guns??

[bspooh]

Hello all,

It seems like I'm one of the only persons on this BBS that does absolutely nothing with guns...I am not being negative, I think it is cool that you all love modifying guns and such. I just wish I had more in common with some of the projects that's talked about on this web..I don't even own a gun...pretty scary huh?? Hopefully I can help people out on machining techniques and such..This is a great board for receiving information, I hope I continue to learn more techniques and ideas from everyone, and hopefully people will learn from me....Where does everyone get the $$$$ to buy all these machines for the garage?? I am envious of all of you who are "home shop machinists", If only I could win the lottery, ...or maybe invent a better mousetrap...who knows, maybe someday when the kids are all grown up, i might be able to afford to fill my garage up with some toys.....

brent

[SGW]

Hey, I don't do much with guns either. But read the posts anyway; machining is machining, and the problems described and the suggested solutions are frequently applicable to a lot of other situations.

(I guess the BATF headaches, on the other hand, are pretty specialized....)

[docn8as]

the union of gunmaking /machine tools is/was fundamental to the developement of modern machine tools going at least to eli whitneys milling machine patents a couple hundred years ago ,in order to fulfil government contracts...the need for arms fueled machine tool developement......& yes of course ,textiles..sewing machines , the whole industrial revolution.....the first boring machines were for cannon!1700& something.....( just got through reading am. machine tool builders,from Lindsay, & am carried away!) .....& yes machining is machining...take from it what u will ,& hail to the death of "trade secrets"
best wishes
docn8as

[bspooh]

I want to make sure there is no misunderstanding....I wrote my topic with a smile http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif I am in no way critisizing anyone or anything to do with guns...I know machining is machining, what I was trying to get across was that I wish I new more about guns so I could input some good ideas...Maybe I should have re-worded my post, but its too late now..just like everyone else on this board, i myself, enjoy helping others when I can,...are we clear now???

brent

[mike thomas]

Where does one get the money for the garage full of tools? Heck I don't know. The wife and I, before we were the wife and I, came to look at this house. I had been looking for quite awhile for a house with room for a shop in the back, and looked not much farther than the yard. When she pointed out the house, I said, "I can make it what I want. It's the shop that is important." She should have run. Anyways, I said knock that wall out, deck over there, shop here etc.. We went to the real estate office, and I made an offer with earnest money. When the papers were drawn up we were listed as H/W. This was a common law state, and that married us. Well the shop is built and the rest done too, and she figures that time spent in the shop is time well spent. Tools, I bought a slider miter for $600 and $1200 for materials and resided the house. Saved several thou, and she welcomes tools into the fold. Cannot afford all I would like to drag home, but it is still cheaper than cigarettes and alcohol. The tools also give us time to be together, as we work on many projects together. I guess for the wife, it is nice to be able to say that she wishes for such and such to be done, and I am dragging out the tools. Any excuse to play. Cheaper than marriage counseling too.

[metal mite]

bspooh,

guns are one of the only items today that are actually machined of cold hard steel.
the feel of a s&w revolver, or a browning semiauto is a real turn on to a metal mite like me. maybe that's pretty scarey too.
machines are easy to get, just smell the old iron. check the auctions, metal mites widows, machinist friends and junk dealers. they just sorta turn up.

metal

[Gizmo]

Brent, I was a gun nut first, but only had basic handyman tools. Went to the Colorado School of Trade, and one of the last things you learned there was metal shop. I loved it even more than the guns! Sold most of my guns to buy tools. Wanted one of them there lathe thingies, but I couldn't afford it. A few years later a fellow student put me on to a 9" South Bend for $950. Had to drive up to northern Mich. to retrieve it.
When I got more serious about the gun work, I needed a bigger lathe. Sold the 9" to a guy from SLC and bought a 16x54 SB in Ogden, from a fellow that successfully bid on a Monarch from Weber University. Man was that a beauty. Everything else in my shop is scrounged or built. Ain't purdy but it's all paid for. I don't know how shop owners justify the zillions they spend on new CNC's and such. I'd be scared to death. But I can scrape up the cash for an old basket case from time to time, and then fix it as money allows.

[kap pullen]

gizmo,

Do you and metal mite listen to that talk radio too?
Now that's a really scarey thought.

kapullen

[bspooh]

Well maybe someday I will get some kind of toy for the garage..who knows...I run my shop here in Salt lake city, so I have access to all the CNC's and manual machines any time of the day..The only thing that sucks is that if I am at home and I need something (which is usually very often), I don't have any means of doing it, except to hop in my truck and drive to work..sounds easy enough, but with a wife and 3 kids (and a cat), its hard to leave sometimes...I think i am whining a bit, don't you think?? I just think it would be awesome to open the garage door and see nothing but METAL...


brent

[Thrud]

Brent
I have had many deals drop in my lap - the right place at the right time. Trolling eBay can score good loot. Auctions, bankruptcy sales, estate sales, surplus, scrap yards, Machinery Dealers, University, Government - lots of places to shop!

The local University had a 18"x84" (I think it was a Dean & Grace) brand new still in the crate, never used went for $9500 Canadian with 4 and 3 jaw, taper, faceplates, collet closer. A swiss optical lathe went for $100 with all attachements. Tax payer money at work...

I got a custom made 24"x36" Machine Grey Granite Plate made by Mitutoyo and a HD stand for the price of the stand. The plate had some minor chips on two edges from being moved from show to show - gave them a hard time about it and they gave me a deal.

And as for guys getting testy in replies - I don't think anybody really means anything by it - don't worry about it. Machining is machining - techniques can be gleaned from gunsmithing, tool making, die work, automotives - it is all educating.

Dave

[SGW]

As far as "where does one get the money," I think the answer for me has been that I've done it over a period of some 25 years. I bought my lathe in 1978. I bought the milling machine in 1985. Along the way I got a good deal on a rotary table. I made myself a dividing head out of a used lathe headstock that's the same as my working lathe, so I can move chucks, collets, etc. back and forth.

Just get started, probably with a good lathe. Buy more good tools as you can. Look on the shop as a long-term project in itself. Maybe some guys can afford to fully equip a shop on Day 1, but for most of us it takes a while.

And don't think you need a lot of fancy equipment to turn out some pretty amazing stuff. Lots of equipment certainly makes it easier, but ingenuity (and skill!) can go a long way. In some back issue of Model Engineer magazine, the early '50s I think, there's a picture of some guy in his shop with his model locomotive that won a championship cup at the London model engineering show that year. His lathe is some pre-WWII Drummond that got hit by a bomb during the war, and is held together with Vise Grips!

It's the guy running the machinery that makes the difference. I'm sure Chet Atkins could have made my $85 Harmony Soverign guitar sound like a million bucks, and all the $3,000 or $30,000 Martin guitars in the world aren't every going to make me sound like Chet Atkins.

That being said, it's a whole lot easier and more enjoyable if you have good equipment.

[docn8as]

SGW .......ur right.. my D28 doesent make me sound like Chet,not even close.. ( actually , ithink he used a Gretsch),& i dont get it out nore than a few times /yr now, but oh my,...what a SOUND.. went thru a LOT of boxes before i finally capitulated in 1970 or so & bought one....( including the D18 i backed over w/ a station wagon...loaded everybody /everything & forgot the Martin leaned against the bumper ) aggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!.....youngest son covets D28 now...& i am getting suspicious when he asks me "how am i doin?".....ihave also been known to go downstairs ,turn a machine on ,listen for 10 sec. ,turn it off ,pat it & go back upstairs.
best wishes
docn8as

ps...BSPOOH ...no problem at all! ...i understood ur post!........just my paranoid defensive mode kicking in after 30+ years of leftist attacks,leaving me feeling like i always have to bear a standard...am carrying a lot of baggage...go back to when doors werent locked,a shot gun/rifle behind at least one door in the house,.most kids had a rifle/shotgun & they shot paper,cans /game & not other kids.....i waited at the bus stop most friday nites w/ uncased rifle , rode the bus to armory for practice& nobody even looked at me..now, laws wont allow me to send 3 guns to youngest son ..had to take them to DEALER to ship to dealer...$20/gun at each end .only$120!!!!! & am sure that transaction really kept somebody on the street safe!..... .member NRA since 1943 & have watched a competetive shooters org. FORCED to turn into a lobbyist oriented org.to survive.& espousing some positions I am uncomfortable with....october issue used to be entirely given to national matches,now ,less than one page!!...Lones wigger has over 40 medals in olympic /international competition,...nobody knows his name because tilted media ignores shooting sports ,prefers to report the abuses..even shows a pistol in right hand upper corner when reporting a stabbing(true)....Mark SPitz has 6 medals ,but IS known.!....two kids went thru college on full rides from rifle scholarships .daughter former state womens air rifle champion.& i even stumbled into one 2 man team state ch.(teamate was a great shot) ..third kid had the offer but wouldnd keep grades up....he now earns more than any of us ever have...go figure!!!!in 28yrs coaching Jr rifle club,LP Aker told me that not one of his kids had ever been arrested for felony....this is the side of guns never reported & i guess i just wanted to explain what prompted my post ......peace be unto you...
truly best wishes
docn8as

[bspooh]

It sounds like I am the one misunderstanding things...I apoligize...I am all for guns...I believe in them, and I feel you have the right to carry one...I just don't have one..I am sure that if I ever get mugged or something, then maybe then I would get one for my home...I didn't grow up with guns, nor did any of my friends have guns...We all have hobbies that we love to do..I just need to find something to build that excites me...

I am going to build a hydraulic press someday...just don't know when..

brent

[spope14]

What can I say, lawyers run the world, and the law is no longer favorable to the home made gun people. A trade lost?

As for machining, there are thousands of things to make that do not shoot things.

[docn8as]

hi Brent.....i also have been thinking about building a hydraulic press.....every time i beat a broach through a pulley/gear w/ a lead hammer ,i cringe ...old crftsmn vise opens up abt.7+ inches & that helps ... have thought many times that cheap china availability is impeding my desire to make tooling..& ebay isnt helping either...even w/scrap yard prices, that $119 dollar press w/ 12 T jack looks too attractive to want to build one .....have some 3 in. channel behind barn ,maybe make a bench press w/ screw feed like old atlas press...3 T or so...but channel is rusty & &&&&&&.. ..amazing how good a substitute a good sized hammer is!....rebuilt an 8n ford abt 10 years ago w/ old tyme tractor mechanic neighbor as mentor & every time i went to get a puller or pickle fork,he would pick up a heavy hammer & have it apart before i got back from basement & half the time didnt bother to buck anything w/ another hammer while doing it!..didnt have a sleeve puller ,so I turned up a disc & he drove the sleeves out w/ a sledge hammer after i used a #3 hammer & called him because i was afraid to use anything bigger...at least we didnt cut them out w/ cold chisel like the last guy did,as testified to by the dig ins down the side of each cylinder.....he gave me some of his home brew engine tools...didnt look like special FORD tools ,& had diferent principles ....but they worked!.........maybe some day will build a press
best wishes
docn8as

[mike thomas]

It is just amazing the things we build. I came into the house the other day, after building an overhead switch panel between the mill and lathe to save floor space, and asked what the normal people do. The wife replied that either they do without, or never even think of the things we might take on without hesitation.
I was thinking about some of the posts while at work today, and remembered that I have tools in my box that I bought while working in a shop in the 9th grade. I'll be 50 this month. Today they wouldn't let a kid near shop machinery. The lawyers again. And I can plainly remember my cousin, she was a couple years older, taking her rifle to high school on the bus and storing it in the principal's office until school let out for the day. Then the bus driver would drop the kids off to go shooting on the way home. And this in California. Amazing changes not only in technology, but also in society's values. Mike

[farmwrench@aol]

Don't get the idea that we all have great stuff. I have worked a little too hard on building my shop and now have a note book full of projects to work on but don't get the time. I got my last lathe (of 3)by asking the guy at the junk yard after paying for parts to replace the ones the Mrs knocked off the car if he knew of any machine tools. Guy down the road had a collection and sold me a nice little 9inch Senaca falls with a taper for $250-300 but I thought there was a steady and center rest(I swear they were in there when I agreed to buy it) I have been given an old horizontal mill basket case, 24 inch bandsaw (vert yes 24inch wheels), a surface grinder and a punch press. I am only 30 and started 4 years ago. The stuff will find you along with stock even if you don't fix things for the friends. Just don't get greedy I almost had a Warner Swazy No 4 with a pile of collets and tooling for $400 till I realized I didn't have space and couldn't part with one of my sweethearts, and the worst part was that it pissed the guy off since he wanted it to have a loving home that I didn't take it. Hope to hear more from you You know more than I do and can teach in this environment.

[Thrud]

I found that just talking about one's hobby opens people up - next thing you know - you get calls, "hey, could you use this old bearing out of my gravel crusher" - yes, I can...

Dave

[crypto]

It surprises me that machinery auctions are not mentioned in discussions regarding the purchasing of machine tools for home use. I live near the Silicon Valley area. A month does not go by that I do not receive 3 or 4 notices of machine shop auctions.

I attended an auction last week that had 9 Bridgeports for sale. I spoke with the buyer who bought two of them one for $700 and another with Vari-speed, readout, power feed and a slotting attachment for $1750. Ironically, an excellent 50-60 year old 13" SB lathe still sold for $1500 while a Milacron machining center (worth $100,00 new?) sold for $3000.

Other buys to break your heart: Delta surface grinder $150, Taft Pierce surf. grinder $300.
18" Okuma, excellent condition-$2000, a superb buy. All of these machines were functioning, quality made tools.

Moving machinery can easily add a couple of hundred dollars to its cost. One way to lessen this is to use a hydraulic ram tow truck for your moving. A friend paid a tow truck $40 to move a 16"lathe across town. Worked great, tow truck just backed up into his garage and put the lathe down right where he wanted it.

[lynnl]

good point crypto! I'm in Huntsville AL where there's a quite a bit of DoD and NASA Space Station work. Defense contractor surplus mchnry is being auctioned almost every month. In fact it'd seem a separate BB forum eg. "I'm looking for a used XYZ" would be very helpful. I've also wondered why Ebay doesn't offer some type of inverse auction format.

[metal mite]

Crypto,
Just mentioned auctions on the myford thread.
Nobody Listening out there? It's their loss.
metal

[Thrud]

You lucky buggers! The auctions we get around here are not nearly the tasty treat you guys get - I am movin' there damn it!

I am so jealous...

Dave

[wallyw]

allyw
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SGW:
Hey, I don't do much with guns either. But read the posts anyway; machining is machining, and the problems described and the suggested solutions are frequently applicable to a lot of other situations.

(I guess the BATF headaches, on the other hand, are pretty specialized....)
</font>

I've been gunsmithing part time and held an Federal Firearms license for most of the last 31 years.

BATF folks only get involved if you work on the action (receiver) of a firearm. This does not apply to your own firearms so long as not modifying to an illegal configurqtion.

Wally