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View Full Version : "Must haves" for a horizontal mill????



torker
05-24-2006, 07:17 PM
OK all you horizontal mill owners/users...what all should I buy for this old mill?
It has a 50 spindle and a 1" dia arbor. 3 hp (3 ph) and lots of low gearing.
I was wondering about the wider helical type cutters(4" wide). They look like they do a good job and even new are not too pricey.
I'd assume a decent right angle plate would be a given.
I have all the R-8 tooling for my other mill so I'm thinking of an R-8 adapter for small endmill holding etc.
I just want to avoid buying things I may not use.
Thanks!
Russ

Joel
05-24-2006, 07:51 PM
Glad to hear of your progress Russ!

Wide slab cutters are definetly nice to have around. Also get some cutters large enough in diameter that they will clear the bottom of the outer arbor support. You might have to be a little patient as the big cutters are less common in the 1" arbor size. If you get another arbor, go up to 1 1/4". The thinner cutters are cheap and readily available, so I ended up with quite a few in my collection.

I have several end mill holders and use them more than I expected (get at least one large one). Both of the above are readily available on ebay. If your hold down set will not fit the table slots, you might want to add that to the list. I have a dedicated set for the horiz, but cut up some new tee nuts so that I can use my other set also. I got a good deal on a 2 piece vise but have not used it all that much so far.

Mark Hockett
05-24-2006, 08:11 PM
Russ,
I have a 4" face mill that I use often on my horz mill. I set the vise so the jaws are parallel with the spindle and use it to make end cuts. I also have a drill chuck that I use with the vise in the same position to drill into the end of long parts that would be harder to do on the vert mill. The last part I machined on the horz mill was a piece that was .750"x 4"x 18" and needed 4 holes drilled in the end.

More chip less lip

Mark Hockett
Island Tech Enterprises
Clinton, WA
360-914-6026

aboard_epsilon
05-24-2006, 08:29 PM
A coolant pump is Ive heard a must-have on a horizontal.

Loads of slitting saws is what I've bought for mine .......because on my other mill the Bridgeport ........it does not excel with slitting saws ..were as the horizontal does .....and can be used to cut up and reduce large chunks of scrap for other jobs.

All the milling cutters go really cheap on ebay for these machines ....which is what I like about them.
I bought a huge collection of milling cutters over 150 off UK ebay for £50

Look out for the large quantities on ebay ...works out great ...one postage charge for all...


OH OH ........you now need a tool and cutter grinder to sharpen all those new milling cutters ...lol

You probably got all these ....but worth thinking about if you haven't
Oil gun with the right oil in ...for the Zerk's
Dedicated oil can with the right oil in for the places without Zerk's
Buy a huge stone like 12-14 inches diameter inch or so thick (new one )....WHITE ONE....cheap on ebay because no-one has the machine for them..........use it to stone your table...move round in circular pattern..with lots of kero as lube...will get rid of the most of the worse dings.


all the bestr....mark

jkilroy
05-24-2006, 08:30 PM
A 1 1/4 arbor would be first on the list, a much more common size. Slabbing mills are great, really peel off the chips. A decent metal trash can for all of the chips you will make with that slab mill. A nice sized brush to rake them into the above mentioned trash can.

What size are the table slots on the mill? Probably larger than the usual 1/2" stud I am guess. You will want some STOUT workholding parts.

Mcgyver
05-24-2006, 08:46 PM
sounds like you'll pretty much need one of everything. throw in a t+c grinder cuz those big cutters for a horizontal milling machine are expensive!

J Tiers
05-24-2006, 09:36 PM
A 1 1/4 arbor? Maybe....

A 1 1/2 would be fine also, maybe better, since there are a lot of cutters for that size arbor that your mill can deal with just fine. I know where there are a lot of 1 1/2" arbor cutters. I already scarfed all the 1" and 1 1/4" for my little mill.

1" is OK for medium gear cutters.

Slabbing cutter, the very high helix type, absolutely rule.

What you need? Cutters, cutters, cutters.

Arbors.

Large face cutter

A vise.

clamping stuff.

A dividing head and rotary table.

Need I go on?

Nutter
05-24-2006, 10:27 PM
I've got a similarly sized horizontal with a 50 taper spindle, but I don't use it much. Mainly for re-splining D44 front shafts.

I purchased an NMTB50 to R8 adapter for it, I use it with a 3/4" collet for my spline cutter. If you have R8 tooling, it's probably a good idea to get one so you don't double up. I ended up buying a vertical mill with a B&S9 spindle after I bought the R8 adapter, but I found an NMTB50 to B&S9 adapter in the tooling that came with the mill :)

I've got arbors, but not too many cutters. Is there such a thing as 'stackable side cutters', where you can get a pile of them that are 3/8" or 1/2" wide and stack them for wider slots in such a way as the sides of the teeth won't interfere? If there are, I should buy some.

Mine's not a universal and I don't have the change gears for the indexer that you have. If I did, I'd want the indexer to work with those gears and the swiveling table so I would be prepared to cut tricky tapering spirals :)

Seems like a good sized angle plate would be a good idea, but I don't have one.

Beyond that, I think you want pretty much the same stuff you'd use with a vertical mill. Vice. Hold downs. Indexer. Boring head. Drill chuck. Some type of setup to hold a test indicator.

torker
05-25-2006, 12:09 AM
Thanks all!
Quite a few things I never thought of (drill chuck being one)
I already have a R/T with tailstock, several spin indexers, boring head and a lot of the usual stuff for a verticle mill.
I was looking more for the heavier stuff I'd need. Never thought of the hold downs etc. The ones I have aren't heavy enough.
I still have the cutter grinder project in the works. I'll have to make some changes for the horizontzl cutters though.
The big garbage can...lol! Now that one suprised me! Darn good advice though.
Looking forward to picking off some cutters on Ebay. Used to make me drool to see how cheap some went for, or just plain didn't sell.
For sure a 1 1/4" arbor will be first on the list, if a 1 1/2" doesn't come along first.
Thanks again!
Russ

John Stevenson
05-25-2006, 02:31 AM
Mount your vise in a tray like this.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/hidden/milltray.jpg

Not a staged photo but an actual job, the cutter is 3" x 6" wide cutting 2-1/2" square steel into blocks.
1/4" depth of cut per pass.

Coolant drain hole match up with the tee slots for coolant return.
This way it save on mess and cleaning up plus the coolant doesn't run off the vise handle and fill your boots up.

Like the others say, on 50 INT taper go for a 1-1/4" arbor as you then have a choice of tooling.
A lot of special cutters have 7/8" or 3/4" bores but to save having loads of arbors I use a 40INT [ in my case ] collet chuck and fit a plain shaft into it for special arbors, a one size fits all.

NEVER run the drive key in thin slitting saws, if it jams it will spin the cutter, not recomended but with a key fitted it will shatter it.

.

Millman
05-25-2006, 02:50 AM
The larger saws can be key driven and can remove lots of metal... as long as the speed and feed are correct. However those cannot be determined without inspection of the rigidity of a particular machine. Just hate it when people say, It can't be done.

kap pullen
05-25-2006, 06:26 AM
There's no way an endmill can compete with a side cutter on keyways and slots.

I made a killing on a keyway job once with one shaft clamped in each

slot and a couple of 1/2" side cutters spaced on the arbor.

A side cutter will cut all day, with coolant, on size provided feeds and speeds are correct.

A six inch carbide insert face mill is a must.

I would get a range of Devlieg type heavy duty boring bars.

Also need some type of drilling equipment, spade drills may be

obselete but very economical.

A faceplate/4jaw chuck for the spindle will make your mill into

a large capacity lathe for plate work.

Horizontal mills go for $250-$350 at auction around me.

They can't hardly give them away.

Shops are all cnc crazy!

Kap

J Tiers
05-25-2006, 08:08 AM
Yah....

J.S.' picture is the reason for slabbing cutters. That is a high helix cutter, no "banging" when it starts the cut, as with narrow cutters that are stright tooth or slight angles. Munches right along and causes no trouble.

And the chips, they are long spirals of metal, actually far easier to clean up than the little chips from narrow straight cutters.

recoilless
05-25-2006, 09:59 AM
Sir John, is that THE Victoria horizontal? A fellow in town here has one sitting in his barn awaiting a new owner, too big for my shop. Also, do you have the dividing head that goes with the mill...I recently traded a Victoria DH away.

torker
05-28-2006, 06:46 PM
I believe I've seen a pic of Johns setup before. Sold me on helical cutters and horizontal mills.(Bring on that garbage can :D)
I found out something good last night...I took another spacer off the long arbor I have and found out it is indeed a 1 1/4" arbor.
Sorta sucks in a way because all my gear cutters are 1" but a 1" arbor is a lot cheaper to buy than a 1 1/4".
John, thanks for the tips about the saws and the keys.
Russ (mired down, cleaning greasy rusted parts :D)

aboard_epsilon
05-28-2006, 07:10 PM
yep get yourself a one inch arbour .because cutters are more plentiful for these ..
weather a 50 taper one inch arbour exsists... is another matter though ..

all the Best.mark

torker
05-28-2006, 07:29 PM
yep get yourself a one inch arbour .because cutters are more plentiful for these ..
weather a 50 taper one inch arbour exsists... is another matter though ..

all the Best.mark
Yes there are 1" arbors(even 7/8")...KBC, about $200 Cnd.

aboard_epsilon
05-28-2006, 07:58 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Drill-Chuck-Arbor-50INT-JT6_W0QQitemZ7620353509QQcategoryZ42296QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

bit of precision machining on a 1 inch diameter bar .......a bit of welding ....and you got yourself a one inch arbour ..
all the best....mark

torker
05-29-2006, 12:55 AM
Mark...cool idea!
I actually have some kind of strange arbor that also came with this. Once I get it cleaned up I'll post a pic. If it turns out that it isn't that useful I may turn it into another arbor of the 1" variety.
Russ

John Stevenson
05-29-2006, 03:39 AM
Sir John, is that THE Victoria horizontal? A fellow in town here has one sitting in his barn awaiting a new owner, too big for my shop. Also, do you have the dividing head that goes with the mill...I recently traded a Victoria DH away.
Yes this is a U2 model, they did 6 models all told U0, U1, U2, H0, H1 and H2.
The U stands for universal and the H stands for Horizontal, the U has the swivel table, numbers are for sizes.
These are very deceptive machines and have a very long bed travel for the bed size.

A while ago I was looking at getting a bigger mill with more bed travel but I would have had to move up two sizes as the next size bed didn't have the travel mine had.
As room was a problem I stayed with this one.

I have three large dividing heads and I'm not sure if one is a Victoria or an Elliot, most of these tables are so close in design that they will work on any machine.
The one I use the most is a Hoffman that has a stepper motor fitted, this can either plug into the CNC system on the CNC mill or act as a stand along on the Bridgy or Victoria by using Tony Jeffree's Division Master

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/hidden/4th%20axis2.jpg


.

Evan
06-01-2006, 12:09 PM
This post is to work around the date stamp problem and will throw the post off the top of the list.