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View Full Version : The old OHIO #2...a few pics...innards



torker
05-21-2006, 12:24 PM
Still monkeying with the jackscrew...trying to get it to turn more than half a turn.
"Turns" out that this whole gear train is all tied together at one point and that shaft is siezed or something is broken.
Here's a pic of the outer parts of the gear train. This shamozzle powers both tables and the knee...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/09076ca3.jpg
This is the geartrain on top of the X table that powers the feedscrew for the Y table movement...very ingenious actually...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/29d064a5.jpg
THIS is the bloody thing I've been fighting with for two days...
Look up...waaay up. In this little pocket right up at the back top corner is the two bevel gears that drive the knee jackscrew, either power or by hand.
The bevel gear right behind the top of the jackscrew is the culprit.
There is a little dog clutch right behind it. Something is siezed up or broken way up in there. It turns easily for about 1/2 a turn then stops dead.
Very tough place to get at.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/b26dd3f4.jpg
Russ

A.K. Boomer
05-21-2006, 12:46 PM
Russ could it be posible that the jackscrew is still engaged into the auto feed mech., or froze in that mode? One thing for sure, you got yerself a career!

torker
05-21-2006, 02:45 PM
AK...Yes it is entirely possible. The actual bevel gear that turns the large bevel gear attached to the jackscrew only turns a half turn or so.
There is a cluster of small gears up in there and I think two may be siezed.
The water that ran down the back of the knee and dovetails probably got into the rear of the shafts as they exit out the back of the knee.
I could easily take that gear out of commission and just use the hand crank for the knee but the cool factor would be way down then.
I'd like to keep the power function as I hear a lot of people wish they had a power knee.
Russ

IOWOLF
05-21-2006, 06:46 PM
I saw a old tractor transmission once that water had gotten into it then frozen thawed and froze again,and again for quite a few years.
Well we split the tranny pulled the axels and what we found was a shame,Ice is very destructive out of 12 normal gears 3 were ok the rest were crushed,broke, and Pulverised,Thats what I call a 7 or8" gear in at least 16 pieces even bent a shift fork.It was unbelievable the old guy that I was helping explained what happened,Oh and the case was not cracked at all.:eek:

torker
05-22-2006, 01:13 PM
Just a brief update for you guys who secretly want to restore a rusted treasure that you will buy from hoffman!
I've tried everything I can think of to loosen the two gears up inside the knee with zero success.
I think I've partly sheared off a key in the one shaft that is REALLY siezed.
So...the whole thing is coming apart. I didn't want to do this right away but it had to be done anyway.
Have to take the spindle out so I can lift the knee completely off and get in behind it to knock out the siezed shafts.
The good news...I have the spindle part way out. Can see the bearing surface for the front of the spindle. It looks like it came out of the factory except for one small rust stain..not even a pit.
The spindle rides in a nice wide bronze bushing that is very easy to replace if it ever needed it. Yippee!
Having to use a puller to tug the spindle out.
Had to wedge the back part of the spindle up so nothing gets chewed up on the way out.
I've just chickened out for now.
The bull gear, dogs and shifter slide probably weigh 50 or 60 pounds and I have no way to hold them when the spindle pulls all the way out.
Have to round up some help for this...damm...I hate having help but...
The arbors I have seem to fit pretty snug...that's good!
Also...finally cleaned off the spindle speed tag.
Thing goes from 16 rpm to 384 rpm. Has 16 total spindle speeds.
Haven't cleaned off the feed speed tags yet but it has a whack of feed speeds also.
Russ (still covered in Kroil)

GRH
05-22-2006, 01:30 PM
Torker
I used to live on a farm and when we did not have parts or owners manual and I was taking a piece of equipment apart we photographed the heck out of it labled parts made sketches etc, because days or a couple of weeks later putting it back together can be a MUCH bigger problem.

Regards Graeme

torker
05-22-2006, 06:19 PM
Graeme...Im doing this also...thanks gawd for digital cameras :D
Waited for the missus to come home from work.
We got the spindle out like nothing. It looks great and so do the bushings. Even the rear bushing is heavy duty. It has about 5" of bearing surface length and is in really good shape.
Here comes the knee...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/1e03c474.jpg
Crap...I'm 4" short of lift.
Look at this mess! Believe it or not there is two shafts buried in the rust. No wonder they wouldn't move.
A bonus...the majority of the rust that was holding the knee is right in the middle towards the bottom...very little on the dovetails with the exception of the edge of the gib.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/672c986f.jpg
Had to cheat to get it the rest of the way up. Shove boards in the web to take up slack, take the hook and chain off and use the shortest cleavises I could find...here is the beast...freed at last.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/3cbbcc53.jpg
Still, with all this, the only thing I can find wrong is the original chipped bevel gear for the knee powerfeed. I'm sure I'll find something ugly in the rusted gear cluster. One of the shafts is a tricky bit and this is were the trouble is originating from.
We'll see!
Russ

torker
05-22-2006, 07:08 PM
There, the shafts are loose. Now comes the ugly part...going way up inside the knee. Grease up to the elbows, trying to uncouple the dog clutch for the knee and back out front to undo the dog clutch for the X feed.
Man is this thing ugly to work on now that it's on the floor.
Too bulky and heavy to get onto a bench. Oh well, I'll have to relearn how to stand on my head again :D
Geez...the long weekend just vapourized. Was going to go 4 wheelin...Ooops!
Russ (soon to be blacker that Toby's....) :D

TECHSHOP
05-22-2006, 09:37 PM
I think your lathe is beginning to feel a bit of jealousy seeing you fondle that mill for three days and nights.

torker
05-23-2006, 08:07 PM
I think your lathe is beginning to feel a bit of jealousy seeing you fondle that mill for three days and nights.
You're right...it's pretty mad at me :D
Huge thunder storm yesterday. Knocked out the internet for near a day.
Here's the nasty little gear I have to repair.
Have the rest nearly ready for reassembly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/dce9e1f6.jpg

wierdscience
05-23-2006, 08:52 PM
Hey Russ,that looks about like the crap I find,busted gear teeth,stipped splines the works,good thing we both know how to weld huh?:D

Go ahead and fix it,if you put the thing back together without making the knee feed work,chances are you'll be pulling it down again later.

What kind of bears does it have,bronze sleeves?

torker
05-24-2006, 08:29 AM
Darin, yes it has bronze bushings for the knee drive pinion etc.
The axle that this gear is pinned to froze up from the rust. Then people started cranking on the wheel to get the knee to move and bust the gear.
Almost have to have this gear as it "balances" the drive.
With only the hand crank gear in place the jackscrew bevel gear wants to rock which would lead to other problems.
Tricky little gear to reproduce without a shaper huh?

torker
05-30-2006, 01:22 PM
Got it done..finally! Milled holes in the gear and the repair piece. Popped in a hi-tek piece of 1/8" 7018 welding rod for a pin, then brazed the new tooth on and shaped it with files.
Took a long time...I should have profiled the repair piece a lot more before brazing it on.
Before
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/dce9e1f6.jpg
After
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/b6f32d0b.jpg
Now I have to remove the mashed over setscrew that's jambed into the hole in the gear. The setscrew is completely mushroomed on the inside and is a buggered slot type screw that we all love to hate.
Russ

charlie coghill
05-30-2006, 09:12 PM
Torker; Nice job on the gear.

torker
05-31-2006, 01:05 AM
Thanks Charlie! Whew, what an evening. Got the buggered setscrew removed and replaced. Had to true up the inside of the gear so it'd fit on the shaft.
Got ALL the rust removed from the dovetails that the knee rides on. Really lucked out there. The dovetails had so much old grease on them that they survived the rust very well. Only the center of the column got rusted and not that bad. Used acid and neutralized it with baking soda.
Found a broken setscrew boss for the one of the counter shafts way up under the knee.
The side was busted right out so I had to drill and tap a new hole way up in there (about 15").
Had to make drill and tap extensions....worked well.
Then I got the last remaining shaft unsiezed, now all the drivetrain fir the X, Y and knee all work.
Still a few hours of cleaning ugly old grease then the works is going back together.
I'm not crazy about the one adjustment screw at the bottom of the gib so I'll be picking you guys brains for ideas what to do to improve this setup.
Russ

Evan
06-01-2006, 12:58 PM
This post is to work around the date stamp problem and will throw the post off the top of the list.

torker
06-06-2006, 01:52 AM
A brief update.
Finally got an arbor cleaned up...not perfect.
A couple of problems.
The arbor doesn't line up with the bushing for the overarm support. It's out about 1/8". I'm hoping the bushing is an eccentric cam type setup but didn't have the energy to screw with it too much.
The bushing is held in with a threaded nut.
Next...the arbor has .005 runnout... front and back. The keys that fit into the spindle have a bit of rust on them yet and I haven't fully checked out the taper..it could have a ding I missed.
I'm thinking this is a shop made arbor.
The draw bar hole has been tapped in cockeyed. The drawbar is cocked over by nearly 1" in 20". This also could contribute to the .005 runnout.
The arbor doesn't seem bent as it did run true at three check points.
Next...still trying to figure the oiling system
I did find a big old ugly sump in the very bottom under the box that holds the change gears.
It is GROSS! It's half full of really really old stinky rotten oil and bugs :D
The hole that I though fed the middle sump doesn't.
It's a hole for a drain. There is a pipe threaded into it from the bottom with a tap on it.
To drain the top sump you open the tap and drain it into the bottom sump.
I don't see any evidence of a pump.
There are no return oil lines or any place to put them or anything.
This doesn't mean there never was a pump but it sure doesn't look it to me.
I still can't see how the table feed gears are oiled. I'm thinking they are splash fed from the main gears through a small opening but if they are then all the oil would be flung all over the top of the wooden storage box for the change gears. It doesn't look like this is the case. There is some oil on the wood but not that much.
The handles, gear change levers etc. are all badly rusted on and I'm still waiting for the Kroil to loosen them. This all has to be done before I can remove the case cover for the table feed gear box.
I have tto take pics of the mess around the big drive pulley.
There might be a clutch on this machine.
I got the cover the other day and it has a linkage to activate the clutch or brake or whatever the rusted mess is.
There is a brake shoe type band on the drive spindle...I don't know if it's a clutch or a brake. Everything is rusted solid and I can't get it loose yet.
Sorry for no pics but I just didn't have the ambition tonight.
Need some help for sure with this brake/ clutch thing so maybe tomorrow.
Russ
PS...the spindle runnout could also be because I don't have the spindle adjusted right yet. It just dawned on me that it could be loose enough to be causing a problem.

Willy
06-06-2006, 03:32 AM
Russ unfortunately I haven't been able to follow the entire Ohio #2 saga but I do know that you've been looking for info on your new baby and like you said it's next to non existant.So I don't know if this is relevent or not but I bumped into a thread about old machines on the "other site" tonight and thought I'd share it with you, it might be the little bread crumb that leads to some useful information.Can hardly wait to see all the milled "billet" aluminum on the Hairy Kanary.:D Best of luck with your project.It's a good thing we can't all come over and help we'd probably get in each others way.;)

linkage:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001519;p=0 Bottom of the page.

torker
06-06-2006, 09:11 AM
Willy...I get the feeling that you aren't very far away from me! Locals are about the only ones who spell the name of my ol' hotrod correctly.
Hmmm....this could be bad. You wouldn't have ummmm...a big ol' shed that needs a huge old turning lathe project would you? I know of one for about $500, he'll load it and I know a guy who can haul the little 6 or 7000 pound beauty.
The lathe is just about perfect for a serious project....it's been sitting out in the rain and snow for 5 years. You'd love it....buy Kroil!
Thanks for the link. Now it seems the Oesterlein Company is older than I thought.
Their factory building is a historical site now (a dress/clothing mfg was in it later)and was built in the mid 1920's. Perhaps they where in a different place before that.
Russ

Willy
06-06-2006, 12:40 PM
Thank you very much for the offer Russ it's very tempting,but I couldn't do it justice right now I'm backlogged for at least a couple of years right now with overdue projects,nevermind the ever growing honeydew list.
I'm really not that far up the road from you,in Lumby,east of Vernon.I remember seeing the Hairy Kanary on the highway on one of my road trips about 4 or 5 years ago can't remember exactly where.Wished I could have seen it run.Bumped into the video of it shortly after seeing it...http://www.whiteknight.ca/READERS%20RIDES%202002.htm still got it on the shop dvd player, every once in awhile I'll crank up the speakers and let it run,it's a good way to wake up the neighbours at 6:00 am on a Sunday morning!

torker
06-06-2006, 07:29 PM
Willy...I've been to Lumby actually. Nice little place.
You may have met me on the road to Nakusp perhaps. I used to race out there for quite a few years.
Ha...the White Knight site...good video but they spelled the name wrong also...lol!
Shoot me your email and I'll send you a couple of better ones.
Ya...too bad about the old lathe. I'd drag it home but I have absolutely run out of room also (9 vehicle "projects" will do that)
Russ

David Brown
07-21-2006, 12:20 AM
Earlypearl on eBay has listed a manual for the 1925 version of the Ohio horizontal mill.
David Brown 7-20-06

torker
01-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Hey all you "old iron" gurus...I have a question???? The pic shows the main spindle. Right in front of the big bull gear there is a split ring. It is positioned then tightened down with two socket head bolts. There is a plate on the side cover that is supposed to be removed to adjust the spindle tension with this split ring. There is also a huge nut on the back of the spindle that does the same thing (tension the spindle).
Does anyone know how you are supposed to adjust this split ring to the proper tension?
Thanks!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/ff12d063.jpg
Russ

torker
01-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Geez! Nobody here ever done this? Just wondering now ....how old is this mill....really! Are all the guys who know how to do this pushing daisies now :D
Russ

torker
01-16-2007, 10:29 PM
OK...then I'll give you an updated pic!
New belt is waiting down at the bus station.....need some wire, some gear box lube and it's about ready to fire..NO...I'm not finished painting it yet!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00002-9.jpg
Russ

hornluv
01-16-2007, 11:30 PM
Hey Russ,

It's looking good. I'm thinking nobody is responding though because they don't realize it is an old post and they get tired of reading before the third page. I remembered the post and checked the date. Try putting your question, the answer to which I know not, in a new post.

Stuart

torker
01-16-2007, 11:35 PM
Stuart...geez...good idea! Should have thought of that!
Russ