a different one. The pump is quite and I like that I ordered most of the hydraulic parts from Northern Tool cost for the motor, pump, control valve, cylinder, tank and gauge ran about $1000 the fittings, hose and fluid ran $200 cost of steel ran about $300.

I went with a 2 HP motor 220V 1Ø. The pump is a Haldex that puts out 2 gallons per minute @ 1800 RPM. The cylinder is 5" dia x 8" stroke. The cylinder moves at a comfortable rate the calculations showed .39" per second and that looks about right. The hydraulic tank holds 7 gallons I went large here hoping I won’t need a oil cooler for continuous use I won’t know if that works out until I use it more.

The system should put out about 30 tons if I turn the pressure up to around 2000 PSI right now the valve came set at 1500 PSI and unless it bogs out bending my parts I will leave it there.

I am going to be using this press to bend some aluminum parts if you did not see my previous post when I was gathering info for the build.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03132.jpg
This is an overall view.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03136.jpg
This is a close up of one of the guildes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03131-1.jpg
Side view shows plumbing and electrical.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03133.jpg
This is a view of the pump, motor and tank. A note I will be adding a guard for the lovejoy coupler in case it decides to come apart I don’t want the operator (probably me) to get hit with flying debris.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03137.jpg
Close up of the top die and holder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03138.jpg
This is a view of the bottom of the plate that holds the bottom die the little tabs hold the plate in place so it can’t shift.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03139.jpg
This shows the bottom die the die is adjustable in all directions to line up with the top die. It also shows the different radius that can be added to the upper die. The upper die has two pins pressed in and the round shafts with the side milled flat line up on the pins and there are set screws in the ends of the shafts that hold the milled off shafts in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03140.jpg
This is a view from the top it shows some alignment screws that I added to center the cylinder. You can also see the cylinder mount.



[This message has been edited by gundog (edited 02-26-2006).]

tattoomike68
02-25-2006, 11:38 PM
That looks slick , I hope you can go slow enough so the bends come out right on the money.

Too_Many_Tools
02-26-2006, 01:42 AM
VERY NICE WORK.

Could we see some closeups and different angle shots of the die holders?

Also, what are the dimensions of the steel that you use?

Thanks

TMT

abn
02-26-2006, 04:25 AM
Beautiful work, thanks for including the pricing as well!!

Doc Nickel
02-26-2006, 04:30 AM
Very nice. In fact, so nice, I have unceremoniously stolen your photos that I may properly reference them later for my own construction. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Seriously, I've been meaning to build myself a bearing press for a while- the usual manual hydraulic car-jack version, since I'm perpetually broke. That's an excellent and clean design, though I note it appears to be designed more for bending than, say, pressing bearings.

That that's pretty much exactly what I need for bending sections of bigger material... A couple rollers turned from large sound sections of aluminum, a saddle die, bend some tubing.... You can almost hear the gears whirring. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Doc.

spkrman15
02-26-2006, 07:57 AM
Really nice work. Can you post some pictures of you doing some bends? I might try and start making some dies and doing some press work.

I just bought a 20 ton, air operated hydraulic press. It is pretty slick.

Rob http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

wierdscience
02-26-2006, 10:19 AM
Nice job!

gundog
02-26-2006, 01:44 PM
I will answer some questions that were asked. The material used was 4" channel 4 legs 80" long. The cross pieces top and the table are 6" channel. I have 30" from inside the legs. The longest top die that can be used is 23 3/4". I am 6'-5" tall so I planned the height to make the table be at a comfortable position for me to work at. The legs are bolted to the top cross piece so it can be broken down in 3 pieces if I ever need to move it. To add strength to the 4 bolts holding the legs at the top I welded a piece of bar stock on the top of the legs on each of the 4 legs this takes most of the strain off the bolts during pressing.

I have the material I bend cut for me on a water jet cutter and I am waiting for an order to bend right now so I can’t show pictures bending until next week when the material comes in. The dies are proven already though I made them for a large press brake. I was contracting this function out but I decided to start doing it my self and that is the reason for the press. I could not find anyone in town that had the proper dies to bend this and they wanted $5000 for custom made dies. I made these dies for $50 on a weekend. I am sure the $5000 dies would look more professional and be much stronger but I doubt they work any better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03144-1.jpg
This picture shows the detail of how the radius pieces are attached to the upper die. I left the allen wrench stuck in the end to give you the way it is attached. I also purposely left the shaft hung down a little to show the fit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03143-1.jpg
This picture shows the pressed in pins on the upper die that hold the radius shafts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03142-1.jpg
This is a close up of the upper die holder it is a milled slot with set screws every couple inches to hold the upper die in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03141-1.jpg
This picture shows the bottom die it is made of UHMW normally this would be steel but the steel mars the aluminum so I made the die from UHMW. I cut the V in the UHMW with my table saw the V is 85* giving room for spring back.

SJorgensen
02-26-2006, 01:46 PM
That looks great!

Now could you please measure the base, width and depth, and maybe that window's width and height? Oh, and do you happen to have an engine hoist?

I'm KIDDING!

Great job!

charlie coghill
02-26-2006, 07:35 PM
Very nice Gundog.

snowman
02-26-2006, 07:47 PM
green with envy

if i wasn't so damn exhausted, i'd go to the shop and start building right now!

what are you using for linear bearings? can you give some closer pictures of that setup??

-Jacob

Fred White
02-26-2006, 08:08 PM
Clap..clap..clap..clap..etc.

gundog
02-26-2006, 08:15 PM
Snowman,
The guide blocks are UHMW. The guide shafts are SS 1.25" gun barrel blanks. The blanks were given to me they are barrels that did not pass inspection after boring they work great for other projects though they have about a .22 cal bore in them.
GD

snowman
02-26-2006, 08:45 PM
thanks for the update GD. It'll be my summer project...

only I want a little box accessory that shears angle and strip. (as well as the press brake)

-Jacob

Dawai
02-26-2006, 09:32 PM
Looks good, now it needs some sparkly paint. I suggest black, clearcoat with rainbow metalflake.

I can mail you a teaspoon of flake if you like.

David

Evan
02-27-2006, 10:36 AM
Ain't it nice when you can build stuff that's better than what you can buy.

sid pileski
02-27-2006, 10:59 AM
That's a very nice job! You should be proud!!

Mcgyver
02-27-2006, 08:44 PM
very nice job! thanks for sharing all the pics

CCWKen
02-27-2006, 09:01 PM
Wow! That is nice.

TECHSHOP
02-27-2006, 09:10 PM
Very nice press, glad you got it up and running. Nice pics to, like the new use for the barrels.

------------------
Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

Dawai
02-27-2006, 09:20 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/CheapAss_dro_006.jpg

This here dealie.. now.. It turns pins on and off.. reads a chinese scale..

WHAT IF? we wire a contactor in to the pins on your old puter.. Read the scale, YOU Can hold your manual valve down, when it reaches the scale setting it shuts off.. NOW that is CHEAP.. and you don't need no stinkin solonoids..

I'll post the code here in a bit on the yahoo group.. Right now, it reads two scales, but you enable them on the screen. I gotta update the config.file and the screen visibl-invisible for the buttons and displays on the other axis.

FOR You thou, it'd be wonderful.. a chinese scale and a convertor some old electronics and there you are.

Notice that rascal is reading 5 decimal places? I rounded the thing off to 5 places by format.. I WONDER what that scale is saying actually?

SJorgensen
02-27-2006, 11:57 PM
I'm lost Dave. Are you suggesting a Computer controlled press? Is it to move to a preset position or to a preset pressure? It is an interesting propostion.

Boostinjdm
07-04-2011, 02:54 PM
I thought I would bring this thread back up and ask for some info.

What did you finally end up using for pump, motor (110 or 220), valving, etc.? Part #'s would be really nice to compare with what I have purchased for my press. Also, a video would be sweet. I've got a very long term press project going that is similar to yours.

gundog
07-04-2011, 03:43 PM
I went with a 2 HP motor 220V 1. The pump is a Haldex that puts out 2 gallons per minute @ 1800 RPM. The cylinder is 5" dia x 8" stroke. The cylinder moves at a comfortable rate the calculations showed .39" per second and that looks about right. The hydraulic tank holds 7 gallons I went large here hoping I won't need a oil cooler for continuous use I won't know if that works out until I use it more.

Update this info is from the first post. I have bent thousands of parts with this press and it works great. I use the same UHMW die I started with and it shows no wear. The hydraulic oil never gets hot after running for an hour. The press just purs along and hardly ever shows pressure on the gauge maybe 500 psi the relief is set for 1500 psi and I have never come close to that pressure it could be raised to 2000 psi if needed. I have pressed bearings and bent 1" solid round stock among other parts with it.

I built this because after designing this part the shop that had quoted me bending the parts decided to triple his bending price from $5 per unit to $15 per unit. It made me so mad I paid for the first 10 he bent and took my die home and built this press that was 5 years ago. That was a huge mistake on his part I have literally built thousands of these anchor brackets and I can bend 50 of them in one hour. I build 50 every 4-6 weeks. If the guy had of left them at $5 each he would have tripled his shop rate and had a good steady paying job. At the time the part that really irked me was I had to make the dies his dies would fracture the parts and scratch them up real bad. I fixed his brake issue and he promptly tripled his price.

I laugh about it now I make $750 an hour bending these parts at his price. The machine paid for itself after 2 batches.

Mike

Boostinjdm
07-04-2011, 05:10 PM
Now I'm wondering if my 0.5 GPM @ 1800 pump will be enough. My goal was to run off 110 volts so I didn't want my 2hp motor to work too hard and trip the breaker. I won't be doing any production runs bending stuff so speed isn't that big of a deal.

What size hoses did you use? Do you think 1/4" or 3/8" would be sufficient?

A link to my build if you're interested. It's been collecting dust for a while now...
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=34555

This thread has a little more info and pics of the reservoir.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=34669&page=2

Don't recall if you're a member there or not.

gundog
07-04-2011, 05:37 PM
Now I'm wondering if my 0.5 GPM @ 1800 pump will be enough. My goal was to run off 110 volts so I didn't want my 2hp motor to work too hard and trip the breaker. I won't be doing any production runs bending stuff so speed isn't that big of a deal.

What size hoses did you use? Do you think 1/4" or 3/8" would be sufficient?

A link to my build if you're interested. It's been collecting dust for a while now...
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=34555

This thread has a little more info and pics of the reservoir.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=34669&page=2

Don't recall if you're a member there or not.

I am not a member of that forum but I did look through your pictures and it is looking good.

My aproach was a little different I knew the tonnage I needed to press and fit the parts around that. I had a lot of help in that area if you read through the links I posted you will find some great info provided by other members. I also had a cylinder but when the calculations were done it was not big enough so I bought one and if I remember right they are not that expensive so don't design everything around a cheap cylinder.

In short the pump, cylinder & electric motor must all match. The cylinder diameter and shaft size will be determined by working pressure and need tonnage and amount of fluid it takes to move it at your preferred speed will dictate the GPM rate needed for your pump at your needed psi. When you know that info you can size the electric motor to run the pump. If you do not get that right the cylinder may slam shut in Milli seconds or need a very long time to operate. If the pump HP requirement is too great for your motor it will stall the motor overheat and trip the breaker.

If you have limitations for electrical service size you may have to size the motor to your limited service and match the pump size to that and a smaller cylinder then your tonnage will drop.

You really need to figure out what you need before the hydraulic system can be designed. I am not an expert and this advice might not be worth much but there are some experts on here that can help you better than I can. I am certainly willing to help where I can. I will try and get a video shot of the press but I just bent my last 50 brackets 2 days ago so it will be a while before I do any actual bending but I will shoot something of it running. My press although works very well for me is no way as nice as a $5000-$10,000 press brake.

Mike

boslab
07-04-2011, 07:10 PM
lovely job, well done, nice deep blade, a word of warning, beware the 180 degree trap, its what happens when you fold a channel, fold one, its now 'L' shaped, fold 2, its now a channel, unfortunately the channel sweeps up and hits the blade, if you have the misfortune of holding it as most do then your digits are between the blade and stock, even with a slow ram it comes up mighty quick.
Ive seen it remove a set of fingers!. just a little reminder in case.
Other than my safety rant a nice bit of kit made by yourself for yourself, the best there is, i have a ram and powerpack but havent done the rest yet aka build it!, if mine is as good as yours i will be very pleased [i only have round tube for the vertical sections and am not yet sure how to best manage.
regards
mark

Jaakko Fagerlund
07-04-2011, 11:29 PM
One option if you can't use a motor big enough to achieve the flow rate and pressure needed is to have to pumps, other high flow and low pressure and vice versa. If funding doesn't allow, even a check valve and pressurized air in the oil tank can be used to speed up the ram. Of course it doesn't have any bending power but when you need to bend you just finish it with the motor :)

DR
07-05-2011, 09:40 AM
Very nice press!!!

We use hydraulic presses in my business. I strongly recommend for anyone building their own, use a double acting cylinder for power up and down.

Our main uses ares broaching and deep drawing requiring 20 to 30 tons down force. The withdrawal also requires substantial force. Spring returns just don't do it.

gundog
07-05-2011, 04:25 PM
Just to keep this all together this is a very old thread that I linked to from another recent thread when questions were asked about my shop built press. Here are the links that lead up to the building of this press for anyone interested. I built the press about 5 years ago.

Mike

Info on the press brake here.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...ighlight=press

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...ighlight=press

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...ighlight=press

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/sho...ighlight=press

Black_Moons
07-05-2011, 04:51 PM
UHMW bending die? Nice!!

Really nice work on the whole thing, I love the guides. I understand how a hydraulic cylinder can support some sideload... But really, Guides are awsome. :) And stop rotation.

bhigs54
02-17-2016, 07:52 AM
Very nice work. I would like to builld one of these for my garage shop. Do you have any plans I could buy from you?
Thank you
Bruce

Doozer
02-17-2016, 08:07 AM
This press is just another example of the many poorly designed presses out there.
The cylinder body is anchored so it adds to the column load stack up.
Not good.
I post this seemingly every time someone builds a press.
No one seems to understand it.
The motor is also in a bad spot when parts come shooting out the bottom.

--Doozer

Carm
02-17-2016, 08:28 AM
Doozer
Yes, I think you have posted those comments every time.
Duly noted.
Poorly designed, apparently not. If it works...well I guess it works. I don't like the color.

Doozer
02-17-2016, 09:06 AM
Humans are supposed to learn from the past,
not repeat the mistakes of the past.
That would be mimicking the past.

-D

Black_Moons
02-17-2016, 03:43 PM
I will answer some questions that were asked. The material used was 4" channel 4 legs 80" long. The cross pieces top and the table are 6" channel. I have 30" from inside the legs. The longest top die that can be used is 23 3/4". I am 6'-5" tall so I planned the height to make the table be at a comfortable position for me to work at. The legs are bolted to the top cross piece so it can be broken down in 3 pieces if I ever need to move it. To add strength to the 4 bolts holding the legs at the top I welded a piece of bar stock on the top of the legs on each of the 4 legs this takes most of the strain off the bolts during pressing.

I have the material I bend cut for me on a water jet cutter and I am waiting for an order to bend right now so I can’t show pictures bending until next week when the material comes in. The dies are proven already though I made them for a large press brake. I was contracting this function out but I decided to start doing it my self and that is the reason for the press. I could not find anyone in town that had the proper dies to bend this and they wanted $5000 for custom made dies. I made these dies for $50 on a weekend. I am sure the $5000 dies would look more professional and be much stronger but I doubt they work any better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03144-1.jpg
This picture shows the detail of how the radius pieces are attached to the upper die. I left the allen wrench stuck in the end to give you the way it is attached. I also purposely left the shaft hung down a little to show the fit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03143-1.jpg
This picture shows the pressed in pins on the upper die that hold the radius shafts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03142-1.jpg
This is a close up of the upper die holder it is a milled slot with set screws every couple inches to hold the upper die in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/millnut/DSC03141-1.jpg
This picture shows the bottom die it is made of UHMW normally this would be steel but the steel mars the aluminum so I made the die from UHMW. I cut the V in the UHMW with my table saw the V is 85* giving room for spring back.

Lovely chunk of UHMW there. I wonder how long it will last in use? thats some serious force.. should leave a nice finish on the aluminum however!

chipmaker4130
02-17-2016, 04:20 PM
This press is just another example of the many poorly designed presses out there . . .


Its a 10 year old thread. If the press is still working, the design worked.

Doozer
02-17-2016, 06:19 PM
There are many terrible designs that "work" everyday.
Look at the automotive world for many examples.
People just put up with a piece of crap because they are lazy
or ignorant.
-Doozer

softtail
02-17-2016, 06:42 PM
Its a 10 year old thread. If the press is still working, the design worked.

I agree with you. But for the sake of conversation, if the press failed and maimed the operator a year from now would the design be considered to have 'worked'? Ten years from now? After someone else owns it? Reminds me of that Mike Tyson quote 'everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face'. Things tend to work until they don't. -ST-

Arcane
02-17-2016, 07:23 PM
This press is just another example of the many poorly designed presses out there.
The cylinder body is anchored so it adds to the column load stack up.
Not good.
I post this seemingly every time someone builds a press.
No one seems to understand it.
The motor is also in a bad spot when parts come shooting out the bottom.

--Doozer

Why is it not good?

chipmaker4130
02-17-2016, 08:00 PM
I agree with you. But for the sake of conversation, if the press failed and maimed the operator a year from now would the design be considered to have 'worked'? Ten years from now? After someone else owns it? Reminds me of that Mike Tyson quote 'everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face'. Things tend to work until they don't. -ST-

I don't think the design deficiencies Doozer mentioned are 'fly apart-kill me dead' type things. The design just isn't optimal if the press were to be used regularly to max capacity. The OP stated his use for it likely wouldn't exceed 60% of available tonnage. The man wasn't trying to design a commercial product, just something to meet his specific needs. As for the next guy, he's getting a home-made press. He needs to determine whether or not it is up to his tasks. No guarantees, etc.

In the home shop, all of us build things the best we can, or at least as good as we can afford. Usually, we overbuild. The man did a lot of planning and covered things as best he could. If it worked for him, that's all that was required. The next guy is on his own, and that's how it should be.

Doozer
02-17-2016, 11:16 PM
Why is it not good?

The taller the column, the easier it can buckle.
Also the more unstable it is.
Why mount a hydraulic cylinder so the body adds to the column
when it can so easily be mounted from it's front flange?
Just because there is a clevis on the body does not mean
one has to use it. The clevis allows the hydraulic cylinder
to be used as a link. In a press you want the cylinder to
be hard mounted, not used as a linkage.
When you have a long column, the center area on the push
end of that column that is stable, meaning where it adds no
tensile stresses to the column (bad) is very small.
A short column has a larger area on the push end that is stable,
meaning you have to get out close to the edge of the load zone
before the column starts to see any tensile stress. Tensile stress
in a column means it wants to buckle (fail). We want columns to
be in pure compression. So mounting the cylinder from the back
end makes the end of the ram critical to be centered over the area
of push, else things want to go sideways. Yes many commercially
sold presses are built improperly. I am trying to help you guys
here build something good and safe. That is what engineering is
all about.

---Doozer

Doozer
02-17-2016, 11:19 PM
PS- Yes, these are indeed fly apart and kill me deficiencies.
A press made the wrong way is more likely to send parts
being pressed out flying to cause injury.

-D

chipmaker4130
02-18-2016, 12:20 AM
PS- Yes, these are indeed fly apart and kill me deficiencies. . .

Oops, I misinterpreted your original comment about the ram mount. I stand corrected.

Arcane
02-18-2016, 12:36 AM
Thanks Doozer.

softtail
02-18-2016, 09:22 AM
I don't think the design deficiencies Doozer mentioned are 'fly apart-kill me dead' type things. The design just isn't optimal if the press were to be used regularly to max capacity. The OP stated his use for it likely wouldn't exceed 60% of available tonnage. The man wasn't trying to design a commercial product, just something to meet his specific needs. As for the next guy, he's getting a home-made press. He needs to determine whether or not it is up to his tasks. No guarantees, etc.

In the home shop, all of us build things the best we can, or at least as good as we can afford. Usually, we overbuild. The man did a lot of planning and covered things as best he could. If it worked for him, that's all that was required. The next guy is on his own, and that's how it should be.

I agree. -ST-

softtail
02-18-2016, 09:26 AM
Yes, thanks Doozer. I spent few minutes last night looking for an explanation in other press threads to no avail. Maybe a sticky for good press design, materials, and usage would be good? -ST-

Black_Moons
02-18-2016, 10:06 AM
Agreed on mount the cylinder from the front to minimize effective length of the hydraulic cylinder. I don't think having the body stick 12" or whatever into your work envelope is going to help things, and means you need more steel for the uprights for the same working press distance.

If you do ever need the extra clearance, you can build an extension for the ram itself. Hopefully such a pesky job won't need much force and you can carefully center it to deal with the extra length.