Fly Cutter

[Martin]

Hello,
I am new here. I spent 15 years as a Journeyman Mold Maker, running CNC. I did the "mid-life career change". I got out of the trade completely. That was 10 years ago and I just picked up a Bridgeport. During that 10 year span I sold most of my machinest "stuff". I really miss my fly cutter. I do not have a lathe and was wondering if anyone would like to do the turning work on a new fly cutter. They are three inches in diameter with a 3/4 shank. I can exchange my mill time on a second fly cutter and send it back to you completed.
With a carbide 3/8 lathe tool they could cover a 5" pass with ease.
Thanks
Martin

[JCHannum]

Why not make it on your mill? You don't need a lathe for this, just turn the cutter around in the boring head, and cut the outside of the shank that way.

There are lots of things you can do in the mill in the way of turning. Hold the work stationary, and turn the cutter.

[Martin]

Did I mention....I would also like to make a boring head....

[Thrud]

Martin

Check the index on this website - a poor man's boring head was in in one of the magazines and is reprinted in one of the Village Press books.

Model Engineer or Model Engineer's Workshop (both British magazines) had a great article in some of the issues outlining a head made with drill rod ways - nice unit, hard to make. Your local library may have an index for them and should be able to get them on loan for you. Guy Lautard has an index of articles for the last 125 years or so of Model Engineer - www.lautard.com (http://www.lautard.com)

[JCHannum]

Most of work on a boring head is milling any way. It also could be made on a mill only.

[Martin]

In 1982 HSM had an article in the Nov/Dec. issue on a boring head.
If someone has a scanner and would like to send me the article, that would be nice.
Thanks.

[Thrud]

Martin:
Call Neil and ask for a copy of the magazine or if you can purchase photocopies from Village Press - it is not kosher to ask for currently copyrighted material to be photocopied.

Dave

[Martin]

I do not wish to argue about copyrighted material.
I will say that I have located a set of three fly cutters for about $30 new.
As for the asking for the article, there is nothing wrong with "giving" someone a copy of an article which you have photocopied. Selling the photocopy is wrong. Giving it to someone is called; "cooperation", "caring", "helping".
Thank you,
Martin

[paul j smeltzer]

you have violated the law by just copying a copyrighted article, without permission of the copyrghted holded. Paul

[Thrud]

Martin

I was not admonishing you, only pointing out it is not fair to Village Press to copy their copyrighted material (under the letter of the law) - it is one thing if Neil, the Editor, or the publisher gives you permission to do so. It is illegal and wrong. University students illegally photocopy or copy software all the time. A lack of moral fortitude in respect anothers efforts in publishing in any form is not "kind", "considerate", or "helping out another" - you are not respecting the copyright of the publisher but instead commiting a felony when you distribute or produce copyrighted material without the publishers permission.

If this angers you, I am sorry but this is the difference between having and lacking ethics.

Dave

[metal mite]

Martin,
Bless you my son, for you have sinned.
Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.
Heard that somewhere.
mite

[Martin]

Interesting perspective...
I guess those 4 years in college spoiled me.
Because any report assigned by the professor was required to have attached to it the photocopied material from which it was written/resourced. I guess there is a lot of illegal activities going on at Kent State...
Forgive me, for I have sinned.

[Rotate]

My 2cents worth on the topic of photocopying.

The courts have ruled that you can make copies of copyrighted material under the fair use clause. It basically says that if the copy is used for research, education, and other non-commerical purpose AND it does not rob the copyright holder of commerical benefit, then it may be copied. Cleary, if you copied an entire article out of a magazine for a friend and by doing so, you're friend no longer need to purchase a back issue of that magazine, then you have clearly violate the the copyright law and it does not meet the requirements of the fair use clause. Your friend can obviously argue that he does not need this information sufficiently to have warranted purchasing a back issue, and this is where it gets fuzzy and the court decides this on a case by case basis. In recognition that copyright laws are violate by the presence of a photocopier at a library, a small portion of the photocopying fee is given to the publishers.

It's a moral decision not a legal one.

Albert

[Thrud]

Albert

I remember a few years back when Microsoft inspected universities and forced people (and Faculties) that had copied software the option of buying it at full retail or immediate prosecution under Canadian, US, and International copyright laws. In is not allowed under International copyright law to duplicate any copyrighted material in ANY form without written consent of the publisher or lapse of effective copyright period.

Some magazines such as Scientific American stated on their contents page that "photocopies and microfiche of any material contained within can be purchased from...". Libraries may be in breach of copyrights by allowing access to photocopiers on their property.

When I was in University my faculty disallowed use of photocopiers except for your own "original" work or express written permission of the publisher was to be included with the photocopies - this was an ejectable offense with no recourse.

When I was selling computers as a VAR I had many people tell me to "just throw on windows" - I said sure I will, but give me your original disks to do it or you will have to purchase it before I will install it. Other VARs and retailers do it - I will not. Having Microsoft up my arse and suing me for $100,000 for each breach of copyright and/or contractual agreement is NOT WORTH IT.

Besides, even scum like Macroslop deserve the fruits of their labour - even if it is for a third rate product. (any similarity to any person, companies, or entity is just coincidence and may be just a parody)

Dave

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 04-02-2002).]

[Martin]

This venture certainly has made me appreciate the groups I choose to associate with. In asking for help in this "Networking" section, I receive only reasons why help can not be offered. I can buy help 24 X 7 just about anywhere. But then where does that set this group apart from the rest. "Networking" means....well you look it up...
Taking the initiative and saying "sure, I can help..what do you need?" is what makes a group worth being a part of. I belong to a motorcycle club. In this group when any person, member or not, posts a message looking for help, it takes quite some time to read through the numerous responses. Many people offer to send parts from all over the U.S. to assist.
There are no excuses, only offers to assist. I honestly feel sorry for the listers here. You do not realize what you are missing. And eventhough it may be a crime to some extent, of the 8 motorcycle manuals I do have, I do not hesitate to scan and send sections of those manuals to those in need. I have traded and freely sent motorcycle parts to people I never have or will meet. And the same has been reciprocated.
As for my request for help, please forget it. It has not been that difficult to locate someone willing to assist.
Enjoy your group, and I certainly hope there has been some light shed on areas for improvement.
Do not misunderstand me, I will continue to offer help on this BBS where I can and hopefully the spirit will become contagious and spread. And when I am able I will subscribe to the magazine and rest assured, if someone would ask for an article, I would again offer it up to those in need.
Martin

[Rotate]

Hi Martin,

This is merely my opinion. Because this BBS is hosted by a publisher, we need to be a little sensitive on the topic of copyright. Yes, I understand exactly what you mean by motorcycle clubs. I use to belong to a BMW motorcycle club where members all over the world would offer their home address in the directory so that other fellow BMW riders could drop by. Many offered repair service, parts, coffee, and some even offered night over for free. I think that level of camaraderie doesn't exist in HSM or at least not that kind. I think the very nature of machining as a hobby does not lend itself to being a group activity. After all I can't say to my machining buddy, "let go turn together". Actually, the sound of that makes me squirm a little. That's because the actual machining part of this hobby is a very private affair. Sure, machinist groups get together once a month and share ideas and show off their creations, but that's the limit of their sharing. When the meeting is over, we all return to our dungeon and see if we can master the spell that we learned. I for my part have been amazed by the level of support and thoughtful words that have been spoken on this board.

Albert

[wallyw]

If I steal your new Digital calipers it is clearly theft and you all would raise hell.

How is it that stealing your software, magazine article, video, or book section is considered "cooperation"?

Wally
reformed user of copyright materials

[Thrud]

Martin

If you ask on this board almost anything you will get many answers and maybe a little humor thrown in once in a while. There are many people who sometimes go way out of their way to answer questions or settle points in discussions. Many offer extensive help to others. We do what we can to help each other. Machining is a solo experience.

Village Press is working on releasing a CD-Rom of back issues as soon as the legal hassles get ironed out they will be available. I myself have resorted to buying their hardcover books to get many of the articles in back issues - I do not mind that, at least it is available.

I understand your frustration about the issue of photocopies, but as I said, if you contact Village Press they may be able to accomidate you in one way or another. They are just a quick email or toll free call away...

[lynnl]

Martin, Betcha didn't plan on swattin' a hornet's nest when you posted yr initial messg didya?
If you still need a turned blank for a flycutter, and you're not too picky about that 3" dia then I'll help you. I've got some stock (of unknown ancestry from local metal salvager) that I thinks's pretty close to 3". Or I noticed in a different posting that you have access to cast iron scraps -did you want to use that? If you're still interested email me w/specs so I'll know we're thinking along same lines.

I don't need one myself (made a nice one in a class I took). But I might take you up on your offer to obtain some C.I. from your source sometime. Incidentally the one I made in the class has a second vertical slot for mounting a tool bit vertically at the peripherery of the tool. Only one like that I've ever seen, but then there's a lot I've never seen.

Lynn (lynnl@mindspring.com)

Oh, one other caveat - I've yet to do my IRS ritual this year so it may be a couple of weeks or so before I can get it done.

[Martin]

Lynn,
Thank you for your offer.
I would like to take you up on it.
Commenting on the hornets nest at this point would serve no positive outcome, but you are correct, I never figured....
I would imagine just about any decent steel would be o.k. for a fly cutter.
I honestly don't know if cast iron would be o.k. or not. I have never played with making tooling out of cast. I have made plenty of steam engine parts out of cast with great results.
I have plans (non copy writed) for the fly cutter, which I can get to you a couple of different ways. I can post them on my web site or I can just send you a copy.

Basically the cutter face is 2.5 diameter X 1" thick. The shank is .750 X 2" long. There is a 3/16" radius at the shank/face intersection. The rest is milling and drilling.

I would be interested in knowing about the knotch on the cutter for the vert. tool.
A couple of weeks is fine.

As for your cast iron needs, let me know what you are looking for.
The largest diameter of cast I have seen is about 16" down to 2". The larger diameters are of course much thinner. Usually 2" to 3" thick. The smaller diameters can go as long as 3' to 4'. The squares are usually 2" sq on the small side up to 12" square. Again lengths can vary.
Just let me know...
Again thank you.
Martin

[Clutterpeg]

I am a recent newcomer to this BBS and find it enjoyable and informative and I concur with Alberts statement as to the support and shared info given to those of us asking for it, sometimes with a little humour thrown in for good measure
Dave.

[KVollert]

Martin

To expand on JCHannum's response about turning with the mill. One trick that is useful is to hold a lathe tool bit in the milling vise and chuck your blank in the spindle, now by moving the table (the tool post) you have a "vertical lathe".

Thanks Keith

[lynnl]

Martin, if you're still needing the flycutter blank send me your email (my email address is above) and mailing address. I'm understanding that you want the body (excluding the 2" X .750 shank) to be 2.5" dia by 1" long. Is that right?

[JCB]

Martin,I know you've already gotten offers but if you're still in need of the turned portion of your flycutter let me know.I've some cold rolled just lying around.I think you can find my E-mail address at the top.

[Thrud]

Jeez, how many flys you need to cut, anyway?

[Martin]

Well I could actually use a couple, because if I syncronize and lock the twin spindles on my Bridgeport I can make a 18" pass with both cutters going at the same time...
Thanks for asking...
Martin

[C. Tate]

I wish somebody would just loan him the @#@#$%% magazine. Magazines make the bulk of their money from advertising not subscriptions.

[This message has been edited by C. Tate (edited 04-25-2002).]

[This message has been edited by C. Tate (edited 04-25-2002).]

[msrm]

Martin, I would like to get some cast iron
from you but your email address is not in
your profile. Check my profile and email me
with a mailing address or a phone number.
I thought the bashing you took about you know
scared you off. Welcome back!!!!

[Thrud]

Martin
Seen a pic of a twin head bport but never in the flesh. I understand they made one with three heads and called it the "Cerebus project" but it kept biting the hand that fed it and they had to put it down. ;-)

P.S. How big are these flys you want to cut? I like to pin their wings down and hear 'em scream first... (It's a joke, relax. I squish them like everone else - with my truck)

[Martin]

Regardless of any tongue lashing, it would take more than that to make me cut and run...
Besides, I get half of my kicks by stirring the pot...
I guess you could call me a thought provoker or just provoking.....both fit....
Thanks