Shopmaster eldorado

[VJRicci]

Hi, my nane is Vincent Ricci (vinnie) I have been a model builder for a number of years, but with hand tools. My interest has now advanced to the point that I would like to build model with power tools. I have been researching a number of three in one machines,and from my readings I have tentatively settled on a Shopmaster eldorado 2000. I was wondering if anyone has any advise they might offer before I take the plunge. I am a subscriber to HSM and find it very stimulating. I am a middle school math teacher coming up or retirement.

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[MikeHenry]

There seem to be at least 3 options for buying hsm machine tools:

1) The 3-in-1 type machines (all import)
2) Import machines (usually asian)
3) Used domestic machines

Some folks dislike the 3-in-1 because of the limitations it imposes regarding work envelope or setups. Other like them because of space or budget constraints and don't mind working within the limitations.

The issue of buying separate import machines (lathe & mill) always seem to start arguments. Their quality is such that one usually needs to "fix" or modify various aspects of the tool from replacing shoddy screws and motors to realigning or refitting various bits and pieces. Sometimes the leadscrews are metric or a non-standard English thread and that can lead to errors when milling/turning to size unless one is careful counting handwheel turns. If you go this route make sure to buy from a manufacturer that has a good track record and will stock spare parts for many years down the road. Or be prepared to make your own parts. Jet seems to have a pretty good reputation in this area. If buying separates think about whether or not you can live with a mill-drill as opposed to a knee mill. The knee mill will let you achieve vertical travel by moving the quill or the knee up/down while keeping the workpiece centered under the spindle. On a mill-drill you will only have 3-4" of vertical travel via the quill. If you need more than that you will have to manually raise or lower the head and will lose location over the workpiece.

Used separate domestics can be the best choice and can usually be found at prices that are comaparble (or better) than the new imports but it can be hard to find ones in good condition at affordable prices. This translates to time and effort on your part and a certain risk that what looks good at first later turns out to have problems. If you go this route try to find someone that can help you evaluate a used machine before you buy. Local auctions can be a good source but it is usually difficult to investigate the tool completely before bidding. Local ads from private parties are another source and you can usually check the tool under power before buying. Used dealers are probably the most expensive route but dealers with a good reputation will stand behind what they sell and will give you an accurate description of the condition.

I'm pretty much in the last camp. Buy a used domestic lathe & knee mill. If space is a consideration or the tools will go into a basement look for an Atlas/Craftsman or Logan lathe and a Rockford or Clausing knee mill. There are many other good doemstic names as well.

One other option - if you only need to make small parts, look into the Sherline or Taig (maybe Sakai, too, if they are still in business) lines of machine tools.

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Mike Henry in Batavia, IL

[Thrud]

The Emco combination machines are now manufactured in the US by Blue Ridge Machinery. I have a Maxi-Mat 7. It is very well made (in Austria) and I expect the Blue Ridge versions are just as good or better - the newer ones have a prismatic bed, mine is a English style flat bed.

[charlie coghill]

Hi Vinnie. I recommend that you get seperate machines,mill,lathe. When you use the small three in one machines,they are not a ridge as the indivdual machine.

As has been pointed out the mill/drill is good untill you have to move to head you loose your position,been there done that. I purchased a 9x42 bridgeport type mill. What happens is you advance on to bigger and better projects and you wish you had something better. Hope this helps.
Charlie

[Neil Butterfield]

Vinnie,
I'm a new member Vinnie and just getting back into machining after being away from it for many years. I too would suggest you stay away from the 3 in one or 2 in one machines. My 93 year old neighbor, a former tool and die maker and shop owner sold me his old 9" South Bend lathe last year (he wouldn't sell me his mill because he built his in the 30's when he couldn't afford a Bridgeport or other Vertical mill so it had to stay in the family) and he wouldn't allow me to buy a bench type Mill/drill machine insisting I purchase a knee type milling machine, Well, I had a space problem, too many woodworking machines.I spent a year looking for a small used knee type mill to no avail (a Bridgeport was too big for the space I had allocated). I finally purchased a Grizzly Model G1008 for about $2600 delivered. For the light work that I do it is a fantistic machine.It is made in Taiwian, has a small footpring, has an 8 x 30 table travel, R-8 spindle, power table feed , 20" spindle to table distance and supprisingly, most screws, bolts threads, etc. are not metric but American Standard. I've done a few things to touch it up and improve it but I love the machine and can't speak well enough of it. Grizzly has been importing this machine for years and it is now being built as they want it and the bugs are ironed out. Enco and I believe Jet also import a similar machine but I don't think they have the 20" spindle to table distance.I think you would be much happier with a set-up like this rather than a multi-machine, even if you have space problems and/or money is short. The 20" between spindle and table, which the knee makes possible is very important for whatever type of work you are doing. Boring heads with boring bars protruding have to be used with shor center drills, vises, and other mountings that have a way of eating up space quickly and if you want any kind of accuracy you can not be constantly breaking down your set-up. A knee machine is the only way to go. Two or three years from now you'll be very thankful you didn't buy a multi-machine, they are just a toy. The Bridgeport knee type vertical mill is so popular, and everyone copies it because it is such a great design and it needs no improvement except maybe DRO or CNC. In woodworking it is the Shopsmith that gets a lot of people into woodwoking and then they progress to individual machines. The same can be said for the multi meltalworking machines, you'll regret it later and you'll sell it for individual machines.

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Neil

[bdarin]

If you can afford American made, buy it. The quality is superior to oriental.

[Daubie]

Hi,
I have a Shoptask 17-20 XMTC(1998 version). Be prepared to do a lot of tweaking and rebuilding, though a learning process it was/is rewarding. I have a civil war era house and basement with limited space and central fireplace. I opted for this machine for now, will get a more suitable mill later, it is only good enough for light milling jobs as-is- out-of-the box. For me it is good enough, luckily I was trained in machine shop on manual equipment with proper use of files, emery paper and such. It is much better than Gingery's aluminum lathe, though I am fascinated by his effort. If I had the money and space I would go with a 13" Jet lathe and a used Bridgeport, though.//
There is a website at www.delphi.com (http://www.delphi.com) You want the Shopmaster/Shoptask Users Group. These guys do all kinds of modifications to the machines. It is a good site for tweaking the machine.//
Concerning sacrilege: I have a Shoptask 3-in-1 machine and WebTV!

Kurt

[Daubie]

Vinnie,
As an addendum to my previous post, remember: the machine does not make a machinist, the machinist makes the machinist. Anybody can do good work on a good machine. It takes a real good mechanic to do precision work with a piece of crap machinery!

Kurt

[Joel]

I almost purchased one of these machines but am now very glad that I did not. For only slightly more I got a lathe and a mill. Mine is a Chinese 12x36 lathe with a quick change gearbox, lever speed change, and power cross feed. I would not want to give ANY of these features up. I also purchased a mill/drill and (while it's no bridgeport) it is more flexible to use and has greater capacity. Having separate machines has definite advantages. The import machines may need a little tweaking, but they are new, complete, come with many accessories, and are a lot of machine for the money. Just my opinion. Good luck!

[C. Tate]

Vennie,

What did you buy? How do you like it?