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View Full Version : Good job Neil & Village Press



JCHannum
03-24-2006, 06:24 PM
A lot of people seem to forget that Village Press is in the business of selling magazines, books and other publications. They make their income from the sales of these publications and the advertising in them.

This bulletin board is a free service for their readers, and as a matter of fact possibly actually takes away some business from them.

I for one am very appreciative of the forum, and the work involved in keeping it up and running. That the task is thankless can be no better illustrated by some of the responses to the recent changes. I apologize for the thoughtlessness of some of the members.

For the most part it is a change for the better. It was accomplished as planned and pretty much on schedule with no major foul ups or loss of information. I am sure a lot of time and effort was expended to pull it off.

As with any change, there will be tuning involved to get it into final shape, but it is functional as it is, and we can all enjoy the benefits while these changed are made.

Thanks for a good job on the changeover and for your and your staff's hard work in providing us with this forum. Many of us do appreciate it. Don't let the few complainers discourage you.

banjoallen
03-24-2006, 06:48 PM
I second that!

Allen

japcas
03-24-2006, 07:03 PM
I totally agree JC. Some of the guys complained and said that the old system sucked, now some are saying this one sucks before they even try to learn it. Just try it for a while and check out some of the new features the old one was missing and I think you will grow to like it. I think it looks fine and will be great after everyone gets used to it.

RPease
03-24-2006, 07:45 PM
Jim.....

You make it sound as though people should actually "APPRECIATE" when an organization (like Village Press &/or HSM) does something like providing a "FREE" forum for (relatively) like-minded individuals to exchange ideas and shoot-the-s--t.

Well..........that might be fine for people on civilized worlds, but it "ain't gonna happen" on this planet. We've got "way too many whiners and opinionated individuals" (a lot of them on this board) to allow that to occur.

I think I'll just sulk and throw a tantrum until Neil admits that he's part of a global conspiracy intent on destroying our selfish and unreasonable desires to have our own way........

Shame.....Jim.........shame............LOL

BTW..........in case "some" can't figure this out.......I'M BEING FACETIOUS.........

Looks okay from this "old fart's" view, Neil...........Regards.....RPease

Too_Many_Tools
03-24-2006, 09:55 PM
I would agree that Neil and the crew deserve congratulations for the update....but many of the issues being raised are valid ones.

While it is true that this BBS is "free", one also needs to recognize that it is available to serve as a catalyst to sell even more books and magazines.

When your customers are unhappy, sales will not be increased. Hopefully the people responsible for this BBS will acknowledge this and do what they can to service the issues being addressed.

For me, the #1 issue is SPEED...when you waste my time with slow loading, execessive graphics, "fluff" features that do not help convey the information on this board, etc....then you have me as a dissatisfied customer. Hopefully HSM will do what they can to address this problem...a problem that will affect ALL dialup users.

Thanks again for the support given so far and I look forward to better (and faster) times in the future.

TMT

BillH
03-24-2006, 10:27 PM
So what method is neil going to use to remove those pretty deep kiss marks on his ass?
Im affraid he may have to build up the indentation with a mig bead and grind it flush.

pgmrdan
03-24-2006, 11:18 PM
I'm not naive enough to say it "is a free service for their readers." The forum feature of this website is a service supported by our purchases from Village Press. It is paid for by their readers. It is only free for the rest. It draws people to the website where things are sold. I assume that (maybe somewhat indirectly) it's intended to help make money for VP.

Personally, I don't like this new format. I did like the previous format much better.

The old forum software was also free (in the same sense) to us so why the change?

Unless this one is somehow cheaper for VP to maintain or draws in more magazine subscriptions or other sales I don't see the purpose of switching to this forum software.

Yes, I appreciate the website and the efforts of Neil and Village Press but that doesn't mean I have to like the new forum software as much as the old software. All of us are entitled to an opinion. And as long as I'm helping to support this website and VP by buying subscriptions to two of their magazines and occasionally buying a book I feel I have a right to let them know when I don't like a change that they have made.

-Dan

ulav8r
03-26-2006, 01:45 AM
I was one of the first to complain. I still have the same gripes. It can still be a good bulletin board with a few adjustments.

It is one of my favorites and I will stay as long as there is good participation and not too much wasted bandwidth. Some say the change went as planned. How do you know? Neil hinted that a change might be coming. A few days later the board went down with no warning as I hit the back key to return to the general board. Evan's post the next afternoon on PM said it was back, but my old link did not work. The new link was posted a little later. When I came back to it there were no explanations or instructions on how to use the features. Some apparently can figure out part of the problems offer a little help, but the biggest problem is still the display width that only an administrator can fix.

J Tiers
03-26-2006, 02:33 AM
I'm not naive enough to say it "is a free service for their readers." The forum feature of this website is a service supported by our purchases from Village Press. It is paid for by their readers.


Yep, I pay for some of it myself.

But quite a number of the more "vocal" members here do NOT subscribe..... at least according to their own statements.




Personally, I don't like this new format. I did like the previous format much better.


agree, although I think the right adjustments would make this bloatware work reasonably well in spite of itself.




The old forum software was also free (in the same sense) to us so why the change?


Because this works with advertisements, or have you not noticed them yet?



Yes, I appreciate the website and the efforts of Neil and Village Press but that doesn't mean I have to like the new forum software as much as the old software. All of us are entitled to an opinion. And as long as I'm helping to support this website and VP by buying subscriptions to two of their magazines and occasionally buying a book I feel I have a right to let them know when I don't like a change that they have made.

-Dan

Yep, agree.

I don't grudge them the ads. After all now the non-subscribers have to look at them just like us subscribers (who at least partially fund this site) do.

JCHannum
03-26-2006, 07:52 AM
BillH might learn the meaning of gratitude at some point in his life, and then the simple act of thanking someone and complimenting him for a job well done will have some meaning.

This understanding comes after being kicked in the teeth after busting your chops to get some thankless job completed. Employment and marriage are a couple of places where it can be gained.

As far as the forum being free, it does not cost me or anyone else a thing. That is free.

The PM site recently tied in with American Machinist magazine. The purpose is to continue to support it. Prior to that, some members were contributing to help keep it going. It will have more advertising, as this one may also have, but it will still require nothing out of pocket to enjoy the benefits. That is free.

Neil quite clearly stated the forum was going down on 3/23 for upgrades. It was down for a day and a half. That is not too long for a change like this to be accomplished. PM went through similar problems when making changes a couple of weeks ago. They have yet to get everything back.

I am sure we are seeing a patch put up to carry through the weekend, and provide us with the board while other fixes are implemented. The attitude of a few is surprising, and disappointing, rather than being thankful for the efforts expended to get us to this point, we are hearing nothing but whining.

I wonder if all their projects are perfect the first time, or if they have never broken a tap.

torker
03-26-2006, 08:36 AM
I think Neil deserves a salute for trying to meet us in middle. Over the years many have complained about the site and have had ideas to change it into other boards with 15,000 different catagories etc.
I really don't see the big deal.
People ranting and leaving the board over THIS!
I'm actually suprised at the reaction of some.
I'm sure Neil will do his best to rectify the problems.
BTW..I'm one who doesn't subscribe. I'd buy the magazines in a heartbeat but nobody here will bring them in and the mailorder magazines seldom make it this far or if they do they are months late as every postal worker in the system reads them :(
Russ

TECHSHOP
03-26-2006, 09:06 AM
I get the magazines at the newstands, I used to have to "hunt" then down, but the last few years they have went "mainstream". My collection is by no means complete. Village Press is a publishing company, I think they print for other people, not just the the HSM, MW(PIM), and Live Steam. I have always thought that this web site was about 15, on their 1 to 10 list of things to do at the office today. I think the "upgrade" involved more than just the software, like a complete "redo/update" of their computer system. I think Neil and VP are doing the best that they are able, and will continue to "fine tune" the upgrade. Basing much of my guessing on having interacted with the people involved at shows, by reading the editorial in the mags, and what little e-mail exchange I previously had with Neil/VP.

Patience grasshopper, they don't work on the weekend.

John Stevenson
03-26-2006, 09:12 AM
BillH might learn the meaning of gratitude at some point in his life, and then the simple act of thanking someone and complimenting him for a job well done will have some meaning.

This understanding comes after being kicked in the teeth after busting your chops to get some thankless job completed. Employment and marriage are a couple of places where it can be gained.

As far as the forum being free, it does not cost me or anyone else a thing. That is free.

The PM site recently tied in with American Machinist magazine. The purpose is to continue to support it. Prior to that, some members were contributing to help keep it going. It will have more advertising, as this one may also have, but it will still require nothing out of pocket to enjoy the benefits. That is free.

Neil quite clearly stated the forum was going down on 3/23 for upgrades. It was down for a day and a half. That is not too long for a change like this to be accomplished. PM went through similar problems when making changes a couple of weeks ago. They have yet to get everything back.

I am sure we are seeing a patch put up to carry through the weekend, and provide us with the board while other fixes are implemented. The attitude of a few is surprising, and disappointing, rather than being thankful for the efforts expended to get us to this point, we are hearing nothing but whining.

I wonder if all their projects are perfect the first time, or if they have never broken a tap.

Thanks Jim, I think that says it all especially the bit about the patch.
Until the new board come up how will VP know how it's accepted by many different users, with different browsers on different operating systems ?
They have to start somewhere.

Dr. Rob
03-26-2006, 09:16 AM
As someone pointed out on another thread: "We also don't need avatars, member ratings or thread ratings."

Oh halleluya, thank you. I'm inclined to agree. And please, not crowds of clownish multiple smileys or stacks of repeating reply-with-quote boxes, or witty tag-on signatures...

This software we're using has a long list of available options. If we get the whole option package, we get boards that look like this: A nightmare of illegible clutter. (don't bother to read it-- just imagine if our board looked like this for example)

http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14733

So really, the folks in charge have chosen a rather reasonable alternative of modern BBS software; this is what they look like nowadays. And I might add that the Chaski board folks were complaining about is also fully modernized and well functional, legible and utilitarian-- far far better than what it used to be.

So thank you Neil and VP. Looking forward to some fine-tuning and learning the new board.

J Tiers
03-26-2006, 10:50 AM
That fishing one doesn't seem too bad......

Try this one on......

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=15

Dig the flashing advert.....

I do feel that those of us who pay for this, in part at least, can complain without needing to feel guilty about the "free" deal...........

mochinist
03-26-2006, 11:02 AM
As someone pointed out on another thread: "We also don't need avatars, member ratings or thread ratings."

Oh halleluya, thank you. I'm inclined to agree. And please, not crowds of clownish multiple smileys or stacks of repeating reply-with-quote boxes, or witty tag-on signatures...

This software we're using has a long list of available options. If we get the whole option package, we get boards that look like this: A nightmare of illegible clutter. (don't bother to read it-- just imagine if our board looked like this for example)

http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14733

So really, the folks in charge have chosen a rather reasonable alternative of modern BBS software; this is what they look like nowadays. And I might add that the Chaski board folks were complaining about is also fully modernized and well functional, legible and utilitarian-- far far better than what it used to be.

So thank you Neil and VP. Looking forward to some fine-tuning and learning the new board.I like avatars, and signatures. Why ruin it for us that like it and have high speed connections, when if you took five minutes of your time, you could go switch all that stuff off.

http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bbs9az.jpg

John Stevenson
03-26-2006, 11:03 AM
I do feel that those of us who pay for this, in part at least, can complain without needing to feel guilty about the "free" deal...........

In that case I'll get Ower Gert to comment on this BBS, after all she spent over $2,000 with VP last year.
Does that give her a say over us ??

jr45acp
03-26-2006, 11:08 AM
I more than agree that Neil and his crew deserve a very warm welcome and thanks for their efforts. I spent 30 years in U.S. Federal Law Enforcement and change is certainly not a new concept for this old dude. My sincere thanks to Village Press for this, and yes, I am a subscriber as well.

Dr. Rob
03-26-2006, 11:18 AM
Mochinist, you're ahead of me... I (used to) visit a lot of forums, and never found the feature that let me change the format or content of posts, like signatures, multiple reply boxes, avatars... Where do you find that? Does it depend on the specific forum and / or the software they use?

Thanks for the link; I've just been too blind to see.

& ps, no, nothing against avatars per se; it's just that too much of a good thing adds up... those forums above have 90 % page space spent on ??? and 10 % is actual post text. That's all.

mochinist
03-26-2006, 11:26 AM
Mochinist, you're ahead of me... I (used to) visit a lot of forums, and never found the feature that let me change the format or content of posts, like signatures, multiple reply boxes, avatars... Where do you find that? Does it depend on the specific forum and / or the software they use?

Thanks for the link; I've just been too blind to see.

& ps, no, nothing against avatars per se; it's just that too much of a good thing adds up... those forums above have 90 % page space spent on ??? and 10 % is actual post text. That's all.It is usually in user cp unde edit o[ptions. I could be wrong but most forums I visit you can customize them like that.

DFMiller
03-26-2006, 11:29 AM
Thanks Neil and VP. I really appreciate the service you provide. I find this Forum both entertaining and informative. I sure with time all of the issues will be resolved. I have noticed several have already been improved. I think this Forum really meshes well with your publications and I enjoy reading both HSM and MW.
I have a browser page always open here to keep in touch.

Dave

Dr. Rob
03-26-2006, 11:32 AM
Yup, that's right. Found it in the meantime.

For anyone interested:

USER CP up on the top bar on the left > CONTROL PANEL > SETTINGS & OPTIONS > EDIT OPTIONS click them boxes.

now, about the reply-with-quote boxes...

J Tiers
03-26-2006, 12:06 PM
Yup, that's right. Found it in the meantime.

For anyone interested:

USER CP up on the top bar on the left > CONTROL PANEL > SETTINGS & OPTIONS > EDIT OPTIONS click them boxes.

now, about the reply-with-quote boxes...

None of those options get the display to full width, nor fix the other issues I have.... I can turn off avatars, or choose never to see ths posted pics, but I can also choose never to visit, that would turn off the pics too..... not useful, the pics are part of what it is about here......

BillH
03-26-2006, 02:04 PM
Why all this praise now, after the software upgrades? Your not being sincere to yourself when you applaud at this time, a failure. You had plenty of time to applaud for past couple of years.
I just want to laugh, I've seen the same types with the model airplane clubs. "OOOH theres the land owner, lets run over there and kiss his ass and demean ourselves and boost his ego, then later go home and wash the cow crap off our airplanes because we fly in a cow pasture."
Hey, I appreciate this forum very much and the bandwidth neil is paying for, however there are serious issues that need to be worked out. And doesnt it seam a little irresponsible to do this upgrade on a Friday then completely ignore the board all weekend long? What ever, everyone has their legion of fanboys.

pgmrdan
03-26-2006, 02:17 PM
JCHannum said, "As far as the forum being free, it does not cost me or anyone else a thing. That is free."

If you believe that then I'll bet you think TV is free too, which it isn't.

JCHannum
03-26-2006, 02:48 PM
I haven't watched regularly scheduled TV in over 30 years. I occasionally watch when visiting someone who has it on. The last time I made a point of turning it on was to watch a couple of the Bush-Kerry debates.

I do not have any more disposable income available as a result of this.

I do visit this forum frequently. I do not have any less disposable income available as a result.

How is that not free?

pgmrdan
03-26-2006, 04:22 PM
"How is that not free?"

You are joking aren't you???

Whether or not you watch TV, every time you buy a product that is advertised on TV you're paying for TV.

The only reason TV stations (not PBS stations, well sort of) exist is to sell advertising time. That's how they make their money. That's why TV show ratings are so important. The higher the ratings, the more they can charge for advertising time during that show.

Everytime you buy a product that is advertised on TV the cost of advertising on TV is built into the price of the product. You pay for that product's advertising which, in turn, pays for TV. YOU PAY FOR TV when you buy products advertised on TV whether or not you watch TV.

Likewise, you pay for this website and its services when you buy the products advertised on this website. Or if you buy products advertised in VP magazines, whether or not you subscribe to VP magazines or use this website, you're paying for the advertising of that product, which in turn, pays VP, which helps to pay for this website.

Don't think about it too much or you'll start coming up with stuff that you never knew you were supporting. 'Hmmm! Are M&M chocolate candies advertised in Hustler magazine? If so, I'm supporting Hustler magazine every time I buy M&Ms even though I would never buy Hustler magazine.' See what I mean?

IOWOLF
03-26-2006, 05:09 PM
As a subscriber to both magazines since the early 90"s I feel I have earned the right to this board free or not.
Your feelings May differ.

pgmrdan
03-26-2006, 05:27 PM
IOWOLF, You have that right just like I have a right to my hand powered tools!

Do I hear an AMEN? :D

meho
03-26-2006, 05:28 PM
"Likewise, you pay for this website and its services when you buy the products advertised on this website. Or if you buy products advertised in VP magazines, whether or not you subscribe to VP magazines or use this website, you're paying for the advertising of that product, which in turn, pays VP, which helps to pay for this website."

Therefore since I help pay for the electricity and rent on the VP offices perhaps they wouldn't mind if I park my RV there for a few months this summer and hook up to their power?

Maybe with the links at the top of the page this site is now self sustaining and hopefully makes VP some money.

Thanking these people for providing this site in Georgia is not called kissing ass it's called being polite.

James

IOWOLF
03-26-2006, 06:07 PM
Amen,Brother.
But yours burns more calories. ;)

pgmrdan
03-26-2006, 07:50 PM
Yeah, but my gut is still too big! :)

TECHSHOP
03-26-2006, 08:27 PM
Funny thats why I use my people powered drill and brace. When I have to make a hole toward the gut, I figure the ol' brain will stop the hands before the harakari is complete.

Mcgyver
03-27-2006, 01:37 PM
Neil, new board looks good, thanks for making it available, I appreciate it.