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wierdscience
01-29-2003, 09:36 PM
Have any of you guys/gals had problems with carpral tunnel disorder and what has been the most help?

Thrud
01-30-2003, 03:56 AM
I have it in both hands from my death grip on a steering wheel in a head on collision.

I lost almost all the power in both hands. After several years the right has come back to about 60% of what it was. Although it is considered above average for males my age (140Kg grip). My left hand still goes numb - it varies from real bad to tolerable, but the grip is only 40% of the right hands grip (60Kg). The left arm also goes numb at the shoulder sometimes.

First thing to try is anti-inflamitory drugs. If this does not work try accupuncture FIRST before considering surgery. Once you have the surgery, you are screwed. Accupuncture can cure most cases - I found this out AFTER it was too late! So explore all your options first.

Also, if you do have the surgery do not get both wrists done at the same time unless you have someone to wipe your butt for you - because you will not be able to if your life depended on it.

If you got it, I feel for you, it is a pain in the...hands, arms, elbows, shoulders and ASS! I know one mechanic that has had nine operations and can no longer turn wrenches because of it.

burnlast
01-30-2003, 11:10 PM
I have some problems with Carpral Tunnel.Luckily I have a doctor that doesn't believe in surgery unless all other options fail.He told me to wear wrist supports at night while sleeping.According to him most people who have it,curl their hands around when they sleep wrist supports prevent this .Took about 6 weeks before I noticed any difference.Wore them to bed for 3 months after that.Haven't had any problems since.

Burnlast!!!

wierdscience
01-30-2003, 11:54 PM
Good info after 15 years -o-hand wheels my right wrist will puff up if I do much drilling in the lathe think I might convert the ones at work to a lever/handwheel feed.My boss says I am a puss becuase he's 68 and I'm 32 but then again most ME's don't see to many machines after school.Iv'e also been told its the mileage not the yers that wear things out! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gifAsprin has helped thus far and it doesn't hurt a lard butt like me to take a little anyway but like you guys everybody I have talked to says no dice on surgery think I'll say the same.

merf23
01-31-2003, 02:26 PM
Dont perform self diagnosis! Things like "pinched nerves" in the neck, diabetes, chemotherapy and more can cause numbness/burning pins-n-needles in hands.
Splints, antiinflammatories, accupucture and physical therapy can all help. Splints, however, wont make a brain tumor disappear. Surgery provides mixed results. Also nerves dont heal too quickly; even after release of pressure/forces they can continue to heal for 2 years or more

lynnl
01-31-2003, 03:16 PM
That term "pinched nerve" is a euphemism for 'we don't what the hell is causing your pain, so we'll make up some good sounding reason..' Same with "slipped disc" (herniated disk), how the hell can it slip. It's encased in tissue for christsake. Granted, they do become herniated, but that's a benign condition... there's as many with no pain as 'with'. My carpal tunnel pain (if that's what it is, and from the descriptions I hear and read, it is) is a function of tension. How do I know that? Because I can make it go away with my thoughts and emotions!!!
Try this. Start paying attention and noticing if your pain ever subsides or disappears during intensely emotional periods such as laughter, joy, happiness, or tender loving times such as holding a grandchild, etc. If it does (and I bet that it will), then it's tension induced. This is tension below the conscious level. (Mostly it's anger... below the surface.) However it can be influenced by conscious thought. It is this same process that's probably responsible for almost all chronic pain, all over the body, as well as a lot of other mysterious, chronic symptons that have been given long fancy names.
I claim no credit for discovering this. I was just fortunate enough to discover the books written by Dr. John Sarno, and was in such pain (sciatic and back) that I was willing to try anything. And as preposterous as his ideas first appeared, I tried them and it worked just like he claimed. Along with relief from the sciatica and back pain, the carpal tunnel and elbow and neck pains all largely went away too. (Plus nightly heartburn, and what had been diagnosed as mild diverticulitis, and a whole host of other ailments, mostly mild.) I know and understand the skepticism most will read this with. I don't blame you. But I know what I'm talking about. The experience was unmistakeable, and duplicateable ... at will.

Just a coincidence, but a Time Magazine special issue, 20 Jan 2003, has a series of feature articles: "How Your Mind Can Heal Your Body". The articles, which I haven't finished all, describe research and a shift in medical thinking toward viewing the mind and body as One. Evidence is mounting that even conditions like heart, diabetes, cancer, etc. may well be found to mentally/emotionally affected.

[This message has been edited by lynnl (edited 01-31-2003).]

[This message has been edited by lynnl (edited 01-31-2003).]

ShavingMaker
01-31-2003, 06:54 PM
And, if mind control doesn't work, try a big magnet. Works for me.

wierdscience
01-31-2003, 07:30 PM
I have been to a doctor and got a second opinion from another doctor who is my cousin.Carpral tunnel disorder as it is explained to me is when the tendons that run out and connect two your fingers begin to chaff inside of the Carpral tunnel which is located at the center of the wrist looking at your palm.They told me that it can be caused by tearing the tendons in an accident,from bone fragments,and repeditive stress(cranking handwheels for long years)They likened it to dragging a violin bow back'in forth on the strings.Anyway swells up and fells like a ice pick in the wrist.ooch!

Oso
02-01-2003, 12:31 AM
Pinched nerves and hernioated discs are not made-up terms.

A pinched nerve is easily discovered, if you happen (as I did once) to find one day that moving your neck a certain way causes a pain in some remote place. Mine was down an arm, but just in a specific area. It eventually went away, a chiropractor, or better yet, a chinese practitioner, might have got it to go away faster.

Herniated discs extrude the cushioning gunk from inside the disc and pinch either a nerve where it exits the spine, or in sonme cases, I understand they can pinch the spinal cord. Either way they are a problem.

Thrud
02-01-2003, 02:34 AM
Oso:
Word up brother!

With all due respect to Sean, I do not know what you are like as a doctor, but my experiences with docotrs has been mostly very bad. I was fortunate that the only guy that could save my nearly dead ass had his interest piqued as to why everything he did was not working the way it should. Luckily for me, this man of science thought it through and figured it out. I would have been dead otherwise.

For every one like him, there are twenty that should not be allowed to practice just because they don't care, or will not keep up, or think themselves infallable. My Doctor has learned that when I tell him that something is not right - it isn't. I tell him my blood pressure, my testosterone levels, kidney function, HDL/LDL, my blood sugars - all without tests. He says "how do you do that?" I tell him I can "feel it".

wierdscience
02-01-2003, 10:42 AM
Thurd,when I think of Canada I think of snow flakes,trees and mounted police,I don't know much about Canada so correct me if I am wrong in assuming that you guys have some social experiment run amuck up there becuase I live in south Miss.and have met three fine Canadian doctors down here in the past few years.I have to wonder what besides warm weather would draw them this far south?I mean even for doctors the wages suck! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

merf23
02-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the respect, Thrud. I am a podiatrist (foot doc). i do a lot of surgery as well as medical treatments. I have a great interest in all aspects of medicine. During my surgical training, i worked on everything from toes to hearts to noses. Often, patients will ask me about various health problems, unrelated to feet. I spend a lot of time trying to send them in the right direction.
I use a lot of traditional medical treatments and also recommend alternative/homeopathic methods as well. I n fact i have an accupunturist who rents office space from me.
I agree with Lynn on 'emotional healing' When there is pain, emotions or whatever, the body will release endorphins...like built in morphine.
Many problems are not curable by surgery. Some, however are. If you are contemplating surgery, find a doc with a good reputation who you can relate to. Like any profession, some Docs are good some are not. Some have no personality and some hae a good line of BS. SOme like taking care of people (me), some like making a lot of money, some treat patients like science projects.
I tend to do pretty well with my 'working' class patients. I spend my weekends working on race cars, welding, fabricating or whatever. I have worked in shops, i under stand some of the issues.
Traditional medicine has a lot of answers. ALternative medicine has a lot of answers. not every question(or problem) has an answer.
My advice: "Shop" for a doctor the same way you shop for a piece of equipment. Research, ask opnions and use your instinct!

Thrud
02-01-2003, 07:49 PM
WS
Doctors make way, way more money in the US than in Canada. The biggest difference is they do not have to worry as much about malpractice - it is difficult to sue a doctor or hospital here. We are trying to make it better for all Canadians - we believe every citizen has equal rights in medical treatment - money can't by you a heart here, you go on a donor recipient list like everyone else and wait your turn.

For this, my province charges $500/year for a single person - slightly more for a family. No limits on doctor visits, no fees. Dental and lenses is up to you.

Sean
Glad to hear it brother. Good Doctors are very hard to find - just like good mechanics! Keep 'em when you get one...

I, one the other hand, am a lousy patient. Traditionally I never went to a doctor unless something was falling off becuase fo the BS I always get put through.

I was sent to an internest once for assessment of an eye condition - the first words I hear is "you guys that take steroids are all alike..." I have a mesoendomorph body, but I never had taken steroids to get my massive muscles - they were all mine and natural. I was pissed off.

I was sent to an orthopeadic surgeon for assesment by an insurance company. He walks in,looks at me, says "You're fat and diabetic, now lets have a look at you". He never once asked me if I was hurting when he moved me around. Told the insurance company I was faking it and just a fat bastard.

Four years later a real doctor does cat scans and syas "Why didn't your doctor do anything about your back?" Well doctor, probably because - "he was an asshole" - not being a doctor, what would I know about my back hurting, numb legs and feet, a dead weiner, and shooting pains up my legs and spine? After all, I was just "faking" that cracked vertebrae and blown out disk, broken neck and all that other stuff, don't you know.

But I am not bitter, no Sir, not me... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif

Oso
02-01-2003, 10:56 PM
That's about why we dumped the "single payer" system that Clinton tried to put in.

If you are stuck with a fifth-rate jerk of a doctor, what chance do you have? Or if the one person you have to depend on to get treatment just does not like you? Or, like the USPO, if the worker just does not give a d%^n.

Plus, we dumb americans have a way of making everything much more difficult than it has to be. And more expensive.

Luckily there are enough foreign dummies to keep us looking about average.

Robert Jones
02-02-2003, 10:12 AM
Just this week, the two vascular surgeons in the three coast counties here in Miss, went on a "leave of absence" because they cannot afford the price of malpractice insurance. I see two problems here.... insurance providers are thieves, and most doctors are not as noble as they would like us to believe, just in it for the money. Just last week, I had a respected Opthamologist tell me I was too picky because I would like to be able to see at 20/20 with both of my eyes. He got fired.

Wierdscience, where in south Miss are you? I'm in Gulfport, Bobby

Oso
02-02-2003, 10:49 AM
Yeah, I hear that about the eyedoctor.

Does that eyedoctor even wear glasses?

I refuse to go to one who does not use bifocals, they just don't get it. Like a non-driver giving road racing lessons....theory isn't the same thing, and often is wrong.

wierdscience
02-02-2003, 04:34 PM
Well that answers my questions.I do have to say thuogh that I agree with the statement about the insurance guys(real a--holes)don't matter if its health car or other wise.My cousin is a kidney doctor and from what I hear he's got one nurse one receptionist and two people that fight with the bastards.Well as Thrud says rant mode off! Hey Robert J.I'm in Picayune so I guess we're neighbors! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Robert Jones
02-03-2003, 06:13 PM
You're right, Picayune is right close. good to know there's someone close by. Bobby

crypto
02-03-2003, 08:40 PM
Ok, here's my two bits worth of alternative medicine.
During a checkup Doc tells me my blood pressure is too high and that I must do something about it. Gives me some pills. Pills make me dizzy, stop taking them. Get smaller pills but pressure still too high. Then I remember that self hypnosis corrected a speech impediment 40 years ago so I locate a website that sells tapes for corrrecting problems thru self hypnosis.

Bought a tape and in three days dropped my pressure 50 points. Doctor disbelieving checks me out and then says, forget the pills.

The website is (jjbradshaw@aol.com) I also use one these tapes for insomnia.

It works for me.

Oscar

Georgeo
02-03-2003, 09:02 PM
With all respect, Lynll, I've been there, have you? I got a herniated disc one night and couldn't even get to the bathroom. I was hospitallized and had an MRI. Diagnosis--herniated disc (they could see it). Operated on next day, walked around two hours later, no pain. These guys, the good ones, are wonderful The yo-yo's should be executed.
By the way, I told my doc that the operation was a miracle; he says that when they work they're all miracles.
Bless him.
George

wierdscience
02-03-2003, 09:55 PM
Crypto,had trouble with my b.p. too doc says pills I SAYS HELL NO!Too young to always be looking for a place to pee! and I already spend too much time trying to remember peoples names! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Friend said try some galic tablets and exercise b'out week later came down enough to impress doc!Now he recomends it !ought to get a commission! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Thrud
02-04-2003, 03:57 AM
Oscar
My BP is now about 100/65. Thanks to your help. I think not getting too upset at anything has had the best effect on me. Stress was a big problem, but no longer for this bozo.

Peace & grace
Dave

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 02-04-2003).]

lynnl
02-04-2003, 10:37 AM
Georgeo, have I been there? Yes I have. Had excruciating pain in neck and shoulder area for better part of 10 years. Then while getting chiropractic treatment for that I developed lower back and sciatic pain that made the neck pain seem totally insignificant. For almost 3 years had to walk bent over at waist, sometimes could only go a few steps at a time. Had to crawl up the stairs to bedroom. Couldn't stand for more than a few minutes. Lower legs lost strength to point where my feet just flapped like Donald Duck.
During this time saw 7 or 8 different Drs., phys therapists, chiropractors. Had several xrays and MRI, which showed moderate herniation and stenosis of spinal facets, which were said to be pinching the sciatic nerve. Had 3 spinal injections with a catheter stuck about 8 inches up thru the base of the tailbone. Those would help for about 2 or 3 weeks, then pain returned bad as ever. Several times thru that 3 years the sciatica would move from one leg to the other... sometimes after 2 or 3 months, sometimes after 6 or 7 months. That struck me as strange and made me question the pinched nerve theory. Also had a couple of bouts of what was called diverticulitis, during which time the back and sciatic probs would remit. That also seemed strange.

Then one day my wife was watching Rosie O'Donnel's TV program and they were discussing a Dr. John Sarno and his book, "Healing Back Pain". Several people were acclaiming his ideas and attesting to the help they'd received just thru the book. Some of his patients were public figures, such as John Stossel of the 20-20 news program, Howard Stern, Anne Bancroft, and member of the NY Giants football team. They too credited Dr Sarno for their back relief. So I had wife get me a copy. Without a doubt, the best $13.95 (plus tax) that I've ever spent!! I started studying his message for about a week - 10days, and comparing what he had to say with my own experiences. Then one day while sitting on the toilet reading it, his message made perfect sense to me. At the moment I had that thought, my pain started to subside. At that point I realized "My God! He is right!" And with that thought, the hair on the back of my neck stood up and the pain totally evaporated. It was just like turning a light dimmer switch down and extinguishing the light.

Over the next several months, the pain would start back, but by applying the thought processes he prescribes I could turn the pain off completely. As time went on, the pain was less frequent and less intense. Along with my back and sciatic pain, the neck and shoulder pain, and lesser pain in the elbows and hands/wrists also went away. I assure you there was no mistaking the connection between the mental process and the pain control. It was just like sticking your finger in a vise and alternately manipulating the vise handle tighter..then looser. The connection between the handle movement and discomfort would be obvious. Unquestionably so!!

Does the pain ever come back? Yes, occasionally, but rarely and of a minor intensity. And I now realize I know how to abate it, and it's of no real consequence. In truth, it's that realization that keeps it at bay. After all there wasn't anything really healed. There was nothing broken or damaged that required healing. It was instead, an ongoing process. Dr Sarno doesn't really claim (at least in the book) to know with certainty precisely what processes are involved. I won't attempt a complete review of his theory, but he believes that tension at an unconscious level causes localized blood flow restriction and oxygen deficiency. He claims some ten thousand successes (about 85%) since about 1973 when he first started suspecting this process, not to mention the numerous successful experiences he's heard from readers of his books. Of course his success rate is dependent on the patients' willingness to accept his diagnosis. They have the control.. not him.

What I'm suggesting is a totally non-invasive, non-drug, non-risk alternative that I for one, at least, know to be effective and with merit. Ultimately we're each responsible for our own well being. And I'm not suggesting to anyone that they forego professional madical attention. But I know in my heart of hearts and mind, that mainstream medicine sometimes barks up the wrong tree. Hardly a week goes by without a news story of some previously held medical position being shown to be bunk. Not long ago it was shown that a popular arthroscopic knee surgery procedure was no more effective than a fake surgery.

INTP
02-13-2003, 01:21 AM
I'd really have to be in serious pain to have my hands/wrists operated on (again). About 4 years ago, I had a ganglion cyst surgically removed from my right wrist. I'd had it drained a couple times before and it was causing problems with just about everything I did. It took care of the cyst, but the scar tissue flares up from time to time and I have to take NSAID's for several days to get the inflamation down. I also have a spot on the top of my wrist that feels partially numb, apparently due to a damaged nerve.

I found that 'posture' (of the wrist) helps. By that I mean things like an ergonomic keyboard and being aware of the angle of my wrist during use. I also slept with wrist braces and am certain that it made a difference. Little things like changing the work height can also make a big difference.

lynnl
02-13-2003, 11:15 AM
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lynnl
02-13-2003, 11:18 AM
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crypto
02-18-2003, 01:31 AM
Hi Dave,

Thanks. I'm glad I was of some help.

WS ,

About 15 years ago my wife was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome.------- She takes over most of the writing from here on. Her fingertips were so sensitive that she could not stand to have them touched. She found comfort and healing by wearing wrist braces day and night and never needed surgery. The braces maintained the wrist in a resting position that is half way between the limits of its movement in both directions. To find this resting position rest forearm on a flat surface and place the tips of the fingers on the flat surface in order to raise the knuckles until the heel of the palm, the wrist and the forearm are flattened against the flat surface. She wore the braces at night to make sure that this alignment was maintained while sleeping. As the condition improved she wore them only at night or when physical activity that required a position at either limit of the wrist action would cause a flare-up

She learned to make sure that the hand when resting was always in the proper position and learned to maintain that position when sleeping.

Apparently if the problem arose from bending the wrist back to its limit the pain is usually in the forearm but if it comes from bending the wrist to the forward limit the pain will appear in the finger tips.

We hope this is helpful.

Chris and Oscar

Thrud
02-18-2003, 11:19 PM
Chris and Oscar
I got mine from a death grip on a steering wheel while involved in a head-on crash at relative low speed (under 10mph) in a parking lot. It showed up at first as a dull ache in my shoulder, then progressed down my arm into my hand. I still have problems with both hands.

C. Tate
02-20-2003, 11:25 PM
I have it also. Had the right hand operated on by Dr. Kevin Kelly at Vanderbilt. Same guy that sewed the finger back on after dips#$t turn my lathe on to help.I have worn the wrist support on the left hand. Kelly was right in my opinion you have to cut it to fix it. Just my opinion...

CT

king1302
03-03-2003, 11:18 PM
There are several things which can cause the numbness and tingling in the hands.
1. There are four entrapment points A. carpal tunnel B. The front of the elbow C. the arm pits D. the cervical spine.
There are other conditions which can cause this problem. The above are musculoskeletal in nature but there are medical conditions also someone mentioned diabetes. It can but usually you know that one long before it happens. Most MD's won't find the musculoskeletal ones. A good chiropractor will take care of those. If it is true carpal tunnel I give B6 for it and it usually goes away in about 6 weeks.

milmat1
03-19-2003, 08:30 PM
Numbness ?? I only wish! My hands are terrible, I can't even use a screwdriver for more than a few seconds before my hand cramps and hurts like heck! I don't know what it is but it isn't numbness. As far as i know carpel tunnel causes pain rather than numbness. and is caused by repetitive use of the hand in one position such as holing a screwdriver or a steering wheel, cooks often suffer from it because of holding pans all the time. I thought about surgery but i fear i may loose use altogether. Mine is likely from years of driving the car, as i travel with my job.(live in the darn car!)
Anyway good luck with yours. I hope i can get by for a while longer at least. MATT