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torker
05-21-2006, 12:14 AM
Hey guys!
I'm wondering about quite a few horizontal mills I've seen that had different mfg's vertical heads mounted on them
Where these kind of a "fit all" swap or is there normally a lot of modifications made to them so they fit?
The reason I'm wondering is, these often come up on Ebay and either go really cheap or don't sell at all.
What would you look for if you where wanting a vertical head for a mill that was a different manufacturer?
Thanks!
Russ

JPR
05-21-2006, 12:37 AM
well I will go first. I think it would be more work than it is worth, but possible.

The biggest issue would be to build a new ram adapter to connect your mill to the new head. Due to size and the cast in worm gear, this would not be the easiest piece to make. Also you would need to purchase or build a new ram adapter gear.

torker
05-21-2006, 12:50 AM
John, I should mention...this would be for the old OHIO horizontal mill I'm working on now.
It did have a vertical head on it at one time.
I even found the empty head case but all the inners and the adapter are missing. Would be easier to adapt another head to the machine maybe.
Russ

JPR
05-21-2006, 01:01 AM
In that case, I would find a nice head at a good price and go for it.

J Tiers
05-21-2006, 01:02 AM
People put bridgeport heads on horizontal machines all the time. Even on ones as small as benchmaster. Somewhere in the metalworking dropbox retired files there are pics of a "benchport" conversion.

So I don't know why it would be any different for yours. If yours has a dovetail "box" type overarm, then it might be more trouble, of course. But still do-able, since it has been done. And of course, a bridgeport has a box overarm......

Mark Hockett
05-21-2006, 01:05 AM
Russ,
I have seen a few K&T 2H horizontal mills with BP heads mounted on the over arm supports. It is a fairly simple modification. All that is needed is an adapter plate that fits on the double tube over arm support, that the BP head can bolt to. The plates I've seen were made from a thick steel plate with 2 large holes bored to mount to the over arm tubes and 4 threaded holes to mount the BP head to. The large holes were slotted with cinch bolts. The advantage to this machine would be a much heavier casting on the base, power feed with rapids on the X, Y and knee axis, larger (10"x54") table and it could still be used as a horizontal mill if needed.

There is a shop in Sacramento, CA called Langill's Machine that has one and was building a second one the last time I was there. They said the machine worked really well.

Mark Hockett
Island Tech Enterprises
Clinton, WA
360-914-6026

Peter N
05-21-2006, 02:40 AM
Here's one I looked at last weekend.
It was advertised as a Bridgeport as the guy didn't actually know what he had.

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.neill/KearneyBridgy.jpeg

Peter

John Stevenson
05-21-2006, 03:37 AM
The little Adcock and Shipleys used either their own head driving thru a step up gear from the spindle or they machined a mounting face on the end of the ram and bolted the Bridgeport M head onto it.

The M head is a lot smaller than the J head and goes well with these small machines.

One point to think about is that many factory supplied vertical heads were only able to allow angles and had no working quill.
Depending on the type of work undertaken this can cause problems.
It's far easier to work on a valve job on a bike head with a quill than working without.

On yours Russ, there is room for the common J series head.
The conversion can be done in house and on the host machine, something to think about as it being rebuilt.

You need to remove the top ram and bolt it to the bed parallel to the spindle. A large face mill or fly cutter is run in the spindle and small cuts taken until you have a platform.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/vertmount1.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/vertmount2.jpg

The rest of the mounting is decided by what head you use.

Charles Ping
05-21-2006, 04:56 AM
I've mounted the ubiquitous Bridgeport J head on my mill.
Originally I mounted it on an old Victoria MO plain horizontal mill because I had no vertical head for the mill. Simply mounted onto the overam in the same way as John's pictures show using a 1" plate. I also sliced the circular tee slot part from the Bridgeport knuckle so that I have a "tilt" facility but no "nod".

Subsequently I bought a newer mill, an Elliott U0 which comes with bigger swivelling table (38"x10") and better feeds etc (£50 from Ebay here in the UK) This came with the factory 40INT vertical head attachment. However since that head has no quill feed and the mill has no Z power feed I moved the Bridgeport head over to the new mill. Quill feed is very handy. Power quill feed is better even if the Bridgy power quill feed is a bit pathetic. The Elliott vertical head was sold with the old plain mill.

The big plus for me is that I get both a good horizontal mill and a pretty versatile vertical mill in a single smallish (1 ton-ish) footprint. Helps that I've also got the correct slotting head for the Elliott mill via Mark McGrath.

Charles

torker
05-21-2006, 07:16 AM
Ah, you bunch of clever devils!
I never even thought of a Bridgy type head for this.
I was only thinking of one that would bolt onto the existing spindle.
The BP head would be a far better addition.
They cost more to buy but would be worth many times that.
John...you also just pointed out why I should buy one or two of those big face mills that go for peanuts on Ebay.
A nice 8" face mill went for $25 or so awhile back.
This thing is going to be a ton of fun once it's up and running. Get to pick off a bunch of cheap tooling from Ebay again! :D
Russ

John Stevenson
05-21-2006, 07:26 AM
Russ,
Why not if they are that cheap, Ebay is a marvellous medium, a lot of my equipment was home built before cheap imports or Ebay.

That face mill started off life as a triplex sprocket for a lace machine :) and was machined on a poor old ML7 and a mill drill.
It was fitted to a MT3 taper for the mill drill so I could face racing bike casings in one pass.

I know it's a bit big for MT3 but it did work if you took your time.
These days it's on an INT40 taper but can go onto a R8 if desperate.

.

aboard_epsilon
05-21-2006, 08:36 AM
On mine ..I adapted this old gear out of my failed shaper project,to take the place of the missing gear
that drove it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/gear.jpg


the vertical head fits on the dovetails of the column


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/halfoff.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/lsidehead.jpg

all the best...mark

John Stevenson
05-21-2006, 08:42 AM
That last photo shows the problems of not having a non quill feed.
To use that drill it would have to return to vertical and the work be angled to suit.

.

aboard_epsilon
05-21-2006, 08:58 AM
the drill was just banged in there to show the adaptabilty of the head .....I took one pic and the picture looked flat with no depth ..so the drill went in ..
dont forget I have a gearheaded pillar drill and a bridgeport for drilling.

all the best.mark

aboard_epsilon
05-21-2006, 09:11 AM
yup and I'm still wondering ,why the person who first bought the machine. why he had the need for this swivel mounting on the head .
BTW the intermediate swivel comes off ...and the head can be mounted strait on the machine ...and then just has the ability to swivel 180 degrees....well 360 but who needs the thing piointed up in the air.

all the best...mark

Charles Ping
05-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Mark

Got any up to date pictures of your Fritz?
Last time I saw a picture it looked cleaner than my kitchen.

Charles

J Tiers
05-21-2006, 11:26 AM
The pic of the BP on teh Milwaukee shows exactly the same sort of adapter that is on mine (smaller, and a V-head with no quill, though).

I can vouch for the hassles of having no quill. But it often can be wirked around. You end up cranking ht knee a lot, and hoping the knee lock doesn't lift the knee at all.

Charles Ping
05-21-2006, 12:23 PM
Useful pictures of adapters here.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/bridgeport/page12.html

Never seen any in the flesh though....

Charles

aboard_epsilon
05-21-2006, 01:20 PM
Mark

Got any up to date pictures of your Fritz?
Last time I saw a picture it looked cleaner than my kitchen.

Charles

No I had to put it on the back-burner , as my windows were almost on the verge of dropping out of my house.

Nearly finished the windows ........but another job has come along... leaky core plug ..behind flywheel of my car (engine out :( )plus LPG conversion on my car... LPG ecu controlled sequential injection...major brain ache time.
and like always ...........it turns into a big job with me ..ie engine out ..replace cambelt,water pump, clutch, paint the thing...LOL...then knowing me ...head off, porting ..and on and on ....

so will probably start back on the fritz in about a month and a halves time.

here's what it last looked like :-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz/fritz2c.jpg

torker
05-21-2006, 01:51 PM
Guys, Thanks for the extra info! This won't be happening for awhile but at least I know it's possible now.
Mark, that machine looks vey nice!
What kind of paint is that?
(besides green?)(lol)
Russ

aboard_epsilon
05-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Guys, Thanks for the extra info! This won't be happening for awhile but at least I know it's possible now.
Mark, that machine looks vey nice!
What kind of paint is that?
(besides green?)(lol)
Russ

Great finish ,Great looks and probably very corrosion/chemical resistant...but sadly is easily chipped and for what the stuff is ...it's far too expensive.

it's two pack polly over two pack epoxy.

Dont bother

all the best...mark

thistle
05-21-2006, 04:52 PM
I did a few machines up with 2 part epoxy and 2 part poly just because I had it as left over s from other jobs.It looks niceat first but is a waste of time really.wouldnt do it again
I now have been putting on automotive primer and single part poly with a foam brush.works fine .