High Value Brands

[BobWarfield]

How about a thread telling us the brands of machine tooling that represent a very high value for the home machinist?

Being aware of these brands makes it easier to skate the middle ground between the real costly stuff and the junk that isn't well made. I frequently hear something new on these boards like that but I never remember to jot it down.

For example:

Glanze: Good carbide insert lathe tooling suitable for smaller lathes, made in India. Available from Grizzly in the States and Chronos (?) in UK.

Bison: Good chucks and other tooling. Seems like these are made in Poland?

Also, there are likely machine brands that are a little less well known (and so maybe cheaper in the used market) that are actually very good machines. It would be good to know those names too.

Any ideas?

Best,

BW

[J Tiers]

Also, there are likely machine brands that are a little less well known (and so maybe cheaper in the used market) that are actually very good machines. It would be good to know those names too.

Any ideas?

Best,

BW

I'll vote for Logan as a little-know brand....

Around here, people ask a grand for a beat 9" change gear SouthBend, with no tooling to speak of and no stand. Must be the name. Dunno if they get it, but they try.

OTOH, you can get an 11" QC Logan with a 1 3/8 spindle bore for 2/3 of that cost, and it's probably twice the machine.... Sometimes literally, since it may weigh almost twice as much as some 9" S-B such as my father-in-law's.

BTW, Logan is still supported, with Scott Logan running the company that supports them.....

[DancingBear]

Here's a couple:
Teclock: a Japanese brand of measuring instruments, very nice, reasonable price (relatively).
Chicago Dial Indicator: Real live Americans making <guess what> for prices a good deal less than Starrett's.

Lately for cutting tools I've been going with the 'generic' Made in USA brand. Way better than the 'import' and way cheaper than Triumph, etc.

There's tons of brands of long-defunct machines that might serve us hobbiests just as well as a South Bend or an Atlas. Thing is, parts, manuals, and support may be a real headache to find, and may not be any cheaper, particularly for parts prone to breakage. If a particular machine is in good shape, and has all the really machine-specific accessories you want (steady rest for a lathe, for example), you might score a bargain. Just depends on how confident you are in your ability to deal with any problems that crop up later.

Walt

[tattoomike68]

Tin coated carbide turning inserts made by kennametal have given me long life when turning hard and rough work like flame cut circles and plasm cut stainless circles. I have gotten twice the tool life over el cheapo budget grade inserts.

For tough milling Garr carbide end mills realy chew the metal up, when dull just have them sharpened. They are very spendy but may last a home shop guy years of light use.

[JPR]

The last set of inserts came from American National Carbide . Price was good (2x over the imports) and seem not be as fragile the imports.

[chief]

Standard Modern is still in business (canada) and make an excellent lathe.

[BobWarfield]

Okay, here is what I have so far after sniffing around a bit and from this thread. Sing out if you have some other suggestions. Remember, we're looking for brands that offer a high value. They don't have to be cheap, but they need to be cheaper for equivalent value. A good deal, in other words. They are probably a little less well known or harder to find. They make great things to search for on eBay.

===========

<<< Cheap Quality Imports >>>

Glanze : Indian made carbide insert tooling

Groz, also called Bayard : Indian made vices and tables. Bayard is sold by Penn Tool.

Bison : Great lathe chucks. Polish. Distributed by ToolMex.

Buck : Another great lathe chuck maker.

Lathemaster: A better-quality mini-lathe. Also look for the 8x18 sold by others.

Grizzly: A lot of folks say their quality control is better than some other Asian dealers.

TMX (Toolmex): Indexable tooling. Same guys as sell Bison in the Americas.

<<< Quality European >>>

Deckel : Everyone knows this German brand, which is pricey. What are the alternatives, clones, and knock-offs that are good? For example, Harbor Freight has a knock-off cutter grinder.

Weiler : Supposedly awesome lathes from Germany.

ESAB: French company. Makes great plasma cutters (I have a 1500) that often sell for less than Miller because they’re not as well known in the States. Can anyone comment on their welders?

Sharp's: I have heard they make the best of the Asian Bridgeport knock-offs.

<<< North American Iron >>>

Logan: Great lathes. Can be had for less than South Bend—larger machine for less money. Still being supported too.

Monarch 10EE : Super precision high tech for pre-WWII technology lathe. The electronics for the variable speed are finicky and scare some folks off.

Circle: High quality boring bars at reasonable prices (on eBay anyway). Division of Kennametal.

Keo: High quality cutters at reasonable prices (on eBay anyway)

Garr Carbide Endmills: For tough metal.

Kennametal Inserts: Outlast the knock offs.

American National Carbide: High quality inserts for only about 2x the knock offs in price.

Standard Modern Lathes: Great Canadian lathes and still in business

[Fasttrack]

Thats great! An index / list of good brands for the home shop machinist is great! That can be intimidating and difficult to find parts and tooling; at least for me up here in naperville (a suburb of chicago) I know three-in-one machines get alot of flak here, and usually rightly so, but for buyers who really have no other option but still really want to break into machining, like me, the three-in-one machines can be a cheap introduction into metal working. For three-in-one machines i have found that Smithy is really of much better quality than the comparable HF or Grizzly models and tend to be the same price or cheaper. I think its worth adding to the list as a high value brand even though the products may not be the most desirable or optimal.

p.s. no affiliation w/ smithy but i did purchase one a little while back and have been generally happy with it - still wish i had a full size lathe but no room and other restrictions

[SJorgensen]

It would be hard to find a finer tool than a Wholhaupter. They make a flycutter that I would love to have.

[torker]

Standard Modern is still in business (canada) and make an excellent lathe.

Right on!
They do so. Someday I may have a 10X24 SM. A crime is about to be commited. The local high school is going to get rid of three of these. (choke) They are replacing them with Chinese 9X20's. They already have two of the 9X20's and they look rather silly sitting beside the heavy Standard Modern's.
Nice lathes.
My favourite for the shop has to be Niagra end mills. Lotta money to buy but they are fantastic.

[Peter S]

Both my own lathe and the lathe at work have "Rapid"* quick-change toolposts. I think they qualify as high value, in that after 20-30 years they are like new. That is the benefit of good materials, heat treated.

Also both lathes have "Pratt Burnerd" three-jaw chucks. Expensive, but they are still excellent after all these years. I think they will last forever...

"Seco" carbide tooling is also excellent quality, for example the parting tools use HSS blades so they survive if the insert dies during a cut.

The Seco R220-13 range (probably superceded now) is a very good multi tip cutter for a light vertical mill (BP and clone). We have one around 65mm diameter, the mill can't use it anywhere near full capacity, but it is very handy for facing work.

These are all fairly expensive items, but when you see how they are still as good as new after say 20+ years, you have to think it is good value.

Bob, just re-read what you mean by high value, maybe I am coming at it from a different angle. I wouldn't personally want to have to pay for a Pratt Burnerd chuck nowadays!

*Edit: "Rapid" not "Rigid" - my memory is definitely going....

[Timleech]

ESAB: French company. Makes great plasma cutters (I have a 1500) that often sell for less than Miller because they’re not as well known in the States. Can anyone comment on their welders?

Esab are or were Swedish, multinational or at least Anglo-Swedish now (I think!). There was some tie up between them and Murex, don't know if there still is. I haven't tried their welders, but used to have one of their MIG torches which was far & away the best I've ever used but they dropped it from their line & bits for it became hard to get.

SAF *is* French, or part-French as it's now SAF/Oerlikon, they make good value welding gear, I have a Plasma and a MIG set from them. There's better quality available, but you have to pay for that!

Tim

[BobWarfield]

You're right Tim!

I went and read their web site. The ESAB founder apparently invented the coated electrode for stick welding. Today, they're owned by a British company called Charter. They have regional headquarters in various places. Mine came from near the North America headquarters in South Carolina, hence my thought that its some sort of demo unit. It came hardly used.

In any event, they are great machines, and I'm glad to hear the welders are also quite good. Maybe we will hear more about them after all--they're introducing a Jesse James signature line. I have to laugh about that stuff. Love to watch those chopper shows where they are building the bikes. When I took welding a few years ago at the community college the teacher suggested that if we were there to learn how to build choppers, we would need to grow Fu Manchu mustaches and lift weights for a few years before we could qualify. Gave me a chuckle.

Best,

BW

[Spin Doctor]

Have to agree with the Wohlhaupter boring and facing heads. Regretably I have never seen any S-M lathes, but we had some S-M dial indexing production machines that ran and ran. Small lathes the 10-EE has to be joined by the Hardinge HLV. Just ask anyone that has ever had their hands on one. Just about any of the name brands of HSS lathe tooling provide excellent value for the dollar. Tool post I like Aloris although for general use the piton type knock-offs aren't bad. Small boring tools Internal makes some stuff that is very nice. A nice source for tooling is Swis Precision Instruments http://www.swissprec.com/cgi/issrhm Any number of very nice solutions to problems. Some stuff is kind of pricey but their Antomos (?) off brand isn't bad. Plus they offer a neat source for the person that wants to slavishly copy. They also sell through some of the Do-All outlets.

[John Stevenson]

I like Russian and Eastern Bloc equipment.
It's built like a brick s**t house, has all the functions with no plastic and cuts down on the electric as it glows in the dark

Their version of a South Bend weighs nearly 2 tons