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torker
05-11-2006, 03:23 PM
Hoping for the best here.
Was having a coffee break this morning outside. Looked through all the bushes in the next door neighbours yard.
Saw a funny looking green thing hid around the side of an old shed.
The place belongs to an old couple. He had a stroke years ago and was in a wheel chair. He couldn't talk...only mumbled.
He died last summer but I only found out today that he was a machinist before he was caught up in a bad car accident that brought on the stroke.
I asked my boss what that green thing was and he told me the whole story. Seems the guy had a well equiped shop. The green thing is some kind of old milling machine. It needs an arbor. From what I can see it is a horizontal mill with a big heavy knee. Too bad it's been sitting outside uncovered. And who knows what else is in his treasure chest!
The old girl wants to get rid of the stuff so I'm going to look at the mill and whatever at 4:01 pm...not one second later!!!
All that looking and there has been a horizontal mill about 300 ft from my house all this time. I could have had it before it was put outside....dang!
Russ

IOWOLF
05-11-2006, 03:27 PM
Good luck Russ,I hope there is more goodies for a good price, Oh and if there is anything you don't want pass 'em on to us.

Cecil Walker
05-11-2006, 03:38 PM
May the machine finder Gods be with you.

CCWKen
05-11-2006, 04:06 PM
I'm going to be there at 3:00. :D

Millman
05-11-2006, 04:13 PM
Hell of a find but.....are you going to repaint? Love Alistair's machines but........are you giong to repaint?

Techtchr
05-11-2006, 04:15 PM
Took an old horizontal to the scrap metal dealer. Don't go more than$13.00 that's what mine got me. I bought it for $50, kept the arbor, and a box full of milling cutters then aged it in my garage for 2 years before recycling.

gundog
05-11-2006, 04:42 PM
Post some pics I always like to see the great deals other people find and every once in a while I stuble on something myself.
GD

Evan
05-11-2006, 04:58 PM
If you find anything else interesting keep me in mind. I'm driving to Calgary next month and might just decide to make a bit of a detour on the way... Need any grinding wheels?? :D :D

torker
05-11-2006, 08:34 PM
Arrrggghhh...photobucket is sllloooowww! I don't know how long it'll take to get some pics up.
The mill is an OHIO #2 Universal/horizontal. It has been outside for almost two years and is pretty rusted. Too bad, the table has zero dings or holes.
The X movement is free but the Y and the knee are siezed or locked...I didn't want to force anything on MY NEW MILL!
I told the old girl that I knew her husband a little and worked in the shop next door. Told her I was interested in looking at that old green machine out back. She wasn't sure what I was talking about so we went out back and I pointed it out to her.
She said"Oh...that horrid old thing. It's yours if you just get it out of here"
I guess a couple of other guys have wanted it but never came to get it.
Now I have to figure how to load it and such...make room in the shop etc.
That's IF you guys figure I can fix it...pics at 6ish
Russ

CCWKen
05-11-2006, 08:47 PM
Anything can be fixed, given a big enough bag of money.

You can't beat the asking price. :D

torker
05-11-2006, 09:30 PM
I hear you Ken!
Here's a few pics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/1c6d42b4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/80141287.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/1c10f0ea.jpg
The only thing needed for sure is an overarm support.
Anyone have any idea if I could get one?
Also...does anyone have any idea about what year this is and how much it weighs?
I think the table and knee can be freed up ok. The rust seems to be surface rust and there are no heavy pits that I can see.
The ol' guy was running it with the little motor in the back and the little auto fan belt.
Was just spinning it as he had no cutters and never did have the overarm support.
Thanks for any info!
Russ

aboard_epsilon
05-11-2006, 09:33 PM
looks like it could be made to look nice after a bit of elbow grease .

are you colour blind torker

all the best.mark

torker
05-11-2006, 09:35 PM
Wait a minute...that's the overarm support sitting on the table isn't it?
They told me it needed an arbor. I thought they meant it needed an overarm support once I saw the machine.
Geez...just like a teenage kid on his first date :D
Russ

Mike Burdick
05-11-2006, 09:40 PM
...Saw a funny looking green thing hid around the side of an old shed....
Russ...now what I really what to know is what was the green thing???

aboard_epsilon
05-11-2006, 09:40 PM
its a universal mill with swiveling table .

cant see a drive shaft to the table .........for the auto traverse.........the arbor is stuck in the quil

all the best.mark

Scatterplot
05-11-2006, 09:42 PM
<sigh> One of my friends found some kind of mill in the crawlspace of his house (:confused: ) that he didn't put there. It was rusted and all, and HE FREAKING THREW IT AWAY!!!! That douche. I tried to tell him you can fix rust, but he's one of those people who you can't tell anything. Extremely annoying, but I think it was just a benchtop mill of some kind, so not a COMPLETE loss, but still, he threw it away and now I hate him forever. Ok not really but you can understand what I'm feeling!

torker
05-11-2006, 09:42 PM
HAHAHAHA...OK...It looked like a pale shade of green from a distance! Or maybe it was all the grinding dust on my safety glasses :D

torker
05-11-2006, 09:45 PM
its a universal mill with swiveling table .

cant see a drive shaft to the table .........for the auto traverse.........the arbor is stuck in the quil

all the best.mark
Mark, the driveshaft is on the lefthand side. Didn't get a pic of it.
Yes it has an arbor but I think there may be something wrong with it. Maybe needs straightening or something.

torker
05-11-2006, 09:46 PM
<sigh> One of my friends found some kind of mill in the crawlspace of his house (:confused: ) that he didn't put there. It was rusted and all, and HE FREAKING THREW IT AWAY!!!! That douche. I tried to tell him you can fix rust, but he's one of those people who you can't tell anything. Extremely annoying, but I think it was just a benchtop mill of some kind, so not a COMPLETE loss, but still, he threw it away and now I hate him forever. Ok not really but you can understand what I'm feeling!
Scatterplot...tell him I hate him too :D

aboard_epsilon
05-11-2006, 09:46 PM
<sigh> One of my friends found some kind of mill in the crawlspace of his house (:confused: ) that he didn't put there. It was rusted and all, and HE FREAKING THREW IT AWAY!!!! That douche. I tried to tell him you can fix rust, but he's one of those people who you can't tell anything. Extremely annoying, but I think it was just a benchtop mill of some kind, so not a COMPLETE loss, but still, he threw it away and now I hate him forever. Ok not really but you can understand what I'm feeling!

In the uk the bench top mills go the highest prices on ebay :D

Much sought after by people with shed workshops

Even completly rusted out ones ive seen sell fotr 1 or 2 hundred.

all the best.mark

aboard_epsilon
05-11-2006, 09:50 PM
Mark, the driveshaft is on the lefthand side. Didn't get a pic of it.
Yes it has an arbor but I think there may be something wrong with it. Maybe needs straightening or something.


nah... the draw bar is loose and arbors dangling.


dont try the machines traverse untill stripped and rebuilt ....or you will break something ....be-it shear pin or gear.

all the best.mark

aboard_epsilon
05-11-2006, 09:53 PM
bet there is a vertical head hanging about somewhere for that machine.

all the best.mark

thistle
05-11-2006, 10:04 PM
Having just salvaged a shaper in a similar state ,ishould imagine that you could get that going again.
Disassemble, boil everyhting in TSP,scrub , electrolyse..... should find a good machine under that.

torker
05-11-2006, 10:05 PM
Mark, you are correct. The drawbar is loose. But my boss knew something of the mill from it's previous owner. He said it needed an arbor. Guess we'll see.
No, I'm not moving anything.
funny, for as old as this is, I couldn't believe how little backlash there was on the X hand crank. About 1/8 of a turn. Better than my Asian mill that is new. Course the rust may have tightened it up some.
I was wondering about a vertical head also. I want to try to track down the guy who used to own it. He died also but more parts may be kicking around.
Wait a minute...the last two guys who owned this died....nah...I have too much to do :D
Russ (still grinnin)

torker
05-11-2006, 10:08 PM
Right on Thistle! You just reminded me that I have a electrolysis cleaner that hasn't been fired up yet this year.
Thanks for the "rust buster" support!

JRouche
05-11-2006, 11:08 PM
I have had outstanding results with the electrolytic process also. I had a heck of a time finding the arm and hammer washing soda (sodium carbonate). Finally talked my grocer into buying a case, I took the whole case. Yer gonna have fun watching good metal come outta the bath...

You prolly have all the info for the electrolysis process but if you want more lemme know. I have about eight different articles collected on it I could send them. JRouche

Mcgyver
05-11-2006, 11:28 PM
Russ what a great find! too bad they couldn't of parked it with the support, but maybe its under an old dusty bench with the guy's other stuff? me thinks its time for the great mill restoration photo essay :D

torker
05-11-2006, 11:29 PM
JR, Thanks! Actually I used my electric rust buster quite a bit last year. Mostly on old truck parts.
I'm looking forward to using it on something a little more refined now though.
I got a great big box of A+H washing soda at Walmart. They handle is here all the time from what they told me.
Seems some places it is hard to get though.

WJHartson
05-11-2006, 11:45 PM
Russ, I'm sure you will make the mill run again and spend many hours making chips with it.

Joe

Scatterplot
05-11-2006, 11:55 PM
My walmart doesn't have the sodium carbonate, but I tried a little with lye and it seemed to work well.

JRouche
05-12-2006, 12:33 AM
"My walmart doesn't have the sodium carbonate, but I tried a little with lye and it seemed to work well."

I use lye and washing soda. The amount of lye is so little the solution is not caustic enough to hurt but it does help with the continuity of the electrolyte.. JRouche

torker
05-12-2006, 01:15 AM
So...does anyone have any idea how much this ol' thing would weigh?
I'm thinking it's pretty heavy and have to figure what to do with it.
I can get it loaded ok and could even get a Gradall from work to unload it but the Gradall won't fit under the power lines into my house.
Thanks!
Russ

torker
05-12-2006, 01:27 AM
One more...can anyone tell me how I should rig this to lift it?
I have some 5000lb nylon slings and the usual cables and chains
I'd like to use the slings so I don't scratch any of the rust...er patina...

Scatterplot
05-12-2006, 02:10 AM
One more...can anyone tell me how I should rig this to lift it?
I have some 5000lb nylon slings and the usual cables and chains
I'd like to use the slings so I don't scratch any of the rust...er patina...

http://www.hulklibrary.com/hulk/images/corner/hulk-shouting-1.gif

aboard_epsilon
05-12-2006, 07:09 AM
650 kg

he he ....trying to metricize you ..
sorry i no longer think in lbs's

all the best.........mark

thistle
05-12-2006, 08:52 AM
I have had outstanding results with the electrolytic process also. I had a heck of a time finding the arm and hammer washing soda (sodium carbonate). Finally talked my grocer into buying a case, I took the whole case. Yer gonna have fun watching good metal come outta the bath...

You prolly have all the info for the electrolysis process but if you want more lemme know. I have about eight different articles collected on it I could send them. JRouche


The Arm and Hammer washing soda seems to be universally hard to find, i suspect its only us rusty machine lunatics whosuddenly run to the super market to get it once every 6 months or so.
Actually if you study the package most dry laundry detergents have some sodium carbonate in it , in fact there are more popular arm and hammer products with sodium carbonate and also lots of nice smelling stuff as well.
so if at first you cant find what you want toss something else in the pot and see what happens.

torker
05-12-2006, 09:00 AM
650 kg

he he ....trying to metricize you ..
sorry i no longer think in lbs's

all the best.........mark
Mark...I live in Canada. Thanks to Pierre we already do the metric thing.
I'm sure it weighs a lot more than 650kg.

thistle
05-12-2006, 09:08 AM
by way of encouragement, if you think that that machine is bad looking look at my current shaper project.

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=15774&highlight=shaper

railfancwb
05-12-2006, 09:23 AM
I found some of that A&H washing soda at my local Krogers...one row deep, high shelf, among acres of high price laundry detergents. You can mail order it also. Google "Washing Soda" or look on eBay. Charles

torker
05-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Thistle, that's a cool little shaper! How's it coming anyway?
BTW...does the boiling in TPS work?
I'm not real worried about the rust on this.
What I don't like is the lack of any info on this machine.
Looks like its made by the Oesterlein Machine Company and is called an OHIO.
Google and other searches have turned up nothing. Tony's UK site has nothing either.
Oh well it's looking like a "by guess and by golly" find of rebuild!
Russ

bob308
05-12-2006, 09:32 AM
i would skid it then get a rollback truck to pick it up and deliver it.

Evan
05-12-2006, 09:47 AM
I just use straight lye. All it really needs is something besides salt to make the water conduct electricity. You could use bicarbonate of soda too but it might evolve some chlorine gas.

Russ, you should try to find an old fiberglass bathtub to do stuff like the table. I have no doubt that it is going to be in good working order under the rust.

BTW, I just picked up a jug of 70% pure phosphoric acid from a customer that runs a local hydroponics supply. That will also do an excellent job of cleaning up parts. It is $15 for a litre (I traded work). Weird stuff, the litre weighs about 2 kilos.

If you wanted to make a super rust buster solution for the electrolytic derusting you could probably use phosphoric acid instead of an alkaline solution. I wouldn't leave the parts in indefinitely though.

thistle
05-12-2006, 10:46 AM
Thistle, that's a cool little shaper! How's it coming anyway?
BTW...does the boiling in TPS work?
I'm not real worried about the rust on this.
What I don't like is the lack of any info on this machine.
Looks like its made by the Oesterlein Machine Company and is called an OHIO.
Google and other searches have turned up nothing. Tony's UK site has nothing either.
Oh well it's looking like a "by guess and by golly" find of rebuild!

Russ


hows it coming shaper wise- slow.

boiling in TSP will leave you with clean paintless castings, and go along way to cleaning up a lot of the grunge.
better than paint stripper and grinding.

TSP is a mild alkali.

I used a steel barrel and one of the burners they sell for deep frying turkeys.
use lots of appropriate blocking as with 30 or 40 gallons of water and lots of iron can add up.
for big stuff its nice to have something over head to hook a comalong onto, to help lift.I am 34 and can pick up some pretty damn heavy stuff , but when it comes to any thing over 50 pounds of unreplacable machine parts ,and boiling water,its slowly ,gently -thanks you.

I put heavy fence wire loops on everything so I can pull it out of the boil to checkon progress.

nothing to it really , load barrel, fire it till it almost boils , turn off pull out next day.
long parts you can do 1/2 at a time.

beware the shiite in the bottom of the barrel, might have a lot of lead paint there. use common sense dealing with wet possibly lead contaminated parts,and the left over sludge. no place for kids.

better than grinding it all down and getting lead dust every where though.

Scatterplot
05-12-2006, 01:00 PM
Excuese my naivete, but what is TSP?

quasi
05-12-2006, 01:13 PM
I just use straight lye. All it really needs is something besides salt to make the water conduct electricity. You could use bicarbonate of soda too but it might evolve some chlorine gas.

Russ, you should try to find an old fiberglass bathtub to do stuff like the table. I have no doubt that it is going to be in good working order under the rust.

BTW, I just picked up a jug of 70% pure phosphoric acid from a customer that runs a local hydroponics supply. That will also do an excellent job of cleaning up parts. It is $15 for a litre (I traded work). Weird stuff, the litre weighs about 2 kilos.

If you wanted to make a super rust buster solution for the electrolytic derusting you could probably use phosphoric acid instead of an alkaline solution. I wouldn't leave the parts in indefinitely though.

local hydroponics supply? Ah, the backbone of the B.C. economy, the local grow-op supplier!!!

Evan
05-12-2006, 01:25 PM
Well, yes. But it isn't just that. You need a greenhouse to grow anything here. I took this pic this morning before leaving for work. It was snowing.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/snowmay12.jpg

Oh yeah, TSP= TriSodium Phosphate

Herm Williams
05-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Hello
I have moved some machines similar to this. Use a pry bar to raise it up just work around it a little at the time until you can get it blocked up enough to get a pallet jack under the machine. get two sheets of inch plywood and roll move it forward very easy as you move off a ply sheet move that board forward to provide a surface. Pallet jack and pry bar will move almost everything.
my two cents worth

doug931
05-12-2006, 03:20 PM
Great find Russ. It sure looks like the overarm support sitting on the table. Unless that is some sort of belt guard. Let us know the size of the arbor-dia. We might be able to help out with spare cutters.
Now you will appreciate all the fun I had getting my lathe home and moved into the shop. 6500lbs. I used a hydraulic picker truck, traded for some work on his Harley.
By the way, that universal table will come in handy making radial and helical gears.
Doug-slightly jealous.

John Stevenson
05-12-2006, 03:25 PM
Hey Russ,
Swivel table, that will make a nice gear hobber.

.

torker
05-12-2006, 04:12 PM
Thanks guys!
Herm, I'll be ok once I get it home and off the truck. And it is heavy! I just took a bar over there and tried to lift the base out of the mud. Couldn't even budge it. It's just sitting there in it's cast iron splendour. All the Gradalls are out working today so I have to formulate a plan B.
Doug, this isn't as heavy as your lathe but it's a good chunk.
That is the overarm support sitting on the table. I tried to see what is wrong with the arbour but everything is froze up so I can't tell and don't want to jimmy anything.
All the spacers are rusted onto the arbor so I can't tell for sure what size it is.
Bad news...I found the verticle head. Or whats left of it. An empty cast iron box with no innards. I'll have to look around and see if I can find the other parts in the rust pile.
John, you told me a couple of years ago to get one of these. That's why I was so suprised to see it was a Universal mill. Just what I wanted!
As far as I know this is the only one(Universal) in this country. Unless there are more hiding in someones backyard.
She's also got a big old Hobart 400 amp welder she wants to give me.
I told her I'd have to see if it works but if it does I'd give her a fair price for it.
I don't really need another welder but those are nice smooth old machines to weld with.
Russ

Evan
05-12-2006, 04:15 PM
There wouldn't be any small surface grinders laying about would there????

torker
05-12-2006, 04:21 PM
Evan...I don't think so. I'd have to be greedy and keep that too...lol!
I don't know what happened there. There's some weird stuff outside. Almost seems like it was all in a shed at one time then they threw it all out and tore the shed down.
I still haven't got through even half the pile so who knows what is in there.
I don't want to appear to be too greedy but I sure don't want all this old stuff to go to waste. I was lucky. Her next door neighbour drives a scrap truck, even has a picker on it. I may see if he can load it for me this weekend.
Russ

torker
05-12-2006, 05:02 PM
Hang on! I think I just figured this out.
It does indeed need an arbor. For the verticle head! That's why it was all torn apart. I'm betting the horizontal part is fine!
Whew...I just measured up...trying to figure where to put this thing. It sticks out 70 inches...add a few more for clearance. Ouch, six feet of parking space.
Good thing it's just a little one huh?
Throw up a tent for it in the back yard? :D

Mike Burdick
05-12-2006, 06:46 PM
Russ,

A thought here: If the machine turns out to useful, you might consider giving that lady you got it from something. Being a widow, a little extra cash might help out – one never knows. Just because she asked for nothing doesn't mean you can't argue the price a little. ;) Oh…maybe it will also stop that 'death curse' you mentioned that seems to go along with it.:D

By the way, how’s the ‘big yellow’ lathe’s restoration coming along?

torker
05-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Hey Mike, I was thinking the same thing. If it turns out ok I'll for sure settle it up right.
The yellow monster is now blue. And the guy who's "supposed to" be fixing the spindle is still dragging his feet. I haven't really pressed the point as I'm so busy right now I don't need any more on my plate.
Evan, I just had the "Grand Tour" of all the old guys stuff. What a disappointment! He has lots of stuff, an old power hacksaw, a couple of wood lathes, a drill press, and a couple of tablesaws....all homemade!
The guy was actually a very smart ol' bugger and built a lot of this stuff with old junk he found laying around but it's very crude. I'd like to get hold of his homemade drill press though. The head/spindle came off a very expensive machine of some kind. He has it bolted to the most ungodly collection of I beams and angle iron you've ever seen, then he runs it with an old washing machine motor. The quill etc is about ten times better than my drill press so I better be having that.
I just took the table off the ol' mill.
I hurt my damn back getting it on the deck of my truck. My God that thing is heavy! I can easily wrestle a small block Chevy bare block onto the truck but this table must have 150 pounds or more on a Chevy block.
Now I'm kind of gimped up but I got the table, two arbors, the overarm support, the table drive gears and some other goodies, all in my shop now.
The rust is coming off the table very easily with some WD-40 and some fine steel wool. I sprayed the machine down with oil and covered it up until I can get it loaded.
Found more stuff that works fine. I think this'll be a very easy restoration.
Russ

billyboy
05-12-2006, 10:51 PM
torker hi,, i would be very tempted to electrolisis most of them parts, especially the milling table, handles ect, if you need any instructions for this i can let you have some info,,,

bill

Scatterplot
05-12-2006, 10:57 PM
Oooh, I just thought of a way you might could lift the thing up to get a truck under it. It's kinda hard to explain, so I'll try to find a link, but it's pretty cool. (it might have even been posted on here before but I'll check)

Scatterplot
05-12-2006, 11:04 PM
Oh, yeah, here it is. I actually remember now posting this on here a long time ago. It's about Stonehenge, and some guy is moving some massive huge blocks around, so I figured you could probably do something like that. Maybe lift it up the way shown in the video, then put supports at the edges and remove the middle ones, then slowly lower it onto a truck somehow? I dunno, difficult to imagine without seeing it in person (at least for me). This way you don't have to worry about slings and stuff.

Edit- Forgot the link :)http://homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=12498&

J. Randall
05-13-2006, 01:02 AM
A tip for you guys who have trouble finding the sodium carbonate, look in the spa and pool supplies section. You might read the labels to be sure, but I think the ph increaser is mostly sodium carbonate. James

torker
05-13-2006, 09:34 AM
I already have a cleaner built. Last year.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/540e677a.jpg
It's too small for the table. The table needs a minimum of 53" in length. Even standing up this won't do one half at a time.
I like Evans bath tub idea but have no idea where to find a used fiberglass one. I wonder if a metal one lined with plastic sheet would work.
Can't see why not.

JCHannum
05-13-2006, 10:51 AM
Alot of the old engine and tractor guys use stock watering troughs for tanks for the electrolysis process. Just put some plastic film in before filling. Take care not to puncture or tear it and you'll be OK.

By the looks of the photos, you really don't have too much rust to deal with, and it should clean up nicely. Good find.

thistle
05-13-2006, 10:58 AM
dont have get too technical ,just make a wooden box lined with thick poly sheet, good for one fizz, at least.