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Joe
05-18-2001, 05:44 PM
I just heard from the publisher of HSM that he is interested in producing a one-year CD (most likely for 2001) that would be made available to the readership. If that was successful, he would then produce a five-year CD (2001 back to 1997). We want to hear from you in regard to his suggestion. Let us know if this sounds like a good plan. What are your hopes and desires?
Thanks,
Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 05-18-2001).]

John Stevenson
05-18-2001, 05:57 PM
I though this was the idea of the previous post that had 122 replies all agreeing with the idea.
What's changed ???

------------------
Regards,
John Stevenson,
Nottingham, England

wwheelock
05-19-2001, 06:27 AM
Since I just started subscribing to HSM I would prefer starting with a year prior to the current year. Just my 2 cents worth.

wwheelock

Glenn
05-19-2001, 11:37 AM
I would love to get archives on CD

Glenn Neff
Medford, OR

MetalMaster
05-19-2001, 07:09 PM
I think that this CD would be an excellent idea, however, incorporated into its design should be a feature to EASILY print article pages onto 8 1/2 x 11 pages with the push of a button, and not have to reformat half the computer to get hard copy to take out to the shop. It seems that this feature is always forgotten by folks that put printed materials onto CD Rom.

risermagic
05-23-2001, 03:22 AM
I belong to an organization that has recently put its magazine on CD-ROM. This is every edition from the first in 1923 through 1999. Everything is on 3 CDs with full searching and jpg images. Total cost for the collection is $300. I'd sure like all issues on CD.
Jim

Dabhaidh
05-25-2001, 11:07 AM
count me in.

jix
05-26-2001, 03:12 PM
Joe, I read several things in your publisher's notion of releasing a one year CD holding the 2001 issue year.

First, it's too easy. I gotta believe that HSM is now electronically composed. Nobody uses paste-up any more. So the conversion to PDF is simple. On the other hand, Volume 1, Issue 1 WAS a paste-up. The conversion is much more difficult and expensive. But as a test of interest, it would be fat more valuable.

Second, it fits with the fact that current print issues, and perhaps those back to 1997, are available as printed back issues. This allows the quality of the CD to be low - suited to the screen, but not to hard copy. Of course, if the publisher has in mind to replace the printed 'zine with electronic copy, the quality can be whatever he is willing to pay for. To me, it seems more likely that the CDs are not going to be archive quality.

Third, the choice of 2001 as the release year is curious. Why not 2000 or even 1990? Since the test is supposed to determine interest, why wait? It surely isn't a question of cost. AOL mails CDs to everybody, even those who have no computer. At least HSM can restrict to the subscriber list.

Fourth, your comment that there might be a 5-year CD that goes back to 1997 leaves me wondering whether there is any thought being given to publishing ALL issues on CD, starting with Volume 1, Issue 1. Certainly that would be the most exciting announcement. Then the reaction to a one year CD would be far more reliable, helpful, and objective.

Daubie
05-27-2001, 03:17 PM
Hi,
Yes I would be interested in an archive of ALL issues. A good search function better than what you have here on this board, more on the line of what www.delphi.com (http://www.delphi.com) has in advance view, capable of cross referencing topics and authors is of PRIMARY importance! The only problem I would have in shelling out big bucks is, are CD-ROMS going to go the way of 5 1/4" disks like on my old clunker C-64 and IBM PC then becoming obsolete?

Kurt

louismroy
06-18-2001, 01:25 AM
Being new to your magazine and website I think back issues on cd would be a good idea,if the price were kept reasonable.
especially with your new index

shapeaholic
06-18-2001, 05:38 PM
I'm glad to hear that the publisher is interested in the cd concept. I just wish you would consider starting with vol 1 #1 and work your way to the present,as opposed to the opposite. I think that the most of us interested people have the later issues. It's the earlier ones that we would like to see. I think that as a test for response you would do better with earlier ones.

toff
06-19-2001, 12:49 AM
Joe,
It is your publication, do what you think is best, not what the publisher is trying to foist off upon you.
Let's start at the beginning of the series, I am caretaker of HSM's for all but the first Volume to the present date. For me a relatively high priced CD $20-30 should be some thing I want and don't have! Let's try Five Year stretches!?
Given the choice of starting with a one year CD,at the price of a subscription, I would take paper any time.
I have a good scanner and software CD burner and could do it myself in any format. And, may yet for insurance/ archive purposes.
I like the ideas of Metalmaster, jix, Shapeaholic,and that type of thinking
Thank you for supporting input.
toff

As a thought, If you have the early volumns
on CDROM, Then you have control and duplication rights even if you should change publisher/printers. Having them on hand would be the equivalent of your line of books not just another way of delivering periodicals.

toff twice

[This message has been edited by toff (edited 06-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by toff (edited 06-22-2001).]

delphi7x10
06-21-2001, 12:32 AM
Joe,

A one year would be alright if it was year 1 of the magazine, but if you start with 2001, there is a problem. How many of the articles will start with part 2 or 3 or even 4 of a multiple part article, and then hpw many at the end of the CD will end with part 1 or 2 of a 4 part article. As others have said, its the early issues which many people want. I constantly see references to from way before I started this hobby, and some sound great, give me a chance to them, please.

To keep the cost down, I don't believe all the bells and whistles are needed, just get teh magazines on CD, I will search them for hours, as I do now with paper copies.

Thanks
Robert

ps Is there any time frame as to when this might happen?

smeboss
06-27-2001, 05:00 PM
Hello, I also would be interested in a cd based archive. Please pursue these with all speed.

Thanks

Charles



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe:
I just heard from the publisher of HSM that he is interested in producing a one-year CD (most likely for 2001) that would be made available to the readership. If that was successful, he would then produce a five-year CD (2001 back to 1997). We want to hear from you in regard to his suggestion. Let us know if this sounds like a good plan. What are your hopes and desires?
Thanks,
Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 05-18-2001).]</font>

Marty Escarcega
07-31-2001, 12:25 AM
No, not interested in one year or 5 year CD roms. Especially the newer ones. I have the last several years. I'm interested in the beginning years, actually complete set todate. Sounds like the publisher is trying the easy way out. My guess is that he has the newer back issues stored electronically, but the older ones not and those would have to be scanned. Geez, listed to the readers on my first suggestion, they want the entire Library on CD. Sounds like the publisher is too conservative....

dhensley
07-31-2001, 03:27 PM
I'm wondering if the publisher realizes that machining magazines, unlike most other magazines now, are still very useful many years after they are published. For most of us the earlier issues of HSM are the most desirable, and would probably have the greatest sales.

I'd like to see years 1-5 on a CD, scanned at 300dpi, 4-bit or better grey-scale and in pdf format. This shouldn't be hard to do once the scan software settings are tweaked for the photos. I scan in and print the articles for use in the shop, and they are very usable scanned like this. I can live without fancy indexing, which would probably be the most difficult part of producing the CD--just include the article index as a file on the CD.

SGW
07-31-2001, 03:55 PM
For me, a CD won't replace hardcopy printed. I've seen too many "standard" computer storage mediums become hopelessly obsolete in just a few years. Could anybody, anywhere, read a 256bpi 7-track magtape these days? In the 1960s, that was THE format for mass storage backup. Yet, I can still get (and read!) printed copies of Model Engineer magazine from the 1920s.

Hank Bloch
08-02-2001, 08:22 PM
The issues of Model Engineer that were printed during the war years are turning brown and crumbling into dust because the paper was not acid neutralized due to shortages during the Second World War. If we have the issues that are falling apart on CD-ROM’s the data can be easily copied to any new format that comes along. Once they are scanned we will have them in good readable condition for as long as anyone is interested in reading the publication.
Your notion that they will become unusable is totally false. I still have data that I stored on 5 and ¼ floppies, I just upgraded the data storage medium as the technology advanced

Hank Bloch.

roberlt
08-02-2001, 10:34 PM
Early stuff PLEASE. My (paper) collection starts appx. 1995 however I don't have the earlier issues.
Rob

bdarin
08-03-2001, 11:33 PM
I'm in.

willjordan
08-06-2001, 06:56 PM
Sounds good. I realize that it's much easier to work with current issues as published. I have no idea what you have used in the recent past for typsetting software, but I imagine recent past issues would be easier to do than old issues without any digital records.

I like adobe .pdf since it is a true portable document format, readable on almost anything.

I'll buy whatever is available as cash flow allows.



------------------
grace & peace
will

doug
08-06-2001, 07:23 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe:
I just heard from the publisher of HSM that he is interested in producing a one-year CD (most likely for 2001) that would be made available to the readership. If that was successful, he would then produce a five-year CD (2001 back to 1997). We want to hear from you in regard to his suggestion. Let us know if this sounds like a good plan. What are your hopes and desires?
Thanks,
Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe (edited 05-18-2001).]</font>

doug
08-06-2001, 07:28 PM
why would you want to get a cd with just 6
issues on it??? You mean go to all that
trouble to get a cd with 6 issues!
Why not all the issues,thats real value!

Docgera
08-07-2001, 12:22 PM
I{m in!

------------------
Dr. Gerardo

Victor Bowman
08-27-2001, 05:18 AM
Great idea would be of assistance in keeping the trees

Thrud
08-27-2001, 06:35 AM
Yes, and hurry up - I need more to read. My desire is cheaper shipping to Canada.

Somebody mentioned JPG format. Adobe's .pdf format is better for documents and printing.

With all due respect to SGW the old mainframe reel tapes are rarely used now because UDLT tapes offer incredible speed, enormous capacity, and longer tape life in a 4"x4"x1" cassette. The sheer volume of CD's & CD-Rom discs in the world forces new formats to embrace the old while moving forward with higher capacities and better performance.

As SGW also stated, I prefer the issue in my hot little hands to squinting at the monitor with my bifocals. The issues I do not have are legion and apparently printed on "Unobtainium" - so I guess I like the CD-Rom afterall.

Dave Smith
Just keep renewing me...


[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 08-27-2001).]

Scott B
09-29-2001, 09:09 AM
I'm an info junkie so count me in.

farmwrench
10-04-2001, 08:54 PM
I think the publisher is afraid that 1: They won't get their money back on selling the CD due to too small a market 2: loss of book sales covering topics in the CD 3: Piracy 4: that we will get so busy working our way through years of projects that we will stop buying the paper. We know that demand is present from this BBS (and so should they) BUT... NO CD YET!! So how can we force the issue? Vote with our $$$? If we sent $40 (what I paid for 20 years of FARM SHOW mag. on CD, I have since paid $20 for an update with the next 5years and a new refrence) and a note for one of the first(complet) copies and any ballance could be billed or prepaid subscription depending on final cost. At some point they will get the point. If some one wants to second this idea just start a new topic with a "I sent My $ for the CD" type title and we can vast our vote online as well as with our wallets. Vince

sid pileski
10-05-2001, 04:42 PM
I like the idea of year one,volume one. From what I read of the replies, the overwelming responce is for that also. I beleave most would put their money where there mouth (type?) is! I say take a chance and go for it, otherwise, a one or two year CD may back fire with no one buying it.

tooljedi
10-17-2001, 02:06 PM
Do it for both magazines. I will buy them.

bighammer
10-17-2001, 02:47 PM
I like thrud have some of that unobtainium in my shop, just can't find it. volume one nunber one and i'm in.

JIM DEWOLF
10-17-2001, 10:40 PM
Do them both. When can I buy them? This started out in May!

jkilroy
10-18-2001, 06:53 PM
I think putting the complete history of both of the publications on CD is a great idea. (HSM & MW) Why screw around with a one year 'trial' cd? I'd pop for it in a second, were it available.

------------------
James Kilroy

Brett Hurt
10-21-2001, 02:21 AM
DO IT I WILL BUY ALL OF THEM BRETT

pop99
10-21-2001, 09:18 PM
I've been hearing a lot about this for several months. When is something going to happen?

EddyCurr
12-19-2015, 02:26 AM
I've been hearing a lot about this for several months. When is something going to happen?Can't see CD-ROM versions of back issues on the Village Press site, yet.

Either I missed seeing them, or the project is still a work in progress.

.

johnnyd
12-19-2015, 06:39 AM
I think the proper status terminology is "vaporware":p

John

RB211
12-19-2015, 07:33 AM
Forget the cdrom. After the print publication goes out of business, release everything to the internet.

Weston Bye
12-19-2015, 08:35 AM
Might as well stop this one before it gets started again. It is all about lawyers. Well, the law and copyright in particular.

As a regular contributor to the VP metal magazines I have learned a little about the publishing process.

The VP contract agreement with the authors of articles in the magazines is for "First North American Serial Rights" as it is called. That gives VP the right to publish the article once. There are certain other provisions, but none include CD publishing.

Where the law gets involved is that permission from the author to publish a second time or format must be purchased or granted. I had to sign a second agreement when VP reprinted most of my articles in the book The Electromechanical Arts of Weston Bye.

With the several authors making up each issue of a magazine, all of the authors must agree if the complete issue of the magazine is to be copied. I suspect that most would be in agreement, while some might not. Others may be in no position to agree - having passed away. In such cases, the heirs could agree, but some cannot be found.

So without legal agreement by all the parties involved, reprinting won't happen.

flylo
12-19-2015, 08:52 AM
I've seen other forums do it & think it's a great idea & too bad it won't happen.

Weston Bye
12-19-2015, 08:59 AM
Either the other forums negotiated such provisions up front, (a really open-ended thing where the author has little control over his work) or they have a deficit of integrity when observing the law.

As an author, I am pleased with the integrity that Village Press exhibits.

Daveb
12-19-2015, 09:17 AM
Forget the cdrom. After the print publication goes out of business, release everything to the internet.

Now that really would be vapourware.

JCHannum
12-19-2015, 09:33 AM
If it hasn't happened in the fourteen years since this thread was started, I don't think it is in the cards any time soon.

RB211
12-19-2015, 12:12 PM
Weston Bye explained it all...
With that said, there is nothing in a printed publication that cannot be found on the internet with google. What we do isn't exactly cutting edge information.

mattthemuppet
12-19-2015, 12:42 PM
Either I missed seeing them, or the project is still a work in progress.

.

You're too good eddy!

lakeside53
12-19-2015, 12:49 PM
Everything changes over time... sometimes it's longer then you can wait!

Did anyone in the mid 90's think we'd be selectively buying music for pennies per song, or even free streaming? Someone did... And... Kindle (and Kiddle-like apps) for book and magazine reading? HSM? - one day....

John Stevenson
12-19-2015, 12:53 PM
It CAN be done.
There is legal precedence in the US for this.

National Geographic went to court over this because they never made any subsequent payment to the authors.

The ruling was the magazine has to be published in it's entirety, covers, adverts warts and all and as such it would be treated no different from a second print run.

Now publishing excerpts as "the Best of " or similar without permission is a no no.

The only thing that stops it is the time needed to do this and set it up given such a limited user base and the fear of pirate copies hitting the net.

ME and MEW now do digital issues as well as paper and once you sign up even though your subscription runs from the current date, you have access to past issues.

In the case of MEW that is to number 1 and ME goes back to 24th Aug 2001 which is probably when they went to electronic copies for the printers ?

It would be interesting to know the split in print to digital copies, especially for readers out of the host country.

I subscribe to digital machinist but it only issues as a paper copy ?

Spin Doctor
12-19-2015, 01:01 PM
In the 70s Jerry Pournelle phd and another guy were on the old Tom Snyder show and Pournelle described a very Kindle like device that one day you would be able to buy for downloading print media either from a library or media outlet. I'm not sure if this predates Pournelle's time as edior/collumnist at Byte or not. I'll do a youtube search and link it in. I'm using my Nook rit now and it gets fussy about using two tabs at once and copy/paste. Of course the tablet idea can be traced to at least the 1960s. As in Samsung's court arguement with Apple concerning tablets. Samsung cited 2001, A Space Oddessy as an example that Apple did not invent the idea of the tablet all on their own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVd_y5VAxEs

Mcgyver
12-19-2015, 01:30 PM
there's another side to this; included in the value proposition to a magazine purchaser is that its a item of finite supply. That means two things, I better buy it now or I might not be able to, and secondly they have some value on the secondary market and somewhat makes it easier to spend the money.

Some would skip subscribing because why bother, they can always pick it up later and others would electronically share the content and existing subscribers would be annoyed that the value of there collection plummets....if i was my company I wouldn't put out an e copy. For anyone who wants back copies they're available often from VP or used.

Paul Alciatore
12-19-2015, 02:49 PM
Weston, I never thought of it in that way. I am one of those authors and would have thought that a CD or a web version of the existing issues would be covered by the original agreement. But I can now see the other side of it.

For myself, I would be happy to grant permission to use the articles that I authored.

Perhaps language could be incorporated in the agreements to cover this in the future. I would suggest that 2016 would be a good time to start.




Might as well stop this one before it gets started again. It is all about lawyers. Well, the law and copyright in particular.

As a regular contributor to the VP metal magazines I have learned a little about the publishing process.

The VP contract agreement with the authors of articles in the magazines is for "First North American Serial Rights" as it is called. That gives VP the right to publish the article once. There are certain other provisions, but none include CD publishing.

Where the law gets involved is that permission from the author to publish a second time or format must be purchased or granted. I had to sign a second agreement when VP reprinted most of my articles in the book The Electromechanical Arts of Weston Bye.

With the several authors making up each issue of a magazine, all of the authors must agree if the complete issue of the magazine is to be copied. I suspect that most would be in agreement, while some might not. Others may be in no position to agree - having passed away. In such cases, the heirs could agree, but some cannot be found.

So without legal agreement by all the parties involved, reprinting won't happen.

George Bulliss
12-19-2015, 03:06 PM
Putting the old stuff up on a website would be considered a "second use," like when we do a book and would be logistically impossible with the back issues. As John mentioned, a CD wouldn't be a second use and could be done. One of these days it might be done, but as can be deduced by this fourteen year old discussion, it's not at the top of our list.

MikeHenry
12-19-2015, 07:59 PM
George,

You might want to contact the Nuts & Volts magazine folks and see how they manage to allow subscribers to access all the older issues on-line.

George Bulliss
12-23-2015, 10:02 AM
George,

You might want to contact the Nuts & Volts magazine folks and see how they manage to allow subscribers to access all the older issues on-line.

Another thread from a while back that I meant to reply to. Hope the old thread doesn't upset too many:rolleyes:

Mike, when talking about the "second use" rule I was thinking of the use of single articles on a website, as it had recently been discussed here. Didn't read the whole thread, but if the intent is to allow access to full issue online I would imagine it would be okay to do, provided it ran (as John mentioned) as an exact copy of the printed version. Just speculating here haven't looked into it yet.

As I said, it will be a while before we do anything along these lines.

rustdreamer
12-23-2015, 10:44 AM
Back in the 80s (when the earth's crust was still cooling), I had the first couple of years of Home Shop Machinist mag. I loved it. Especially printed plans on how to make stuff. I am relatively new to this forum--recently found it. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE ACCESS TO ALL ISSUES FROM VOL.1#1.. It would be really cool to have them in pdf or maybe even epub right off the web. Using the current username and password of each person here on homeshopmachinist.net would keep things somewhat in house.. YES DO IT!!!!!

George Bulliss
12-23-2015, 01:51 PM
All I can say is we are looking into electronic offerings and there have been lots of ideas floated. However, the ideas have yet to be attached to any resources, so it's going to be a while.

flylo
12-23-2015, 02:54 PM
I've talked to George about this also & am patiently waiting because it will be so great:)

Mike Amick
12-23-2015, 03:02 PM
I'd be on board. But not for the $300 quoted in a very early post. I mean, come on, ... it's reprint.

TriHonu
12-24-2015, 08:37 PM
I have subscribed to JLC for a long time. Back in the 90's they offered a CD with all the back issues. I bought a copy thinking that I would replace all my printed copies with the CD. The CD was not searchable and contained low res images; a total waste of money. I still have all my printed issues.

For me, the ability to full text search the archive would be most important. I'm not up to opening and reading each magazine on the computer. To read them all, I want hard copy. However to be able to search the archive to help me on a project would be highly valuable.