View Full Version : Gold mine
11-14-2001, 02:03 PM
Farther left me a great shop but as with the gold mine I don't know how to use the pan. Have 12x48 lion lathe, Brown &Sharp virtical Mill, Old flat belt Cicinati Horazontal mill.Where would You guys begin?
11-14-2001, 03:50 PM
vocational night class ..mach tool 101.....if that i s a no go , start w/ lathe & text.... it is the basic tool & info will transfer...u need a mentor ....badly.....machine tool /burghardt vol 1&2 hard to beat 1920 to 1941 editions ..old technology & ideal for home shop . also atlas & south bend ,sheldon booklets ( from lindsey reprints)....u wont like this , but if daddy had a shop like that ,& u dont know any thing abt it ,maybe u dont have the interest /talent..or unfortunately maybe did not live w/ him.....but maybe that is unfair .....if u have the interest , skill will come.....is acquired by putting knowledge to practical application & occurs at varying time frame .....u MUST read ....call 815-935-5353& get lindsays cat. of publications....good luck & keep in touch ( email if desired)
ps ...am looking for old flat belt machinery if anywhere near ky.
Read, a lot. And develop a lot of patience. This is not a quick-learn hobby.
docn8as has some good suggestions for books. Also check out TEE Publishing in England. With the magic of credit cards, ordering from overseas is not a big deal and I've found TEE to be thorougly reliable. The Argus series of workshop books is good. I'm personally partial to "The Amateur's Lathe" by L.H. Sparey as an introduction book.
Subscribe to the magazines, check out some of the advertisers. Also get some of the tool supplier catalogs like MSC (www.mscdirect.com), Travers (www.travers.com), and others. Just going through the catalogs is an education.
If you can hook up with a club in your area, do it! There's nothing like having somebody around to talk to who knows more than you do.
And develop patience. After 25 years, I'm still learning. Other people here who have more years in the hobby (or career) than I do have said the same thing. Personally, I think that's one of the neat things about it; the hobby is always challenging.
Put a box under your bench for "learning experiences" and don't be (too) upset when the part you've spent 17 hours working on ends up there because you made a dumb mistake.
11-15-2001, 09:35 PM
Another possibility for some help is the local gunschmidt's. They might show you the basics, and as you develop specific questions then get more detailed answers. I've started a couple guys with new machines; lost good customers but made good friends.
11-16-2001, 10:56 AM
Almost everyones here, Thruds missing, anyone seen him.
Dan, I'll go right along with all here, get some books. Chances are if you get to digging you will find some of your fathers books. What did he use these machines for, maybe there was an unfinished project for you to ponder. He must have thought you able, or able to learn if he left these to you.
Lindsay has a web site, http://www.lindsaybks.com
Lindsay books aren't bad, sometimes it seems I can learn more out of a book written back when than from a more modern one. Even a modern machine shop instruction book would help you. Discard from the local vo-tech, check out the used book stores. When I was in college I would always try to snag a used text, cheaper, so you might check out the book store at a College or have one of the students do so.
Find a mentor, odds are that your father had some friends that were into machining, know any of them, pay them a visit, might develop into a good relationship.
Good luck, ask us all questions, I'm sure we'll have some sort of answer, report back and tell of your progress.
Patience, and learn to respect these machines, they can hurt you. They really aren't that dangerous but things can and do happen, so be careful.
11-17-2001, 11:24 PM
I was gonzo in Las Vegas for Comdex (Yuuch!). Ended up driving there and back Montana, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Nevada. Great scenery, nice people, no cops to slow us down! Got to see Richard Jeni, The Find-a-child Fund Chili Cook featuring Eddie Money, and Caesars Magical Empire, ran into Willie Nelson (or his snotty clone), and gambled way too much moola. Went half blind in one eye from coughing - blown blood vessel. Good time!
Read, take your time, and treasure that gold mine your father built for you. The other guys are right, if you are unsure, just ask and we will help if we can.
The most important thing to understand is safety. Eye glasses are not safety glasses. Remove rings, watches, necklaces etc. when working with your tools. Tie your hair back if you still have yours (I don't). Don't blow metal chips aroud with an airhose (Vacuuming is better). Don't lean over operating machinery. Take care of cuts and slivers with disinfectant (serious bacterial infections can occur from slivers and cuts - no joke). 3_M Foam bandages stick well in shop use and come off cleanly. Safety boots can prevent broken toes from falling objects (it happens) as well as cushioning and protecting your feet from cuts and scrapes.
Have fun, it is a great hobby...
11-18-2001, 05:17 AM
I should have realized where you were, look below right, machinery haunts. Halftimers kicking in?
Hope your eye gets better. Not going to sympathize with you on the gambling part, taking the load off someone else right, someones got to be the loser.
Glad to see you back.
11-18-2001, 11:55 AM
Hi, I agree with you all, But! one thing I do
think he needs reminded of, other than safty glasses, no rings, no long beards or hair let
fly, Is machine tools can be very dangerous to those who operate them, especially if they
are uninformed, a lathe, shaper, or mill have
no respect for our flimsey flesh and bone.
There is not enough space to write all the
possibilities, or ways a person can lose a
arm, leg, or other member.
Before starting up a machine make sure that
the chuck is tightly on it's spindle, I had a boss launch a chuck two days in a row because he started a lathe that a guy had loosened the chuck on a loo spindle. He had to go home and I think clean up his pants.
Make sure the machine is well oiled, and
well adjusted, tool post where you want it, right tooling is in place in the tailstock etc. and make sure that you keep house, one
bad experience I have seen is being whipped
with long razor sharp chips, or swarf. Before you start the machine.
Make sure your chuck key is hanging where it belongs when you start your lathe.
Always make sure the work piece is solidly
heald in the chuck, on the faceplate etc. before starting up the lathe.
Turn the machine over by hand with the workpiece in place to make sure that
something did not escape your observation, I have seen a large short piece of shafting fly out of a lathe because it was only heald with two jaws. Also this insures your not going to turn the lathe on when you have a workpiece that's going to to WHAM, into the
cross slide or bed ways.
Stand out of harms way when starting up a lathe so if something comes loose during machining it won't hit you, I had a friend get a BIG chunk of UHMW plastic hit him in the chest, like he says a sledgehammer.
Make sure long workpieces that stick out
from the rear of the spindle, are well supported, we used to use a stand made out of
a old tire and rim, with a piece of pipe as
and upright, and another piece of pipe like a
tee on top, the work going though the tee.
I saw a guy running eight feet of stress proof 5/8" shaft out of the rear of the spindle. I asked him don't you think you should have an out board support on that thing? His reply was mind your own @@$$&##
business. I said O.K. don't listen to me.
He started the machine up, the shaft bent
at a 90 degree angle, at 825rpm first it took out the lights above his machine, and began to work on his new kennedy toolbox, I watched as it bent the lid up and all the drawers opened due to impact. Then his brand new Starret measuring tools began to get whacked and thrown around various parts of the shop, then the toolbox could take it no more so it departed, and the lower roll away
began to get thumped and hard! Again brand new Starret tools flew. The top of the roll away seemed a bit stronger that the lid on
the top box, but soon too it began to buckle.
The machinist, in the mean time was grabbing for levers, it was a Ward turret lathe, and so just for kicks in the middle
of all the exitement, and much to my glee, he
grabbed the forward and reverse lever, and
reversed the spindle rotation. I doubt he did this for comedy relief, but the bar had
a whole new grasp of the situation, now instead of downward blows it was doing uppercuts, which threw the roll away away.
Finally he managed to get it to stop, it looked like a scene from the Texas chainsaw massacre, If tools could bleed they would have, If toolboxes could moan, they would have howled in pain.
The machinist slowly turned his shaking, heaving, white face to me, I gave him the only comforting words I had in me, Mind your own business! I said with a smile.
I have seen two fellow machinists reach out and feel the finish they were getting on a workpiece they were operating a milling machine. The first guy ran his finger into a 3/4" endmill, the other guy was gotten by a flycutter spinning at high speed, both ended
up at the hospital having fingers sewn up.
Think before you act, use common sense and
evaluate the laws of physics when operating
As far as I am concerned machining is one
of the most rewarding hobbies or occupations
there is. I have spent most of my life machining, welding, fabricating, gunsmithing blacksmithing, and doing hobby foundry work.
It has been interesting, and everyday it
brings new adventures and learning experiences to your life. I hope you enjoy the experiences of the hobby, as much as I have.
12-06-2001, 07:38 AM
well said giz!
its one thing to start with a unimat, but he's got some machines with some power. they can/will eat you up if you let then.
an apprentice i knew got a job at beth steel. he got cought in a lathe chuck some how and got wound around a bar and ended his life prematurely..
be damn careful, no loose clothes or gloves.
keep your fingers and shirt tails away from the action. this old stuff usually has minimal guards.
but it is a wonderful occupation and hobby.
care is job #1
12-07-2001, 03:04 AM
I completely agree, learning about the machine's proper operation is paramount - a very slow process when you don't have veteran machinists like gizmoid & kapullen to explain and show you the right thing to do. Just be patient and follow the safety rules ALWAYS.
Machine tools are the king of tools, and demand the greatest respect.
Blew a tiny blood vessel in the right retina. I am scheduled for "Emergency Laser Surgery" the end of January. Until then, I have trouble reading stuff like this and fine stuff takes inordinately longer.
I spent a fair bit at the Chili Cook Off for Lost Children - don't mind that - good cause to help out. Last time I gambled was two years ago - won that time. It was a holiday and I had great fun, met some great people. Worst thing is, driving down made me homesick for the terrain - someday I will move to Utah or Colorado...
12-07-2001, 10:09 PM
SAFETY AND PROPER SAFE OPERATIONAL PARAMETERS KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!! This is lesson number one for any shop. Iteach this subject, have done so for 14 years, have machined for 27 years now. I have all ten fingers, both eyes, but a few stitch marks from the times that I was either careless, or something just went wrong. Safety and proper operation saved my tail even when I was slightly careless (read nonchalant). Even with all the safety practices followed to the letter, knowledge of machine operation, and even ones own gear and the signs of safety issue are paramount (call it a second sense via experience).
I have all my safety regulations on file in "WORD 2000" format. If you wish it, I can e-mail it as attachments to you.
As for machine experience, I believe in an actual person over reading for basic instruction. Talk with friends, see if a person shakes out in your friend or family tree to look over the gear you own, and share knowledge. Also, as noted before, check your local schools, most offer adult classes in the evening if they have a shop.
After you get basics, you can better understand text and reading for knowledge (understanding of the basic processes). Many good texts were listed here. I can send a few examples of what i have on file for charts, and information I have developed. Feel free to e-mail me if you wish more info.
12-07-2001, 10:25 PM
MORE ON SAFETY and such
While comparing safety fun, here is some.
CHUCK KEYS - no matter how much you think you know, or how invincible you think you are, or that nobody will ever see you sin when you do it once - NEVER LEAVE THE FREAKING THINGS IN A CHUCK NO MATTER HOW EXPERIENCED OR INVINCIBLE OR PERFECT YOU THINK YOU ARE!!! Only once has somebody been burned by this in my school shop, I have a mark on a wall 11 feet off the deck, and 22 feet from the machine where a stupid know more than I ever will launched a key from a 10 inch chuck. Guy left a wet clean up spot for me on this one. I show the mark once. Somebody sins once, they do all safety testing again. Twice they get three days out of class. Three times I fire them (well let them loose from my class roster). These things usually hit someone else than the operator.
Second one, never think a moving part or cutter or wheel is safe. Let them stop, and by themself to boot. make sure all items to be used are clamped down TIGHT!!!!! I have a wall of fame that is but a few parts in 14 years of teaching, but these few busted cutters and parts sure make a statement. None in the last three years.
Loose clothing. In teaching, students think it is a personal RIGHT to dress with baggy stuff, loose chains, rings, and such. One kid decided to pull out his shirt and be cool while threading, got it caught between the thread indicator dial and leadscrew. ripped it right off at the half way point. All it took was ten seconds from untuck to show he was a "big bad guy who could do what he wants" to "suck down". Five years later, the guy graduated, his legend lives on by word of mouth.
Safety glasses - with side shields, tight to the face!!!! HERE IS THE SPEC---Z87 STANDARD FOR IMPACT. Here is how i show this. Safety glasses eventually get scratched up. I save the real beaters, and each year on day two, when all troops have glasses, I take out an old lens, hold it in a vise grip, get out a ball peen hammer, and beat the living heck out of the lens on a piece of wood or an anvil. Never shatters, never breaks off. An old teacher friend of mine used to "test drive" the safety glasses - literally - by tieing them on a rope behind his car, and driving about two miles from the school, then back. They live, we consider them.
I run a tight ship, and for a reason, I work safe because i have a kid and wife who i need to support and hug, and because i love machining so very much I do not want to forgo my fun by being hurt.
12-08-2001, 02:09 AM
I completely agree with you, you can never be too safe and you must be paying attention at all times.
I had a guy on a shift of mine blow his thumb off in a 50Ton Promecan Press Brake because he did not like the way I had it set up for him and changed it to "his" liking after I went back to my 250T Press Brake. Needless to say, he was rushed to hospital with pieces of thumb in a lunch bag. Many months later his thumb looked like new - thank God for good Micro-Surgeons!
12-10-2001, 08:09 AM
So you're a punch em and bang em machinist ha! ha! JOKE!!! I was working foreman for a couple years in a sheet metal machine shop too. Set up the cnc's, made mar-forming dies and such.
By their mature those materials are some of the worst for a machinist.
Glad I don't do that anymore. Learned a lot though.
I saw a guy leave two fingers on a press brake too.
Got to be careful!
12-10-2001, 10:04 AM
Now that the war stories have moved to a new thread, I have a couple of suggestions for newbies.
First, get some files and file awhile. It gives you a feel for how hard various metals are and how metal comes off in chips. And how tightly something must be clamped to take cuts. You'll also need 'em to clean up the sharp edges the machines produce.
Secondly, get some sort of electric cut-off saw. Nothing can turn a weekend project into several weekends like staring at a 2-1/2" diameter steel bar with a hacksaw in your hand.
12-10-2001, 11:56 PM
We never did any sissy a/c stuff - just steel, Aluminum, Stainless, and Copper 30Ga. to 1" thick. Mostly custom electrical enclosures/cabinetry/equipment and High End Office Furniture. I got all the difficult and/or expensive jobs to do (no pressure at all...) - so I tried not to screw up much!
My favorite hacksaw is my Porter-Cable TigerSaw with a old Remington carbide grit blade. Those 2" Cummins wristpins cut nicely with that (once it gets started, that is)...
I agree filing is one of the best skills to master - I am still working on it...