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rotate
05-08-2006, 04:31 PM
I'm thinking of installing a small sink in my garage so that I can wash my hands before coming in through the kitchen door (to keep my wife happy). I can run copper pipe from the basement out to the garage, but I don't want it to freeze and burst during winter, since my garage is not heated.

I just want a shut off valve in the basement, and not deal with draining it or blowing it out with compressed air before the winter. In other words, I want it to be maintenance free. Is there anything beside copper pipe that I can use so that it wont' burst?

Thanks.

Tin Falcon
05-08-2006, 04:44 PM
Rotate:
look into getting a hydrant made for farm use . I believe they come in 36" and 48" lengths the shut off is actualy at the bottom. put your pipe below the frost line and use one of these and you should be ok.
Tin Falcon

Evan
05-08-2006, 04:57 PM
Flexible polybutylene water pipe is rated for both hot and cold domestic drinking water and will not burst if frozen with water in it. There is a chance of a fitting breaking but if you just turn off the pressure and open the taps it should be fine since the only fittings will be at the taps. Don't forget to pour a little non toxic trailer antifreeze in the P trap.

TECHSHOP
05-08-2006, 05:10 PM
I have a ball valve on the inside to cut off the water, then a tee that rises vertically with a hose bib on the "other" end. Close the ball valve, place a catch bucket on the floor, open the bib, go up to the garage, open the "real" hose bib, and the water drains down into the bucket. I leave both hose bibs open all winter, has worked for years. No hot water, and the drain is a hose to the yard, no trap needed. (There are more words to explain this than parts in my set up!)

japcas
05-08-2006, 05:13 PM
I have shutoff valves in my garage for my outside spickets and they have a small cap that unscrews. If the shutoff valve is above the tap it is hooked to you close the shutoff valve, open the tap that the valve is going to, and then unscrew the cap and it lets all of the water out of the line. If the shutoff valve is below the tap, you can unscrew the cap and drain the water from it, which completely prevents the possibility of it busting from freezing. I am not sure of the exact name but any of the plumbing houses should have them.

Norman Warfield
05-08-2006, 05:27 PM
It's called a stopcock and waste valve. pick 'em up for cheap anywhere.

pcarpenter
05-08-2006, 05:28 PM
If you are going to bury it, copper pipe is not the best idea. I think Evan already mentioned polybutylene piping. It is black and has a typicall wall thickness around maybe 1/8-3/16" and uses special fittings. This is what is used in water supply to most houses nowdays. Just remember not to ground to the water supply as what is stuck in the ground is not conductive:D

Also, I noticed in an ad, that some is safe for potable water and another type is not (designed for irrigation use and a little cheaper).

Paul

wierdscience
05-08-2006, 07:55 PM
I think that's POLYETHYLENE tubing,the polybutalene is the grey colored stuff house trailer manufacturers(and rats) loved so much:rolleyes:


Crosslinked polyethylene is the stuff for potable water,it's white/translucent in color and Home depot or Lowes should have it by the foot.

Your Old Dog
05-08-2006, 08:01 PM
I know it don't get real cold here in Buffalo but I just ran regular 3/4" pipe thru the basement wall and solderderd (sp) a brass spigot onto it. They make cups similar to an athletic cup for your other pipes that are styrofoam and they work just fine. This spigot is on the wind exposed side of the house. I do have a shutoff for it in the basement just in the event it would let go but it never did.

jdunmyer
05-08-2006, 08:24 PM
I'm unclear on the location of your garage, it sounds as though it's attached to the house?

In any event, I'd use plastic plumbing as others have suggested, but here's another thought:

Build a small cabinet like a vanity with the sink mounted in the top. Install one of those little 120-volt water heaters in it. Run the plumbing to it, making sure that it is kept in a non-freezing environment until it enters the cabinet. Maybe install some insulation inside the cabinet's walls, something like 1" foam board. Keep the drain trap inside the cabinet, then run the drain to [wherever it has to go].

The water heater will have a very slight heat loss, enough to prevent freeze-ups, and you'll have instant hot water to boot. If it gets real cold in your garage, you might want to consider installing a drop-down insulated lid of some sort. If it's not that bad, use copper pipe stubs to connect your faucets and they should conduct enough heat from below to keep them from freezing.

Frankly, I can't imagine not having a sink with hot water in my shop.

Evan
05-08-2006, 10:36 PM
If you put in polybutylene also put in a laundry sink instead of a basin. It's mighty handy for washing small parts to get traces of oil off (painting, anodizing etc). Run the pipe from above to the taps so that when the water is turned off it drains the water from the fixtures by just opening them.

dicks42000
05-09-2006, 12:08 AM
OK guys;
I just had to ad my $ 0.25 worth here.
I have to agree with Evan about the laundry tub idea...I have one in the attached garage at home. Very useful, as he says. Also have one at the sheet metal shop in Vancouver. Washing parts, cooling things off etc.
As for plastic piping...Poly-B, the gey plastic stuff is no longer code allowed, at least in Canada. (Shell, Dow Chemical etc. were sued over it being oxygen permeable. corroding H/W heating systems etc...)
Pex, Wirsbo, Pex-Al-pex, and polyethylene are widely available, but pex & crimp fittings are prpbably fastest to install. No piping system short of a rubber garden hose is really freeze resistant. I believe Japcas already suggested using copper stubs through the wall from the heated space (assuming an attached garage ?), and someone suggested using stop & drain shutoffs...good ideas. What about insulating & heating the garage, work year round then.
What about the drainage ???
Hope that helps a bit.

Rick

Bill Cook
05-09-2006, 12:56 AM
Not sure this will fit your situation:

If the garage and basement share a wall, put the valve and drain trap on the basement side of the wall.

I was going to use a single handle shower valve, and extend the stem through the wall. The water outlet would have been pitched to empty into the sink.

The garage was a half story above the basement floor. This put the trap above the sewer line.

Could be left on all winter.

We escaped from New Jersey before the plan could take shape.

This may be of no help at all, but it gets me off the lurker list.

BC

wmgeorge
05-11-2006, 08:02 PM
OK guys;
I just had to ad my $ 0.25 worth here.
I have to agree with Evan about the laundry tub idea...I have one in the attached garage at home. Very useful, as he says. Also have one at the sheet metal shop in Vancouver. Washing parts, cooling things off etc.
As for plastic piping...Poly-B, the gey plastic stuff is no longer code allowed, at least in Canada. (Shell, Dow Chemical etc. were sued over it being oxygen permeable. corroding H/W heating systems etc...)
Pex, Wirsbo, Pex-Al-pex, and polyethylene are widely available, but pex & crimp fittings are prpbably fastest to install. No piping system short of a rubber garden hose is really freeze resistant. I believe Japcas already suggested using copper stubs through the wall from the heated space (assuming an attached garage ?), and someone suggested using stop & drain shutoffs...good ideas. What about insulating & heating the garage, work year round then.
What about the drainage ???
Hope that helps a bit.

Rick

Ok I agree with Rick, I used 1/2" PEX pipe, 24 inches underground in a piece of 2" PVC I had ran before, for another purpose. I used compressed air to blow the water out in the winter, after opening all the faucets. So I have running water in the garage 9 months of the year, here in Iowa.

speedsport
05-11-2006, 09:45 PM
I am running a water out to my new shop building ( actually just a slab right now), went to the Home Depot today, asked the genius working in the plumbing department about waterline in a roll, he showed me the stuff, $18.00 for a 25ft roll, I asked him why it is so expensive and he said that it's special stuff, capable of expanding 10X without bursting!, I told him I didn't believe it, he replied that he didn't believe it either but thats what the MFG. advertises. Anybody heard of this stuff?, 10X?, BS!!