Ward No 7 Capstan Lathe

[Herb W]

Anyone here ever run a Ward turret lathe?

Just acquired one...looks like the one at this link http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ward10.htm
Have no experience with this type of lathe, so any hints/tips that can save me from learning things the hard way appreciated!

Know of any particularly good books on the subject of setting up & running a turret lathe?

Herb

[John Stevenson]

Herb, Best books I have seen are the two volume set called Centre, Capstan and Automatic Lathes by Caxton
If you go to http://www.abebooks.com and search under "Centre capstan" you will find 4 sets listed. { note the UK spelling of centre}
A bit pricy but you now know what you are loking for.

John S.

[Thrud]

Herb
Did it come with a roller box? They are used to turn or thread long slender pieces. They have two adjustable rollers opposite a cutter - this thing fits on the turret. Turret tools are hard to come by cheap unless it has sockets installed for MT tooling on the turret. Then they are great gobs of fun! Especially with power feed on the turret - makes drilling big holes easier!

Have fun with the new toy!

[Paul Gauthier]

I have no experience with that type of lathe either but it looks like fun. Lots of levers, I like that.

------------------
Paul G.

[kap pullen]

herb

Turret lathes are great.

Machinists usually don't like them, but if your living depends on production, you can't beat them.

They usually have brute power, can power feed a large drill, and graduations on the carriage traverse wheel.

My old Denver t.l. can power feed a 2" drill thru steel, no muss, no fuss in one shot.

T.L.s are usually nearly given away. Usually near wore out though.

If you got the space, it's nice to have.

Tooling, and books? Look on Ebay.

Kap

[Herb W]

John, thanks! Your recommendations obviously carry some weight here...as of now, only one set of the books left... @ $75 US. Were the other sets in this price range?

Thrud, no such luck... no box tools, no die heads, no slide tools... one mt adapter w/live center.
Guess I'll need to do some scrounging!
From what I've seen, there was a lot of tooling developed for these machines.

Paul, oh yeah! When I went to look at it, didn't take long for me to decide that I "needed" it.

kap, I don't do production work, but do sometimes need to make numbers of pins, bushings, fasteners etc, so, I think the old Ward will be a useful addition to the shop.
It has some nice features and as you say, looks to have plenty of power, & rigidity to match. BTW, don't know that I've ever seen a Denver. Do you have a pic of it on your site?

[Thrud]

Herb
We are starting to sound like crows - sparkklies and buttons to push! Or a Child activity centre for a crib! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Speaking of tool lust. I was at an open house today and had a nice chat with an Lyndex Engineer. I asked what steel they used for the heat shrink chucks and the answer was "High grade Die steel". Which one is anyones guess as they ain't squeeling. They just came out with collet chucks with round nuts - they require a one-way roller bering wrench. This improves balance. The also came out with toolholders than can be adjusted for TIR by twisting a sleeve. The discussion then degraded into tools as "works of art" - I have always had a keen appreciation for equisite tools, but I would never buy a painting or sculpture. I know, I am a sick puppy... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[John Stevenson]

Herb,
Yes they were all about this price, too much IMO. The first book deals with centre lathe work and the second is on Capstan and Turret lathes.
I had a Herbert book but let a guy who had bought one have it. I'll keep looking for you.

Thrud,
On tool holders. My old Beaver CNC mill had a ISO 40 spindle taper and a roller bearing clutch below this to drive the holders. The holders were special in that they only had a plain diameter that was driven by the roller bearing clutch. This was so the auto tool changer didn't have to register a tool. It just popped it up the spout and the clutch drove it instead of dogs.

John S.

[Herb W]

Thrud, "starting to sound like crows"... no no no, this is a serious discussion about a piece of machinery that is expected to earn it's keep.

Oh, did I mention that the Wards have these real cool stainless steel way covers? They're a little dull on the No 7 right now, but once I clean them up I'm sure they're going to be very shiny http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Not to worry. If a guys gotta be afflicted with something, there's lotsa worse things than tool lust!

John, thanks again! Received a book today that I had ordered through abe a few days ago...Turret Lathe Operator's Manual - by the Warner & Swasey Co. 1940ish Just skimmed through it and it looks like a good one. Lots of workholding & tooling setups, step by step example parts etc.

Also, the fellow I bought the lathe from found the Ward book that came with it. Similar to the W & S book - not specific to the machine, but a general turret lathe manual. Also good but not nearly as substantial as the W & S one.

I'll likely still buy a set of those Caxton books sooner or later...

[Thrud]

Herb
Best to not wait if you can, rare books have a habit of never coming up when you need them. Glad to hear the "good excuse" for buying it. If I only had some room, I would go nuts...

John
It was interesting to talk to the Lyndex Engineer because I would never have thought that the wrench flats or grooves cut into the collet nut cause such a bad imbalance condition. They set up micro imbalances that definately affect tool life. These new smooth nuts directly address this. They also purchased a UK OEM that had a round nut with two wrench grooves 1/32" wide for 30K rpm tooling.

There is also a Cold shrink system in the US that uses a "Mystery metal" but the capacity on this system is limited to 12.6mm but good to 30K rpm.

[Herb W]

re the wrench flats causing imbalance. I don't get it. If the flats are symmetric and cut properly, why would they cause imbalance?
Nother question - what kind of cutting tools can handle 30k rpm? (unless they're teeny tiny things)

BTW re the books: sooner or later turned out to be sooner. Checked abe this a.m. - lo and behold, another set of the lathe books by caxton and at a lower price... nabbed them of course.

[This message has been edited by Herb W (edited 11-11-2002).]

[John Stevenson]

Herb,
Be interested in a comparison report between the W&S book and the Caxton ones when you get them.

John S.

[kap pullen]

herb,
Don't have a picture.
I THINK dENVER WAS A WAR baby.
The spindle is cast iron and headstock is bolted and pinned. Made to wartime specs with gvt tags.
That one is really rough but for fifty bucks, who cares.
It'll swing 20 "
It you get a Warner and Swasey, J & L or other good name, it'll machine circles around an engine lathe on chuck work.
There's no comparison.
On center or steady work, the engine wins hands down."
Machinists now wanna run the
Hardinge toolroom lathe or the Bridgeport.

Some guy brought by some studs he was trying to thread with a carbide incert tool on the cnc one time.
Couldn't do it because of the deflection.
Soon as he left, I had the geometric die head out in the bridgeport spindle.
Set the parts in a "v" vise jaw and had the job done in minutes.
Didn't call him back for two days.
Couldn't make it look like it was too easy.

Why the bridgeport? The turret slides are worn on my turret lathes, and you get a tapered thread.

kap

[Thrud]

Herb
Most of the HSM (High Speed Machining) spindles are a 30 taper with a maximum endmill size of .500" @ 30Krpm.

In theory they are cut properly, in practice and at 30K rpm a small difference is a big difference. Apparently precision machining is not as precise as it has to be. I am sure that we will learn many new strange behaviours of tools as the rpms creep ever higher. Despite their "precision machining" of the parts, this was not good enough. A leasson that perplexed them for some time (as it did the endmill maker they worked with) before they figured out what was causing the problems.

They "could not see the forrest for the trees" - so to speek. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif